Rebirth vs Soulslike

[VER7UZ-]

Hi Guys,

 

I was thinking about like the topic says. I wanted to start the Soulsborne games for a very long time. Tried Bloodborne and liked it and Elden Ring was also great what I played (played until the first cave with the catstatue-boss). I have to admit that these FF7Rebirth Challenges are pissing me off so much that I really dislike this game right now. These challanges are more than unfair to me. Now Im at Ruler of the outer world and made it to Sephiroth two times. I dont have to tell you how the fights are. If they want to make such challanges in the third game as well Im not even happy about the release one day. Will never play this game again after I platinum it thats for sure which is sad.

 

Anyway my question is. Are the Soulsborne games so unfair too? I know what I have to expect from these titles but I dont want to get so much frustrated like I do with Rebirth. Is this a Rebirth problem or are the Soulslike games more fair than this game which is completely unfair. Cant decide between Bloodborne and Elden Ring but want to hear answers here first. Maybe some of u can give some direction. Realy looking forward to play them but Im unsure right now. They are different battlesystems I know as well. This stress is not necessary but maybe I get some answers.

[KiwiiZxx]

The VR missions are overturned and broken. However if you have the correct build and approach you can even be more broken therefore not making it that bad. Check out Optinoob on Youtube his guides make the VR missions a joke. Good luck!

[VER7UZ-]

7 minutes ago, KiwiiZxx said:

The VR missions are overturned and broken. However if you have the correct build and approach you can even be more broken therefore not making it that bad. Check out Optinoob on Youtube his guides make the VR missions a joke. Good luck!

 

I did all the VR Missions till Ruler of the outer Worlds with Optinoobs guides. Even trying this challange with his Video for it. Make it to Sephiroth but his Shadow attack is killing me unfortunatly.

[Redgrave]

I haven't played Rebirth but the Souls games are different in terms of gameplay and challenge depending on which one you play but most of the time it's about how you make your character and if you're using the stats and items correctly. It sounds simple enough but once you understand the weapon scaling and how a certain weapon goes with your stats bosses can become much more manageable.

 

The only exception thus far is Sekiro where there are no stats or other items to make things easier since you're pretty much reliant on your own skills and taking advantage of the tools the game gives you but once you get the hang of it you start playing better.

 

Another thing is if you run into anything in the Soulsborne games that come off as unfair it usually means you aren't prepared for it and FromSoft is trying to teach you that, while also having a laugh at your expense. But once you take a step back and examine your options and come back to it later the joke will be on them instead.

[the1andonly654]

Soulslikes are not unfair in general, they are kind of designed around the idea of being demanding but fair and if you're really good, you can beat them while being level one and using a guitar, and if you're not that great, you can just grind levels for a bit and have much easier time. 

Granted, I have not played Rebirth on hard and I didn't do the VR missions, but having experienced the game and doing the Remake plat... Two different kinds of games. 

[Nick240894]

11 hours ago, VER7UZ- said:

Hi Guys,

 

I was thinking about like the topic says. I wanted to start the Soulsborne games for a very long time. Tried Bloodborne and liked it and Elden Ring was also great what I played (played until the first cave with the catstatue-boss). I have to admit that these FF7Rebirth Challenges are pissing me off so much that I really dislike this game right now. These challanges are more than unfair to me. Now Im at Ruler of the outer world and made it to Sephiroth two times. I dont have to tell you how the fights are. If they want to make such challanges in the third game as well Im not even happy about the release one day. Will never play this game again after I platinum it thats for sure which is sad.

 

Anyway my question is. Are the Soulsborne games so unfair too? I know what I have to expect from these titles but I dont want to get so much frustrated like I do with Rebirth. Is this a Rebirth problem or are the Soulslike games more fair than this game which is completely unfair. Cant decide between Bloodborne and Elden Ring but want to hear answers here first. Maybe some of u can give some direction. Realy looking forward to play them but Im unsure right now. They are different battlesystems I know as well. This stress is not necessary but maybe I get some answers.

I have platinumed all the Dark Souls games, Bloodborne, Demon's Souls, Sekiro, and Elden Ring.

 

They are, imo, much more fair and well balanced than Rebirth. I think Rebirth's combat is great, but yes, some of the challenges on hard mode are just ridiculous and feel unfair.

 

This is not a feeling you ever really get in Souls, with the exception of maybe one or two bosses in Elden Ring. But even then, it's all manageable with practice. It's all about skill.

 

Personally I love them all but Bloodborne is truly a masterpiece. It's the one I started it with, so I'd definitely say you can start there and you should have a good time.

[breakXedge]

I don't think you can really compare FFVII Rebirth with any souls game, to be honest. Some fights in FFVIIR are difficult, but doable with the right equipment, yet very frustrating sometimes, not gonna lie, but less punishing, you don't lose anything besides time. On any souls game you can lose your entire currency from a bad move (like falling off a cliff). Souls games are designed to be played in a kind of slow pace, looking every corner, but still very fair if using all abilities and mechanics. And some souls games can feel difficult because you don't have a straight path, you can enter a dangeous zone by mistake and die in a second.

[Asimb0mb]

Soulslikes are generally designed to be difficult, without being unfair or ridiculous. Personally, I found the Weiss VR battle in Remake to be harder than almost anything in any soulslike (and I've played MANY of these). Weiss VR is just plain unfair and only possible with a very specific build, but even then it's not easy in the slightest. Same story for Rulers of the Outer Worlds. It's extremely difficult and unfair, even with a great build. I spent hours on that shit because RNG was not on my side most of the time.

 

With soulslikes, you can play with just about any build and never feel like the game is unfairly difficult. And you can make a very specific build which makes most of the game easy by comparison. There are still going to be those challenging boss fights, that's the essence of a soulslike, but again, it's not unfairly difficult.

[Elegy]

Souls games are mostly easy unless you play blind without any guide and don't understand the mechanics of the game's combat (i.e. its your first one).  Once you understand the i-frames on the dodge or look anything up they become 5/10 or less games which is why they have such huge platinum percentages among trophy hunters.  Pretty much all RPGs become easy once a meta is discovered that invalidates the game's challenge and lets you overpower all content with the meta builds that are posted online.  This is also currently happening with FF7 Rebirth with duplicating magic materia builds that unfairly get like 4 or 5 support materia on a single cast of the spell and yuffie/aerith brumal form + ATB ward builds that build ATB for the entire party at an impossible rate compared to any other active play strategy to allow people to freely spam aga tier spells.

I personally found FF7 rebirth harder than Souls games, but only because it requires more curation of your build for specific scenarios.  However, I played FF7 Rebirth blind and came up with my own strategies instead of using the internet.  Souls games generally let you use the same build and same strategy on every fight, you just have to learn the boss patterns to know when to i-frame everything with your huge i-frame windows on the dodge.  Miyazaki has also stated repeatedly that he doesn't make his games to be hard explicitly.  A game that is designed to be hard on purpose feels a lot different.  Ninja Gaiden 3 on ps3 is a good example of a game that is meant to be hard and the trials are going to filter 99% of everyone who plays the game because of that.

 

 

Edited March 28 by Elegy

[Prince-Varuni]

I am not that big of a fan of Soulslike games, I want to attempt them, but the idea of unable to save annoys me, especially if I die two minutes after a tough boss and there's no save point. The premise and enviroment of Elden Ring actually attracts me, it's just that other portion that gets a bit worrying. I do play on playing Steelrising and Final Fantasy- Strangers of Paradise, both meant to be Soulslike, and apparently more easier, so I'll see how well I do with them.

 

Hearing Rebirth isn't an easier game worries me too, yikes, but eventually I am going to try it. Not hard mode (I have accepted I won't likely platinum 7 Remake/Rebirth, I do not have the reflexes to do some of those trophies. My goal with the FF Franchise is actually just to play it and experience it, now it took me 30 years to actually start playing one (Remake). The platinum hunt is fun for 1-8, (And 15, maybe 12 or 16 so I have heard), but the rest, just playing for the story, experience, and get whatever trophies I am able to get. One day I may try hardmode Remake/Rebirth, not to mention 9 and 10, but that's not going to be today. And tomorrow's not looking so good either.

Edited March 28 by Prince-Varuni

[GB-Red-Eye]

On 3/26/2024 at 9:20 PM, VER7UZ- said:

Hi Guys,

 

I was thinking about like the topic says. I wanted to start the Soulsborne games for a very long time. Tried Bloodborne and liked it and Elden Ring was also great what I played (played until the first cave with the catstatue-boss). I have to admit that these FF7Rebirth Challenges are pissing me off so much that I really dislike this game right now. These challanges are more than unfair to me. Now Im at Ruler of the outer world and made it to Sephiroth two times. I dont have to tell you how the fights are. If they want to make such challanges in the third game as well Im not even happy about the release one day. Will never play this game again after I platinum it thats for sure which is sad.

 

Anyway my question is. Are the Soulsborne games so unfair too? I know what I have to expect from these titles but I dont want to get so much frustrated like I do with Rebirth. Is this a Rebirth problem or are the Soulslike games more fair than this game which is completely unfair. Cant decide between Bloodborne and Elden Ring but want to hear answers here first. Maybe some of u can give some direction. Realy looking forward to play them but Im unsure right now. They are different battlesystems I know as well. This stress is not necessary but maybe I get some answers.

No Soulsborne games are perfectly balanced so long as you take your time to understand the systems they are not hard at all. I'm not at all skilled at them and I could plat one without too much trouble. 

What you are feeling with Rebirth comes from the fact that it's a boss gauntlet. Something Soulsborne never did. Fighting ultra-hard bosses one after the other without a break is... I can't call it unfair because games are tuned and retuned to be perfectly fair. However, since you keep losing 30-60 minutes a try makes it very frustrating.

Take Celeste, for example, an ultra-hard platformer. Add just 5 seconds to the death screen and you'll have gamers rage-quitting at an alarming rate.

Frustration comes from loss of time, not the challenge itself. The same could happen in a Soulsborne if you happen to run into an ambush or a bug, which happened to me. And yeah I yelled at the screen and called it BS.

Bottom line, take your time and take breaks.

[ZombiJoel_Tlou3]

Good, this game is not like easy mode soulsborniroring games. Ninja Gaiden missions were even more insane! And btw those fromsoft games also have unfair shit like enemies hitting through walls but you can't and input reading.

[Dantia_]

Souls games are significantly easier than the Legend/Brutal challenges in Rebirth imo - bar for maybe Sekiro (debatable). I've platinumed DeS, DS3, BB, ED and Sekiro and other than maybe Malenia or Isshin I did not have that much of a trouble in any of the games mentioned compared to for example Bonds of Friendship.

 

But I definitely agree with Red-Eye that a big portion of everyone's frustation with Rebirth is it's boss rushes and the fact that they are so long and time consuming. I personally ended up going for a high damage high risk build on my attempts just so I did not feel like a complete goober when wiping on round 9/10 or 10/10 after 50 minutes of constant fighting. 

Edited March 28 by Dantia_

[Nick240894]

19 hours ago, Prince-Varuni said:

I am not that big of a fan of Soulslike games, I want to attempt them, but the idea of unable to save annoys me

You don't need to save, the game constantly auto-saves your progress.

 

When you die you are sent back to the last physical checkpoint (bonfire, lamp, site of grace, etc...), but that geographical setback is the only loss of progress. In other words, if you pick up a new weapon right before dying, when you respawn you will still have that weapon in your inventory. Any quest progress you've made is also saved. All you have to do is make it back to where you died, you don't have to redo anything else.

 

And most of the time the distance between the checkpoint and the boss is not that far, especially in the recent games. In Elden Ring it's a complete non-issue. You usually respawn 10 to 15 seconds from the boss at the most.

 

I think the longest run back in all of Elden Ring is maybe like 45 seconds, and it's for an easy boss that you won't die to much anyway. For 99% of the game it's a complete non-issue.

Edited March 28 by Nick240894

[Nick240894]

19 hours ago, Elegy said:

Souls games are mostly easy unless you play blind without any guide and don't understand the mechanics of the game's combat (i.e. its your first one).  Once you understand the i-frames on the dodge or look anything up they become 5/10 or less games which is why they have such huge platinum percentages among trophy hunters.  Pretty much all RPGs become easy once a meta is discovered that invalidates the game's challenge and lets you overpower all content with the meta builds that are posted online.  This is also currently happening with FF7 Rebirth with duplicating magic materia builds that unfairly get like 4 or 5 support materia on a single cast of the spell and yuffie/aerith brumal form + ATB ward builds that build ATB for the entire party at an impossible rate compared to any other active play strategy to allow people to freely spam aga tier spells.

I personally found FF7 rebirth harder than Souls games, but only because it requires more curation of your build for specific scenarios.  However, I played FF7 Rebirth blind and came up with my own strategies instead of using the internet.  Souls games generally let you use the same build and same strategy on every fight, you just have to learn the boss patterns to know when to i-frame everything with your huge i-frame windows on the dodge.  Miyazaki has also stated repeatedly that he doesn't make his games to be hard explicitly.  A game that is designed to be hard on purpose feels a lot different.  Ninja Gaiden 3 on ps3 is a good example of a game that is meant to be hard and the trials are going to filter 99% of everyone who plays the game because of that.

 

 

Difficulty is very subjective.

 

Overall I find From Software's games much, much harder than Rebirth. Most bosses in From Soft games take me at least 5 - 6 attempts to beat them, and some like Malenia or Mohg in Elden Ring took me like 10 hours of attempts.

 

In Rebirth on normal mode I beat almost every single boss on my first attempt. And nothing took more than 3 or 4 tries.

 

Hard mode was mostly the same. Aside from Jenova and Galian Beast, I beat everything in 2 to 4 tries. So from my perspective, even Rebirth's hard mode is considerably easier than Souls games.

 

Now the brutal / legendary challenges are a different story. They are kind of insane. But they are only as difficult as they are because they're long gauntlets and if you die you have to redo 20 to 40 minutes of combat. If you take each round individually, they're nowhere near as crazy. The difficulty comes from the fact that they are very long endurance tests more than from the inherent difficulty of the enemies' moves.

 

Also Rebirth gives you far more healing and buff potential than Souls games. Even the best defensive and healing options in Souls are fairly weak compared with the tools you have in Rebirth.

[Jitters84]

I've platinum'd every From Soft game (other than PS3 AC's) and honestly, if you have the stamina to platinum this with the brutal/legendary challenges you can do any souls game...Each boss on their own is still pretty easy compared to a souls game....but having to beat 10 in a row is brutal as bad RNG or loss of focus on one can throw a whole run off.  If you have the poise and patience for that, you can master a souls game...and would probably love it because the combat is more fair than FF7 Rebirths.  The only platinum that I have that was probably more brutal from a skill/patience standpoint was Hollow Knight that had an even more ridiculous boss rush mode.  And probably only Monster Hunter games compete in terms of time to platinum this game.  If I knew that I had 20 hours of hitting my head against a wall against these brutal/legendary missions *AFTER* spending hours mastering stupid sit-up mini games I don't know that I would have done it.  Happy to have the plat and my life back after a month of this :P. 

Edited March 30 by Jitters84

[Prince-Varuni]

On 3/29/2024 at 7:11 AM, Nick240894 said:

You don't need to save, the game constantly auto-saves your progress.

 

When you die you are sent back to the last physical checkpoint (bonfire, lamp, site of grace, etc...), but that geographical setback is the only loss of progress. In other words, if you pick up a new weapon right before dying, when you respawn you will still have that weapon in your inventory. Any quest progress you've made is also saved. All you have to do is make it back to where you died, you don't have to redo anything else.

 

And most of the time the distance between the checkpoint and the boss is not that far, especially in the recent games. In Elden Ring it's a complete non-issue. You usually respawn 10 to 15 seconds from the boss at the most.

 

I think the longest run back in all of Elden Ring is maybe like 45 seconds, and it's for an easy boss that you won't die to much anyway. For 99% of the game it's a complete non-issue.

I'll keep that in mind, thank you, still be a while before I get Elden Ring, between the price and my PS storage then I am okay to wait. At the moment I'll try Steelrising and Stranger of Paradise (Final Fantasy), since they are meant to be Soulslike but easier. So far Stranger is fine, just need to play it first (Trying to get through all of the FF games, platinum half of them, experience the story and get whatever trophies I can with the rest of the FF that are harder. Since I only begun to be interested in FF with the Remake being my first.

 

Yeah, all these posts kinda make me nervous about Rebirth haha. I am going to try it, but first I want to platinum Horizon Forbidden West and get whatever trophies I can for Baldur's Gate 3 (Because Tactician is a bit worrying, yes I am not good with hard type modes, even the easier hard mode ones I'll be honest. There's probably reasons for it, relating to disabilities which I won't get into). But alas, I am still going to try, because Rebirth does look very fun. (I'll have to delete Horizon and Baldur's Gate 3 to make room though so that's why I want to finish it first... Of course the FF are very time consuming. I am done with 1-8 pardoning 7's Remake, and up to 9. We will see what happens after.

Edited March 30 by Prince-Varuni