Well, it's not looking too good for the Xbox 360

[DanielVT]

exactly my point!

hey dude im not hating nor disliking your opinion, i think your point of view is a very valid one.

like you said its a discussion forum, if everyone had the same opinion then it would be dull as fuck lol

p.s i know what you mean about the video game stores

Thank you for your courteous reply. It is a breath of fresh air.

I'm not surprised. Its rare you find someone in those stores that actually know the product.

You're entitled to your opinion, and as I said my intention wasnt to be rude. I also dont recall calling you stupid.

Of course it wouldnt directly affect Sony or anyone developing solely for them, but the games industry as a whole would be poorer without healthy competition. If you only have one leader out there who do they have to better? themselves? Trust me, if it hadnt been for healthy competition the PS3 itself, would likely still be selling for a stupidly high price.

As for developers being affected, many a studio has been broken by a game that never released or sold poorly on a chosen platform. If the Xbox were to be banned, and it sunk a couple of small devs going for their big break, thats a little less innovation out there.

Dont be so blinded by fanboyism that Sony care about the consumer, they dont. If any of the big 3 were out there on their own, the first thing they would do is shaft the customer. If there is no competition and you want that video system badly enough, you will buy it. simply because you have no other choice.

Thats the last I have to say on the issue.

Yes, Af, I never said you called me stupid, for that matter nobody specifically did. However, I was getting that vibe from the abundance of disagreeing (and sometimes rather rude) posts. Finally, I see the validity of your opinion. If the Xbox got banned, their would certainly be negative and positive side effects. I however, just believe that their would be more good than bad for positive......who knows, it really does not matter as Microsoft is too rich to allow their beloved console to be removed!

[Elliot]

1) Cheaper games: I'm guessing this is a result of battling a much larger threat of piracy and a lack of casual gamers gaming on the PC (thusly PC games need to come out a little cheaper to not push people away). I could easily see this changing and games being released at the exact same price as console should PC ever garner that much popularity amongst "hardcore"/casual gamers alike. Even Steam. It's just business.

2) More variety of games? Really? The PC has only a handful of exclusives worth mentioning and 90% of them are coming from the same company (Blizzard). The rest are just awful to mediocre MMORPG's and RTS's and god forbid you not have an unhealthy obsession with those genre's like most PC gamers. Let's have a peek at the variety of games you miss out on by gaming on the PC exclusively...

Now that's a WIDE variety of games that you don't get to play... and that's just off the top of my head/looking through my current collection of games. And for what? Access to World of Warcraft and the 500 similar MMORPG's that followed it? Diablo III? Starcraft and League of Legends? Basically the three games that Blizzard has put out in the last ten years. That's variety?

1) It's well established that cheaper games make more money for everyone concerned. A factor of 40 times more, in fact, which is quite a lot of money. Lower prices benefit the companies, so they have no incentive to drive prices up because it will hurt their bottom line.

2) BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, that's so ignorant it's painful to read. I've never played a Blizzard game in my life, yet I have a catalogue of well over 400 PC games from all different genres. You should probably at least do the most basic of research before you post things about how there's no variety when even on Steam which is the most mainstream service on PC there's hundreds upon hundreds of innovative, unique and quirky PC titles and that's if you don't even bother to look outside Steam. (Also Blizzard didn't make LoL, that was Riot Games. Again, fact checking 'n' stuff.)

Oh, and for funsies (a lot of the games I list are free as well):

-Any Halo after 2.

-Any Gears of War after 1.

-Little Big Planet 1 & 2

-NHL and Madden games.

-The Uncharted's

-Marvel Ultimate Alliance 1 & 2

-Any Metal Gear Solid after 2 (unless you count emulation, then after 3)

-Lost Odyssey

-Any single player Final Fantasy after VIII (unless you count emulation, then after XII)

-Rayman Origins

-Heavy Rain

-Entire God of War series

-Killzone

-Any Team ICO game

-Yakuza

-Red Dead Redemption

• There are more FPS games on PC than I could possibly list, and they also control much better due to being played with a mouse. For sci-fi shooters, check Hard Reset or Tribes: Ascend.
  
• There are plenty of TPS games on PC, and they also control better due to being played with a mouse. For sci-fi TPSs, check Warhammer 40K Space Marine, Firefall, Giants: Citizen Kabuto, MDK, MDK2, Outcast or Super Monday Night Combat
  
• There are tons of make-your-own-game games on PC (discounting the fact that, you know, you can just open up Visual Studio and actually make games on a PC). For make-your-own-platformers, check Super Meat Boy, Braid, Dustforce, all of which have level editors.
  
• Sportsball. Bleh.
  
• So, adventurey TPS games rather than sciffy ones? Tomb Raider Legend, Tomb Raider Anniversary or Lost Planet.
  
• Co-op Action RPGs? Oh my, there's so many! You even said so yourself! Try Path of Exile, Sacred, Sacred 2, Dungeon Siege 3, Titan Quest or Deathspank.
  
• Stealth games? Try any Thief game, Splinter Cell, Hitman, or something indie like StealthBastard.
  
• I've already covered JRPGs on PC in a different post in this thread.
  
• You know Rayman Origins is out on PC?
  
• Fahrenheit or Omikron, both of which are also by Quantic Dream.
  
• Hacky slashy games? Try Devil May Cry 3 and 4, Onimusha 3 and 4, LOTR: Return of the King.
  
• Moar sciffy shooters. See above, or try the Unreal Tournament series or Doom 3 or something indier like Zeno Clash.
  
• Emulate them. SotC is pretty cool.
  
• What genre is Yakuza? There are games that accomplish all of its constituent elements far better than it does itself, though I doubt there's anything that melds them all together.
  
• Rockstar Third person shooters. Try any of the 3D GTA games or Max Payne 3. RDR is the exception to the rule here.
  

So, the genres you argued about were shooters, platformers, brawlers, RPGs and sports, all of which (with the exception of sports, I guess, but I know nothing about this genre) are well represented on PC. Noticably missing from your argument are things like strategy games, rhythm games, shmups, adventure games, puzzle games, MMOs, ARPGs, SRPGs, racing games, visual novels, simulations and anything and everything indie. That's because most of these genres are far better represented on PC than on any console or consoles.

The PC has more and more varied games. To suggest otherwise is to reveal that you don't know what you're talking about. How could it be any other way when the PC is the one platform with no formal approval process impeding development?

Edited June 25, 2012 by Pie

[Dreakon139]

(Also Blizzard didn't make LoL, that was Riot Games. Again, fact checking 'n' stuff.)

You'll notice that I listed four games in that relatively small span (World of Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft and League of Legends... the only recent PC exclusives I could think of off the top of my head), but continued to say three games by Blizzard in the end? Wonder why I did that? I guess it was a little confusing, but of all people I would expect my debating partner to piece it together.

You know... reading n' stuff.

The gist of what I got from reading that obnoxiously colorful post is that the PC has a lot of the same games the console does and indie games (which are also on console I guess). Yeah, you can find mediocre replacements for games like Halo, Killzone, Heavy Rain, Uncharted and others on the PC exclusively. Good for you. Almost every game you list came out 5-10 years ago or more. You can't live on Onimusha 3 and Unreal Tournament forever, next you'll tell me the PC one-ups consoles because of Doom II. Giant Citizen Kabuto, MDK? Are you kidding me? Also... issues abound with older games, newer operating systems and newer sound/video drivers. Beyond that of the "compatibility modes". Though there are a lot of issues with newer games and newer drivers as well lol. A never-ending battle... I mean, fun.

Racing games are better represented on console, Forza and Gran Turismo being the biggies.

Rhythm games are better represented on PC? The one really crappy Guitar Hero III port? A bunch of third party guitar hero knockoffs? What about the Rock Bands? The Band Heros? The Rocksmiths? The Singstars? Just Dance? I'll admit I know little about the genre, but I've never heard of the PC leading it.

I'll give you that it has the MMO and strategy markets cornered, but again... god forbid you dislike those genre's. Otherwise you're stuck with indie games, games from the 90's and shoddy console-to-PC ports because PC gamers aren't worth the trouble.

...

Not that the games listed are bad games by any means (though that's subjective anyways, never liked Tomb Raider but love Uncharted), but there's a reason you can't name me newer games... no less newer exclusives. PC gaming is a dying breed, even with Steam and lower prices.

And I really hope you aren't insinuating that game development is as easy as opening Visual Studio and just "making a game"... just about any person that has spent more than ten minutes of serious coding in any language should want to angrily violate your mouth for that. I know I do.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Dreakon139

[Elliot]

You'll notice that I listed four games in that relatively small span (World of Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft and League of Legends... the only recent PC exclusives I could think of off the top of my head), but continued to say three games by Blizzard in the end? Wonder why I did that? I guess it was a little confusing, but of all people I would expect my debating partner to piece it together.

You know... reading n' stuff.

The gist of what I got from reading that obnoxiously colorful post is that the PC has a lot of the same games the console does and indie games (which are also on console I guess). Yeah, you can find mediocre replacements for games like Halo, Killzone, Heavy Rain, Uncharted and others on the PC exclusively. Good for you. Almost every game you list came out 5-10 years ago or more. You can't live on Onimusha 3 and Unreal Tournament forever, next you'll tell me the PC one-ups consoles because of Doom II. Giant Citizen Kabuto, MDK? Are you kidding me? Also... issues abound with older games, newer operating systems and newer sound/video drivers. Beyond that of the "compatibility modes". Though there are a lot of issues with newer games and newer drivers as well lol. A never-ending battle... I mean, fun.

Racing games are better represented on console, Forza and Gran Turismo being the biggies.

Rhythm games are better represented on PC? The one really crappy Guitar Hero III port? A bunch of third party guitar hero knockoffs? What about the Rock Bands? The Band Heros? The Rocksmiths? The Singstars? Just Dance? I'll admit I know little about the genre, but I've never heard of the PC leading it.

I'll give you that it has the MMO and strategy markets cornered, but again... god forbid you dislike those genre's. Otherwise you're stuck with indie games, games from the 90's and shoddy console-to-PC ports because PC gamers aren't worth the trouble.

...

Not that the games listed are bad games by any means (though that's subjective anyways, never liked Tomb Raider but love Uncharted), but there's a reason you can't name me newer games... no less newer exclusives. PC gaming is a dying breed, even with Steam and lower prices.

And I really hope you aren't insinuating that game development is as easy as opening Visual Studio and just "making a game"... just about any person that has spent more than ten minutes of serious coding in any language should want to angrily violate your mouth for that. I know I do.

Things being old doesn't mean they're bad. "Good" games are transient, they'll be gone from collective conscience quickly. Great games are timeless. Stuff like Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Duke Nukem 3D, Unreal Tournament, etc are all still great fun to play. There's still a competitive scene, albeit small, for the original UT, you know.

All the older games I listed are on GOG, which means no compatibility issues. They run perfectly on modern and old systems.

For rhythm games see Audiosurf, Beat Hazard, Turba, Chime, Polynomial, Stepmania, Ultrastar, Frets on Fire, almost all of which let you play with whatever custom music you want.

Also shooters and shmups and racers and... Yeah, everything. You're not "stuck" with any one genre. The only thing there isn't is sports, to my knowledge (except Football Manager).

It's really not dying at all. Gabe Newell is a billionaire, Kickstarter's exploding, etc, etc. PC gaming's thriving.

If you didn't know, I study Computer Science at the University of Oxford, so yes, surprisingly, I have "spent more than ten minutes of serious coding". It's time consuming but anyone can learn to do it if they're willing to put in the effort, and all the tools and tutorials are available for free is my point. There's a very low barrier to entry even if making something good is pretty difficult and time consuming, but anyone can still have a crack.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Pie

[Dreakon139]

It's really not dying at all. Gabe Newell is a billionaire, Kickstarter's exploding, etc, etc. PC gaming's thriving.

If you didn't know, I study Computer Science at the University of Oxford, so yes, surprisingly, I have "spent more than ten minutes of serious coding". It's time consuming but anyone can learn to do it if they're willing to put in the effort, and all the tools and tutorials are available for free is my point. There's a very low barrier to entry even if making something good is pretty difficult and time consuming, but anyone can still have a crack.

You and me have different definitions of thriving. One or two companies capitalizing in what would be a desolate wasteland of a platform without them, and a site with moderate success porting a handful of older games, does not equal thriving in my book. I've never heard of Kickstarter (no clue what it is), spending so much of my free time on gaming forums you would think it would've come up at some point, at least once... even if it is mostly console forums. Kickstarter is "exploding" afterall.

EDIT: Just looked it up, it's a cool idea (though games are seemingly just a small portion of it). "Exploding" is a bit much. People raised over half a million dollars for a fat old bus monitor that got bullied by kids on a schoolbus, does that mean fat old people are thriving as well?

I specified that I don't consider older games bad, but if we're having a discussion on what platform is "inherently preferable" today, I'd imagine you would be discussing the here and now... not which platform had better games 15 years ago. Just because a game is timeless for you, and only recently became playable on a OS newer than Windows 98, doesn't suddenly trump the great console exclusives that are released on a damn near monthly basis. Also, in a previous post you mentioned Final Fantasy VII... which is not only not on GoG, but has notorious compatibility issues. Believe me, I spent years toiling away to get it working perfectly (was worth it because I love the damn game, and I like a challenge, but still) and even modded the game for a while.

I don't really have the patience to look up every single game you've listed and some are obviously on GoG like Baldur's Gate, but you're off to a bad start. Oh, and Frets on Fire is a bloated mess. What did they code that in, Java?

...

And there's a difference between "just loading up Visual Studio and making a game" as an argument in a debate and "putting in the time and effort to have a crack at it". If what you say you study is true... I'd kind of expect you to have a bit more respect for that. It's like a college hockey player blurting out that any schmuck with ice skates and a stick can play in the NHL. Not to compare programmers and athletes, but you get the idea.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Dreakon139

[Rngesus37]

I'm pretty sure this won't happen but I'm completely done with Microsoft as a game company unless some drastic changes occur with the Next Box, which I don't believe are happening. As long as Sony steps up their online game even a little next gen, I likely have zero need for the Next Box. PS4 will be my main console just like the PS3 is this generation. Much like this generation, I'll probably succumb and buy a Wii-U for a handful of games, play those and then let it sit in a close collecting dust for years after ward.

[Death]

Without competition, we'd all still be playing on 8-bit machines...

Well I wouldn't say that. If there was only one company making games, they would more than likely try and improve overtime to satisfy the customers right? Although probably not as fast since there isn't any competition.

[Parker]

Well I wouldn't say that. If there was only one company making games, they would more than likely try and improve overtime to satisfy the customers right? Although probably not as fast since there isn't any competition.

Companies are all about making money. Every decision they make is geared towards them making money. When you have multiple companies making a product the competition between them makes them constantly one up each other to get more sales. If there was only one company making video games the progress would be extremely slow because there would be no one else there to push them to make something better. While I don't think we'd still be on 8 bit mahcines today, I do think we wouldn't be anywhere close to where we are now without competition.

Call of Duty is a prime example. There is really nothing that competes with it, so there aren't many changes made to it. If CoD had an actual competitor that had the potential to steal some sales away (in my opinion, Battlefield and CoD don't really compete as they are different genres of shooter) then I bet we'd see a lot more progress than we do now. When Medal of Honor was out we saw just that, each one was one upping the other.

Parker

[PSXtreme_]

Well I wouldn't say that. If there was only one company making games, they would more than likely try and improve overtime to satisfy the customers right? Although probably not as fast since there isn't any competition.

While probably an exaggeration, I wouldn't expect us to be past the 32-bit output for today...mostly because the CD is cheaper to produce than the carts, so the one game system developer probably would have updated it's hardware to that level...but we still might not be gaming in 3-D...or using polygons instead of sprites.

[xChrisGTRx]

Sony Vs Nintendo we already can tell the obvious winner if this happens i tink xbox people would come to the psn leaving Nintendo with mostly kids and casuals and i dont think its a spot they want to be in

Sony Vs Nintendo we already can tell the obvious winner if this happens i think xbox people would come to the psn leaving Nintendo with mostly kids and casuals and i dont think its a spot they want to be in

[Piggie_Pie]

now i don't actually think there would be a ban in NA but i also don't think it would make a difference... the Playstation1 was around before Xbox was even a thought and it was an amazing system and did well... the PS2 did well in spite of the xbox and the PS3 is doing just as well still...

I personally haven't liked xbox since the day they kicked down the proverbial gaming doors and considered themselves better than everyone else... they are very arrogant and their fanboys are worse than any of the big 3 and they act elite... its just a major turn off for me... I will stick with Playstation for the rest of my days... if Sony somehow decides to go under or quit the gaming industry, i still probably have enough games on my shelf alone that could last me a lifetime... i will never own an Xbox. <--- period

but here is the bottom line... im not trying to start a flame war... no matter what system you own, only one thing matters, and that is HAVING FUN... it doesn't matter about my personal hatred toward Microsoft... if you own a 360 or if you own a PS3 or if you have a Wii-U pre ordered... it doesn't matter as long as you do whats best for you and have fun in the process...

if Sony and Microsoft left the gaming industry for some crazy reason i don't think it would effect Nintendo... half would become PC gamers, and the other half would buy a Nintendo... Until the next console came out... Gamers gonna game no matter what.

[xMw2x_DeCePtiOnS]

http://www.ign.com/a...e-united-states

I think I posted about this when I first got here, but now it looks even worse for Microsoft.

Of course, I'll be laughing my ass off if they ban 360 sales in the US. Not to mention that would take away the biggest supporter of the 360 by far. We can all hope that the impact will be severe enough to knock Microsoft and their awful practices out of the race. Although I'd rather not see Apple get in. I'd rather it'd be Sega, but that's not exactly realistic. I'd like it better if it were simply Nintendo vs Sony or something, except that Nintendo seems to be failing epically as well, so I'm not quite sure. Maybe someone from the past?

the xbox is already banned in germany lol ,.

[Piggie_Pie]

Thought this was funny... and it kinda fits... KINDA

http://kotaku.com/5955131/chinese-grandma-tries-to-shut-down-a-microsoft-event-then-things-get-ugly

lightens the mood a little bit

[Robdc]

It will be a dark day if it happens because who knows what the us gov will do next my wildist nightmare whould be if it happens after xbox goes, playstation would be the next, not to mention all the game devs would be effected big time.