How long do you plan on letting false times stand exactly?

[imagineSM]

...but all they did was manipulate the cloud server to their advantage (I'm repeating myself). You can't hack the PS4...

 

Those people would eventually get flagged anyway, and they'd only get their flag removed if they provided proof it was legit

 

"It's called hacking on the PS3

But on PS4 according to you it's legit" - last time I checked, it's legit according to Sony if it's done on PS4, because they built their own system for people to only use their own save files.

 

Because you don't like the way they gone about their manipulation of their own save file, you're going to disregard the fact that they earned their progress to do it in the first place?

 

"PSNProfiles is doing nothing wrong by acknowledging the person as the fastest time, because as a matter of fact, they do have the fastest time whether any of us like it or not" I thought it was obvious I that I meant it referring to the PS4

 

It's classed as "hacking" by psnp.

You can use the cloud to do fallout 3 in 3 hours.

If I did that my time would be removed and I'd be classed as a hacker.

 

But I won't be classed a "hacker" if I did it on the ps4.

For all we know, psnp has labelled hundreds of legit people as hackers on the ps3.

When in reality they may have just used the cloud.

 

You're essientally saying how it's okay for psnp to have it both ways.

Just because it's on a different system.

I don't see a reason for flagging that user. He didn't hack. Abusing exploits might be cheap but I don't see any problems here.

By the way: The PS4 remains to be unhackable to this day. No Geohots.

 

A quote from my original post.

 

"He's not a hacker but his fastest time should be removed from the leaderboard.

As should the knack and infamous fastest times.

Granted they didn't cheat like the injustice guy did but their times are still false.

 

Surely there's a way for psnp to not class them a hacker and hide their false times?"

*opens the door, get in to the room and shout:*

 

If this is cheating or hacking.... so is the 9 sec plats on Sound Shape!

 

*leaves the room to go play some Hanna Montana...*

 

:popcorn: :popcorn:

 

it's not the same.

It's bullshit but it's still first trophy to last trophy.

This guy deleted his first trophy, so in reality it was 45th trophy to last trophy.

[Gildenmagier]

Surely there's a way for psnp to not class them a hacker and hide their false times?"

My 10 seconds for Sound Shapes are false too.

[Gibbo_0113]

Strong arguments on both sides. What actually is the difference between loading a save on the PS3 vs PS4. Because if they are practically the same the OP does have a point.

 

Anyway i bet there are already hackers on PS4 only the method hasn't been leaked online. Just a matter of time before they stuff up. What's annoying is that the good hackers get away with it.   

[dernop]

Strong arguments on both sides. What actually is the difference between loading a save on the PS3 vs PS4. Because if they are practically the same the OP does have a point.

the only difference is basically that the save-signing (the authentication that the save is legitimately yours, simply put) on ps4 isn't (publicly) hacked yet. so there is simply no way to use other people's saves on your ps4, which makes it - for the time being - legit, no matter what you do on the ps4.

that's why you generally can't flag ps4 games around here. it's considered "unhackable by definition"

[imagineSM]

My 10 seconds for Sound Shapes are false too.

No it's cheap but it's still first trophy to last trophy.

This guy is deleting his first trophy to get a new first trophy so his time is quicker.

the only difference is basically that the save-signing (the authentication that the save is legitimately yours, simply put) on ps4 isn't (publicly) hacked yet. so there is simply no way to use other people's saves on your ps4, which makes it - for the time being - legit, no matter what you do on the ps4.

that's why you generally can't flag ps4 games around here. it's considered "unhackable by definition"

There's no way of proving that the "hackers" saves weren't theirs either, but psnp still labels them as hackers.

When really they could have just used the cloud method.

 

It's one standard for the ps3 players and another for the folks on ps4.

 

On the ps3, psnp assumes guilt. On the PS4 psnp knows they're guilty and accept it anyway.

[Happy]

Saltiest thread i've read in a long time.

[dernop]

It's one standard for the ps3 players and another for the folks on ps4.

On the ps3, psnp assumes guilt. On the PS4 psnp knows they're guilty and accept it anyway.

i agree that there's a double-standard here, absolutely. but i'm not really sure how to resolve this, because this is a community driven page (for a niche thing, on top of that) with community rules. so basically the law around here is what most of the community members agree on, i guess.

[StrickenBiged]

Exploiting the save system is not cheating - you are gaming the system, but not actually breaking it or hacking anything. If a developer or Sony failed to anticipate people doing this, then it's their fault if some players take advantage of it in pursuit of a quick 100% time. If you started flagging those times, we'd have a lot more threads with people saying "unflag me, I didn't hack anything" and they'd be right to say so.  

 

Cheating (from a trophy hunting perspective) involves hacking the console or a save. It is an abuse which goes against what the game devs or Sony allowed to happen in the game or with the trophy/save system.  

 

If a PS3 player has discovered a legitimate method of gaming the system using cloud-save or whatever, and they get flagged as a cheater when they haven't actually cheated, then they can appeal it and provide proof that their method did not involve hacking. This has happened on a number of occasions. Here's one example - I'll let you do a search for others, use the search term "unflagged" which is usually all Sly writes before locking a thread. 

 

The current system is fair. That should be the end of it. 

i agree that there's a double-standard here, absolutely. but i'm not really sure how to resolve this, because this is a community driven page (for a niche thing, on top of that) with community rules. so basically the law around here is what most of the community members agree on, i guess.

 

It's not a double standard. The PS3 is hackable, so caution must be exercised. The PS4 is not currently known to be hackable, so no caution is necessary. PS3 players can appeal if guilt has been assumed. Provided they can prove their method, they're unflagged. 

[Suicide_Tortuga]

If the guy did everything on a save and "deleted" his first trophy to get a better time. Than its fair, he did all the work for the platinum like everyone else. Only difference is that he was smart enough to earn the longer trophies first. Does his legit 9 hour platinum affect you? Are you haunted at night not being able to sleep just cause they did something you didn't?

[imagineSM]

Exploiting the save system is not cheating - you are gaming the system, but not actually breaking it or hacking anything. If a developer or Sony failed to anticipate people doing this, then it's their fault if some players take advantage of it in pursuit of a quick 100% time. If you started flagging those times, we'd have a lot more threads with people saying "unflag me, I didn't hack anything" and they'd be right to say so.  

 

Cheating (from a trophy hunting perspective) involves hacking the console or a save. It is an abuse which goes against what the game devs or Sony allowed to happen in the game or with the trophy/save system.  

 

If a PS3 player has discovered a legitimate method of gaming the system using cloud-save or whatever, and they get flagged as a cheater when they haven't actually cheated, then they can appeal it and provide proof that their method did not involve hacking. This has happened on a number of occasions. Here's one example - I'll let you do a search for others, use the search term "unflagged" which is usually all Sly writes before locking a thread. 

 

The current system is fair. That should be the end of it. 

 

Sony do a lot of things people don't agree with.

Just because Sony enable cheating doesn't mean PSNP should too.

If the guy did everything on a save and "deleted" his first trophy to get a better time. Than its fair, he did all the work for the platinum like everyone else. Only difference is that he was smart enough to earn the longer trophies first. Does his legit 9 hour platinum affect you? Are you haunted at night not being able to sleep just cause they did something you didn't?

 

Nah I can beat his time literally when ever I want.

His time is nothing in terms of competition, if I cheated just like him.

I'd crush his time.

 

 

People here are enabling cheating; I guess if I can't beat them I'll join them and just crush everyone.

The people who choose to cheat to win will lose in dramatic fashion to me.

[StrickenBiged]

Sony do a lot of things people don't agree with.

Just because Sony enable cheating doesn't mean PSNP should too.

 

PSNP has nothing to do with how Sony runs things, so it's not enabling anything. 

 

If you have a problem with the way Sony does things, you should contact them. 

 

This whole thread is basically you just saying "I think it's cheating", whereas other players would consider it fair-game to exploit systems that Sony or the game developers have failed to anticipate. You have some fair points, but if we did things your way there'd be many more people upset that their clever method of obtaining really fast times wasn't recognised by PSNP. 

 

If you have a problem with it you are free to go start your own trophy site, by the way.

[imagineSM]

i agree that there's a double-standard here, absolutely. but i'm not really sure how to resolve this, because this is a community driven page (for a niche thing, on top of that) with community rules. so basically the law around here is what most of the community members agree on, i guess.

 

Ahh dude there is.

But if I was you I'd go ahead and do tlou man

These people have no problem with the cheating, hell some are trying to say I'm salty because I don't like cheaters.

If these guys wanna play dirty, lets play dirty and obliterate them.

 

You're right. Their rules, their hypocrisy but it's their land.

When in Rome do as the Romans do.

Just keep evidence though, because no doubt there will come a day where they'll want to label you a hacker.

[Suicide_Tortuga]

Nah I can beat his time literally when ever I want.

His time is nothing in terms of competition, if I cheated just like him.

I'd crush his time.

 

 

People here are enabling cheating; I guess if I can't beat them I'll join them and just crush everyone.

The people who choose to cheat to win will lose in dramatic fashion to me.

Actions speak louder than words, right now you just seem like a jealous little kid throwing a tantrum.

Its not cheating if you save your own save. If it's such a big deal for you than go talk to Sony about it. Just deal with it, his time will stay there cause it's legit. Move on

[imagineSM]

PSNP has nothing to do with how Sony runs things, so it's not enabling anything. 

 

If you have a problem with the way Sony does things, you should contact them. 

 

This whole thread is basically you just saying "I think it's cheating", whereas other players would consider it fair-game to exploit systems that Sony or the game developers have failed to anticipate. You have some fair points, but if we did things your way there'd be many more people upset that their clever method of obtaining really fast times wasn't recognised by PSNP. 

 

If you have a problem with it you are free to go start your own trophy site, by the way.

 

I don't see the problem with just self moderating our own little community that we have going on.

"Sony may accept exploits, but we don't." 

I'd totally make my own site if I had the money.

 

I don't have the coding skill or 10k laying around to do so though.

Actions speak louder than words, right now you just seem like a jealous little kid throwing a tantrum.

Its not cheating if you save your own save. If it's such a big deal for you than go talk to Sony about it. Just deal with it, his time will stay there cause it's legit. Move on

 

 

Jealous of what exactly?

Seriously,,, tell me what I'm supposed to be jealous of?

You're basically saying I'm jealous because I lack the skill to auto pop trophies. k.

[StrickenBiged]

I don't see the problem with just self moderating our own little community that we have going on.

"Sony may accept exploits, but we don't." 

I'd totally make my own site if I had the money.

 

I don't have the coding skill or 10k laying around to do so though.

 

It is moderated, just not in the way you want, hence my suggestion. 

[imagineSM]

It is moderated, just not in the way you want, hence my suggestion. 

I could literally get fallout 3 in 3 hours via the cloud.

You gonna tell me I wouldn't get flagged and deemed a hacker if I didn't have evidence?

[Satoshi Ookami]

inb4 Aela does it legit in 8 hours just for fun

Edited October 16, 2015 by Satoshi Ookami

[imagineSM]

inb4 Aela does it legit in 8 hours just for fun

 

8 hours is impossible.

with auto popping though, sure.

[StrickenBiged]

I could literally get fallout 3 in 3 hours via the cloud.

You gonna tell me I wouldn't get flagged and deemed a hacker if I didn't have evidence?

 

You would probably get flagged, but provided you could explain your method in a way which is commensurate with your trophy log, it is overwhelmingly likely that you would be unflagged. In my experience, the policy here is not to maintain a flag where there is reasonable doubt about the flag's validity. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by StrickenBiged

[dernop]

It's not a double standard. The PS3 is hackable, so caution must be exercised. The PS4 is not currently known to be hackable, so no caution is necessary. PS3 players can appeal if guilt has been assumed. Provided they can prove their method, they're unflagged.

i should have chosen my words more carefully, sorry for that. i mostly meant that there is some kind of double-standard with _some people_ when it comes to that.

they immediately scream "hacker" on a ps3 game, but say "nah, it was a glitch or something, get over it" if it's a ps4 game.

i didn't mean to generalize about the whole psnp community or the service itself, don't get me wrong!

It is moderated, just not in the way you want, hence my suggestion.

by the way, do we actually have some kind of community rule-set or something? i guess it would be better and "more tolerated" if the rules that apply around here, would actually be transparent and if you could simply look them up. otherwise people come just ranting about how it's not moderated or everyone just does as he pleases.

basically an "official" psnp trophy rule book or guidelines, what exactly is legit and what is not. perhaps this would minimize these kinds of questions/discussions?

[imagineSM]

You would probably get flagged, but provided you could explain your method in a way which is commensurate with your trophy log, it is overwhelmingly likely that you would be unflagged. In my experience, the policy here is not to maintain a flag where there is reasonable doubt about the flag's validity. 

 

It shits on the people who runned it legitimately though.

I have a guy on my friendslist who did run it legitimately.

And now I get to shit all over his hundreds of hours practice because of "the cloud"

 

The cloud... that lets shit speed runners pretend they're the best.

[StrickenBiged]

by the way, do we actually have some kind of community rule-set or something? i guess it would be better and "more tolerated" if the rules that apply around here, would actually be transparent and if you could simply look them up. otherwise people come just ranting about how it's not moderated or everyone just does as he pleases.

basically an "official" psnp trophy rule book or guidelines, what exactly is legit and what is not. perhaps this would minimize these kinds of questions/discussions?

 

It's a simple rule AFAIK - Hacking is not allowed.

 

Anything else is fine. (Feel free to pin that.  )

[dernop]

The cloud... that lets shit speed runners pretend they're the best.

not the best, but the fastest!

and most resourceful in using the given, legitimate possibilities to their advantage for reaching their goal.

edit: i wonder how long it's gonna take until this gets locked, btw.

Edited October 16, 2015 by dernop

[StrickenBiged]

It shits on the people who runned it legitimately though.

I have a guy on my friendslist who did run it legitimately.

And now I get to shit all over his hundreds of hours practice because of "the cloud"

 

The cloud... that lets shit speed runners pretend they're the best.

 

So what? If we flagged your trophies, you would be upset that your ingenious method for obtaining the 3 hour time was "shit on", as you put it. Your friend would have to get over it.

 

Personally, I would applaud you and say "well done, that's clever, I'd never have thought of that". But that's just me. Other opinions may vary. 

 

Edit: And, as has already been mentioned, popping trophies in quick succession is not speed running. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by StrickenBiged

[imagineSM]

not the best, but the fastest!

and most resourceful in using the given, legitimate possibilities to their advantage for reaching their goal.

edit: i wonder how long it's gonna take until this gets locked, btw.

Not even most resourceful, it's literally the cheapest way to get the fastest time.

You may as well say that autopopping sound shapes is just players being the most resourceful.

 

It's not, it's just them being cheap.

You can literally take a year to get the platinum but actually get the plat in 3 hours.