Time on American Healthcare

[Sir_Bee]

If anyone is interested, here is a link to a great article on the Health Care system in the US. Be forewarned, it is a very long read, but it is worth it.

http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/

[Bullstomp]

Health Care system in the US.

http://healthland.ti...are-killing-us/

There is one?

[Sir_Bee]

If you read the article, apparently there is a very highly profitable one at the expense of the working class.

[DanielVT]

If you read the article, apparently there is a very highly profitable one at the expense of the working class.

The American Health Care system is said to be the best in the world, yet also a complete disorganized, corrupt mess. I'm literally confused about what to believe. I honestly have never had a bad experience with it, but I never get sick, nor do I have any injuries (thankfully) so I am no expert on the matter lol.

I am prepared to get all sorts of hate and downvotes star-wise, but this element of Obamacare truly concerns me. If you don't believe it, read the bill for yourself and find these passages.

"Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.

Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual's bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.

Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - ACORN).

Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax. (How could anybody in their right mind come up with that?)

Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set all doctors' fees.

Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient's age.

Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.

Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years. (Death counseling..)

Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order."

Guys, I am not totally against socialized healthcare. If it works as well as they say in Canada and Britain, than I'm open to it. However I fear Obamacare is scary because it seems all about control of the people. Does Canada and England's health care system allow the government to get into people's bank accounts??? Or ration healthcare to people older than their mid-seventies? Before you guys attack me, think about this....it is a bit scary to think of the powers the government just gave itself without anyone really knowing.

Edited February 22, 2013 by DanielVT

[Un-cool Uncle Jamm]

Guys, I am not totally against socialized healthcare. If it works as well as they say in Canada and Britain, than I'm open to it. However I fear Obamacare is scary because it seems all about control of the people. Does Canada and England's health care system allow the government to get into people's bank accounts??? Or ration healthcare to people older than their mid-seventies? Before you guys attack me, think about this....it is a bit scary to think of the powers the government just gave itself without anyone really knowing.

Well being a Canadian, the healthcare goes to all, but seeing as your privatized hosptials pay better, half of the people who get trained as doctors or nurses end up working and moving across the border. This causes issues in the fact there are hospital closures and many hospitals without enough beds to deal with the sheer volume of people needing special care. This in turn amplifies waiting times at hospitals and usually only emergency care is taken up first while smaller things like fractured bones have people waiting for hours and hours for any type of treatment.

I've been lucky in the way that I haven't needed to rely on the hospitals aside from one incident where I got a minor concussion from a skiing accident, only had to pay for the ambulance ride while I also had x-rays taken, and also birth I suppose. I have also heard/witnessed stories where doctors or nurses have had malpractice and the hospitals will back up the doctors and remove evidence from the records. (This happened to my grandfather last February when he came in for a urinary tract infection and came out in a body bag. to put it bluntly) Malpractice is definitely a factor as the nurses or doctors asked which old folks home he came from (and was living in a house, and actually drove himself to the hospital) and they apparently gave him some drugs that are specific for dementia.

So there are good and there are bad with this system here... we have intensely long waiting lists for transplants and even regular care, but it's being paid for for us (unless special treatment is needed)

[DanielVT]

Well being a Canadian, the healthcare goes to all, but seeing as your privatized hosptials pay better, half of the people who get trained as doctors or nurses end up working and moving across the border. This causes issues in the fact there are hospital closures and many hospitals without enough beds to deal with the sheer volume of people needing special care. This in turn amplifies waiting times at hospitals and usually only emergency care is taken up first while smaller things like fractured bones have people waiting for hours and hours for any type of treatment.

I've been lucky in the way that I haven't needed to rely on the hospitals aside from one incident where I got a minor concussion from a skiing accident, only had to pay for the ambulance ride while I also had x-rays taken, and also birth I suppose. I have also heard/witnessed stories where doctors or nurses have had malpractice and the hospitals will back up the doctors and remove evidence from the records. (This happened to my grandfather last February when he came in for a urinary tract infection and came out in a body bag. to put it bluntly) Malpractice is definitely a factor as the nurses or doctors asked which old folks home he came from (and was living in a house, and actually drove himself to the hospital) and they apparently gave him some drugs that are specific for dementia.

So there are good and there are bad with this system here... we have intensely long waiting lists for transplants and even regular care, but it's being paid for for us (unless special treatment is needed)

That does not sound too bad at all. Obviously nothing run by the government is perfect, but it sounds acceptable. I would not be so vehemenously against government-run healthcare in America were it not for the HIGHLY troublesome pieces of shit stuffed into the bill as I quoted above. I wish the bill really was about trying to cover the uninsured and keeping costs down rather than the government getting completely unrelated powers. The gov. should not have the right to ration care depending on your age, nor the ability to have free-will to your bank account. I thought it was government for the people and by the people, not the government vs. the people. Thanks for your rational and intelligent post.

[Dr_Mayus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_QOTHFpFLI

[DanielVT]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_QOTHFpFLI[/media]

That was funny, thanks for the share.

[Bullstomp]

If you read the article, apparently there is a very highly profitable one at the expense of the working class.

I read the article. I think that medical care in the US is overpriced crap. Many doctors are quick to prescribe medication, get you out of their office and blindisde you with a large bill.

The American Health Care system is said to be the best in the world

I've not heard that, is this personal opinion or quoted fact? I love the US and am a war vet, but the US isn't even in the top 36 in terms of healthcare; hence my first post in the thread. Don't believe me? Check this out -

http://www.businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6

Costa Rica is ranked higher than the US. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[DanielVT]

I read the article. I think that medical care in the US is overpriced crap. Many doctors are quick to prescribe medication, get you out of their office and blindisde you with a large bill.

I've not heard that, is this personal opinion or quoted fact? I love the US and am a war vet, but the US isn't even in the top 36 in terms of healthcare; hence my first post in the thread. Don't believe me? Check this out -

http://www.businessi...he-world-2012-6

Costa Rica is ranked higher than the US. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Wow...I had no idea. No, I literally heard that...it's not from my opinion. I guess we did need reforms......hopefully the government handles it well and stays out of our lives, and does not limit who can and cannot get healthcare.....hopefully................................

[Sir_Bee]

Quite simply, every country has a different idea of what to use their tax money on. Britain and Canada use it on Healthcare, the US uses it on other things, like roads and defense. Comparitively, our price of healthcare are high and the taxes on products like cigarettes and gasoline low. Take which system you like best.

Not really an opinion, more of a summary.

I think you missed the entire point of the article. It is not that the actual service is expensive to the hospital, it is the crazy markup that they put on the service. The profit margins are insane and the people who lose out are the ones who happen to get sick. There is no reason that presidents of not for profit hospitals should make 1.6 million+. There is no reason that not for profit hospitals should have markups of 150% and more on their services. Healthcare is not overly expensive, it has just become corrupt as there is a monopoly on it. Doctors know that when someone is sick and dying, they don't really have the time or the ability to shop around for a good price. They will pay what it takes, and the hospitals extort that money from people.

2 big points I pulled from the article. In the rest of the world, as tech advances prices go down. In the hospital, the opposite is true. The second point is that about 60% of personal bankruptcy cases come from medical bills. As a society, why is it ok to further ruin peoples and families lives because they got sick, you may as well take them out behind the shed and shoot them, it would save a lot of grief and money ... Why is human life valued so low, and it considered alright?

The American Health Care system is said to be the best in the world, yet also a complete disorganized, corrupt mess. I'm literally confused about what to believe. I honestly have never had a bad experience with it, but I never get sick, nor do I have any injuries (thankfully) so I am no expert on the matter lol.

I am prepared to get all sorts of hate and downvotes star-wise, but this element of Obamacare truly concerns me. If you don't believe it, read the bill for yourself and find these passages.

"Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.

Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual's bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.

Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - ACORN).

Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax. (How could anybody in their right mind come up with that?)

Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set all doctors' fees.

Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient's age.

Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.

Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years. (Death counseling..)

Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order."

I have also never heard that America has the best healthcare in the world, but that is besides the point.

Of those things you listed, many of them aren't bad things, and given no context or reason, the bad things seem much worse then they are (likely, I understand that they may actually be bad things). I am making no claim to say that Obamacare is perfect, of course it has its flaws and shortcomings, but it is a step in the right direction (again, I get that this is an opinion). My idea of a society that works in the future, is one that is willing to take care of its people, not one that puts people out on the street for being old or sick. People like to hold themselves above the animal kingdom, like we are more evolved and better off then the rest of the animals, and yet there are remarkable similarities in how we treat our fellow people.

Also, the stopping of expanding hospitals is actually a great thing. In the states there are already more hospital beds then there are patients to fill them. By expanding you are using space that could be put to better use.

[DanielVT]

While I don't agree with everything you said. I respect your opinion and can certainly see validity to several things you stated. I do believe that humans are above all animals because unlike animals we have souls (that's my opinion). However I just did and energy efficiancy audit in the absolute grossest pigsty of  a house I have EVER seen. Words cannot describe how horrid it was. People like that are worse than animals! lol

I think you missed the entire point of the article. It is not that the actual service is expensive to the hospital, it is the crazy markup that they put on the service. The profit margins are insane and the people who lose out are the ones who happen to get sick. There is no reason that presidents of not for profit hospitals should make 1.6 million+. There is no reason that not for profit hospitals should have markups of 150% and more on their services. Healthcare is not overly expensive, it has just become corrupt as there is a monopoly on it. Doctors know that when someone is sick and dying, they don't really have the time or the ability to shop around for a good price. They will pay what it takes, and the hospitals extort that money from people.

2 big points I pulled from the article. In the rest of the world, as tech advances prices go down. In the hospital, the opposite is true. The second point is that about 60% of personal bankruptcy cases come from medical bills. As a society, why is it ok to further ruin peoples and families lives because they got sick, you may as well take them out behind the shed and shoot them, it would save a lot of grief and money ... Why is human life valued so low, and it considered alright?

I have also never heard that America has the best healthcare in the world, but that is besides the point.

Of those things you listed, many of them aren't bad things, and given no context or reason, the bad things seem much worse then they are (likely, I understand that they may actually be bad things). I am making no claim to say that Obamacare is perfect, of course it has its flaws and shortcomings, but it is a step in the right direction (again, I get that this is an opinion). My idea of a society that works in the future, is one that is willing to take care of its people, not one that puts people out on the street for being old or sick. People like to hold themselves above the animal kingdom, like we are more evolved and better off then the rest of the animals, and yet there are remarkable similarities in how we treat our fellow people.

Also, the stopping of expanding hospitals is actually a great thing. In the states there are already more hospital beds then there are patients to fill them. By expanding you are using space that could be put to better use.