What do you consider cheating in videogames?

[d3m0nd00d]

Here is a nice video for you to watch to ponder the OP question a little differently.

 

 

 

[Doom]

Anything that doesn't require external programs to either hack a save, or manually unlock trophies with external utilities is fine in my book.

It's not my problem if a developer overlook things.

And where would you actually draw the line otherwise?

• If a trophy asks you to do a speedrun of a level, and you manage to skip a whole section because of a clipping issue (intentionally or casually), are you cheating?
• If you need to reach max level in a multiplayer game, and instead of bothering with "normal" matches you boost it in private matches with a friend taking turn in killing eachothers, are you cheating? (You are still playing exactly by the rules programmed within the game).
• If a game is programmed (intentionally) to unlock a secret menu called "cheats" once you finish the game, and in said menu there are toggles to activate "unlimited ammo" and things like that, if you activate them, are you cheating?
• If a bug makes you invulnerable in a fps and you continue playing, are you cheating?
• In the old quake games a rocket fired at your feet while jumping would make you jump higher (and hurt you). That was called "rocket-jump" and was used by many skilled players to do speedruns or take shortcuts in multiplayer maps. Is that considered cheating too?

How can you arbitrary decide if any of these actions (all of them allowed by the game itself without any use of external software) can be considered cheating?

If any of it was against the developer vision of their game, they would surely have fixed them. On the contrary if they don't fix them even when aware of them we can assume they don't care and/or don't consider them cheating.
And with that, who are you to make that assumption in their stead?

Edited April 15, 2014 by DocDoomII

[javahouse]

In my opinion, there are 2 kinds of cheating.

In-game cheating (exploits, glitchs ect..) and out-game cheating (hacking).

 

I disapprove of hacking.

 

In-game cheating however is kind of a grey area for me (doesn't necessarily mean I would do it).

It comes down to the game, what kind of exploit/glitch it is and when it's used.

 

 

Demon's Souls' item duplicating provides good examples of both sides.

 

An ok example:

Duplicating souls when you already finished at least one playthrough and just want to try some builds, as it just works as a time saver.

 

A bad example:

Starting the game and immediatly starting to dupe items so you are overpowered and just destroy every enemy, as it makes all aspects of the game meaningless.

 

Of course, that's my own opinion and everyone is free to do whatever they want to do.

[DEMON]

In a way yes.  In Dragon's Age 2, there was a bug with NPCs where you could talk to them just as putting your sword away.. something like that, you could just spam the talk button to keep leveling up.. it took all the difficulty and hard work away from that game.  But the thing is, this was coded into the game to be like this.  I'm sure they have fixed it now but it was there without having to hack or mod anything.  And this kind of cheating is technically alright because of that.  Have I ever considered using outside sources like hacks or mods? Mods only if they only affect the appearance and nothing else.. only on PC.  Hacks, never.

 

Usually I avoid using bugs or exploits even.. but if the game is terrible enough and I just want it to be done with and there's a bug/exploit available to make it go past quicker, I would use them then.

[Vergilex]

This kind of discussion just made me think about something: Where must we actually draw the line, in regards to cheating? Personally, I don't mind anything which doesn't give an unfair advantage to a player in a multiplayer game. So, yeah, I don't mind automatically earned trophies through game saves (EDIT: I blame those on the way the game and/or system were manufactured). What if someone has 89 Platinum(s) and, for example, 22 of them are "faked"? I know about the EULA, but I can't help thinking let others do what they want, as long as they don't ruin your 'gaming-session', having more trophies certainly doesn't classify as that.
 
I'd like to ask about something which is somewhat related to this topic: those who hate hacking/game-saves' downloads also hate Trophy guides/tips/walkthroughs, perhaps? I don't know about you, but for me following that stuff, even though provided with the bests intentions, could pretty much be considered cheating/downloading someone else's save: "you" may be the one taking action, but still, somebody else told you how to do it.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Vergilex

[SolarSync]

Anything that is done which is outside of the game's constraints. Bug, glitches, exploits etc should be used, that was 1980/90 gaming all over!

 

Hacking, modding, sharing saves, using quick fire controllers and getting another to play for you is cheating though.

 

As long as I complete a game in any way that the game allows me too, I consider it legit.

This kind of discussion just made me think about something: Where must we actually draw the line, in regards to cheating? Personally, I don't mind anything which doesn't give an unfair advantage to a player in a multiplayer game. So, yeah, I don't mind automatically earned trophies through game saves (EDIT: I blame those on the way the game and/or system were manufactured). What if someone has 89 Platinum(s) and, for example, 22 of them are "faked"? I know about the EULA, but I can't help thinking let others do what they want, as long as they don't ruin your 'gaming-session', having more trophies certainly doesn't classify as that.
 
I'd like to ask about something which is somewhat related to this topic: those who hate hacking/game-saves' downloads also hate Trophy guides/tips/walkthroughs, perhaps? I don't know about you, but for me following that stuff, even though provided with the bests intentions, could pretty much be considered cheating/downloading someone else's save: "you" may be the one taking action, but still, somebody else told you how to do it.

 

I don't agree there is a major difference here. Not to go to deep but this could be said for anything in the world, learning at school or university. A teacher tells you things but you cannot say that you don't know it properly because you didn't figure it out yourself.

 

I don't mind trophy hackers, I couldn't care less. As long as mine are legit, I enjoy attaining them. What bothers me about trophy hackers is the fact that they must be doing it solely to get a high score with only purpose in mind; so others can see it. So it can be said that they want people to see their trophies, however ill gotten they were gained, and for people to think "God, they're good!"

[Vergilex]

Anything that is done which is outside of the game's constraints. Bug, glitches, exploits etc should be used, that was 1980/90 gaming all over!

 

Hacking, modding, sharing saves, using quick fire controllers and getting another to play for you is cheating though.

 

As long as I complete a game in any way that the game allows me too, I consider it legit.

 

I don't agree there is a major difference here. Not to go to deep but this could be said for anything in the world, learning at school or university. A teacher tells you things but you cannot say that you don't know it properly because you didn't figure it out yourself.

Huh, should have added somewhere that I was referring to the sentence: "Going against the spirit of the Trophy", sorry. Can you really call such things yours, when you had to follow someone's else instructions to earn them? In my opinion, nope.... Or rather, not completely. Someone else did the job for you, that's pretty much a different way of downloading game-saves.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Vergilex

[SolarSync]

Huh, should have added somewhere that I was referring to the sentence: "Going against the spirit of the Trophy", sorry. Can you really call such things yours, when you had to follow someone's else instructions to earn them? In my opinion, nope.... Or rather, not completely. Someone else did the job for you, that's pretty much a different way of downloading game-saves.

 

This is true, but isn't everything we do based from the learning of others? Downloading game saves is solely relying on another's actions to gain something, much like cheating in a test. Following a guide to a game is much like revising for a test, and hopefully doing well in it. There is a difference, albeit very fine.

[Vergilex]

This is true, but isn't everything we do based from the learning of others? Downloading game saves is solely relying on another's actions to gain something, much like cheating in a test. Following a guide to a game is much like revising for a test, and hopefully doing well in it. There is a difference, albeit very fine.

I guess I can't just see such small difference dignifying one method more than the other.

 

Downloading game saves is solely relying on another's actions to gain something = Reading a guide/tip, or looking at the video is the same thing. In both cases you're relying on someone else's effort... Whether you do this because you lack the skill to earn it yourself, or you just want to show off is irrilevant. Really, even when you copy and resign a save.... There aren't that MANY cases in which they go and unlock Trophies instantly upon loading.... It's more like you having 75% - 80% of the trophy's task done.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Vergilex

[SolarSync]

You have a good point, and I agree that both use the efforts of other people. My opinion is that one does more so than the other and is a lot less fun!

 

I personally love guides, and trophies aside, it helps me get the full use out of a game before it becomes monotonous and a drag.

 

Just made me think imagine collecting GTA IV pigeons without a guide, that would be some long achievement

[Vergilex]

You have a good point, and I agree that both use the efforts of other people. My opinion is that one does more so than the other and is a lot less fun!

 

I personally love guides, and trophies aside, it helps me get the full use out of a game before it becomes monotonous and a drag.

 

Just made me think imagine collecting GTA IV pigeons without a guide, that would be some long achievement

Heh, another great point from you, too, but who's to say that "X" game hasn't become monotonous/frustrating for random guy/girl, and such person simply went: "To hell with it" and chose the easy way to earn the trophies? Not everyone is going to such extents as hacking simply to show off

 

Heck, as I've stated in my latest profile update, I've got tempted myself to resign a save of METAL GEAR SOLID 4: GUNS OF THE PATRIOTS, I had already unlocked everything through 2008-2009; instead played dumb and left my console on for 52 hours straight... In order to unlock the last few emblems I missed for the iPod track.

 

LittleBigPlanet2, though, that's a different story for me. That piece of crap froze 8 times on me over the span of 2 hours.

[Saltyie]

I think anyway of cutting completion time down (like demon souls duping), isn't cheating, it may be cheap, but the developers overlooked that bug, so I think it's only fair people can use that glitch if they want to. Another example is RDR's level 50 exploit. Rockstar is so caught up in GTA V, that they haven't paid attention to Red Dead's online, now it's a hacked piece of shit, so I think it's only fair that since we bought the game, we can use the level 50 exploit they can't be arsed patching (they definitely know about it.)

 

Anything that gets you ahead of others in a way that isn't available to average joe, like Dark Souls 2 mules, or unlocking every trophy in 10 seconds, IS cheating.