What do you consider cheating in videogames?

[Mr_Freaker]

I was wondering about cheating in videogames (hence the topic being made).

 

Many of us use exploits, bugs, glitches, ... to achieve our virtual goals.

Famous examples are getting cash or leveling up.

 

But is this considered cheating?

 

I have an opinion about this, but I would prefer to hear others first.

[merciful84]

_{Personally, I say just hacking. Taking advantage of exploits and bugs is part of the game and its poor design.}

[yellowwindow7]

the rules i know in video games is like this, if i used a glitch / bug that in the actual game i'm playing then it's not cheating.

this is also the rules in speed runs too. 

[Naoto Shirogane]

Personally what I consider cheating is gaining an advantage over other players or the game. Basically hacking. It's not cheating if the game itself already has cheats such as Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag where you can enable it (Although you have to earn them) or if the game lets you put cheat codes in them via password or code. 

[Mr_Freaker]

the rules i know in video games is like this, if i used a glitch / bug that in the actual game i'm playing then it's not cheating.

this is also the rules in speed runs too. 

 

What if you were to remove a patch that fixes said glitch/bug?

[nenugalimas]

if its in the game by default its legit. Be it exploits, glitches, etc. i only consider hacking as cheating.

[willmill97]

Auto unlocking trophies, whether the game lets you or not. Feel free to disagree, this is the internet after all.

[brainfrozeno00o]

I'll consider hacking as cheating.

 

the rules i know in video games is like this, if i used a glitch / bug that in the actual game i'm playing then it's not cheating.

this is also the rules in speed runs too. 

Glitches/bugs really do help a lot in speed runs.   

[yellowwindow7]

What if you were to remove a patch that fixes said glitch/bug?

 

that i don't know what should be considered off, even though i still think it's not cheating, some websites like speed demon archive kinda does this.. for an example look at sonic adventure speed runners, and let's take a look at the NGC and the HD PSN, XBLA versions, the HD release is more like a patched version of the NGC one where they put more invisible walls to prevent players to take shortcut's by going off the map and so you can see a speed run for both versions.

 

some people don't have internet in the area they're living at and they mostly play with an unpatched games so we can't judge on them to be hackers or cheaters.

Edited April 14, 2014 by yellowwindow7

[StrickenBiged]

In addition to hacking, I also consider using modded controllers (e.g. the ones which give you a quicker trigger finger) a cheat.  See for example CoD multiplayer.

 

Also, getting someone else to play part of the game for you, whether you pay them or not. See for example, gold farmers in China in the early days of WoW.  This could apply to having someone else boost or grind for you, or even unlock trophies for you if you share your account.

 

Basically, anything which gives you an unfair advantage over other players.  

 

Hacking, I would say, is a sub-set of "cheating".

 

Using a glitch/exploit is not cheating because other players could do it too, therefore there is no unfair advantage.

[BrunoBomb]

For me cheating is just getting a save on the internet. For me cheating is winning something but you didn't worked for them. There is glitches and bugs you can use to finish more quickly. I can say that in Jak II and Jak 3 I used the glitch to get the percursor orbs but I had to repeat those missions over and over and over again to get the trophies so I worked to get those trophies... not the way the game creators wanted but it was possible so it's not cheating. It is but it isn't very bad as using someone's save to get trophies.

[MacJunegrand]

Simple: cheating is achieving a particular goal the game gives you by bypassing the rules of the game instead of using a permitted path, in order to make the game easier for you.

 

Doing something the game doesn't allow you by its normal rules is cheating, so I'd consider removing a patch to achieve a goal cheating, since you're purposely changing the rules of the game, even after the game itself changed them.  Now, if you don't know the game changed the rules (i.e. you didn't get the new patch), that's not cheating.  Remember, it's only cheating if you do it on purpose.  That includes taking advantage of a game's bugs or glitches.

 

Going by my definition, even if a cheat is included as part of the game it doesn't necessarily count as cheating.  For instance, a game might contain a cheat for Big Head mode.  Its purpose is purely amusement, it doesn't give you an unfair advantage over the game world.

 

It also depends how did you achieve a certain advantage.  In some games, you can use a cheat code to give you infinite ammo.  I consider that cheating, because you didn't earn that advantage by playing, you gave the advantage to yourself by inputting a code.  In other games, though, you can get infinite ammo by purchasing or obtaining upgrades as part of the gameplay.  Then, it's definitely not cheating.

 

That being said, cheating isn't necessarily bad.  Sometimes you just do it for fun and not to win the game.  You can give yourself invincibility and infinite ammo and destroy the gameworld, then reload and play again normally.  As long as you don't negatively affect other players' gaming, there's nothing wrong with that.  Sometimes the game itself cheats, which can make your cheating look fair in comparison (your mileage may vary about that).

Edited April 14, 2014 by MacJunegrand

[daftprophet]

Hacking, gamesaves, all that BS.  That's really about it.  

[Stevieboy]

What if you were to remove a patch that fixes said glitch/bug?

 

I've been watching a lot of the speed runs of games that AGDQ (Awesome Games Done Quick), ESA (European Speedster Assembly) and SDA (Speed Demos Archive) have done and they have to follow certain rules. Using glitches and skips are fine and so is removing the patches that fix them.

 

One example is the runs of Borderlands 2 that I've seen. They run the game using the 1.01 version. The reason is that they can use glitches like the evil smasher glitch amongst others that were later patched out. It also has to be the 1.01 version so they can use the Mechromancer Gaige. However, using that version means they have to content with some of the bugs that were later fixed, such as the game being liable to "soft lock". So, all in all, they gain some advantage but also gain some problems too.

 

Basically, they can do that and it still confirms to the rules of speed running games and is therefore not considered cheating.

[The_Dragon_Man]

Just hacking and using game saves i think. Cheatings only bad in multiplayer imo since it negatively affects other peoples experience. Do what you want in single player since that's your personal story/ experience to alter.

On a side note: I miss cheat codes sometimes though. There used to be some really cool ones to make games more fun but they seemed to have died on ps3

[Dead_Barry]

Hacking, exploits, glitching and downloading gamesaves.

[lporiginalg]

Exploits and glitches are cheating. Cheat codes aren't cheating. If devs put cheat codes in their game then it's up to them to decide if they want those codes to disable trophies, if they don't then there's nothing wrong with using them to get trophies. But people always say glitching and exploiting is fine because "it's part of the game" and "everyone else can do it" when in reality it was never meant to be part of the game and the only other people that are doing it are the skill-lacking-cheaters like you ^^

 

Using codes to get extra money and nodes in Dead Space = not cheating

Using glitch to get full free armor at start of Impossible difficulty in Dead Space = cheating

 

If you walk across the middle of the street (jay walking) and no car hits you and no policeman stops you does that mean there's no bylaw against it? I mean sure, you know the rules, but if the cop doesn't catch you that's a flaw in the system, and that's not your fault right, and anyone else can take advantage of that too right? Good luck with those arguments when you eventually go in front of a judge ^^

[KitsuneChaos]

Generally anything that edits the configurations in games through unnatural, extraneous means, be it a separately purchased device, or coding.

Exploits are one thing, but cracking into your console to change the way software is handled is something completely different. 

[RHGSniperFox]

I've been watching a lot of the speed runs of games that AGDQ (Awesome Games Done Quick), ESA (European Speedster Assembly) and SDA (Speed Demos Archive) have done and they have to follow certain rules. Using glitches and skips are fine and so is removing the patches that fix them.

 

One example is the runs of Borderlands 2 that I've seen. They run the game using the 1.01 version. The reason is that they can use glitches like the evil smasher glitch amongst others that were later patched out. It also has to be the 1.01 version so they can use the Mechromancer Gaige. However, using that version means they have to content with some of the bugs that were later fixed, such as the game being liable to "soft lock". So, all in all, they gain some advantage but also gain some problems too.

 

Basically, they can do that and it still confirms to the rules of speed running games and is therefore not considered cheating.

That's according to their own rules, though. They condone them, but that doesn't mean it isn't cheating. In the grand scheme of things - they're still cheating to get those fast times. They have to break the game in order to do the things they do - most of the time, those glitches require such strict timing and positioning, the average gamer can't hope to pull them off. They often take a lot of practice.

 

--

In regards to using glitches - they aren't "part of the game", they aren't intended to be used, they're bugs - and you can't always chalk it up to bad design. Just because it's there doesn't mean they just left it in for you to use - it means they didn't find it in testing and it slipped through. Hence why they get patched in the first place. If it was all OK - people wouldn't complain about them being used in games like GTAV to get mass amounts of cash.

 

How is it that's bad, but using a glitch to skip a tough fight, or to gain copious amounts of experience isn't? They're all the same thing - gaining an advantage that you didn't have before.

Cheating is using anything that isn't within the parameters of the game's rules to give yourself the upperhand over the game world, or another player.

IE: Using GTAV as an example. Exploiting the stock market in single player to gain a ton of cash is perfectly fine. That's what it's there for, and they want you to do so - it's what the Assassination missions from Lester are for.

 

Selling and reselling a car over and over and over by exploiting a glitch that allowed you to visit the in-game store and duplicate your vehicle, that's cheating.

 

Both are exploiting something in the game - but one is intentional, the other isn't.

Like someone else mentioned - cheat codes can still be considered cheating ( That's why they're called cheat codes :/ ), as they give you a massive advantage, usually early on. Things like Infinite Ammo or Unlock All Abilities. Things like Big Head or Disco Blood are fine - they just change aesthetics. Yes, the devs put them in, but it's still cheating - you're gaining things before you're really supposed to have them.

 

Now, if they're something like what Naughty Dog does - where you can't use them until you've actually finished the game on that difficulty, that's a different story ( Using the glitch to get them on a higher difficulty is definitely cheating, though. )

Edited April 14, 2014 by VicFox

[merciful84]

That's according to their own rules, though. They condone them, but that doesn't mean it isn't cheating. In the grand scheme of things - they're still cheating to get those fast times. They have to break the game in order to do the things they do - most of the time, those glitches require such strict timing and positioning, the average gamer can't hope to pull them off. They often take a lot of practice.

 

--

In regards to using glitches - they aren't "part of the game", they aren't intended to be used, they're bugs - and you can't always chalk it up to bad design. Just because it's there doesn't mean they just left it in for you to use - it means they didn't find it in testing and it slipped through. Hence why they get patched in the first place. If it was all OK - people wouldn't complain about them being used in games like GTAV to get mass amounts of cash.

 

How is it that's bad, but using a glitch to skip a tough fight, or to gain copious amounts of experience isn't? They're all the same thing - gaining an advantage that you didn't have before.

Cheating is using anything that isn't within the parameters of the game's rules to give yourself the upperhand over the game world, or another player.

IE: Using GTAV as an example. Exploiting the stock market in single player to gain a ton of cash is perfectly fine. That's what it's there for, and they want you to do so - it's what the Assassination missions from Lester are for.

 

Selling and reselling a car over and over and over by exploiting a glitch that allowed you to visit the in-game store and duplicate your vehicle, that's cheating.

 

Both are exploiting something in the game - but one is intentional, the other isn't.

Like someone else mentioned - cheat codes can still be considered cheating ( That's why they're called cheat codes :/ ), as they give you a massive advantage, usually early on. Things like Infinite Ammo or Unlock All Abilities. Things like Big Head or Disco Blood are fine - they just change aesthetics. Yes, the devs put them in, but it's still cheating - you're gaining things before you're really supposed to have them.

 

Now, if they're something like what Naughty Dog does - where you can't use them until you've actually finished the game on that difficulty, that's a different story ( Using the glitch to get them on a higher difficulty is definitely cheating, though. )

 

I just don't agree. Cheating is a reprehensible action that goes against the ESTABLISHED parameters of a game. However, if said game's developer didn't dot all their "I"s and cross all their "T"s into something that critically changes the way a game is played then its not cheating on the part of the gamer. It IS poor game design because if it was overlooked but the glitch/bug gives the player that big of an advantage then somebody(ies) seriously screwed up.

 

Its like I always tell people about Demon's Souls...its only as difficult as by how much you raise your soul level with the souls you dupe and how fast you can exit the game when you die. Sure you can pretend like neither exploit exists and make the game difficult for yourself or you can kick the game's butt back by being just as cheap

 

Seriously, once upon a time ago before online connectivity and patches, developers actually HAD to release a completed game with minimum glitches/bugs. If they didn't they were either just screwed or had to release a "Super", "Turbo", or "Hyper Ex" edition (which for some irritating reason still happens today with the same game).

If you walk across the middle of the street (jay walking) and no car hits you and no policeman stops you does that mean there's no bylaw against it? I mean sure, you know the rules, but if the cop doesn't catch you that's a flaw in the system, and that's not your fault right, and anyone else can take advantage of that too right? Good luck with those arguments when you eventually go in front of a judge ^^

 

But if the local government forgot to establish a "no jay walking" law or the "WALK" sign glitches (permanantly staying that way) despite the traffic light being green...are you still breaking the law?

Edited April 14, 2014 by merciful84

[RHGSniperFox]

I just don't agree. Cheating is a reprehensible action that goes against the ESTABLISHED parameters of a game. However, if said game's developer didn't dot all their "I"s and cross all their "T"s into something that critically changes the way a game is played then its not cheating on the part of the gamer. It IS poor game design because if it was overlooked but the glitch/bug gives the player that big of an advantage then somebody(ies) seriously screwed up.

 

Its like I always tell people about Demon's Souls...its only as difficult as by how much you raise your soul level with the souls you dupe and how fast you can exit the game when you die. Sure you can pretend like neither exploit exists and make the game difficult for yourself or you can kick the game's butt back by being just as cheap

 

Seriously, once upon a time ago before online connectivity and patches, developers actually HAD to release a completed game with minimum glitches/bugs. If they didn't they were either just screwed or had to release a "Super", "Turbo", or "Hyper Ex" edition (which for some irritating reason still happens today with the same game).

 

But if the local government forgot to establish a "no jay walking" law or the "WALK" sign glitches (permanantly staying that way) despite the traffic light being green...are you still breaking the law?

If there is no law, no, you aren't breaking it. You can't break a law that doesn't exist. That would be similar to grinding out XP by farming respawning enemies. There's nothing against it. It's not cheating. Using a glitch to do so instead would be breaking the law. The game tells you you can do something a certain way - but you used a method that wasn't intended to be used to circumvent those rules.

 

If the sign glitches but there's a law in place, yes, you are breaking the law.

 

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse". The sign is there for a reason - to tell you what you're supposed to do. It not working doesn't make the law cease to exist. You might be able to plead a case then and get a lesser punishment - but you'll still get in trouble. There are no signs around that state "Don't murder people.", yet we know that murder is still illegal.

 

Glitches aren't a part of the game's parameters - that's why they're called glitches. They're abnormalities - not meant to occur. A testing team can't find every glitch - that's impossible to do. A lot of glitches that occur require specific things to happen at specific times - it's impossible to test for every possible variable. When they do find a glitch, they fix the way they found it - but that doesn't mean it can't occur another way that they never found.

 

IE: The testers find that, say, a glitch occurs where you can get tons of money by opening and closing a treasure chest over and over. They fix that - but the glitch could still happen if the player does something else - maybe they enter the inventory screen at the same time, or they pause the game over and over. They didn't think about that because, honestly, who the hell is going to try and do that on purpose other than someone with too much time on their hands? Even if they had tested for it - there could be an even more obscure method of doing it.

 

Think about Super Mario Bros. on the NES - the infamous "Minus World". Do you really think the testers thought "Hey, let's see what happens if we sit on the edge of this pipe, break a couple of bricks, do a specific jump landing on a specific spot on the pipe and see if we can slide through it and then go down the pipe before the warp pipes fully load."?

 

To act like it's just a matter of "They didn't cross their T's or dot their I's" is a bit ignorant of what goes into game testing. And to think that games had to be released "completed and relatively bug free" in a time when teams were even smaller, and had even less testing done to them is downright silly. Literally every game ever released has glitches of some sort - even games that are loved by the masses

 

Just because you don't feel bad about doing it, doesn't mean it isn't cheating.

Edited April 14, 2014 by VicFox

[Time4Tiddy]

I have been thinking about this lately because I'm working on my difficulty playthroughs that are required for Mass Effect.  Someone posted a "tip" about how to use a normal game save from the end of the game and start new games and hardcore/insanity and then use data utilities to overwrite files and poof you'll have your hardcore and insanity done with no combat and no 15-30 hours of playtime.  

 

To me that feels absolutely like cheating/hacking, since the trophy was clearly intended to have you play through the game three full times on increasingly hard difficulties, and you have to manipulate save files from outside the game to do it.  However, no one has reported the tip, or if they have, it's not been removed.

 

I understand the desire to save time, but to me in some cases the trophy is just as much about the skill of finishing on Insanity as it is about getting through another full playthrough.

 

I have certainly used in-game glitches before, like sitting outside the matrix bubble in AC:B to finish the tank at 100%, or scaling the supposed-to-be-unclimbable cliff in Dragon's Dogma to get to the Witchwood faster, so I'm not completely opposed to using an opportunity, but where is the line drawn?   

[lporiginalg]

Just to elaborate further on why I said cheat codes aren't cheating, I said that under the assumption that this discussion was on the context of cheating trophies. I agree that if you use cheat codes you are cheating the game but if the devs decided to not have those codes disable trophies then your trophies are perfectly legit in my opinion because you did everything within the intended parameters.

 

When discussing law there is a concept that often comes up called the spirit of the law.  This is the same principal I use when deciding if something is a cheat or not. For example in Street Fighter 4 I wasn't able to do Viper's 3rd trial and after hours of attempting it I started messing around with the 'pause' strategy and was able to eventually do it that way. It seems like many here would argue that this isn't cheating because pause is a normal function built right into the game. I would argue of course that it is cheating because I did not do the trial the way it was intended to be done.

 

Boosting is the other obvious example and I have this discussion with people all the time. They say that the trophy description is to kill three people at once with a grenade and so they boost it with their friends and then say look, I blew up three people at once with a grenade so how can that be cheating? You did what the trophy description told you to do but not what it wanted you to do. What you did was against the spirit of the trophy.

[closertim]

In my eyes, if you're playing the game in a manner where you are doing something dodgy to activate a glitch or exploit, then it's cheating. That goes for cheat codes as well.

Can we put an end to these stupid threads?

[DerringDo]

To me, cheating is whenever you play a new video game instead of finishing the one you were already playing.

 

In all seriousness, taking advantage of known glitches and exploits (to gain advantage over the game or other players, not for fun / exploration), using turbo controllers, hacking (including the old Game Genies / Game Sharks / Action Replay), and save-sharing are pretty obvious cheats. I consider changing your system clock to access special features or earn achievements and trophies; exploiting saves to witness multiple story outcomes or achievements and trophies; and boosting in multiplayer without actually playing for ranking, unlocks, or achievements and trophies to be rather unethical ... but mostly really, really, really boring and disappointing.

Edited April 15, 2014 by DerringDo