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Star Wars: The Last Jedi

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Just got back from watching the film. 

 

I am torn: while I enjoyed the film, I don't like how it ended and fail to see how  things can come to a satisfying conclusion. 

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i am baffled at some people calling this movie bland and/or uninteresting. It is as far away from SW as you can get while still being Star Wars, it was risky and familiar all at once and I love it for that.

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rliRLXr.png

Whether you like the movie or not is objective.

But to say that it's worse than The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones is so fucking hilarious that it actually physically hurts. These people look like absolute buffoons.

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50 minutes ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

i am baffled at some people calling this movie bland and/or uninteresting. It is as far away from SW as you can get while still being Star Wars, it was risky and familiar all at once and I love it for that.

I have no problem with Disney taking Star Wars in a different direction.  I saw Rogue One and liked it.  I'm sure there could be other SW movies that I will like.  I do have a problem with them taking characters that have been loved for 40 years and f**king them up.  If they wanted a fresh start, they should not have called the goddamn movie episode seven.  You want to focus on new characters, fine.  You could have had this trilogy without the OT characters and it would have been fine (lazy writing and poor story telling aside).  But Disney wouldn't do that because they knew that was the easiest way to get as many people as possible to come see the movie.

 

By all means, reboot it.  Just don't undo everything that has come before.

Edited by Bilpe
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1 minute ago, Bilpe said:

I have no problem with Disney taking Star Wars in a different direction.  I saw Rogue One and liked it.  I'm sure there could be other SW movies that I will like.  I do have a problem with them taking characters that have been loved for 40 years and fucking them up.  If they wanted a fresh start, they should not have called the goddamn movie episode seven.  You want to focus on new characters, fine.  You could have had this trilogy without the OT characters and it would have been fine (lazy writing and poor story telling aside).  By all means, reboot it.  Just don't undo everything that has come before.


No. You really couldn't have a trilogy that takes place after the original without having guest appearances. People would be livid. And that's the problem. People are so caught up in this hellbent quest for their pathetic nostalgia, that they're the ones that have "fucked" those characters up. You can't preserve characters in a series that originally came out 40 years ago without making significant changes to them. Why? Because like us, characters change as they get older. SURPRISED?!?!?!?

I'm guessing these "fuck ups" are about Leia and her Superman moment. Which, don't get me wrong, I laughed out loud in the theater, and so did a few others. But aside from that unintended comedic moment, I don't really understand your anguish. Most people seem to be upset about the misdirection in the trailers. Then again, who the fuck knows, I've learned that the Star Wars fanbase is cancerous and cannot be satisfied.

You get bitched at if you make a film that's too much like the originals. You get bitched at if you make a film that's completely different. There's just no winning. And if this is the kind of person you are, you need to move the fuck on from the saga as a whole.

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11 minutes ago, Valyrious said:

You can't preserve characters in a series that originally came out 40 years ago without making significant changes to them. Why? Because like us, characters change as they get older. SURPRISED?!?!?!?
 

I won't argue the merits of the last Indiana Jones movie as far as entertainment value goes, but yes you can bring them back just as they were.  Indiana Jones was the same guy as the last time you saw him.  He didn't suddenly become a coward.  That is what a "serial" is all about.  This is what Star Wars has been and was conceived as by George Lucas.  To completely change a character at his core because it drives the story is lazy and inexcusable.

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27 minutes ago, Bilpe said:

I have no problem with Disney taking Star Wars in a different direction.  I saw Rogue One and liked it.  I'm sure there could be other SW movies that I will like.  I do have a problem with them taking characters that have been loved for 40 years and f**king them up.  If they wanted a fresh start, they should not have called the goddamn movie episode seven.  You want to focus on new characters, fine.  You could have had this trilogy without the OT characters and it would have been fine (lazy writing and poor story telling aside).  But Disney wouldn't do that because they knew that was the easiest way to get as many people as possible to come see the movie.

 

By all means, reboot it.  Just don't undo everything that has come before.

None of the developments in the movie felt unjustified or out of no where. If you're referring to Luke, his development made him interesting and less of a caricature and more of an actual person.

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1 hour ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

i am baffled at some people calling this movie bland and/or uninteresting. It is as far away from SW as you can get while still being Star Wars, it was risky and familiar all at once and I love it for that.

 

Just check the metacritic score - 8.6 from critics, 4.9 from the audience. It's a very solid film but the fandom is divided.

 

Personally, I love it, I think Luke was handled perfectly, I think the new heroes were written pretty well and Iam looking forward to the conclusion.

 

20 hours ago, MosesRockefeller said:

 

 

Not watching trailers and reading spoilers really paid off for me. Several plot twists took me by surprise.

  Hide contents

The big ones were Snoke getting killed, Luke projecting himself, Yoda appearing, and Luke dying. If you had asked me a week ago, I would have thought Snoke would stick around until Ep 9. In the back of my mind I suspected that Luke would die in this movie, but I still held out hope that he would make it to Ep 9 to kick some First Order butt. The projection thing and Yoda popping up were just fun moments that I wasn't expecting. Although I did notice that Luke was using Anakin's lightsaber with his projection, which made me start wondering "did he build a replica?"

 

Finally, someone else actually going into the movie itself.

 

Spoiler

I accidentally saw a trailer in front of Thor in the cinema but I didn't expect any of those twists. I saw Snoke's death coming a mile away but the others were all complete surprises. I was so into the film I didn't even notice Luke had the"wrong" saber.

 

Quote

Things I really liked:

  Hide contents
  • Rose was a cool new character, and I liked seeing the three New Trilogy heroes + Kylo get more development. Now we have a possible love triangle with Finn, Rose, and Rey, or maybe Rey will be more of a sister to Finn... who knows.
  • The hacker/thief character was a lot of fun.
  • The hyperspace ramming sequence was awesome and one of my favorite Star Wars set piece moments.
  • The use of red salt in the last combat sequence was a really neat visual.
  • Seeing the Millennium Falcon in real combat again was great. My heart raced like a little kid.
  • The Porgs were great. I know they were thrown in for kids but they cracked me up. Maybe they were in too many scenes, but it was hilarious when one of them looked at Chewie with cute anime eyes to try to shame him out of eating one.
  • It was fun to see Luke again, even though it was short lived. I think the character was handled fine, like Han in Ep 7, but like Han it was hard for me to let go of the character.
  • Yoda popping up was a highlight for me. I loved his dialog: "Read them did you? Pageturners they are not!" I like that Yoda is even more eccentric as a ghost, and that he still has wisdom to share. I don't think he needs to show up again in Ep 9 but I hope Force Ghost Luke does.
  • I loved that Luke was persuaded to help the Resistance by R2 showing him the same video recording that kicked off their adventures together, all those years before.
  • The death of Snoke and the battle in his chamber was awesome. He appears to have been one of the most powerful Force Users we've seen. It would be interesting if a side/anthology movie explores his past.

 

Spoiler

All agreed save for my following points:

  • Finn/Rey seems to be a non-romantic relationship.
  • The salt was white, the red stuff is crystal dust.
  • Not just the Millennium Falcon, but it has the old "TIE Fighter Attack" battle music!
  • I had to get used to Yoda being a puppet again but now I love that they did it like this.

 

Quote

One side effect of the New Trilogy is making me feel old and a bit sad.

  Hide contents

I understand the story reasons for transitioning from old beloved characters to new ones, but there's a part of me that is saddened that the OT heroes didn't "live happily ever after". I think both Han and Luke had deaths befitting their characters, but childhood me wanted them to get happy endings. I wish we had gotten to see the 5-10 years after RotJ where there was peace and everyone was happy. But I know lack of conflict doesn't make fun action movies.

 

Spoiler

Have you read the Thrawn trilogy?

 

Unfortunately the actors are too old so we won't get any stories of them just after RotJsave for comics/books and other non-live-action media.

 

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Questions I have after watching the movie:

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  • What is the point of those Resistance bombers? Sure, they can one-shot kill probably anything, but they are slow, almost defenseless, and a weird replacement for Y and B Wings. I guess the idea was that they are like WW2 bombers, but it felt weird.
  • Where are the other pupils of Luke's that Kylo took with him? Those are presumably the Knights of Ren. Will we see them in Ep 9?
  • I thought Leia was dead when she got blown out of the bridge. It would have been cheap, but I was half expecting a rock to fall on her at the end of the movie. How is her character going to be handled in Ep 9?
  • The question of Leia raises a bigger point. Ep 9 is going to have very few surviving OT characters. Chewie, R2-D2, and C-3PO are still around, and I think Nien Nunb survived Ep 8 (or did he get blown up in the hanger explosion? I lost track). It would be great to see Lando again, but that's just the fanboy in me talking. I don't know if he would add much to Ep 9 from a story perspective.

 

Spoiler
  • The B-Wings are agile but yeah the Y-Wings were already bombers. I guess these new bombers are about having more firepower within one bomber.
  • I don't know if we'll ever see these other pupils, or if we'll find out if these are the "Knights Of Ren".
  • They stated they're not going to CGI Leia so we've seen the last of her. Maybe she'll be mentioned as being somewhere else, or having died?
  • I'd love to see old Lando. I was expecting him to be the expert code breaker.

 

Quote

Things I expect out of Episode 9:

  Hide contents
  • I liked that we got more space battle scenes here than in Force Awakens, but there still wasn't a big fleet battle. I really want Ep 9 to have a epic space battle to rival RotJ. I was really disappointed that the big space battle in Ep 3 was too short. There were more impressive battles in the Clone Wars series.
  • It seems obvious that we'll have an epic lightsaber battle between Kylo and Rey, and I definitely want to see that. I think we've done enough with them Force dueling each other; now I want to see a big lightsaber battle with the scenery getting destroyed all around them. We got a pretty good fight in Force Awakens, but this should be a full battle with neither of them being badly injured before the fight.
  • Maybe the New Trilogy needs to end with a more definitive defeat of evil? Make the inevitable future sequel trilogy (which I don't think the Rian Johnson trilogy is going to be) work harder and have to make a new big bad rather than a remnant of the Empire/First Order.

 

Those are the 3 things I want to see. I will keep an open mind and look forward to seeing the movie in 2 years.

 

 

Spoiler
  • Yes on a big battle scene, both vehicular and Jedi!
  • It would be good to see a defeat of the First Order, but on the other hand a lot in the new trilogy has been about how there's always evil, and how good always rises up to meet it. So a "the adventure continues" ending could be fitting as well. 

 

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Once again, I refer everyone here:

 

https://medium.com/@josvchoi/the-last-jedi-on-the-character-assassination-of-luke-skywalker-38fe0190d01a

 

Take the time to read it.  If you still feel the same, so be it.  I never came to this thread expecting to change anyone's mind but rather to ask only a question.  However:  

 

after reading Rian Johnson’s script for The Last Jedi, Hamill said, “I at one point had to say to Rian, ‘I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you’ve made for this character. Now, having said that, I have gotten it off my chest, and my job now is to take what you’ve created and do my best to realize your vision.’ ”

 

I think if the man himself had this opinion, someone who has spent years thinking about the motivations and idiosyncrasies of this character, it should give us all pause.  There will be those that point out that he walked back the above statement later, but there are legal terms like breach of contract and such to consider (plus he still wants to work as an actor and the above statement is not a good look for an actor looking for a job). 

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9 minutes ago, Bilpe said:

Once again, I refer everyone here:

 

https://medium.com/@josvchoi/the-last-jedi-on-the-character-assassination-of-luke-skywalker-38fe0190d01a

 

Take the time to read it.  If you still feel the same, so be it.  I never came to this thread expecting to change anyone's mind but rather to ask only a question.  However:  

 

after reading Rian Johnson’s script for The Last Jedi, Hamill said, “I at one point had to say to Rian, ‘I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you’ve made for this character. Now, having said that, I have gotten it off my chest, and my job now is to take what you’ve created and do my best to realize your vision.’ ”

 

I think if the man himself had this opinion, someone who has spent years thinking about the motivations and idiosyncrasies of this character, it should give us all pause.  There will be those that point out that he walked back the above statement later, but there are legal terms like breach of contract and such to consider (plus he still wants to work as an actor and the above statement is not a good look for an actor looking for a job). 

Hamill has also said that he is very proud of what the movie turned out to be and that he consider Rian to be a brilliant director - this is a big change for the character, no one is denying this - and for an actor like Mark who's played this iconic figure in pop culture for so long it's obvious that he would be taken by surprise; but if Mark's heart ultimately wasn't in the project his performance wouldn't be half as good as it turned out to be.

 

People don't want change so we get TFA and then people want change so we TLJ and they like neither and the main takeaway is you can never win with this fandom. 

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5 minutes ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

Hamill has also said that he is very proud of what the movie turned out to be and that he consider Rian to be a brilliant director - this is a big change for the character, no one is denying this - and for an actor like Mark who's played this iconic figure in pop culture for so long it's obvious that he would be taken by surprise; but if Mark's heart ultimately wasn't in the project his performance wouldn't be half as good as it turned out to be.

 

People don't want change so we get TFA and then people want change so we TLJ and they like neither and the main takeaway is you can never win with this fandom. 

I respectfully disagree.  Fans called TFA derivative, yet most everyone liked it.  That's because you had familiar characters behaving in familiar ways.  Han was always the reluctant hero, check.  Leia was always the seasoned leader putting the needs of the many before her own wants, check.  Chewbacca was always the loyal sidekick who was willing to follow Han anywhere, check.  To make a character something he is not and never has been just to service the story is a travesty.  Luke was always afraid, but he went to Cloud City anyway.  He didn't hide.

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22 minutes ago, Bilpe said:

Once again, I refer everyone here:

 

https://medium.com/@josvchoi/the-last-jedi-on-the-character-assassination-of-luke-skywalker-38fe0190d01a

 

Take the time to read it.  If you still feel the same, so be it.  I never came to this thread expecting to change anyone's mind but rather to ask only a question.  However:  

 

after reading Rian Johnson’s script for The Last Jedi, Hamill said, “I at one point had to say to Rian, ‘I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you’ve made for this character. Now, having said that, I have gotten it off my chest, and my job now is to take what you’ve created and do my best to realize your vision.’ ”

 

I think if the man himself had this opinion, someone who has spent years thinking about the motivations and idiosyncrasies of this character, it should give us all pause.  There will be those that point out that he walked back the above statement later, but there are legal terms like breach of contract and such to consider (plus he still wants to work as an actor and the above statement is not a good look for an actor looking for a job). 

 

11 minutes ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

Hamill has also said that he is very proud of what the movie turned out to be and that he consider Rian to be a brilliant director - this is a big change for the character, no one is denying this - and for an actor like Mark who's played this iconic figure in pop culture for so long it's obvious that he would be taken by surprise; but if Mark's heart ultimately wasn't in the project his performance wouldn't be half as good as it turned out to be.

 

People don't want change so we get TFA and then people want change so we TLJ and they like neither and the main takeaway is you can never win with this fandom. 

 

Mark Hamill pretty much agrees with the direction Skywalker is taken in in the new movie. Naysayers love that quote but here it is clarified:

 

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/1671010/what-mark-hamill-really-meant-when-he-criticized-luke-skywalkers-direction

 

"I was quoted as saying to Rian that I fundamentally disagree with everything you decided about Luke, and it was inartfully phrased. What I was, was surprised at how he saw Luke. And it took me a while to get around to his way of thinking, but once I was there it was a thrilling experience. I hope it will be for the audience too."

 

Yes, it's a new direction. No, it's not necessarily a bad one, and Hamill doesn't think it's a bad direction either.

 

And even if he did disagree, it doesn't automatically make it a bad direction. George Lucas created the franchise, so he's a step above the actors. Did we all agree with the direction he himself took the franchise on with the prequels?

 

Luke's is a new direction though, meaning it will take some time for fans to get used to. As I said before, the fanbase was completely divided after The Empire Strikes Back as well.

 

Speaking as someone who grew up with the movies, saw them all in the cinema and has read a whole lot of the EU: I love this new direction and I think it is fitting. After my first viewing of The Last Jedi, I had to give myself a day to figure out how I felt. Almost a week and two additional viewings later, and I can wholeheartedly say that I love The Last Jedi; even if it's not perfect, it's one of the best Star Wars films there is and the first since the originals that makes me feel so amazed.

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I respect anyone's opinion on film.  I don't care for the color red, but I don't expect everyone else to dislike it because I do.  It's the same with movies.

I will say this to put a nice little bow on this discussion.  Time will tell.  How many tickets will be sold this weekend?  And for episode nine?  It won't matter one way or the other to Disney, but I won't be buying any.  There are too many good movies out there to lament what might have been with Star Wars.

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36 minutes ago, Bilpe said:

I respectfully disagree.  Fans called TFA derivative, yet most everyone liked it.  That's because you had familiar characters behaving in familiar ways.  Han was always the reluctant hero, check.  Leia was always the seasoned leader putting the needs of the many before her own wants, check.  Chewbacca was always the loyal sidekick who was willing to follow Han anywhere, check.  To make a character something he is not and never has been just to service the story is a travesty.  Luke was always afraid, but he went to Cloud City anyway.  He didn't hide.

Lol this is only because everyone is liking it now in retrospect. People hated that film, a lot still do for reasons as dumb as the supposed evil SJW propaganda trying to take over the western world or w/e to it being an ANH rehash to a slew of different things, but just like the CoD cycle the last movie is always better than the new one and it goes on and on and on.

 

This movie is great because it goes against the grain. It reminds us why we love SW while deconstructing the movies and lore.

36 minutes ago, Bilpe said:

I respectfully disagree.  Fans called TFA derivative, yet most everyone liked it.  That's because you had familiar characters behaving in familiar ways.  Han was always the reluctant hero, check.  Leia was always the seasoned leader putting the needs of the many before her own wants, check.  Chewbacca was always the loyal sidekick who was willing to follow Han anywhere, check.  To make a character something he is not and never has been just to service the story is a travesty.  Luke was always afraid, but he went to Cloud City anyway.  He didn't hide.

Lol this is only because everyone is liking it now in retrospect. People hated that film, a lot still do for reasons as dumb as the supposed evil SJW propaganda trying to take over the western world or w/e to it being an ANH rehash to a slew of different things, but just like the CoD cycle the last movie is always better than the new one and it goes on and on and on.

 

This movie is great because it goes against the grain. It reminds us why we love SW while deconstructing the movies and lore.

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28 minutes ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

This movie is great because it goes against the grain. It reminds us why we love SW while deconstructing the movies and lore.

Lol this is only because everyone is liking it now in retrospect. People hated that film, a lot still do for reasons as dumb as the supposed evil SJW propaganda trying to take over the western world or w/e to it being an ANH rehash to a slew of different things, but just like the CoD cycle the last movie is always better than the new one and it goes on and on and on.

 

This movie is great because it goes against the grain. It reminds us why we love SW while deconstructing the movies and lore.

Nope, I checked RT.  It got a 93% from the critics and 88% from the audience.  That's an overwhelmingly positive reception.  I hate to beat a dead horse but go to medium.com and read the article.  It gives real critical analysis on why it did not deconstruct the lore but instead undermined it.

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As someone who hated TFA it was just to much fan service and nothing new for me I never understood the idea of needing to bring back the original cast I would have been happy recasting and carrying on after ROTJ the Thrawn books were meant to be an unofficial trilogy that was how Lucas sold them to the  Timothy Zahn so I wanted a new cast and those made into movies

 

TLJ has major issues and fans are mad for a reason any below is spoilers so don't read if you have not seen

 

Spoiler

Take the whole Leia superpowers thing for one then you have the whole why is Ray able to do so much with zero training its established cannon that it takes years before you can be doing anything she does in both Movies and she still has zero training after this movie

 

lets not even get into Snoke as much as I did not like TFA I waned to know more about him who was he then he goes out like a bitch 

 

plus why when you have 3 ships at your mercy and you can end the war do you say let them run and waste fuel till they run out who is leading the first order Jar Jar no you hit them with everything you have and end it 

 

plus how does the first order go from one planet and ship to have a massive fleet and being in control of half the galaxy 

 

last one for now I hate how they are treating force powers since when can Jedi/Sith stop a blaster shot in mid air like in TFA they deflect them plus the whole projecting thing I understand Rey and Kylo as Snoke played a part in it but Luke can do it all of a sudden not to mention Leia flying in space 

 

https://medium.com/@josvchoi/the-last-jedi-on-the-character-assassination-of-luke-skywalker-38fe0190d01a

 

something I agree 100% with from this link

 

This film is a big middle finger to anyone who grew up believing in Luke Skywalker. Without any good reason, it completely destroys his established character and turns him into a terrified and cowardly old man committed to dying alone wallowing in regret. By strongly contrasting Luke with the saintly Rey, and presenting her as a flawless paragon of moral perfection, the film not only makes her a distant character who’s hard to relate to, it also belittles the struggles of Luke and Anakin and all of their allies, and retroactively subverts the hopes and overall message of the OT.

 

 

In the book Anime: From Akira to Howl’s Moving Castle, author Susan J. Napier tells the story of a young girl in Japan who wrote to Hayao Miyazaki with a small complaint: she couldn’t relate to the heroes of his films, because they were too strong and perfect, and thus, distant. That unattainable ideal is honestly what Rey represents, an impossible character whose only inner conflict (and I’m being generous with the word ‘conflict’ here) is that she doesn’t know who her parents are. Over the course of two films, she has never suffered a great, life-changing loss or had to face any real moral dilemma. In fact, her personal development has been rushed as all hell because, at the end of The Force Awakens, it’s only been a couple of days since she encountered Finn and got caught up in the war. The only window for time to have passed occurs during the period after the destruction of Starkiller Base but before Rey leaves to seek out Luke. Even so, I don’t think we’re looking at a significant amount of time.

 

In all six of the pre-Disney films, Star Wars’ protagonists undergo years-long inner journeys that change and shape their characters, leading to choices that drive the narrative. Those heroes’ growth through various challenges (based upon the Joseph Campbell ‘hero’s journey’ template that Star Wars greatly popularized) shaped their inner evolution while simultaneously driving the narratives of their respective films

 

 

just another major issue with both new movies

Edited by Romanus1
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Rey is so not perfect and she's in the same place Luke was in his respective trilogy. The movie does not go ''fuck you'' to people who grew up believing in Luke; it actually counts on the audience having grown up. It's speaking to that person, the person who grew up on SW.

 

Luke is still Luke. He still has some of his humor, his moments with

R2D2, Chewie - the Falcon and Leia

but he has also changed. Time has passed, it would frankly be insulting to the audience if we're supposed to expect that this person has stayed the same as time changed. He shows a more human side and he's less of a caricature and he makes actual mistakes and has his own interesting arc. 

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This is the best Star Wars film by far. I thoroughly enjoyed every moment of it, although Leia’s Superman scene took me aback some. Every battle scene, ever quiet moment, every suspenseful scene was superbly well done.

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Film was shot beautifully expecially the third act on the mining planet.  Loved the movie, very few scenes I would have changed

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5 hours ago, Bilpe said:

Nope, I checked RT.  It got a 93% from the critics and 88% from the audience.  That's an overwhelmingly positive reception.  I hate to beat a dead horse but go to medium.com and read the article.  It gives real critical analysis on why it did not deconstruct the lore but instead undermined it.

There is a rumor that a few mad fans are intentionally review bombing RT and Metacritic. Even if that's not the case, I think it's obvious to anyone (at least people who live in the USA, if not everywhere else) that our culture has gotten more polarized since 2015. People get upset over the stupidest things.

 

But beyond that, the fact is, a lot of fans wanted the Thrawn trilogy on the screen. They wanted movies where everyone lived happily ever after. That's the real issue here. Ep 7 was laying a foundation that most fans could see was not heading towards the Thrawn trilogy, but some people still held out hope. So I think more fans were tolerant of Ep 7 because they held out hope that Ep 8 would suddenly jump back to what they were expecting.

 

5 hours ago, Romanus1 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Take the whole Leia superpowers thing for one then you have the whole why is Ray able to do so much with zero training its established cannon that it takes years before you can be doing anything she does in both Movies and she still has zero training after this movie

 

lets not even get into Snoke as much as I did not like TFA I waned to know more about him who was he then he goes out like a bitch 

 

plus why when you have 3 ships at your mercy and you can end the war do you say let them run and waste fuel till they run out who is leading the first order Jar Jar no you hit them with everything you have and end it 

 

plus how does the first order go from one planet and ship to have a massive fleet and being in control of half the galaxy 

 

last one for now I hate how they are treating force powers since when can Jedi/Sith stop a blaster shot in mid air like in TFA they deflect them plus the whole projecting thing I understand Rey and Kylo as Snoke played a part in it but Luke can do it all of a sudden not to mention Leia flying in space 

 

Spoiler

I have to address this Snoke point, because I keep seeing it pop up. This criticism makes no sense to me. We knew literally nothing about Palpatine in the OT. Hell, he didn't even get a name until RotJ if memory serves. It wasn't until Ep 1 that we got any backstory for him. So why was it okay to not have backstory for Palpatine in the OT, but it's a huge problem to not have backstory for Snoke in Ep 8? Remember, when Palpatine died we knew perhaps even less than we did about Snoke at the time of his death.

 

8 hours ago, Pickle Rick said:

 

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Have you read the Thrawn trilogy?

 

Unfortunately the actors are too old so we won't get any stories of them just after RotJsave for comics/books and other non-live-action media.

 

Yes, I have read the Thrawn trilogy, and I knew that we weren't going to get those as movies. It's time to move on.

 

Thrawn shows up in the Star Wars Rebels show, which I was talking up a while back in another thread.

 

7 hours ago, Pickle Rick said:

Luke's is a new direction though, meaning it will take some time for fans to get used to. As I said before, the fanbase was completely divided after The Empire Strikes Back as well.

 

Speaking as someone who grew up with the movies, saw them all in the cinema and has read a whole lot of the EU: I love this new direction and I think it is fitting. After my first viewing of The Last Jedi, I had to give myself a day to figure out how I felt. Almost a week and two additional viewings later, and I can wholeheartedly say that I love The Last Jedi; even if it's not perfect, it's one of the best Star Wars films there is and the first since the originals that makes me feel so amazed.

I was born just after ESB came out, so I saw the OT on VHS as a kid. I saw them in the cinema only later, when they did the THX re-releases in the mid 90's. A week ago I was talking with a fellow commuter who is a decade or two older than me, who saw the movies as they came out. He hated ESB. It made me realize, it's very different for me to watch ESB as a kid and be able to transition directly to RotJ. He had to wait 3 years to find out what happened to Han.

 

TLJ will be viewed differently once Ep 9 is out. No doubt some people will still hate it, but trilogies change how individual movies are treated.

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Just wanted to answer 2 points if you think Rey is not the typical Mary sue character  then you need to read into what that term means also the Thrawn Trilogy yeah I wanted it did I want the happy ever after maybe to a point 

 

I wanted a galaxy that had moved on and the main 3 not acting out of character take Leia the fact she hugs Han after him doing a runner for 30 years or how ever long it was its not really said in the movies the old Leia of the OT would have punched him this Leia just accepts him so not the Leia we knew and let's not even get into why the fuck she would call her son after Obi-Wan a guy she knew from her step dad and never met Luke I can get like in the EU but not her and Han would felt Obi-Wan was a old fool for most of 4

 

now back to the EU what is wrong with adapting some of those books the war did not end till Truce at bakura and yes I know there is a bunch of crappy stuff in the EU also but there is so much good stuff Mara Jade for one

 

But I will admit one thing in this the only way everyone would have been happy with this new trilogy would have been staying well away from the OT go to the Old Republic or Far in the future 

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From A.B. Guthrie Jr.'s book On Writing:

 

"If by action or word a character proves himself unscrupulous or vicious, so be it.  Allow him whatever good qualities he has, but remember, no matter the soft yet cynical assertion that to understand all is to forgive all-a son of a bitch remains a son of a bitch.  No sawdust trail for him.  No being born again.  At bottom he is what he has proven himself to be." (Bold type added by me.  This is a description of a villain but it can be used in the reverse to describe Luke.)

 

No amount of spin from Disney, the filmmakers, or the Star Wars apologists on this site can change the fact that a central character was made to act against his fundamental nature just to serve the plot.  Hey, I understand.  There was a time when I would defend anything Star Wars too, but as someone above has pointed out, I grew up.

 

Maybe the Boba Fett movie will be good and they won't change him to Saint Boba because it makes for a better story.

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15 hours ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

Rey is so not perfect and she's in the same place Luke was in his respective trilogy.

 

Vehemently disagree with this assertion, though before I explain my position I'd appreciate it if you could touch on some of the ways in which Rey's own arc has mirrored Luke's.

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1 hour ago, TheLakota said:

 

Vehemently disagree with this assertion, though before I explain my position I'd appreciate it if you could touch on some of the ways in which Rey's own arc has mirrored Luke's.

She's got the same basic makings of his caricature - a no one from nowhere who in the first film of their respective trilogy, ends up tangled in events far greater than themselves and in that they find greatness, but by the second film are ultimately at a crisis with who they are and their identity.



 

But the difference comes in where as Luke effectively discovers that yes, in the end he is someone Rey was born to no one and has no one; despite the fact that they desperately wants to believe otherwise. By the end of her second movie, much like Luke - while she has been defeated in a ay she is empowered by another.

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I feel you're reaching here.

 

Spoiler

In what way has Rey been defeated? What can she learn to grow as a person, and more importantly, why should I invest in her character when I know the story simply won't allow her to be humbled?

 

I'm merely struggling to see how the narrative ties into the Hero's Journey: there is no real progression with Rey, as she essentially ended TFA/TLJ as a naturally gifted force wielder with expert piloting/lightsaber skills despite lacking formal training. There's no growth, and despite Daisy being a good actress with amazing charisma, she can't fix lazy writing.

 

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