Can You Opt Out of the Leaderboard?

[DaivRules]

19 minutes ago, EqualityEarth said:

but as I’ve heard, it will come off in time

Playing delisted games doesn’t take you off the leaderboard as I keep reading you inferring.
 

Earning trophies that are unobtainable because the required online component of a trophy has been shut down gets you taken off the leaderboard. 
 

It seems you’re entirely confused on what is getting people removed. 

[EqualityEarth]

Just now, DaivRules said:

Playing delisted games doesn’t take you off the leaderboard as I keep reading you inferring.
 

Earning trophies that are unobtainable because the required online component of a trophy has been shut down gets you taken off the leaderboard. 
 

It seems you’re entirely confused on what is getting people removed. 

My understanding of that particular system leaves much to be desired. I’m not sure what exactly feeds into it to inform a moderator. I’ve seen timestamps as a common citation, which I gotta say it takes a special kind of no-lifer to customize timestamps. I know I platinumed Remember Me around 5:00 in the morning and that’s the last thing I’m afraid of being condemned for.

[Omni_Vocal]

if your up to naughty stuff they will find you .. 

if you cant finish a game because its hard or offline is gone then just hide it or own up to yourself and say i cant finish it 

i still have my crash CTR and crash 1 to finish - maybe one day just the time trials stress me hahaha ? 

time trials make me MAD hahaha

[Rally-Vincent---]

6 hours ago, Otonio_Bruno said:

That would skew a lot of game rarities here in PSNProfiles. Opt-out is fine, that wouldn't affect much. Opt-in though would severely damage the accuracy of many stats.

 

Why? The site would still calculate all of its statistics, just the leaderboard would only show those who opt to participate in it.

[B1rvine]

The leaderboards, along with other features, are designed to stay competitive with PSNP’s competition. They’re likely not going anywhere.

 

58 minutes ago, EqualityEarth said:

My understanding of that particular system leaves much to be desired. I’m not sure what exactly feeds into it to inform a moderator.

-

[staff] are quite divided from what I’ve read.

There’s sections dedicated to informing you about the leaderboard rules and how people are removed. Bottom line : if you play a game “normally” you’ll be fine.

 

The staff are generally cohesive and work well with each other, but we all have differing opinions on various matters, of course, like anyone would. 

[Property_Damage]

Just pop the Big Leagues trophy in black ops 2 If you havent already done so before december 2015 and youll be fine

[EqualityEarth]

2 hours ago, Omni_Vocal said:

if you’re up to naughty stuff they will find you .. 

if you cant finish a game because its hard or online is gone then just hide it or own up to yourself and say i cant finish it 

i still have my crash CTR and crash 1 to finish - maybe one day just the time trials stress me hahaha  

time trials make me MAD hahaha

*Off Topic but have to say*
 

Crash totally lived up to its name—insane. The one trial I couldn’t do myself was the DLC level. That’s where friends come in ?. Just like how I had to do his FFX thunder plain 200 lightning dodges and he had to do my calm lands chocobo race. Friends for the win.

Anything speedrun related is going to be a bottleneck, unless it’s that generous 15 hours to reach and beat KH1 World of Chaos. So glad CTR has 0 online trophies.
Fun fact for anyone who missed the Portal 2 platinum, the online was not even for beating the campaign online, or in a speedrun, or anything at all like those tricky feats. It was literally for repeating the tutorial (yes you read that right, the Tutorial) 3 times just to access the ring command and hug your partner. How easy would it have been to change a trophy like that into just hugging your local partner 3 different times? That hardly lowers the “skill ceiling” for the 100%. Instead we shame people for starting a game 10 years after launch.
It’s another reason why, in addition to the bottom million 1 bronze profiles, and the Ratalaika games, that the leaderboard is a joke in its current form. I could potentially show interest in playing “clean” with entire backlog if PSNP had its own reassigned values for the games based on their difficulty level (reported on trophy guides). Sales for shovelware games and their congestion of the rankings (as well as easiest games, and eclipsing a more interesting “fastest platinum”) would plummet even though on PSN these games are technically pure gold.

For the record, games that are difficult to complete (let’s say like Devil May Cry, ibb & obb, Q*bert Rebooted), and by extension their trophies that are difficult to earn, do not fall within this topic. This topic is primarily concerned with the taboo workarounds that a player will use when thwarted by out-of-the-box factors which preclude a 100%, and why a fanmade website upholds the taboos of the SEN. Yes I went off topic then told everybody to not ?‍♂️ . I won’t silence anyone or lock this though, I’m not that type of guy. Hacking around glitches is not even a Plan B, more like a Plan Z, if a game gets no patch in 10 years time. That’s pretty much when I can’t stand the <100%. Us Nintendo veterans aren’t even counting trophies. We just want to fill the progress bar.

 

50 minutes ago, Gamehelp said:

 

I didn't mean hide trophy lists individually, I meant make the entire trophy list private..

 

Also, if random people adding you is what you're concerned about, then disable their ability to send you messages and friend requests inside PlayStation Account Management?

Again I can’t trace the confusion. I thought it was a simple concept to be public on PSN and merely filter out what PSNP doesn’t like, but just on PSNP. The problem with hiding an entire profile is it’s equivalent to shadowbanning. PSNP is where you can find other players through your common games (like different works on TVTropes through their common tropes), and ask them their strategy for the game as a whole or a single trophy. I’d love to know how this guy got his glitch trophy (I know he’s in the UK, and I know about this issue, I just wonder why that 9 year gap because that indicates he had the same problem with DLC as most of everyone else) and I even messaged him (no reply). If you’re that invisible (from recent players, to last achievers)...you can hardly say a removed ranking still lets you use the rest of the site.

Edited July 18, 2020 by EqualityEarth
Damn autocorrect

[DaivRules]

1 hour ago, EqualityEarth said:

This topic is primarily concerned with the taboo workarounds that a player will use when thwarted by out-of-the-box factors which preclude a 100%, and why a fanmade website upholds the taboos of the SEN.

This is so vague it’s impossible to address it directly without making assumptions about what you’re implying. 
 

Again, I believe this falls into confusion on your part. 
 

If you want to bring up specific examples of what you’re taking about, maybe some of us could start to understand your actual concern and what it has to do (or not) with the Sony Entertainment Network. 

[EqualityEarth]

55 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

This is so vague it’s impossible to address it directly without making assumptions about what you’re implying. 
 

Again, I believe this falls into confusion on your part. 
 

If you want to bring up specific examples of what you’re taking about, maybe some of us could start to understand your actual concern and what it has to do (or not) with the Sony Entertainment Network. 

Apologies. I assumed I had already specified in earlier posts.

 

I have read the sections on the policies exhaustively for the sake of my own clarity, hence the title of the thread, which I hoped would be its own tl;dr...it was after clarifying that my plans are not kosher with PSNP that I wondered if there a is way to preemptively step down from a leaderboard I neither cared nor minded to be on. Some disagree, but I must reassert that the leaderboard remains the central cause of the conflicts (including first/fastest/recent achievers), for it is precisely what invokes fairness. If that request is considered cowardice, then ok, I never got away with being considered normal. I'm after whatever the site facilitates.

 

Here's what PSNP doesn't like.

-Using Account Switcher Apps on PSVITA. It is Fascinating what people have created on and shared on GitHub for the VITA. It takes me back to Project M (Brawl mod) and SDRemix (Melee mod). Amazing fixes and features abound for the VITA. Hesitated to really boot up any games yet though. Yes I read about the email trick. The things people will do to keep their halo...

-Accessing independent servers restoring online game components. Another example of people helping each other because the developer abandoned it.

-Using a trophy unlocker app to hack glitched trophies. I don't defend this one, because the fun is earning the 100%, not clicking for it. Beast Quest (among others where the glitch was unfortunately on their respective "last lousy 1%") eventually got a patch, so I've resolved that developer fixes for the other games are well worth the wait.

-Pirating digital-only games no longer available for purchase. I won't even consider game sharing; it's dangerous before the fact and threads about it are obviously deleted/blocked.

 

Here's what they do like.

-Forgoing games you don't have access to without exploits.

-Hiding games you don't want to keep on record, whether it was possible to complete or not.

So, Rebel Mode hereby engaged.

 

To simplify, if and when I get around to any game with this, there comes a flag. By itself, based on what I've read, that's so not terrible to me, and I would just ignore it if that's all that happens. What I'm really afraid of, is if after a flag, does More happen? Do you keep getting messaged by staff until you reply? Do you lose any other site features? Can you still write a guide and answer other people's questions? I'm not asking for permission to cheat. I'm asking, can I get it over with, and whether or not you are left alone once you're off the grid and make no attempt to come back? If it truly is for the single faceted consequence that's come up so far, then I can stop worrying about it completely. I hope I've left no vagueries in my wake. I take a thing too seriously up until I'm comfortable enough not to.

In regards to the SEN, PSNP might as well be one with it. I was initially under the impression that PSNP was a more laissez-faire space, that would go so far as to explain how to use CFW, find out there's a disc out there for a gone game, distribute delisted DLC, fix the unobtainables, and even provide store links like PSDeals...until I gathered how very important the point chasing and accounting was to the staff. I knew something was off as soon as i saw that boosting threads were prohibited (unlike playstationtrophies.com, where you can wait for a reply) in favor of game sessions (which no one else will notice unless you are in the same time zone and access the site at the same time. I hope people have had success with them nonetheless, it must be working if it's still there). I can go on about the different apps, but no other site competes with PSNP.

 

Golden Response = "Hello EqualityEarth, FYI, you're no longer on the leaderboard. Have fun with the rest of PSNP. Peace." OR "You should have posted in Request Site Features. Plz donate."

 

P.S. The joke is on me now, I just saw that the Full Version of YaPSNApp is only 99 cents. I was a rabble-rouser for nothing.

[B1rvine]

1 hour ago, EqualityEarth said:

snip

 

I'm not sure exactly what you disagree with specifically or what you're planning on doing.

 

For the most part, PSNP follows Sony's guidelines, but there are a few exceptions. If you use CFW, you risk having your account completely removed from even being tracked on PSNP whatsoever.

 

Otherwise, if you break any other leaderboard rules, you'll get flags if they're reported by other members (and you've probably painted a bullseye on yourself from people reading this thread). If you have any approved flags, nothing happens other than leaderboard removal, and you'll still have access to the all other features of the site.  However, you will see a box if you haven't hidden your flagged games, or have more than three flagged games, similar to the one listed here, and it never goes away. Note a flag doesn't mean you're necessarily a "cheater" just that you didn't unlock trophies naturally.

 

Most of the things you mention such as custom firmware, outside programs, pirating; all of that obviously isn't wanted for obvious reasons. The sole exception -- 3rd party servers -- we as gamers value being able to play games to their full extent, imagine that. With that said, there's rules to keep everything as fair and safe as possible. So yes, PSNP generally follows Sony's TOS. We don't want to promote things that may get people banned by Sony etc.

 

Regarding boosting sessions, they simply make threads obsolete, and are vastly superior to threads, and clutter from threads really isn't necessary. You can easily sort sessions by game, join one, and request the time be moved if you can't make the original proposed time, and most of the time people are accommodating. Some of them are "forever sessions" that essentially kept getting pushed back forever and lets you know the general list of people who are interested if they haven't left, and are better than threads in this regard (since people can't leave threads, but can leave sessions). Some are "open sessions" where there's no set time, and is figured out once there's enough people. There's zero need for a thread if boosting sessions are used correctly, and we don't want the forums to be one boosting thread after another. You mention "waiting for a reply" -- someone joining your session "is" the reply, since you automatically know they're interested (or should be). Sessions are also linked to the discord server, so you even have a chat area specifically setup for you, like a "live" thread. In short, theres zero reason threads need to exist here if people can get passed frustration from using them incorrectly or being used to threads. While Sony doesn't endorse boosting, sessions can also be used for other competitive, coop, or shareplay uses that are all fine. Since this community focuses on trophies, and not so much being the "best" in an individual game, PSNP doesn't mind allowing sessions. 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by B1rvine

[Otonio_Bruno]

I'm a sucker for these kinds of threads, can't really help myself out of this.

 

9 hours ago, EqualityEarth said:

If it wasn’t obvious, my issues were with 2 things: perceiving whether Sony ToS compliance is part of a package deal with PSNP, and how much the condition for leaving the leaderboard unfortunately relieves you of all the other site features (I’ll never forget who messaged me for help because they saw me as a recent player of their trouble game). Hackers would stay low rank with auto-hiding no matter how far they take it, and the integrity of the leaderboard would be maintained, despite everyone still being on it (like an adblocker only letting you access sites that don’t have ads in the first place).

 

Boldened: Not true, all sites features are still available for anyone to use if you're out of the leaderboards; you can still make/join game sessions, customize your profile card, have a forum profile and post it, all premium features still stay the same (As in 1 minute updates, auto-updates every 6 hours etc) along all others. If you read contrary information elsewhere, it's an outdated info.

Italic: That doesn't work in a real world. Hackers learn from their mistakes, they would just keep getting better and better at faking their timestamps and at some point surpass legit gamers with their ill-gained trophies.

 

9 hours ago, EqualityEarth said:

 All the reasons a game is flagged for are all understandable; what I had to reconcile was that while PSNP explicitly states being unaffiliated with SEN, it nevertheless behaves like it is. Like I mentioned earlier, YaPSNApp puts you on a leaderboard as well—but just with your friends. If they disagree with what you have, they can unfriend you without there being police on a gaming network.

 

The message at the bottom is a safeguard against any process the admin/owner would get if he claimed to be working with Sony. Also it's kinda curious why you think that being unaffiliated means that we wouldn't follow SEN guidelines/rules/ToS.

 

9 hours ago, EqualityEarth said:

...but as I’ve heard, it will come off in time, and I don’t even necessarily have to reply to the CRT/mod members. They themselves are already quite divided from what I’ve read. They will do their thing and I will do mine.

 

I'm not entirely privy on what occurs between CRT and/or moderation but I'm pretty sure they are on the same page regarding general leaderboards rules. Where did you get the impression that they are divided?

 

8 hours ago, Rally-Vincent--- said:

Why? The site would still calculate all of its statistics, just the leaderboard would only show those who opt to participate in it.

 

Because that would require input for the tracked user. See how many tracked users didn't visit/use their forum profile, that helps you gauge how many you would go read an entire new page to be included in the leaderboards, what requirements you'd need to satisfy in order to be able to join it, etcetera, i.e much less people would be in the leaderboards and the stats would also be skewed because of that. Opt-out would much less players leaving that Opt-in would have players not joing.

 

And no, the site doesn't calculate stats of people that aren't included in the leaderboards. There is the slighty odd glitch in lesser known games that have inflated rarities because of hackers, but that was supposedly fixed (?) some months ago.

 

2 hours ago, EqualityEarth said:

I have read the sections on the policies exhaustively for the sake of my own clarity, hence the title of the thread, which I hoped would be its own tl;dr...it was after clarifying that my plans are not kosher with PSNP that I wondered if there a is way to preemptively step down from a leaderboard I neither cared nor minded to be on. Some disagree, but I must reassert that the leaderboard remains the central cause of the conflicts (including first/fastest/recent achievers), for it is precisely what invokes fairness. If that request is considered cowardice, then ok, I never got away with being considered normal. I'm after whatever the site facilitates.

 

Quite frankly, you started the whole confusion. A much simpler way of getting what you'd like would be to create a thread like this: I would like to be removed from the leaderboards, what do I need to do? One or more members of the community would point you out to contact CRT (Cheater Removal Team) and request to be removed by one of them and they would do with no problem. Your issue would be solved and not a single confusion would be born out of it. Some would even ask why you'd want to be removed but since it's not of anyone's concern, you could just ignore those messages and move on with your newly-acquired leaderboardless profile.

 

Instead you made a quite big opening post (And subsequent ones) rambling how the leaderboards have no reason to be, how PSNP seems to follow SEN rules/guidelines and you didn't expect that, maybe going on why some stuff should be or shouldn't be allowed in the leaderboards among other things.

 

Could even be a feature request thread to have a leaderboards opt-out function , which for example I'm favor of. Probably would gathered enough traction even.

 

2 hours ago, EqualityEarth said:

Here's what PSNP doesn't like.

-Accessing independent servers restoring online game components. Another example of people helping each other because the developer abandoned it.

 

Not true. Independent servers can be used to unlock online trophies as long it's verified to run the same in the same manner as the original servers. Example: Gonespy for Bulletstorm is allowed. Another example: Yuvi's private server is allowed for Demon's Souls.

 

2 hours ago, EqualityEarth said:

Here's what PSNP doesn't like.
-Using a trophy unlocker app to hack glitched trophies. I don't defend this one, because the fun is earning the 100%, not clicking for it. Beast Quest (among others where the glitch was unfortunately on their respective "last lousy 1%") eventually got a patch, so I've resolved that developer fixes for the other games are well worth the wait.

-Pirating digital-only games no longer available for purchase. I won't even consider game sharing; it's dangerous before the fact and threads about it are obviously deleted/blocked.

 

First is a given, no further commentaries. Second is easy to understand: This isn't a warez website and forum guidelines make that very clear. So asking on how to pirate games is a no-go for obvious reasons, no one with a website that generates this amount of traffic want to have new lawsuits every other week.

 

2 hours ago, EqualityEarth said:

To simplify, if and when I get around to any game with this, there comes a flag. By itself, based on what I've read, that's so not terrible to me, and I would just ignore it if that's all that happens. What I'm really afraid of, is if after a flag, does More happen? Do you keep getting messaged by staff until you reply? Do you lose any other site features? Can you still write a guide and answer other people's questions? I'm not asking for permission to cheat. I'm asking, can I get it over with, and whether or not you are left alone once you're off the grid and make no attempt to come back? If it truly is for the single faceted consequence that's come up so far, then I can stop worrying about it completely.

 

Once you get a flag, you get red box in your profile you telling you so. That's the end of it. There is no staff messaging you, no site features losses other than the leaderboard itself, no one will even know what game you were flagged for aside staff and unless you make a big deal of getting out of lbs, most people won't even notice it.

 

2 hours ago, EqualityEarth said:

In regards to the SEN, PSNP might as well be one with it. I was initially under the impression that PSNP was a more laissez-faire space, that would go so far as to explain how to use CFW, find out there's a disc out there for a gone game, distribute delisted DLC, fix the unobtainables, and even provide store links like PSDeals...until I gathered how very important the point chasing and accounting was to the staff. I knew something was off as soon as i saw that boosting threads were prohibited

 

Not sure you got that impression, this site doesn't even provide download links for anything...It's a profiles' site, not a warez one. Boosting threads are prohibited to promote sessions and quite frankly, these threads are so antiquated, sessions make everything much more dynamic and fluid.

 

Side-note: Speaking of talking about CFW: I love how the moderation here is quite fair and just doesn't outright ban you for saying "I played somethingsomething on an emulator." There was the site was a member for a large number of years that MENTIONING emulators, roms, mods, cfw or other related words would get a 3-day suspension as first offense, second offense would be a ban already. So, if someone is looking here to get pirate games with CFW, moderation here just go and lecture that this isn't the place, lock the thread and make it invisible, no further action necessary.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Otonio_Bruno

[Rally-Vincent---]

3 hours ago, Otonio_Bruno said:

Because that would require input for the tracked user. See how many tracked users didn't visit/use their forum profile, that helps you gauge how many you would go read an entire new page to be included in the leaderboards, what requirements you'd need to satisfy in order to be able to join it, etcetera, i.e much less people would be in the leaderboards and the stats would also be skewed because of that. Opt-out would much less players leaving that Opt-in would have players not joing.

 

The leaderboard is not part of the forum. Opting in would be part of the PSNP site, not PSNP forums. Anybody who really wants it will google how to. They don't need to make a forum account to read the forums.

 

Less players in the leaderboard is kind of the point of opt-in: only those who really want to. There are many dead profiles in the leaderboards that do not get auto updated any more. Numbers are skewed either way, and what are they really needed for? To be higher ranked than "millions"? Leaderboard competition takes place upwards, not down there. If only people who really care are in the leaderboard, every rank should have much more meaning than it has now.

[DaivRules]

6 hours ago, EqualityEarth said:

Here's what PSNP doesn't like.

1-Using Account Switcher Apps on PSVITA. 
 

2-Accessing independent servers restoring online game components.

 

3-Using a trophy unlocker app to hack glitched trophies.

 

4-Pirating digital-only games no longer available for purchase. I won't even consider game sharing; it's dangerous before the fact and threads about it are obviously deleted/blocked.

1- How would anyone on the site know that you used an account switcher app versus the email account switcher(Which is accepted here)? If you want to find out how to do so, great. Do it somewhere else. Don’t ask about it here. There are entire sites dedicated to the discussion they don’t need to be in these forums. 
 

2-Not true. If you’ve read exhaustively, you’d know this. 
 

3-Correct, if you are someone who wants to meet the requirements of entering and staying on the leaderboard. 

 

4-Again, no one on the site knows if you pirated a game. We just aren’t facilitating the discussion of piracy. 
 

Sounds more like you came to the site with expectations completely different than what this site has ever provided. 
 

If you still want off the leaderboard, that can happen. If you think because you’re off the leaderboard you’ll be able to start discussing CFW or pirating here, you still don’t understand how this site functions. 

[pinkrobot_pb]

2 hours ago, Rally-Vincent--- said:

Less players in the leaderboard is kind of the point of opt-in: only those who really want to. There are many dead profiles in the leaderboards that do not get auto updated any more. Numbers are skewed either way, and what are they really needed for? To be higher ranked than "millions"? Leaderboard competition takes place upwards, not down there. If only people who really care are in the leaderboard, every rank should have much more meaning than it has now.

 

Opt-in would mean at first there would be a purge moment where everyone would be thrown out. This could logically only have taken place at the very start of the leaderboards. But then a lot of players who do not play anymore would never return to the leaderboards. It's not right to distort history like that. Those "dead" profiles have their place in trophy history too, just like record books are not something of only the present day. First and fastest achievers for example would immediately lose their significance.

 

If you want a fully opt-in trophy leaderboard you need to start a new one.

Edited July 19, 2020 by pinkrobot_pb

[Rally-Vincent---]

11 minutes ago, pinkrobot_pb said:

 

Opt-in would mean at first there would be a purge moment where everyone would have been thrown out. This could logically only have taken place at the very start of the leaderboards. Because making them opt-in now means first having to throw off everyone. This would mean a lot of players who do not play anymore would never return to the leaderboards. It's not right to distort history like that. "Dead" profiles have their place in trophy history too, just like record books are not something of only the present day. First and fastest achievers for example would immediately lose their significance.

 

If you want a fully opt-in trophy leaderboard you need to start a new one.

 

Anyone who makes their profile private falls out of the leaderboard. "History" is no hindrance for that. If everyone who don't want to be in the leaderboards made their profile private, it'd be the same for the leaderboards - only that they'd fall out of all the other stats as well. Only nobody does it because it would be overkill. This basically forces players into the leaderboard, even if in theory, they could "opt out" via privacy settings.

 

Opt-in only affects the leaderboard, not the other stats. It is a good compromise. What do you need dead profiles for in the leaderboard if they never return? They don't get purged from the site and its statistics. The leaderboard shows nothing more than the combined point value of all trophies. Leaderboard competition is only effected by active players.

[pinkrobot_pb]

1 hour ago, Rally-Vincent--- said:

*snip*

 

First and fastest achievers was only an example. If Hakoom stopped playing today never to return, should he simply lose his place at the top of the rankings? I think that's silly because his accomplishment still remains the same today, tomorrow and in 10 years time.

 

Anyway, there really is no reason to make the leaderboards opt-in. Something on this site would need to be changed for that, and then you might just as well create a function to opt-out of them. Then it's the choice of the active player not to be listed, instead of forcing past players not to be listed any longer.

 

I'm repeating myself here, but this choice should have been made at the start and should not be made retroactively.

 

If opting out became possible I think I would probably use it at some point. I do not care about the leaderboards at all and only use this site for other things, like looking at my own games and using the gaming sessions. I think the only reason I would not want to be removed right now is that I think it may be detrimental to getting into gaming sessions.

 

Anyway, let's not fall out over this. We both know neither of these changes will be made

[EqualityEarth]

13 hours ago, Otonio_Bruno said:

A much simpler way of getting what you'd like would be to create a thread like this: I would like to be removed from the leaderboards, what do I need to do? One or more members of the community would point you out to contact CRT (Cheater Removal Team) and request to be removed by one of them and they would do with no problem. Your issue would be solved and not a single confusion would be born out of it. Some would even ask why you'd want to be removed but since it's not of anyone's concern, you could just ignore those messages and move on with your newly-acquired leaderboardless profile

You answered the question. Thank you. ^^