How long do you plan on letting false times stand exactly?

[dernop]

Personally, I would applaud you and say "well done, that's clever, I'd never have thought of that". But that's just me. Other opinions may vary.

hehe, that's also a thought that came to mind immediately! in the end, doing it in that amount of time is even MORE work than doing it legit.

you have to play everything yourself anyways plus have to do some serious, strategically well planned save management!

[Suicide_Tortuga]

Jealous of what exactly?

Seriously,,, tell me what I'm supposed to be jealous of?

You're basically saying I'm jealous because I lack the skill to auto pop trophies. k.

Your clearly jealous being the you came to the forum just to specifically call this person out.

Your main problem is with Sony not with PSNP. If you don't like the rules here or they don't fit your "standards" then just leave and go to other trophy site. Seeing how your causing unnecessary problems I doubt you'll be missed here.

[StrickenBiged]

Your main problem is with Sony not with PSNP. If you don't like the rules here or they don't fit your "standards" then just leave and go to other trophy site. Seeing how your causing unnecessary problems I doubt you'll be missed here.

 

Don't be so quick to discourage people from being part of PSNP's awesome community dude! It's just a difference of opinion. Those are allowed! 

 

I'd hardly call this thread "causing problems". He's just new here and hasn't had the time to learn what this community considers "cheating".  

[Suicide_Tortuga]

Don't be so quick to discourage people from being part of PSNP's awesome community dude! It's just a difference of opinion. Those are allowed! 

 

I'd hardly call this thread "causing problems". He's just new here and hasn't had the time to learn what this community considers "cheating".

Considering that it has been explained to him by multiple people that cloud save is allowed and not cheathing. The OP chooses not to listen to reason and stick to his own logic. Thread should've been ended on the first page. If he were to choose to leave, it would be his lost.

[Aela]

I'd just like to point out that imagineSM is an alternative account of someone who has attained the Injustice EU platinum

 

This is a person who is rather fond of speed-running, and, in this case, finds it unfair that a player has obtained fastest achiever status by utilising a method that isn't exactly "legitimate" in terms of trophy completion time

 

I agree that this isn't cheating, in terms of actually attaining the trophies, however the completion time is anything but legitimate

 

I couldn't care about completion times - however from a standpoint of a trophy speed-runner, not being able to attain the fastest achiever due to an illegitimate completion time could be rather annoying

 

I'm not exactly for getting this user removed from the leaderboard, because as I said, I couldn't care, however I felt the need to point things out if people are thinking imagineSM is some ignorant that doesn't know what they're talking about

Edited October 16, 2015 by Aela

[Shadiochao]

I do see your point. Thanks to cloud saving, they now have their trophies in an impossible order. That's generally something that gets you flagged around here, so if this wasn't done on PS4 there's no doubt they'd have been removed by now. There's no real way to differentiate between hacking and cloud save abuse on the older systems. But because it was PS4, we can safely say there was no actual cheating involved.

 

I guess it's not really fair for people who got a fast time with skill alone. Though I'm not sure if I agree with removing people who simply used their console's features to their advantage.

[dernop]

i just want to quickly throw something in here: we're talking about cloud saving the whole time, but this is something you can (and always could) perfectly do with USB save backups as long as the game saves in question are not locked. and locked saves are more the exception from the rule, especially so on ps4 as far as i noticed.

for example, the souls games ALWAYS had locked saves (demons souls, dark souls 1+2) on ps3, but bloodborne and the darksouls2:sotfs for ps4 weren't locked, iirc.

[Sly Ripper]

Manipulating your own save isn't cheating.

 

I'll guarantee anyone who has the karma trophies on Fallout 3 did it.

 

You have to draw the line somewhere, you could even class Sound Shapes as cheating.

[Matto_lsi]

So the argument has again come down to 'ps3 is hackable', yet the example I gave earlier in the thread does not fall into that category.  I've seen numerous people who earned trophies on a second or friends ps3 and due to a known and strange syncing issue, all their timestamps for those trophies were from the same minute.  So it looks like they got hours worth of trophies in seconds, but they didn't.  Even when these people explain what happened, they are still flagged, the community still calls them cheaters, and they are guilty until proven innocent.  So all the arguments in here claiming its only hackers that are flagged on PS3 is BS.  I've seen other threads from people upset and confused for being called hackers and being treated like shit on the forums when they start a thread.  So if anyone with questionable trophies on PS3 is automatically guilty no matter what, then there is a double standard between PS3 and PS4 on this site.  Also, hacking is a very specific set of actions, and if that's your only definition of a PS3 cheater, then all the people who simply downloaded save games from the internet and launched them in the early days before Sony mandated saves be tied to an individual account are not cheaters.... but they are.  There's numerous ways to cheat, but there's also numerous ways things can go wrong.  Even on PS4 there's a well known issue where downloading 2 digital games at the same time can cause one's trophy list to unlock when playing the other game.  I believe this was patched, but there's plenty of games out there that people have trophies for that they didn't earn.  They are neither hackers nor cheaters, but they do have trophies they did not earn legitimately.  If that issue came up on PS3 all those players would be banned and considered guilty.  So there needs to be some middle ground between PS3 and PS4.  It can't be 'anything goes' on PS4 just because the save data or trophy list can't be hacked (yet).  And it also can't be 'everyone on PS3 is guilty' whenever there's a slight discrepancy in timestamps, especially when a valid excuse is given to explain why.

 

How this relates to the original topic?  Manipulating save data, even your own, to then manipulate your trophy list, simply because it's not hacking, is still not legit and could be considered cheating in some peoples eyes.  I was pointing out that it's not only hacking PS3 saves/trophies that gets people flagged on here, so anything questionable on PS4 should be at least looked at and not immediately dismissed just because its PS4.

[thegirlruka]

I can't be more agree with this statement man. Really. I tried time ago to report him but they did nothing because they don't consider this cheating, just a tool that the company didn't even bother to fix. 

 

 

Dear Sly Ripper... this is not even close to be fair... I know this game like my hand... and I did an insane speedrun of 6 days 18 hours on this game and I am just number 2. For me. I own this WR and I claim this publicly.

 

But hey, I understand you can't do more than you do... when the company does not care about this and they didn't even bother to fix those glitches, we can't do anything. In old days, trophies (specially hard trophies) had some kind of value (usually respect for the player who earned them) but now...

 

PS3: save resigning (no comments about this... we already know what is this and why makes PS3 a waste of time place to play legit)

PS4: Shareplay (to get trophies for people) and cloud glitching (to ruin even speedrunners work)

 

Trophies were a great add back in time... now they are just a tool to sell games (the more time that pass, the easier they make trophy lists) and without any value for all the problems mentioned above that the company didn't even care about. And with reasons of course... you let this operations to occur and you'll be selling more, because then a lot of "gamers" will buy a specific game knowing they will able to get the 100% even if they are lack of skill. Just sad... but well... just deal with it. We accepted some terms when we made our accounts and we are not the owners of the service, so we can't do any changes.

Your fastest plat is a sound shapes autopop. Doesn't that go against everything you said in this post?

[er_campanario]

Your fastest plat is a sound shapes autopop. Doesn't that go against everything you said in this post?

 

No. I didn't . I meant Cloud glitching, not cloud save. It's an autopop in games that have that feature, which I dislike them a bit. Another problem maybe, yeah I could do that in SS, but also I could do 4 times Injustice and in WR's times. Look at the VITA version. So that's a proof of how much I value the "try hard" quote. 

[starcrunch061]

So the argument has again come down to 'ps3 is hackable', yet the example I gave earlier in the thread does not fall into that category.  I've seen numerous people who earned trophies on a second or friends ps3 and due to a known and strange syncing issue, all their timestamps for those trophies were from the same minute.  So it looks like they got hours worth of trophies in seconds, but they didn't.  Even when these people explain what happened, they are still flagged, the community still calls them cheaters, and they are guilty until proven innocent...

...

...How this relates to the original topic?  Manipulating save data, even your own, to then manipulate your trophy list, simply because it's not hacking, is still not legit and could be considered cheating in some peoples eyes.  I was pointing out that it's not only hacking PS3 saves/trophies that gets people flagged on here, so anything questionable on PS4 should be at least looked at and not immediately dismissed just because its PS4.

I can only take so much of this.

1) the OP said that this person didn't hack. It has nothing to do with being on PS4 vs. PS3.

2) people manipulate save files all the time for the purpose of trophy hunting. Whether it's to get both endings in Dark Souls immediately, or to plat HDN:Victory in one playthrough, they are manipulating their save files.

3) this isn't a court of law, with jurors or whatnot. If a potential hacker pleads his/her case on a public forum, of course others have the right to share their opinion on the respective guilt. AFAIK those opinions have no bearing on the site's decision. For example, my own opinion is that this thread is little more than an attempt to find a loophole to explain potential hacking. Again, that's just my opinion.

Edited October 16, 2015 by starcrunch061

[imagineSM]

Considering that it has been explained to him by multiple people that cloud save is allowed and not cheathing. The OP chooses not to listen to reason and stick to his own logic. Thread should've been ended on the first page. If he were to choose to leave, it would be his lost.

 

No you're the one guilty of ignorance here.

I fully understand it's not classed as cheating, I also completely understand that Sony classes this as legit.

I however do not agree with that, that's all.

It removes all skill from speed running.

I'll beat the fastest time with saves just to prove a point.

I won't be proud of it though, I can get the fastest time legit; I don't need to manipulate saves.

But I have no choice but to manipulate if I want the actual fastest time.

 

You're saying I'm sticking to my own logic and you're accusing me on not listening; but you're the only one guilty of this.

If you actually read my replies dude, you'd see that I fully grasp the fact that Sony and PSNP do not class it as cheating.

I disagree though; it's a subjective matter, it's okay to disagree.

 

I also said, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" So I will be doing it.

Like I said, just to prove a point.

 

Next time I'd appreciate it if you didn't accuse me with whatever buzz words you can manage to conjure up.

Edited October 16, 2015 by imagineSM

[starcrunch061]

I also said, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" So I will be doing it.

Like I said, just to prove a point.

 

And like I said (and this will be my last post on this topic):

 

 

For example, my own opinion is that this thread is little more than an attempt to find a loophole to explain potential hacking. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by starcrunch061

[StrickenBiged]

It's getting silly now. 

 

Look, the line has to be drawn somewhere. 

 

PSNP has decided to draw the line at manipulating code (i.e. hacking), reassigning saves and whatnot, because it is an objective line that has to be crossed. 

 

If someone can get the trophies to pop quickly by just being smart with their saves and manipulating their list without having to go "under the hood" and play with the way the game, save file or PlayStation console is coded, then no matter how shitty it might be to some people, other people will take pride in having figured out the loopholes. It's subjective opinion whether it's cheating or not at this point, so a line shouldn't be drawn in this grey area in my view. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by StrickenBiged

[imagineSM]

It's getting silly now. 

 

Look, the line has to be drawn somewhere. 

 

PSNP has decided to draw the line at manipulating code (i.e. hacking), reassigning saves and whatnot, because it is an objective line that has to be crossed. 

 

If someone can get the trophies to pop quickly by just being smart with their saves and manipulating their list without having to go "under the hood" and play with the way the game, save file or PlayStation console is coded, then no matter how shitty it might be to some people, other people will take pride in having figured out the loopholes. It's subjective opinion whether it's cheating or not at this point, so a line shouldn't be drawn in this grey area in my view. 

 

Yeah I disagree, I do not like save manipulation.

But it's Slys site; he can do what he wants,

His house, his rules.

When in Rome do as the romans.

 

I'll be a Roman soon.

I've actually really enjoyed the debate though, it's been great.

Thanks for the interesting points.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Edited October 16, 2015 by imagineSM

[StrickenBiged]

[snippy snip]

 

I agree with you that save manipulation and deleting trophy lists is kinda "dirty". I would never do it personally.

 

But that's a personal opinion and a site like this shouldn't, in my view, take a stand on something which can come down to a difference of opinion in this grey area. Especially not if it wants to be inclusive and welcome as many trophy hunters as possible. 

[imagineSM]

I agree with you that save manipulation and deleting trophy lists is kinda "dirty". I would never do it personally.

 

But that's a personal opinion and a site like this shouldn't, in my view, take a stand on something which can come down to a difference of opinion in this grey area. Especially not if it wants to be inclusive and welcome as many trophy hunters as possible. 

 

Sure.

I get that.

[Razza]

Damn there's so much rage in a single thread. It seems like this discussion is just going around in circles

[StrickenBiged]

Damn there's so much rage in a single thread. It seems like this discussion is just going around in circles

 

I think it's just strong opinions. 

 

No one takes these little coloured nubbins of virtual recognition that seriously... do they?

[thegirlruka]

Damn there's so much rage in a single thread. It seems like this discussion is just going around in circles

That tends to happen when people use alt accounts to post things. They don't care if their alt accounts get banned because they still have their main accounts.

[JapanimeGamer]

page 1 of this thread:

 

He cheated for his fastest time.

He's a cheater with a false time.

Page 4 of this thread:

 

I fully understand it's not classed as cheating, I also completely understand that Sony classes this as legit.

Falsely accusing someone of doing something is not good, but failing to apologise afterwards is worse.

Edited October 16, 2015 by JapanimeGamer

[Daniel_Shadow170]

I logged in just to say this is the saddest topic i've ever seen here worth quite a few laughs gg keep it up. Oh also it's not cheating if ps4 does it.

[Leo Leopold Leon III]

this topic gave me cancer and since I only have 6 months to live I'll say this
someone did something legit but didn't sync the trophies, and then used the cloud to use his save to have a better time overall...and that's cheating...we have come far as a species I'll give you that...

[TheYuriG]

Lets get back to the definition of cheating.
 

Full Definition of CHEAT
transitive verb

1
:  to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud


2
:  to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice


3
:  to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>

1- is impossible to beat his time? No.
2- did he influence or lead someone with this? No.
3- Did...? No.
 
Is it possible to repeat what he has done and possibly repeat that faster? Yes. This is the whole point of speedrunning. Of course the guy would get flagged on PS3, but he did it smart, so what can you do? Cry him a river about it.
 
Fastest achievers are meant to people who do pre-planning over trophies. Do you want to remove everyone else who also played a certain game on another account or system because they aren't legit as they have already previous knowledge?
 

This is a person who is rather fond of speed-running, and, in this case, finds it unfair that a player has obtained fastest achiever status by utilising a method that isn't exactly "legitimate" in terms of trophy completion time
 
I couldn't care about completion times - however from a standpoint of a trophy speed-runner, not being able to attain the fastest achiever due to an illegitimate completion time could be rather annoying

He can achieve the fastest achiever if he does the same. The completion time is legitimate as the trophies popped at the times they did, the only difference is that the trophy times aren't representing the time spent on the game itself. 
 

I do see your point. Thanks to cloud saving, they now have their trophies in an impossible order. There's no real way to differentiate between hacking and cloud save abuse on the older systems. But because it was PS4, we can safely say there was no actual cheating involved.

Trophies are not in an impossible order, he done them all as he should have, but they popped too quick.
PS4 trophies are auto screenshotted upon achieve, there is a way to prove they are real.
 

this is not even close to be fair
For me. I own this WR and I claim this publicly.
 
But hey, I understand you can't do more than you do... when the company does not care about this and they didn't even bother to fix those glitches, we can't do anything. In old days, trophies (specially hard trophies) had some kind of value (usually respect for the player who earned them) but now...

Trophies were a great add back in time... now they are just a tool to sell games (the more time that pass, the easier they make trophy lists) and without any value for all the problems mentioned above that the company didn't even care about. And with reasons of course... you let this operations to occur and you'll be selling more, because then a lot of "gamers" will buy a specific game knowing they will able to get the 100% even if they are lack of skill. Just sad... but well... just deal with it. We accepted some terms when we made our accounts and we are not the owners of the service, so we can't do any changes.

Is it possible for you to repeat the same things he did, so it's fair, you just chose not to do the same and/or didn't know how to.

Sly could remove it if he wanted to, he just didn't find a strong enough reason for it so far. The game doesn't have a glitch, it was exploited, which is different.

Are you saying that his trophies don't have any value or do not deserve any respect just because he did it faster with save scumming? You are just salty. If you don't like the 'new games' because they are too easy, don't play them, play the old hard games instead. I find it ridiculous that you put gamers between quotation marks. Does this method makes anyone less gamer than others? I thought gamers are people who played games.

Also, lack of skill? If he beaten it, he had the skill for it. Unless you are implying he did it through SharePlay, but unless you have any proof about it, you are just being salty for being second place.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The whole argument here is retarded, this is impossible to stop. What if the guy did the exact same thing with a larger time closer to legit, then people keep beating that time with a smaller one by 1 minute, when it would be possible to cross the line between what was 'legit' and what wasn't?

 

Also, what could stop me to have 2 PS4s and let one of the selfboosting with an alternate controller (or another person, whatever) while I do all the rest of the trophies on the other PS4? That way I would have cut the whole online time from the platinum and I would still be legit about it, since I did all there was there to do.

 

Guess I'll be doing The Binding Of Isaac [EU] through save scumming as well just to get the salty tears rolling across the internet. Cry me a salt river, people.

Edited October 16, 2015 by TheYuriG