Save scumming

[JasseZocker]

Does save scumming really won't trophies pop? Because when you play until 1-2, leave the game, safe the game into the PS plus cloud, go into the game again and die, reload your previous save from the cloud, you can try again from 1-2. So in theory you could save scum your way through. I don't see how the devs can control If you use save scum or not.

[Helyx]

Pretty sure everyone's tested this years ago...right?

 

Surely it's not that simple. 

[MohandGamer7]

You can save scum as much as you want but the trophies won't pop (the hard and most valuable trophies). Some easy trophies like clear all zones with Bard will pop but All-chars and Coda won't. The reason behind this as the devs explained is that there is another "Hidden" save you can't upload or delete that can detect save scumming. I don't know how but it's like both saves have to match in someway which is not the case when you save scum. 

[TheDarkKratos]

Saving Scum - It sounds funny🤣

[KenjiCBZ]

Plot twist: turns out you can save scum and pop Trophies. That's why the Platinum rarity is 0.07% and not 0.01%.

[distressedjazz]

On 5/11/2024 at 8:53 PM, MohandGamer7 said:

You can save scum as much as you want but the trophies won't pop (the hard and most valuable trophies). Some easy trophies like clear all zones with Bard will pop but All-chars and Coda won't. The reason behind this as the devs explained is that there is another "Hidden" save you can't upload or delete that can detect save scumming. I don't know how but it's like both saves have to match in someway which is not the case when you save scum. 

Does this mean that if you use save scumming for previous trophies and then you do the valuable trophies without save scumming they still won't pop because your saves wouldn't match or am I misunderstanding this?

Side note: not much point me asking because I'm not gonna get the harder trophies in the game, I'm just curious XD 

[MohandGamer7]

1 hour ago, distressedjazz said:

Does this mean that if you use save scumming for previous trophies and then you do the valuable trophies without save scumming they still won't pop because your saves wouldn't match or am I misunderstanding this?

Side note: not much point me asking because I'm not gonna get the harder trophies in the game, I'm just curious XD 

No of course not! Each run is separate for one another meaning trophies won't pop after completing a run you save scummed in. But sure they'll pop if you do the requirement again in a run you don't save scum in.

[KenjiCBZ]

On 5/11/2024 at 11:20 AM, KenjiCBZ said:

Plot twist: turns out you can save scum and pop Trophies. That's why the Platinum rarity is 0.07% and not 0.01%.

Oh and I forgot to add, that Platinum achievers had tried to hide that in hopes to keep their precious Platinum rarer, but now I have exposed them. Muahahahahahah. 😈 

Edited May 13 by KenjiCBZ

[MohandGamer7]

3 hours ago, KenjiCBZ said:

Oh and I forgot to add, that Platinum achievers had tried to hide that in hopes to keep their precious Platinum rarer, but now I have exposed them. Muahahahahahah. 😈 

But all Platinum achievers got their platinum before the update that added a save feature 😂 (Not counting the last person who cheated the plat of course) 

[KenjiCBZ]

30 minutes ago, MohandGamer7 said:

But all Platinum achievers got their platinum before the update that added a save feature 😂 (Not counting the last person who cheated the plat of course) 

I didn't know they added one, I was talking about the classic PS+/USB Drive trick

[MohandGamer7]

1 hour ago, KenjiCBZ said:

I didn't know they added one, I was talking about the classic PS+/USB Drive trick

Ah I see! Before the update, closing the game will end the run with all progress. So the save file only had game settings and overall progress like Characters unlocked

[Optinooby]

On 5/11/2024 at 9:53 AM, MohandGamer7 said:

You can save scum as much as you want but the trophies won't pop (the hard and most valuable trophies). Some easy trophies like clear all zones with Bard will pop but All-chars and Coda won't. The reason behind this as the devs explained is that there is another "Hidden" save you can't upload or delete that can detect save scumming. I don't know how but it's like both saves have to match in someway which is not the case when you save scum. 

 

Im no mad programmer, but how would that even detect anything as the save is no longer there as it was overwritten. So how can an old save (which is no longer there) detect a newer save???

 

The only way logically possible i guess is something that isn't impacted by saves, and that is what detects the new save...

 

So must be some unknown online synch, a profile save or sorts that is saved to the system and has been removed from the usual backup save, or maybe something changes within the game data itself?? Maybe a save that has been downloaded has some type of value in it that signifies a downloaded save and the game detects that value??

 

Wouldn't there be a way around this by maybe always playing offline, deleting/reinstalling the game and then downloading your save or just deleting the save to be overwritten before you download your old save??

 

I'm just speculating here, but gotta be a way around that surely unless closing the game voids the trophies automatically??

 

Edited May 13 by Optinooby

[NamoPh]

2 minutes ago, Optinooby said:

 

Im no mad programmer, but how would that even detect anything as the save is no longer there as it was overwritten. So how can an old save (which is no longer there) detect a newer save???

 

The only way logically possible i guess is something that isn't impacted by saves, and that is what detects the new save...

 

So must be some unknown online synch, a profile save or sorts that is saved to the system and has been removed from the usual backup save, or maybe something changes within the game data itself?? Maybe a save that has been downloaded has some type of value in it that signifies a downloaded save and the game detects that value??

 

Wouldn't there be a way around this by maybe always playing offline, deleting/reinstalling the game and then downloading your save or just deleting the save to be overwritten before you download your old save??

 

I'm just speculating here, but gotta be a way around that surely unless closing the game voids the trophies automatically??

 

 

The dev's claim is that there's a hidden save file that's created when you quit a "valid" run, and overwriting the visible save after failing that initial valid run will cause an asynchronicity between the hidden and visible save files that will tell the game to deny you the trophy. That's my understanding of the theory anyway, but it honestly sounds like a bluff to discourage cheating, as surely we would have other examples of it in all these years if it was possible?

[Optinooby]

24 minutes ago, NamoPh said:

 

The dev's claim is that there's a hidden save file that's created when you quit a "valid" run, and overwriting the visible save after failing that initial valid run will cause an asynchronicity between the hidden and visible save files that will tell the game to deny you the trophy. That's my understanding of the theory anyway, but it honestly sounds like a bluff to discourage cheating, as surely we would have other examples of it in all these years if it was possible?

 

Could be a bluff, i've also seen official info tidbits be wrong like this, quite a few times actually. I think sometimes the official press/marketing/devs/programmers/etc sometimes have a miscommunication between themselves which leads to incorrect info being given.

 

Say it's not a bluff though, this so called 'hidden save' etc, can just be removed by staying offline and deleting the whole game data and game save before you download your save back.

 

Then when you reinstall, download your save and load in, there is no 'hidden save' so it maybe a way around it.......

 

I have no idea, just speculating. Not sure if I would ever have the patience myself to attempt this game to even test possibilities.

 

Edited May 13 by Optinooby

[MohandGamer7]

1 hour ago, NamoPh said:

 

The dev's claim is that there's a hidden save file that's created when you quit a "valid" run, and overwriting the visible save after failing that initial valid run will cause an asynchronicity between the hidden and visible save files that will tell the game to deny you the trophy. That's my understanding of the theory anyway, but it honestly sounds like a bluff to discourage cheating, as surely we would have other examples of it in all these years if it was possible?

I know It's not bluff because I tested it on alt. I got some trophies for clearing all-zones with Bard and some other characters with save scumming but then I tried an All-Characters run and the trophy didn't pop (beside one trophy that is clearing Cadence all-zones which happens to be the last character in the run). 

I then tried a Coda run with save scumming and the trophy didn't pop. Although I expected it to pop since I had some other all-zones trophies to pop but it didn't. 

 

Now in regard to deleting the game and any save, sure I didn't test that but here is my explanation: 

If the game is deleted then the hidden save should be deleted as well. So using the save you backed it up after re-downloading the game again won't match or synchronize with the new hidden save (if there is one in the 1st place because you just downloaded the game and didn't start any run). If both aren't matched or synchronized then trophies won't pop.

 

Score can be submitted to the leaderboard and be shown regardless.

 

And sure some of us asked why such a method isn't implemented in other games unless they don't care or it's hard to implement in bigger titles. 🤷

Edited May 13 by MohandGamer7