Can someone explain to me why save transfers are flagged as cheating?

[Beyondthegrave07]

1 hour ago, chrisredfield_97 said:

 

Then what about the example I posted in the OP?How can he prove he didn't use a third party editing software to obtain the trophies?That's what I'm trying to understand.If the admins can let that one slide, then why can't they make an exception for people that transferred their saves to their main accounts?

Because the rules are not set up to doubt others.

 

Your example can be easily repeated by anyone to prove that this order is possible with a second controller and is not against the rules set up by the CRT. If someone exploited it and used third party software, there's nothing we can really do about it. We give everyone the benefit of the doubt in this case and are assumed to be legit timestamps. This is an apples to oranges comparison.

 

The problem with infamous is that you can't repeat your timestamps without breaking the rules already set up by the Cheater team. That's the problem.

 

We have the hide two games rule as a leniency for people who made mistakes like yourself (typically early on in trophy hunting). That's not just a one-time exception, that's a two-time exception.

 

I think everyone here has clearly explained why it's not accepted. If you don't like the rules, that's on you.

[Stevieboy]

Just now, chrisredfield_97 said:

It was allowed because the one of the admins allowed it.I could say the same thing about my trophies, that they just popped randomly.Would I get the same benefit of doubt?

 

What doubt would you be expecting the benefit of?

 

inFamous doesn't have a co-op option, so you can't join the game of someone and have trophies auto-pop.

[chrisredfield_97]

1 minute ago, Beyondthegrave07 said:

Because the rules are not set up to doubt others.

 

Your example can be easily repeated by anyone to prove that this order is possible with a second controller and is not against the rules set up by the CRT. If someone exploited it and used third party software, there's nothing we can really do about it. We give everyone the benefit of the doubt in this case and are assumed to be legit timestamps. This is an apples to oranges comparison.

 

The problem with infamous is that you can't repeat your timestamps without breaking the rules already set up by the Cheater team. That's the problem.

 

We have the hide two games rule as a leniency for people who made mistakes like yourself (typically early on in trophy hunting). That's not just a one-time exception, that's a two-time exception.

 

I think everyone here has clearly explained why it's not accepted. If you don't like the rules, that's on you.

But how is that helping the player with anything?If I decide to hide a game, I get nothing out of it.No one can see it so I don't see why I'd be classified as a cheater.

1 minute ago, Stevieboy said:

 

What doubt would you be expecting the benefit of?

 

inFamous doesn't have a co-op option, so you can't join the game of someone and have trophies auto-pop.

No, it doesn't, but has anyone else tried playing with a second controller to make sure he was telling the truth?Because I could just make the same claims about a different game.

[Beyondthegrave07]

Just now, chrisredfield_97 said:

But how is that helping the player with anything?If I decide to hide a game, I get nothing out of it.No one can see it so I don't see why I'd be classified as a cheater.

Once you hide it, you are no longer classified as a cheater (assuming it's your only flag).

[chrisredfield_97]

Just now, Beyondthegrave07 said:

Once you hide it, you are no longer classified as a cheater (assuming it's your only flag).

Then how is that helping the player?If I hide the game, then there's no benefit of doubt.I don't get any points for the trophies.

[Beyondthegrave07]

Just now, chrisredfield_97 said:

Then how is that helping the player?If I hide the game, then there's no benefit of doubt.I don't get any points for the trophies.

You get back on the leaderboards and are no longer considered a cheater. That's the benefit for the player.

 

You don't get the points for it because it's a cheated game. Cheated = not wanted on the leaderboards. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Stevieboy]

8 minutes ago, chrisredfield_97 said:

No, it doesn't, but has anyone else tried playing with a second controller to make sure he was telling the truth?Because I could just make the same claims about a different game.

 

I don't know what checks or tests the CRT members have done for that game. They may have tested it themselves, or got someone they trust to check it for them to confirm that person's story.

 

5 minutes ago, chrisredfield_97 said:

Then how is that helping the player?If I hide the game, then there's no benefit of doubt.I don't get any points for the trophies.

 

Again, what doubt? There is no doubt with inFamous that you could expect to get the benefit from. There is no legit way, in regards to the leaderboard rules here, to get the trophies to pop in the way they did on your account. Situations happening in other games have nothing to do with inFamous, and what's possible in that game.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Stevieboy

[chrisredfield_97]

Just now, Beyondthegrave07 said:

You get back on the leaderboards and are no longer considered a cheater. That's the benefit for the player.

 

You don't get the points for it because it's a cheated game. Cheated = not wanted on the leaderboards. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

You don't understand.Say I cheated in two games, and I get removed from the leaderboards and I decide to hide those games then it's obvious that the account should go back on the leaderboards.But this has nothing to do with what I was talking about in my OP.

[AJ_-_808]

Dude... seriously 

 

There are some very few multiplayer capable games where you can join someone else and earn trophies in an otherwise unobtainable order.  It's a design exploit within said games and they're largely known by now.

 

Your game isn't one of them, so move on.

 

And it's not the same as ps4/ps5 transferring, no matter how much you try to argue it.

 

You copied a save from one account that you claim is yours to another account. Not allowed, plain and simple.

 

The "they just popped like that by themself" claim never works in the dispute threads

You're just purposely being obtuse now.

[chrisredfield_97]

1 minute ago, Stevieboy said:

 

I don't know what checks or tests the CRT members have done for that game. They may have tested it themselves, or got someone they trust to check it for them to confirm that person's story.

 

 

Again, what doubt? There is no doubt with inFamous that you could expect to get the benefit from. There is no legit way, in regards to the leaderboard rules here, to get the trophies to pop in the way they did on your account. Situations happening in other games are nothing to do with inFamous, and what's possible in that game.

But I am asking you.How do you know for a fact that the trophies didn't just randomly popped out of order?Do you keep tabs on every single game and every single player out there to make sure?No, you don't.So why are the admins giving a person the benefit of doubt and letting it slide but others are not given the same benefit of doubt?That is my question and no one answered it.

[Berendsapje]

3 hours ago, chrisredfield_97 said:

I want to understand why save transfer from my canadian account to my main account is cheating?I am referring to Infamous for which I transferred my save from one of my accounts to the other and the trophies popped our of order, but I still had to play and get the rest of the trophies.Isn't this the same principle for Autopopping trophies when you transfer your PS4 save data to your PS5 ?I even asked a Sony rep about it and they said as long as it doesn't violate their ToS then it should be fine.

 

 

3 minutes ago, chrisredfield_97 said:

But I am asking you.How do you know for a fact that the trophies didn't just randomly popped out of order?Do you keep tabs on every single game and every single player out there to make sure?No, you don't.So why are the admins giving a person the benefit of doubt and letting it slide but others are not given the same benefit of doubt?That is my question and no one answered it.

Because you admitted to it in your Original post.

[Stevieboy]

Just now, chrisredfield_97 said:

But I am asking you.How do you know for a fact that the trophies didn't just randomly popped out of order?Do you keep tabs on every single game and every single player out there to make sure?No, you don't.So why are the admins giving a person the benefit of doubt and letting it slide but others are not given the same benefit of doubt?That is my question and no one answered it.

 

Trophies don't just randomly pop out of order. If they did then you'd be screwed and you'd have to hide the game, unless you could prove or replicate it in a legit manner that satisfies the leaderboard rules. Very few cases are just given the benefit of the doubt. I can't speak for the example in your OP because I'm not involved in the CRT side of things. As I said in the post you quoted, they may have done checks themselves or got someone they trust to do the checks.

 

No-one just gets the benefit of the doubt. If the example in the OP works how it is described, then that is allowed by leaderboard rules. The research would still have to be done to make sure the OP is correct.

 

You don't get the benefit of the doubt for inFamous because there is no doubt to give you any benefit of.

[chrisredfield_97]

Just now, Berendsapje said:

 

Because you admitted to it in your Original post.

Because I like being honest.But others could not be as honest and they'd get a free pass just by making false claims.That was my point from the start.I'm not sure what's so hard to understand.

[Berendsapje]

Just now, chrisredfield_97 said:

Because I like being honest.But others could not be as honest and they'd get a free pass just by making false claims.That was my point from the start.I'm not sure what's so hard to understand.

Mate, do me a favour and go to the Dispute section. There are a ton of disputes on Infamous, and a lot of people simply claiming "oh they popped out of order not my fault". I'm pretty sure there are even some that state that they carried over their own save from another account. 

You want the benefit from the doubt? Go play that Demon Hunter Kimetsu no whatever game and use the exploit in that game. You'll get it for that game. Not for InFamous, just like many, many others before you

[chrisredfield_97]

Alright, for those saying the admins are consistent.Can you explain this thread to me ?

 Again, all I am asking for is a one time exception for people like you've already given others.

Edited August 6, 2022 by chrisredfield_97

[VaDiMkA]

So, my two cents on this issue, coming from a rules lawyer and a actual lawyer.

 

It is what it is.

Rules are like laws, they are formulated as simple as they can be for the benefit of all. But they become problematic when facing actual real life problems, like what you are talking about here. 

For the guys running this site, all those things like the Vita trick, save transfer and autopop are simply wholly different cases.

The results with the trophies might look the same, but since they use different methods and can be traced different, they get also treated differently. 

 

E.g., Autopop needs a lower version (ps4) trophy to pop on ps5. Thats proof of it being legit. 

Vita trick.. never done that, but as far as i known, its considered legit AS LONG AS YOU DO IT RIGHT. If you screw up, its a flagable offense.

The same goes for save transfer. If you dont pop the trophies out of order, no one will care. But if you do, it simply looks like a cheated trophy list and gets flagged. 

In that case, its up the offender it provided proof of legitimacy. And that not always easy. Not only that, the mods here have a limited amount of time and, AFAIK, are doing this for free in their free time. So, if you screw up your list, your fault, and boohoo for you...

 

So stop searching for gaps in the rules. 

If you dont like how a free site handles its system, it has a log out button. 

[DaivRules]

5 minutes ago, chrisredfield_97 said:

Alright, for those saying the admins are consistent.Can you explain this thread to me ?

 Again, all I am asking for is a one time exception for people like you've already given others.

They played a game before it had trophies, played again after trophies were patched in, and were allowed to stay on the leaderboards. 
 

Did you earn in Infamous before it had trophies patched in and then have them auto pop?

 

Please stop absurdly comparing what you want to others in completely different scenarios. 
 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by DaivRules

[Stevieboy]

2 minutes ago, chrisredfield_97 said:

Alright, so those saying the admins are consistent.Then can someone explain this thread to me : 

 Again, all I am asking for is a one time exception for people like you've already given others.

 

That one was a judgement call by the CRT. That situation was very unique and hadn't been encountered before, so the CRT made a judgement call because there was no previous precedent and allowed it, but made the caveat that if other games were found to be cheated then the benefit of the doubt would be taken away.

[chrisredfield_97]

Just now, DaivRules said:

They played a game before it had trophies, played again after trophies were popped in, and were allowed to stay on the leaderboards. 
 

Did you earn in Infamous before it had trophies patched in and then have them auto pop?

 

Please stop absurdly comparing what you want to others in completely different scenarios. 
 

 

But it was obvious that this "glitch" can't be reproduced.People in the thread claimed he was lying.But he was just given a free pass.

[MonaSaxPayne]

I won't lie... u guys have a lot of patience

 

OP is like a toddler who no matter what its told, still continues to scream "but why?!?!?!"

[chrisredfield_97]

Just now, MonaSaxPayne said:

I won't lie... u guys have a lot of patience

 

OP is like a toddler who no matter what its told, still continues to scream "but why?!?!?!"

No?It's because the rules don't seem to apply to everyone.

[B1rvine]

The rules aren’t changing. 

[Stevieboy]

1 minute ago, chrisredfield_97 said:

No?It's because the rules don't seem to apply to everyone.

 

The rules apply to everyone. How they're enforced differs depending on the situation. The 2 situations you linked and your own situation are 3 completely different situations that had the rules applied to each of them and had different results, because they were all different.

[chrisredfield_97]

Just now, B1rvine said:

The rules aren’t changing. 

But rules can be bent depending on the person.Right?Got it.

[SzzMN]

Honestly just pack it in, I get that you don’t agree with the rule, IMO all of the rules from the CRT make sense except the teams are allowed rule complete crap in my honest opinion because a team account took over the leaderboards for a few call of duty games technically creating impossible time stamps and I have to be “2nd best”. But hey it’s allowed, does it really annoy me? Yes Can I go a different site? Yes, will I? No because this site is by far the best for tracking and moderation. The rules are clearly laid out and while not perfect by any means they make sense for the most part. They’re available to very clearly read and you didn’t follow them. If you really cared you would just start over and mould your account into what you wanted it to be but instead you choose not too.
Also for obvious reasons I won’t mention the normal leaderboards are an absolute joke but maybe you do care if you did once again make a new account.

Edited August 6, 2022 by SzzMN