Tenacity is underrated

[MMDE]

5 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Its not about the difficulty of the game its about the difficulty of the Platinum.

 

do you truely believe that, without a guide, you would rate DS a 2/10?

 

i think that's ridiculous. Figuring out how to get every ring? Fighting the final boss? Even working out that the lizards are finite and which npcs are where? 

 

I dont think so. 

 

A 2/10 puts it one rung above the likes of Mayo and Hannah Montana and MrMassagy. That is simply not the case

 

But the game came with a guide... I don't see how a guide makes the games less difficult. Yes, it explains to you how to do stuff in the game, but the difficulty of what you gotta do remains the same.

Edited July 28, 2017 by MMDE

[DrBloodmoney]

2 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

But the game came with a guide... I don't see how a guide makes the games less difficult. Yes, it explains to you how to do stuff in the game, but the difficulty of what you gotta do remains the same.

 

Okay, buddy, okay. I get you.

 

Demons Souls is only 10% harder than 1000 Top Rated.

 

I stand corrected. Well done. 

 

 

 

On a totally unrelated note - i'm looking to buy some good quality crack to smoke, I assume you can direct me to where I can get the good stuff?

[MMDE]

3 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Okay, buddy, okay. I get you.

 

Demons Souls is only 10% harder than 1000 Top Rated.

 

I stand corrected. Well done. 

 

 

 

On a totally unrelated note - i'm looking to buy some good quality crack to smoke, I assume you can direct me to where I can get the good stuff?

 

But I said I thought it should be rated like 4-5/10. I think you missed that. ;p 

[DrBloodmoney]

17 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

But I said I thought it should be rated like 4-5/10. I think you missed that. ;p 

 

I think you missed my point.

 

My point was that the statement that a game you have completed 3 times already is "like a 2/10 for me" is spurious and idiotic, as virtually any game that any person has already finished that many times will be low.

Stating that fact like it means anything at all is nothing but electronic-dick-swinging, and is only one step away from the insufferable "Git Gud" crowd who plague the Souls community, and are what put a lot of people who have not tried or mastered these games off playing them.

 

I'd like people who are thinking about trying these games (games which are great, and should be tried) to see someone who has platinumed them acknowledge that they will likely struggle.

 

That these games are unusually unforgiving (in the context of modern games.) That compared to your average game, they are esoteric, obtuse and at times frustrating, but that pushing through that difficulty is very rewarding. Also, I'd like them to see that not everyone out there who has finished them is going to spend their time diminishing the challenge that they are experiencing or about to experience.

 

5/10 is, in my opinion, low, but not ridiculous. Stating a 2/10 'for you', or a 2/10 anywhere near an argument about the Souls games difficulty, is a slap in the face to anyone currently having trouble.

 

I'd also point out that, even if you have completed it before, redoing the game will still be a good bit more than 10% harder than My Name is Mayo.

Edited July 28, 2017 by DrBloodmoney

[TooruPT]

Well, to be fair it's not shocking to rate Demon's as a 5 at best, considering the dupe glitch was never fixed so you can pretty much jump to level one bazillion as soon as you beat Phalanx and most of the bosses are also glitched/have strategies that make them as hard as ticking them off a checklist.

[MMDE]

19 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I think you missed my point.

 

My point was that the statement that a game you have completed 3 times already is "like a 2/10 for me" is spurious and idiotic, as virtually any game that any person has already finished that many times will be low.

Stating that fact like it means anything at all is nothing but electronic-dick-swinging, and is only one step away from the insufferable "Git Gud" crowd who plague the Souls community, and are what put a lot of people who have not tried or mastered these games off playing them.

 

I'd like people who are thinking about trying these games (games which are great, and should be tried) to see someone who has platinumed them acknowledge that they will likely struggle.

 

That these games are unusually unforgiving (in the context of modern games.) That compared to your average game, they are esoteric, obtuse and at times frustrating, but that pushing through that difficulty is very rewarding. Also, I'd like them to see that not everyone out there who has finished them is going to spend their time diminishing the challenge that they are experiencing or about to experience.

 

5/10 is, in my opinion, low, but not ridiculous. Stating a 2/10 'for you', or a 2/10 anywhere near an argument about the Souls games difficulty, is a slap in the face to anyone currently having trouble.

 

I'd also point out that, even if you have completed it before, redoing the game will still be a good bit more than 10% harder than My Name is Mayo.

 

I say it's a 2/10 for me, not because I'm super good at the games. I'm not. That's the truth. I just know what to do in the games, which makes it super easy. Yes, there's absolutely no challenge to be had if I don't try to challenge myself. It's not that I'm so good that it's easy now. It's just that I know how to make what some people struggle with super easy to do. I've co-oped people through the game many times, and I think the people I'm with can agree when I say that what I do is not difficult. It's just not.

 

Sorry, but running past some enemies is not difficult. Shooting that one annoying enemy from a distance with a bow and a thief ring is not difficult. Just making it so the most annoying enemies simply can't hurt you, even if they did attack you, that's not difficult. etc etc etc

 

So no, it's a statement about how easy the games really are, no matter how much you or someone else struggle with it. It's not that you are supposed to "git gud", it's more that if it's that hard for you, you're probably doing it wrong.

 

The games feel rewarding, but as I said, I would argue they are not hard.

11 minutes ago, TooruPT said:

Well, to be fair it's not shocking to rate Demon's as a 5 at best, considering the dupe glitch was never fixed so you can pretty much jump to level one bazillion as soon as you beat Phalanx and most of the bosses are also glitched/have strategies that make them as hard as ticking them off a checklist.

 

Indeed. 1-1 is the hardest part of the plat. If you can beat that, you should be able to get the plat just fine. Smooth sailing.

 

And I say this as someone who initially did the entire game without glitches and did NG+++. NG+ is not difficult at all either, because from the first playthrough, you should have learned how to avoid taking damage, which is actually rather easy.

 

Duping the best grass makes it piss easy as well, where you can just heal back to full HP whenever you want to. Wear a thief ring to only fight one enemy at a time. Use bow and poison/magic/light arrows, whatever cheap trick you want. When you actually gotta fight something, use a shield + spear (turtle), so you don't take any damage.

 

Even after Demon's Souls, Dark Souls I and Dark Souls II, I still struggled a bit initially with the first part of Bloodborne. Nothing too major, but I died around the same amount of times there as in trying to progress in the rest of the game. Hardest part of Bloodborne for me was Rom in the chalice dungeons, and before I figured out how to make this one other chalice dungeon boss super easy. After that was the forest, then first area, but I died more in the first area than in the forest. Died 2 times in the forest.  And it's not because I'm "gud", it's because that area actually had some difficulty, though you can just run through them.

Edited July 28, 2017 by MMDE

[DrBloodmoney]

1 minute ago, MMDE said:

 

I say it's a 2/10 for me, not because I'm super good at the games. I'm not. That's the truth. I just know what to do in the games, which makes it super easy. Yes, there's absolutely no challenge to be had if I don't try to challenge myself. It's not that I'm so good that it's easy now. It's just that I know how to make what some people struggle with super easy to do. I've co-oped people through the game many times, and I think the people I'm with can agree when I say that what I do is not difficult. It's just not.

 

Sorry, but running past some enemies is not difficult. Shooting that one annoying enemy from a distance with a bow and a thief ring is not difficult. Just making it so the most annoying enemies simply can't hurt you, even if they did attack you, that's not difficult. etc etc etc

 

So no, it's a statement about how easy the games really are, no matter how much you or someone else struggle with it. It's not that you are supposed to "git gud", it's more that if it's that hard for you, you're probably doing it wrong.

 

The games feel rewarding, but as I said, I would argue they are not hard.

 

Okay.

 

I still disagree, and remain disappointed that your view - that difficulty ratings should be based on someone using every guide and every exploit and having someone else co-op play the game for them - will be the direction this site goes.

 

oh well.

 

 

 

 

[thegirlruka]

33 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

5/10 is, in my opinion, low, but not ridiculous. Stating a 2/10 'for you', or a 2/10 anywhere near an argument about the Souls games difficulty, is a slap in the face to anyone currently having trouble.

As a different opinion, 5/10 is an average difficulty in my mind; half of all games are easier and half harder. My scale is more exponential than linear though, and if people weigh their numbers differently then obviously a 2/10 or a 5/10 will mean a different thing to each person. For some people a 6/10 means that something is difficult while to me it means that something is slightly above average in difficulty. The following thread shows one of the more... vocal members showing his opinion on numbers.

 

Edited July 28, 2017 by kuuhaku

[NekoSama87]

If i have to choose, i'd rather do one thing 100.000 times than try my luck with RNG elements (as everyone can see from my trophy list, grinding is no problem whatsoever for me)

[TooruPT]

I don't think Soulsborne players will ever reach a consensus as far as individual game difficulty is concerned. Every game has its tweaks and recommended playstyle but the general strategy is the same. It's likely one will always regard their first as the toughest, it'll be the one that'll run you through the training course. Once that's out of the way the games become much more enjoyable but it will also make it difficult to be objectively rate the difficulty.

[itachi-destroyer]

In my opinion tenacity isn't underrated in the sense that grinding for a thousand hours does not make a game harder. I really like JRPG too so I understand that hours and hours of grinding can be a pain but that doesn't require any skill. For example, I'm currently playing Tales Of Symphonia which is a really grindy game (150 hours~) and most of the guides I've seen for it give it a 6 or 7/10 for it's difficulty (when I would only give it a 3/10) and I really don't agree with this considering the fact that the game couldn't be easier than it already is. All you have to do is follow a roadmap to not miss any item/quest and beat the game 3 times minimum with heavy bonuses for the second and third playthrough (x2 exp, or even x10 exp) so I don't see how someone could have any trouble obtaining the Platinum for the game or say that it is a hard game.

If anything, I think that tenacity is overrated considering that most RPG are just time consuming but not hard.

However I think that the difficulty rating system should change/split into something like that :

"pure difficulty ?/10 and patience required ?/10."