"Hard" mode in games

[GarryKE]

I was having some thoughts earlier when I was replaying DA:I on nightmare for the hell of it and I arrived at the same issues I had with the game before. The problem is bigger than just this one game though. They all do it.

A game should be challenging and for the most part hard modes do accomplish this. But the execution of hard mode is the trouble. Increasing AI HP as well as attack doesn't necessarily make the game any harder. All it does is make it more of a pain in the backside.

Then I look at MMOs. A lot of games, especially RPGs are beginning to take after MMOs nowadays with their kill 'n' collect quests, leveling and talent systems etc. But the boss fights are always the prevailing difference. Look at WOW for example.

I haven't played WOW properly since the end of Mists but even then, the last time I was raiding was in Dragon Soul at the end of Cataclysm. The boss fights in that raid were a real big challenge for us on heroic mode but we could easily stomp the whole thing in one run, some of us even managing to solo do things like myself solo healing Ultraxion. That's the point in progression. This was always because not only did bosses have higher HP and damage but also new abilities and required a team to learn a more complex set of strategies for overcoming them, as well as getting the timing right on each thing such as listening out for audible cues or watching for visual ones.

And then there's games like DA:I. Sure, on nightmare it's a toughy at first. But the difficulty doesn't change much else. I'm rather thankful they didn't go this route with the game actually because the friendly AI and tactics sucked, but still...

And that's my curiosity. Shouldn't games start looking more at this approach now when it comes to difficulty? Actually making it "harder"? It would accomplish many things, one of them being players having that "whole new game" feeling once they've squeezed their ways to victory.

Just imagine, if you've played DA:I, the last boss having more than just one AOE and five times the health. And imagine how difficult it would have been having to make sure even you didn't die let alone the friendly AI you've had to babysit through the entire nightmare playthrough. And then, during phases 2 and 3, finding that you don't kill the boss just yet like you did on easy because this time there are two more phases that will be even harder.

Can we say they just can't be bothered to do it?

And that's my Monday morning musings.

TLDR: Sit down with a cup of tea/coffee and come back to it.

Edited June 13, 2016 by GarryKE

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

I still think the best implementation of difficulty is something like Starwing (Star Fox) on the SNES - giving you actually different levels depending on what route (difficulty) you take, only the first and last levels even being in the same star system. And then there's the end boss, which got way worse on the hardest difficulty...

 

I often don't even bother with the hard difficulties these days. A game like Batman: Arkham Asylum makes me want to show off and play on hard and for a game like Tomb Raider Anniversary it doesn't even matter, but most games I just play on normal because hard only causes some extra grievance, not an actually better experience for tougher gamers. If I want tough, I'll just go for games that are naturally tough, like Super Meat Boy.

[MMDE]

There are games that do change up stuff in "hard mode".

 

I think Dark Souls II did NG+ really well.

[Oobedoob S Benubi]

There are games that do change up stuff in "hard mode".

 

I think Dark Souls II did NG+ really well.

 

I can't even do Dark Souls in normal mode...

 

I really like the idea of Dark Souls but unlike Super Meat Boy, where death means instantly try again, in Dark Souls a death is a mayor setback for someone like me because in such a large world if I get reset, I try to rush things and that's not a good way to play Dark Souls.

[LittleLamb121]

There are games that do change up stuff in "hard mode".

 

I think Dark Souls II did NG+ really well.

That game was my first thought. Man, was that a brutal NG+.

To answer the main question: that is the very reason why I usually play games on Normal difficulty. Making enemies cheaply difficult just isn't fun. Of course, there are always exceptions that do it right. But they are far and few in between.

[Hemiak]

The worst is when enemies get perfect accuracy on the hardest difficulty. And it's not a difficulty related thing, but when every enemy knows exactly where you are once combat starts, even if you've gotten into cover and moved from your initial position, that's ass.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Hemiak

[GarryKE]

I often don't even bother with the hard difficulties these days. A game like Batman: Arkham Asylum makes me want to show off and play on hard and for a game like Tomb Raider Anniversary it doesn't even matter, but most games I just play on normal because hard only causes some extra grievance, not an actually better experience for tougher gamers. If I want tough, I'll just go for games that are naturally tough, like Super Meat Boy.

That's why I'm bringing it up. If developers produced a game with increasing challenges and made it harder for those that wanted it, would they not have made a better game? The mechanics to do sp are there. Negligence - or refusal - to do so is somewhat sloppy and makes me wonder if it really is just a way to suck the money out of our wallets. Which is a disappointment.

The worst is when enemies get perfect accuracy on the hardest difficulty. And it'd jot a difficulty related thing, but when every enemy knows exactly where you are once combat starts ...

I completely agree. I've gotten used to that from C&C but it was simpler with RA3's brutal AI. They took it to a whole new level of dickism with Tiberium Wars. Though when it comes to strategies I'm not sure how they would make it harder as it's all AI personalities (aggressive, defensive, etc) whereas with RPGs there are MMO raid/dungeon mechanics - which do exists just not to the right level.

I think Dark Souls II did NG+ really well.

I've never played a Dark Souls game but I'll keep that in mind. At least some bother though Edited June 14, 2016 by GarryKE

[bladesoframen]

I think the worse implementation of Hard diff I've seen still belongs to Omega Quintet. Not only do they do they do the typical doubling health and stats, the bosses (and even some normal enemies) become 10x more likely to suddenly interrupt turn order and get 3 extra turns when your party is already in dire straits. No amount of skill can save you in a turn based game because you can't react. The only thing you can do is try your best to avoid the triggers that cause the boss to instantly slaughter your team.

[GarryKE]

I think the worse implementation of Hard diff I've seen still belongs to Omega Quintet. Not only do they do they do the typical doubling health and stats, the bosses (and even some normal enemies) become 10x more likely to suddenly interrupt turn order and get 3 extra turns when your party is already in dire straits. No amount of skill can save you in a turn based game because you can't react. The only thing you can do is try your best to avoid the triggers that cause the boss to instantly slaughter your team.

That sounds harsh. I think the closest thing to hard I've come across was Yunalesca on FF10. She's easy now but when you're not expecting it for the first time she's a real pain in the butt. But that's not a difficulty mode...

[Ringwraith10]

Yeah, many times it seems as though "hard" actually means "tediously grindy and taking up time you could be spending playing other games". Whew.