National Football League 2012 Thread

[xMw2x_DeCePtiOnS]

im from Aus so dont judge go 49ers from my madden knowledge i like them

[cmgravekeeper]

I really feel bad for Tebow. He is such a stand-up quality guy. His football skills may leave something to be desired, but let's face it, he led his team against all odds into the playoffs and past the Steelers. His pass in overtime was amazing. People say it was all luck, but if that is true, he certainly had luck following him play after play all season long! All I am saying is that he one of the best QB's in college football for a reason. He deserves the chance to get better. People judge him so quickly, but the Jets have not given him a chance. He did a fantastic yet unorthadox job with the Broncos. Some team like the Chiefs or Jaguars should make him their starting QB. At the very least he will draw fans in and jersey sales!!!

But now I can say the same about Sanchez, as he brought his team to the AFC Championships twice. The Broncos defense deserves a lot of credit. They held other teams to low points so that in the end Tebow could make something happen. That's not a sustainable way of winning nor is it a very reliable one. He's a great guy and all, classy and what not. But he's become overrated due to his strong religious beliefs. I'm not against religion, but I'd rather him in another team.

[DanielVT]

But now I can say the same about Sanchez, as he brought his team to the AFC Championships twice. The Broncos defense deserves a lot of credit. They held other teams to low points so that in the end Tebow could make something happen. That's not a sustainable way of winning nor is it a very reliable one. He's a great guy and all, classy and what not. But he's become overrated due to his strong religious beliefs. I'm not against religion, but I'd rather him in another team.

You made some really good points. As for Tebow I as well think he should be a starter on some last place team. Some team that is desperate should give him a chance. I think he has alot of potential.

[cmgravekeeper]

You made some really good points. As for Tebow I as well think he should be a starter on some last place team. Some team that is desperate should give him a chance. I think he has alot of potential.

Jaguars would have been a perfect fit.

[acasser]

The problem with Tim Tebow is that you have to design the entire offense around him. That takes a strong commitment from the coach, but it also takes having the proper personnel around Tebow to maximize what he does well. Frankly, I think it's an offense that might work well in the short run (half a season or so), but is something a good Defensive Coordinator could tear apart in the off-season and be prepared for come the next season.

There's a reason most gimmicks don't last the test of time. Read-option, college-style offenses don't work for long in the NFL where talent is more equalized and teams prefer to protect their massive investments in quarterbacks. The Wildcat has had its day in the sun and isn't something to build a standard offense around. Does anyone remember the "Run and Shoot" offenses that proliferated briefly around 20-25 years ago?

[cmgravekeeper]

The problem with Tim Tebow is that you have to design the entire offense around him. That takes a strong commitment from the coach, but it also takes having the proper personnel around Tebow to maximize what he does well. Frankly, I think it's an offense that might work well in the short run (half a season or so), but is something a good Defensive Coordinator could tear apart in the off-season and be prepared for come the next season.

There's a reason most gimmicks don't last the test of time. Read-option, college-style offenses don't work for long in the NFL where talent is more equalized and teams prefer to protect their massive investments in quarterbacks. The Wildcat has had its day in the sun and isn't something to build a standard offense around. Does anyone remember the "Run and Shoot" offenses that proliferated briefly around 20-25 years ago?

Exactly. I don't see Tebow ever flourishing as a legit QB, his mechanics overall are pretty off.

[DanielVT]

Jaguars would have been a perfect fit.

Who knows, maybe the Jaguars may still be a fit in the future? I don't see the Jets keeping him as they have just not used him to any significant extent.

[acasser]

Exactly. I don't see Tebow ever flourishing as a legit QB, his mechanics overall are pretty off.

I think there are two kinds of players in this League who can flourish. There are a handful of "great" players, who are going to excel (for the most part) regardless of the system they're placed into and the talent around them. Then there are the "good" players, who need some help in terms of scheme and a supporting cast. I think Tim Tebow fits into the second category, and the way Denver utilized him in 2011 (and the tail end of 2010) demonstrates how it can be done. Could that sort of offensive system be successful long term? My gut instinct says "no", but we've seen certain "gimmicky" kinds of offenses succeed for longer periods of time, even without top-shelf talent. In addition, a team has to invest very heavily into the things that will make Tebow more effective, and I don't see how many teams would be willing to do that.

His mechanics do leave a lot to be desired. Even with that as a demerit on his record, he won at a fairly good clip when given the reins, and that's not something that can be said about a lot of players even when their mechanics are flawless.

Who knows, maybe the Jaguars may still be a fit in the future? I don't see the Jets keeping him as they have just not used him to any significant extent.

Why wouldn't the Jets keep him, barring some team bowling them over with an offer? Tebow's contract is very cap friendly if you just view him as a backup QB and a guy who pops the "Q rating" off the charts. If you add in other things he's capable of doing -- for example, his willingness to be "personal protector" on the punt team and the increased ability to run successful fake punts off of that -- he's an even more valuble player.

Maybe the Jets decide to cut their losses if they clean house this off-season. I think it's entirely within the realm of possibility that the Jets fire their GM and coach (or just the former, and the new GM terminates Rex Ryan) and "back up the (proverbial) truck" insofar as the roster and start from "scratch". If one tears down the team as presently constructed and decides to begin a fresh "three-year plan" to build it back up, the draft pick(s) received for Tebow might be more valuble than the player himself.

[Beyondthegrave07]

First off, I am not a jets fan (I'm probably the only die-hard colts fan on this website), but if I were the jets (which I'm obviously not), I'd clean house starting with that blabber mouth of a coach and work my way down to the offensive coordinator. If their defense (which I always thought were pretty good), gets pwned like thanksgiving again this season, I'd throw him out too.

As for Mark Sanchez...

I'd give him 1 more year as the starter with a new coach and coordinator. Maybe all he needs is some new guidance...he'll either sink or swim.

[DanielVT]

I think there are two kinds of players in this League who can flourish. There are a handful of "great" players, who are going to excel (for the most part) regardless of the system they're placed into and the talent around them. Then there are the "good" players, who need some help in terms of scheme and a supporting cast. I think Tim Tebow fits into the second category, and the way Denver utilized him in 2011 (and the tail end of 2010) demonstrates how it can be done. Could that sort of offensive system be successful long term? My gut instinct says "no", but we've seen certain "gimmicky" kinds of offenses succeed for longer periods of time, even without top-shelf talent. In addition, a team has to invest very heavily into the things that will make Tebow more effective, and I don't see how many teams would be willing to do that.

His mechanics do leave a lot to be desired. Even with that as a demerit on his record, he won at a fairly good clip when given the reins, and that's not something that can be said about a lot of players even when their mechanics are flawless.

Why wouldn't the Jets keep him, barring some team bowling them over with an offer? Tebow's contract is very cap friendly if you just view him as a backup QB and a guy who pops the "Q rating" off the charts. If you add in other things he's capable of doing -- for example, his willingness to be "personal protector" on the punt team and the increased ability to run successful fake punts off of that -- he's an even more valuble player.

Maybe the Jets decide to cut their losses if they clean house this off-season. I think it's entirely within the realm of possibility that the Jets fire their GM and coach (or just the former, and the new GM terminates Rex Ryan) and "back up the (proverbial) truck" insofar as the roster and start from "scratch". If one tears down the team as presently constructed and decides to begin a fresh "three-year plan" to build it back up, the draft pick(s) received for Tebow might be more valuble than the player himself.

Hmm....thats a really good point.

[DanielVT]

Obviously, I am a fan of the Patriots, so there is a bit lot of bias. However, despite records, I truly believe that the Patriots are the number one team in the whole AFC. Here is why all the other top teams are not:

Broncos: They have had an easy schedule and have lost to true contenders including getting massacred by the Patriots.

Texans: The upcoming matchup between the Pats and Texans will be epic. However while the Texans have a great record, they are nothing that should strike fear in another team. They are barely winning games, and it is taking luck for them to win the past two games against teams that just were not that good. This is a team that surely is overrated.

Ravens: Need I say more? They should be very concerned about losing their second seeded playoff bye to the Patriots. They only beat the Patriots thanks to a blatant mis-call by the replacement refferees. Also, this team is just not the same. The defense is nowhere near as good as it has been in the past, and Flacco can just can it with his Elite and as good as TB12 and Aaron Rodgers crap. He is not Elite and overall just can't seem to perform when it matters the most. He needed Ray Rice to bail him out with an unbelievable run against the Chargers. The Ravens like the Texans have shown that despite their great record, they have alot of holes and are just barely sqeaking out wins.

The Patriots had a rough beginning to the season, but they are now firing on all cylinders. They have lost key players like Gronk, but still they keep destroying the opposition including playoff bound teams like the Colts and Broncos. The Patriots are very dangerous right now, while the other top teams in the AFC are showing signs of potential cracking and fatigue. Anything can happen, but I am rather confident that they will be in the Super Bowl again. Let's face it, the three losses that the Patriots have represent a total margin of a measly 4 points. If that was how close they lost when they did not have everything together.....then watch out! Finally the Patriot offense is the best in the NFL (look at the stats) and the much maligned defense just keeps making plays and turnovers when it matter the most. It is truly a bend-but-don't-break defense.

I am sure I will get some hate for what I just wrote, but I would like to see what other people have to say. Bring on the friendly discussion and counter-arguments.

Edited November 27, 2012 by DanielVT

[cmgravekeeper]

While Tebow has his benefits its too much drama. With him on the team and not being the starting QB the drama will never leave the Jets. He has to be gone. I like Rex but he doesn't have control over the team. He needs to re-establish that or he's gonna be gone soon. And yeah I hope the GM is gone after this season. He's done a terrible job in recent years.

[acasser]

First off, I am not a jets fan (I'm probably the only die-hard colts fan on this website), but if I were the jets (which I'm obviously not), I'd clean house starting with that blabber mouth of a coach and work my way down to the offensive coordinator. If their defense (which I always thought were pretty good), gets pwned like thanksgiving again this season, I'd throw him out too.

As for Mark Sanchez...

I'd give him 1 more year as the starter with a new coach and coordinator. Maybe all he needs is some new guidance...he'll either sink or swim.

This is Rex Ryan's first bad season. If you're firing him, it's for the off-the-field stuff, such as the allegations he lost the locker room last year and again this year. Personally, I fire the GM and let the new guy make decisions regarding everything else.

As for Sanchez, the Jets are more-or-less stuck with him next season even if you don't want him: He's got $8.5 million guaranteed coming to him, and I doubt anyone wants to trade for him. More than that, there aren't any real QB solutions in this year's draft. Someone will draft Matt Barkley very high, even though the record of USC quarterbacks is very lackluster. Someone will draft Geno Smith and/or Collin Klein very high hoping for the next RG3, and I'd say caveat emptor to that idea. You might have Philip Rivers on the free agent market if San Diego cleans house, and the same thing applies.

Obviously, I am a fan of the Patriots, so there is a bit lot of bias. However, despite records, I truly believe that the Patriots are the number one team in the whole AFC. Here is why all the other top teams are not:

Broncos: They have had an easy schedule and have lost to true contenders including getting massacred by the Patriots.

Texans: The upcoming matchup between the Pats and Texans will be epic. However while the Texans have a great record, they are nothing that should strike fear in another team. They are barely winning games, and it is taking luck for them to win the past two games against teams that just were not that good. This is a team that surely is overrated.

Ravens: Need I say more? They should be very concerned about losing their second seeded playoff bye to the Patriots. They only beat the Patriots thanks to a blatant mis-call by the replacement refferees. Also, this team is just not the same. The defense is nowhere near as good as it has been in the past, and Flacco can just can it with his Elite and as good as TB12 and Aaron Rodgers crap. He is not Elite and overall just can't seem to perform when it matters the most. He needed Ray Rice to bail him out with an unbelievable run against the Chargers. The Ravens like the Texans have shown that despite their great record, they have alot of holes and are just barely sqeaking out wins.

The Patriots had a rough beginning to the season, but they are now firing on all cylinders. They have lost key players like Gronk, but still they keep destroying the opposition including playoff bound teams like the Colts and Broncos. The Patriots are very dangerous right now, while the other top teams in the AFC are showing signs of potential cracking and fatigue. Anything can happen, but I am rather confident that they will be in the Super Bowl again. Let's face it, the three losses that the Patriots have represent a total margin of a measly 4 points. If that was how close they lost when they did not have everything together.....then watch out! Finally the Patriot offense is the best in the NFL (look at the stats) and the much maligned defense just keeps making plays and turnovers when it matter the most. It is truly a bend-but-don't-break defense.

I am sure I will get some hate for what I just wrote, but I would like to see what other people have to say. Bring on the friendly discussion and counter-arguments.

I'm not sold on the Patriots' defense, and I think that's what is going to doom them down the stretch -- that, and the back-to-back against San Francisco and Houston where I expect the Pats to lose once.

Yes, Denver has a baby-soft schedule, but I find that less objectionable than I do in college football because teams don't do their own scheduling. They're on a roll right now, and I think Peyton Manning is going to get them a first-round bye. Anyone going to Denver is going to have issues, because that's a nasty-difficult place to play.

Houston may be winning games by the skin of their teeth, but this isn't the BCS and there aren't any style points. I see no particular reason why they wouldn't lock up homefield advantage.... and at that point it's a pair of home games between them and the Super Bowl. Will they make it from there? Not going to commit to that, but the cards are definitely in their favor from that point.

As for Baltimore, I agree with you that they're the team most likely to fall.... although I think Denver is the team that gets the bye (because New England has a difficult enough schedule and I believe they will lose another game). I also see them as a flawed team, and more than that I feel they're a team that is going to suffer when Ray Lewis returns and that will cost them at some point -- he's simply not the player he used to be and he hurts Baltimore's defense at times by being on the field. They'll beat a Wild Card team because they're nigh-near invincible at home, but I don't see them as a serious threat to go much further.

While Tebow has his benefits its too much drama. With him on the team and not being the starting QB the drama will never leave the Jets. He has to be gone. I like Rex but he doesn't have control over the team. He needs to re-establish that or he's gonna be gone soon. And yeah I hope the GM is gone after this season. He's done a terrible job in recent years.

Tim Tebow isn't the one driving the drama train. The media -- particularly ESPN -- is the chaffeur in question. I think Tim Tebow is unhappy being the backup quarterback, but he's the kind of person who would keep quiet about it and go about the rest of his business without the constant barrage of questions from hangers-on.

[DanielVT]

[Beyondthegrave07]

Why don't we just call this the NY Jets thread? lol, it's crazy how much people talk about the jets!

[cmgravekeeper]

Why don't we just call this the NY Jets thread? lol, it's crazy how much people talk about the jets!

Haha true. Though I don't mind since I'm a Jets fan.

[media=]

[/media]

That's exactly why Fireman Ed quit. Some of the fans are honestly just terrible. =\

[DanielVT]

Haha true. Though I don't mind since I'm a Jets fan.

That's exactly why Fireman Ed quit. Some of the fans are honestly just terrible. =\

You can't honestly call them "fans".

[cmgravekeeper]

You can't honestly call them "fans".

Lolz yeah, the worst are Philly fans! I'm so glad I'm not an Eagles player!

[DanielVT]

Lolz yeah, the worst are Philly fans! I'm so glad I'm not an Eagles player!

While the NFL is great, and competition is awesome and so are the rivalries, everyone needs to remember that is just a game!!!!!

[cmgravekeeper]

While the NFL is great, and competition is awesome and so are the rivalries, everyone needs to remember that is just a game!!!!!

Exactly!!!

Alright I'ma start doing this, even though it's near the end of the season. Posting who I think will win each game.

WEEK 14 PREDICTIONS

Broncos vs Raiders

Falcons vs Panthers

Titans vs Colts

Rams vs Bills

Chargers vs Steelers

Eagles vs Buccaneers

Jets vs Jaguars

Chiefs vs Browns

Cowboys vs Bengals

Bears vs Vikings

Ravens vs Redskins

Dolphins vs 49ers

Cardinals vs Seahawks

Saints vs Giants

Lions vs Packers

Texans vs Patriots

[DanielVT]

Exactly!!!

Alright I'ma start doing this, even though it's near the end of the season. Posting who I think will win each game.

WEEK 14 PREDICTIONS

Broncos vs Raiders

Falcons vs Panthers

Titans vs Colts

Rams vs Bills

Chargers vs Steelers

Eagles vs Buccaneers

Jets vs Jaguars

Chiefs vs Browns

Cowboys vs Bengals

Bears vs Vikings

Ravens vs Redskins

Dolphins vs 49ers

Cardinals vs Seahawks

Saints vs Giants

Lions vs Packers

Texans vs Patriots

I think I agree completely on every one of these picks. I especially like that you pick the Pats to win , but overall the only one I would question is the Falcons and Jaguars game.

[skidmarkgn]

Exactly!!!

Alright I'ma start doing this, even though it's near the end of the season. Posting who I think will win each game.

WEEK 14 PREDICTIONS

Broncos vs Raiders

Falcons vs Panthers

Titans vs Colts

Rams vs Bills

Chargers vs Steelers

Eagles vs Buccaneers

Jets vs Jaguars

Chiefs vs Browns

Cowboys vs Bengals

Bears vs Vikings

Ravens vs Redskins

Dolphins vs 49ers

Cardinals vs Seahawks

Saints vs Giants

Lions vs Packers

Texans vs Patriots

Agree on everything except the Falcons/Panthers, Cardinals/Seahawks (even though it's a home game for my Hawks, this one has fall apart written all over it. I'm thinking Fitzgerald has his way with the flailing Seattle Defense) Cowboys/Bengals (just because I can't stand Romo) and Texans/Patriots.

[cmgravekeeper]

I think I agree completely on every one of these picks. I especially like that you pick the Pats to win , but overall the only one I would question is the Falcons and Jaguars game.

Lolz yeah. If it was earlier in the season I totally would have gone with the Texans but the Pats are playing amazing right now. And the Texans pass defense is questionable recently. Yeah those two games could go either way, though the Panthers are playing a lot better and I think the Jets will squeeze through a win with their run game.

Agree on everything except the Falcons/Panthers, Cardinals/Seahawks (even though it's a home game for my Hawks, this one has fall apart written all over it. I'm thinking Fitzgerald has his way with the flailing Seattle Defense) Cowboys/Bengals (just because I can't stand Romo) and Texans/Patriots.

Ahhh, well I explained the Panthers and Pats. After last week's game I really don't think the Cards have it to beat the Seahawks, their offense if worse then my Jets! And while I don't like the Cowboys, I'm hoping they win cause I dislike the Giants.

[joeysax97]

Disliking the Giants?

Hmmm..

[DanielVT]

Disliking the Giants?

Hmmm..

The Giants are overrated.....sorry. They may be a good postseason team, but they are merely mediocre in the regular season. That is only going to work so far. The Patriots consistently DOMINATE the regular season, and usually make it DEEP into the postseason even if they do fall by around three points in the SB. Patriots = consistency Giants = inconsistency

Edited December 9, 2012 by DanielVT