Suggestion: Flagged Subforum

[Matto_lsi]

There could always be a balance between the 2 systems people are suggesting.  For instance, if someone is flagged and decides they want to appeal it, the mod can check their account.  Erring on the side of caution, if the mod can't immediately determine if it was a mistake, or the evidence the user provides is not clear enough as the mod hasn't played the game, they uphold the ban with a caveat that the user can then open the discussion on a particular forum so the community can weigh in.  That way, obvious hackers get the boot, and those who really didn't can get their voice heard by their peers.

 

Years ago on TA someone flagged one of my games and I got a mod notice that I got flagged, but it was immediately overturned (as I don't cheat).  However, that rattled me, so even now I purposely don't unlock trophies in quick succession, even when I easily can.  I used to love setting up my achievements and trophies so I could pop a whole bunch at once, it was awesome.  But I'm so scared that someone who doesn't understand the game mechanics sees a bunch of different trophies popping at once and flags it.  It's not worth the hassle of disputing it.

 

The point is, some people do cheat, but for those few who get wrongfully accussed, a lynch mob is still waiting for them in the forums regardless.  Keep in mind there's a lot of ways people can in fact accidentally get trophies they never meant to get.  Just look at the digital PS4 issues where if you download multiple games at the same time, you could end up getting the wrong trophies for your game.  The company I work for gets dozens of these daily.  The fault on this one however, lies solely with Sony, but it would be pretty easy for a forum mob to condemn the person for earning trophies out of order if they weren't familiar with the issue.

 

Just my 2 cents...

[Beyondthegrave07]

Avoid unwanted attention for something they purposefully did?  Sorry bro, I accidentally hacked that game. 

 

I'm not saying it's OK to hack and I'm glad we have the option to report them. And what Madbuk said is also true, we do go too easy on them.

But look at the big picture for a moment. The people making these threads ARE NOT active members on the forums. They don't know our etiquette, they don't know how to PM a Mod, and they especially don't know what they signed up for when they publicly expose themselves like that as an accused hacker.

If it was me or you, it's a different story. We've been here for a long time and we understand what will happen if we make such a thread.

I'm not saying that hacking is OK or that hackers don't understand what hacking is. I'm saying let them have the blatent option of privacy without the hate train mowing them down.

Now if they choose to make it public. That's there own fault. I'm not saying making a public option is not a good idea, but give them a private option or at least a damn warning

[Quikdrawjoe]

I'm not saying it's OK to hack and I'm glad we have the option to report them. And what Madbuk said is also true, we do go too easy on them.

But look at the big picture for a moment. The people making these threads ARE NOT active members on the forums. They don't know our etiquette, they don't know how to PM a Mod, and they especially don't know what they signed up for when they publicly expose themselves like that as an accused hacker.

If it was me or you, it's a different story. We've been here for a long time and we understand what will happen if we make such a thread.

I'm not saying that hacking is OK or that hackers don't understand what hacking is. I'm saying let them have the blatent option of privacy without the hate train mowing them down.

Now if they choose to make it public. That's there own fault. I'm not saying making a public option is not a good idea, but give them a private option or at least a damn warning

 

Not to draw the analogy to far but when you break a law, you have to deal with the consequences including the public ridicule (good luck censoring the whole internet).  My thinking is something along the lines of, "don't the crime if you can't do the time."  A person has to choose to hack, it's not like we're saying hey hacker person your face is ugly! bitch! We're saying you're a bad person and deserve your ban/flag/whatever.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Quikdrawjoe

[DaivRules]

a group of people is more likely to find flaws in a persons profile than 1 mod alone

 

If you changed that to "the right group of people", I would agree with you. Mob mentality rarely results in decisions great for society. If mods wanted to ask Premium Members who legitimately *have* the trophy, I would think they could do just that. I'm not going to assume that mods are ill equipped to judge these situations because I have no evidence to say that are.

 

 

Not to draw the analogy to far but when you break a law, you have to deal with the consequences including the public ridicule (good luck censoring the whole internet).  My thinking is something along the lines of, "don't the crime if you can't do the time."  A person has to choose to hack, it's not like we're saying hey hacker person your face is ugly! bitch! We're saying you're a bad person and deserve your ban/flag/whatever.

 

IF you break the law. That isn't decided when you're accused. It's decided when you go to court, aka reviewed by the mods, in this situation. Your post is quick to assume conviction upon discovery. Rushing to judgment can come back to bite people in the ass. There are also two schools of thought for the correction system. One is that it should just be punishment and enough punishment for everyone to feel good about themselves for not being punished. The other is that the system is set up to rehabilitate the occupants so that they can still do good once their time is up. Seems like you're in the first camp. Let's hope you're never accused of something you didn't do.

[Dr_Mayus]

I agree with this, but on a side note I don't like how this community just jumps on the conclusion that if you're accused of cheating, you are cheater without a doubt, I still remember the incident with ginko765 when he was accused of cheating because he beat Project Diva F in three hours and then a bunch of people just started declaring him a cheater until he came back with proof on how he did it and then everybody got quiet and even Admin himself came to the thread and unflagged him. Sorry I just hate it when people just assume the other person is guilty without a full story. I hate cheaters too but I will at least hear them out before declaring them a cheater.

In fairness though he never once said how he did it. It was left to the users of this forum to decide that he wasn't a cheater. Hell he might have still been a cheater but when someone gave a realistic out he jumped on it (not saying that is what happened...but food for thought).

 

If you get flagged instead of just saying "I've been flagged" actually explain how you were able to obtain a games platinum in a ridiculous short time and then people would probably congratulate you instead of looking for other games you have cheated on.

[Bizz-dono]

I also would like to get a good laugh so i vote this motion gets passed!

[ExHaseo]

This would stop the hazing from other forum members and would help them avoid unwanted attention.

 

Why would you want to stop that?

 

Babying a hacker is quite possibly the worst thing to do. If someone is a hacker, we don't want them in the community. We want them to move on. So, it's a good thing when they get hazed. They also deserve the attention, given that they hacked.

Letting them quietly dispute the flag, get shot down by a mod, and then just hide the trophies without anyone knowing is a very bad idea. Since they could just become better at making trophies look legitimate, and bring down the leaderboards. While if they were laughed out of town, it would discourage them from taking part in the community. At least to the point where they wouldn't be hiding their trophies to stay on the leaderboards. And in the event that someone actually is wrongfully flagged (which I've seen only one time, and even that one time was VERY arguable either way), then the thread just gets locked, the person gets unflagged, and nobody cares anymore.

[Memnoch]

1 - You guys get way too worried about hackers, I even know someone who likens them to murderers (although he'd probably befriend a murderer quicker than someone who he knew had hacked trophies)

 

2 - These people wouldn't use the right forum part in the first place, you can bet your ass they would just post in this general part of the forums in any case !

[Quikdrawjoe]

If you changed that to "the right group of people", I would agree with you. Mob mentality rarely results in decisions great for society. If mods wanted to ask Premium Members who legitimately *have* the trophy, I would think they could do just that. I'm not going to assume that mods are ill equipped to judge these situations because I have no evidence to say that are.

 

 

 

IF you break the law. That isn't decided when you're accused. It's decided when you go to court, aka reviewed by the mods, in this situation. Your post is quick to assume conviction upon discovery. Rushing to judgment can come back to bite people in the ass. There are also two schools of thought for the correction system. One is that it should just be punishment and enough punishment for everyone to feel good about themselves for not being punished. The other is that the system is set up to rehabilitate the occupants so that they can still do good once their time is up. Seems like you're in the first camp. Let's hope you're never accused of something you didn't do.

 

Legally, that is the case but as we've seen people have already been convicted in the court of public opinion (see any famous case in the last 50 years).  I think you're also forgetting that to get flagged/banned for hacking that someone had to report you, a mod had to review the report and then determine that the evidence was both quantitatively and qualitatively enough to take said action.  They've already had their trial and been convicted; unless I've misread something nobody was suggesting that we just name and shame people rather than report them.  My understanding was that this was about what to do when people post about their flag/ban.

 

Off Topic about prison/legal system:  The two schools of thought are punishment or rehabilitation.  Punishment for you did something wrong and have to suffer the consequences and rehabilitation for you've done something wrong but we can fix the issue that caused you to do wrong.  I'm actually more on the rehabilitation side myself being in graduate school to become a counselor but at the same time I've learned that some people cannot be rehabilitated (Anti-Social Personality Disorder, ASD, or more commonly known as sociopaths, psychopaths etc).  I believe in cases like that there is nothing but punishment, more for the protection of everyone else though.

 

EDIT:  Maybe it would help everyone if there was more transparency about the process for someone who is reported.  The mods can explain their process and how they handle a report.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Quikdrawjoe