Xbox CEO just gives up

[dimonemt]

4 hours ago, Dark_Overlord said:

 

Bayonetta is a bad example.  Sega shelved it, neither MS nor Sony were interested in funding it, but Nintendo was.  If not for Nintendo, there wouldn't of been a Bayonetta 2 or 3.

 

All i'm trying to say is when an IP or a studio, or a corporation(Bethesda) changes hands for whatever circumstances, new owners will dictate the rules. I don't get the argument about them being multiplatform for years, therefore they should stay that way. As much as i want it to be the case, Bayonetta situation will be applied here: we likely will not see any new games or IP's outside of Xbox/PC for some time.

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by dimonemt

[Rozalia1]

55 minutes ago, dimonemt said:

All i'm trying to say is when an IP or a studio, or a corporation(Bethesda) changes hands for whatever circumstances, new owners will dictate the rules. I don't get the argument about them being multiplatform for years, therefore they should stay that way. As much as i want it to be the case, Bayonetta situation will be applied here: we likely will not see any new games or IP's outside of Xbox/PC for some time.

 

Nintendo does not own the developers of Bayonetta nor do they own the IP. They own the rights to 2 & 3 as a result of having funded those games.

 

By the Minecraft argument people make so often Elder Scrolls/Starfield should not be exclusives. Do you agree that Microsoft is lying in regards to Minecraft? Also again, Microsoft is the only console platform holder doing what you've outlined. You talk as if it is just a commonly done thing when it ain't.

2 hours ago, miickomadyoke_- said:

i agree the one thing i never understand is they dont try exclusives, Sony have proven what a good single player exclusive can do for sales/popularity its like xbox dont care or they haven't got the interest in doing it. the last one i can think of that was even a small attempt was sunset overdive on the xbox one in 2013 and that was mediocre in comparison to infamous second son at the time. Also the trophy system is miles better than achievments

 

They can't. Day 1 gamepass and on PC is stupid business and everyone knows it, but only if we're talking normal business. Microsoft's aim is to destroy the traditional market and devalue games so people no longer want to buy them, instead subscribing for them. Xbox going down is unimportant if it takes at least PlayStation down with it.

[AJ_-_808]

4 hours ago, dimonemt said:

 

All i'm trying to say is when an IP or a studio, or a corporation(Bethesda) changes hands for whatever circumstances, new owners will dictate the rules. I don't get the argument about them being multiplatform for years, therefore they should stay that way. As much as i want it to be the case, Bayonetta situation will be applied here: we likely will not see any new games or IP's outside of Xbox/PC for some time.

 

Literally, yes you are correct. New owners = new rules.

 

The problem is they outright lied about "not taking games away from anyone" by making said future titles of established ips exclusive and by canceling two titles that were already in development for ps.

 

Realistically, by doing this, they likely piss off more people than they "convert". The better thing to do would've been to leave the established titles multiplatform and use the studio's to make something new as exclusive 

[dimonemt]

8 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

They own the rights to 2 & 3 as a result of having funded those games.

 

Nintendo was funding those games, yes, and Microsoft is now funding games that are being made by Bethesda. It's still the same no matter how you look at it, even if the circumstances that led to said funding are different.

8 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

By the Minecraft argument people make so often Elder Scrolls/Starfield should not be exclusives.

 

My guess is it has to be the shear number of Minecraft's sales and active player base. 50 million copies sold at the time of Mojang's acquisition by Microsoft in 2014. 238 million copies sold by 2021 with 140 million active players. Minecraft is so big that no amount of gains from Xbox/PC exclusivity will likely offset losses resulting from said exclusivity. Nothing in Zenimax's portfolio comes even close to these numbers. At the time of Bethesda's acquisition Phil Spencer said in an interview that the question of exclusivity will be determined on a case by case basis, and it was likely calculated that making Elder Scrolls, Starfield, etc. exclusive to PC/Xbox will boost the popularity of a console and Gamepass subscription. Minecraft, however, is in a different league and it probably will never become exclusive to any platform alongside with games like Fortnite, GTA or Call of Duty.

8 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

Do you agree that Microsoft is lying in regards to Minecraft?

 

Honestly i don't know what you are talking about here. At the time of Mojang's acquisiton they said that the game will remain multiplatform and it did. I can't think of any Minecraft related game that was withheld from PlayStation.

If you are talking about them saying "not taking the games away from anyone", i read it as "not taking existing games away from anyone". Several titles from Bethesda's catalog were recently made available via PlayStation Plus Extra for us to enjoy. As for upcoming titles like Starfield and Elder Scrolls, we are back to square one with new owner, new rules argument.

Edited May 31, 2023 by dimonemt

[Rozalia1]

10 hours ago, dimonemt said:

Nintendo was funding those games, yes, and Microsoft is now funding games that are being made by Bethesda. It's still the same no matter how you look at it, even if the circumstances that led to said funding are different.

 

Stop trying to make both things to be the same. They are not. If they want to make Bayonetta 4 multiplatform they can. If they want to get 2 & 3 elsewhere they might well be able to get it out of Nintendo. There is no such thing with Microsoft.

 

10 hours ago, dimonemt said:

My guess is it has to be the shear number of Minecraft's sales and active player base. 50 million copies sold at the time of Mojang's acquisition by Microsoft in 2014. 238 million copies sold by 2021 with 140 million active players. Minecraft is so big that no amount of gains from Xbox/PC exclusivity will likely offset losses resulting from said exclusivity. Nothing in Zenimax's portfolio comes even close to these numbers. At the time of Bethesda's acquisition Phil Spencer said in an interview that the question of exclusivity will be determined on a case by case basis, and it was likely calculated that making Elder Scrolls, Starfield, etc. exclusive to PC/Xbox will boost the popularity of a console and Gamepass subscription. Minecraft, however, is in a different league and it probably will never become exclusive to any platform alongside with games like Fortnite, GTA or Call of Duty.

 

Honestly i don't know what you are talking about here. At the time of Mojang's acquisiton they said that the game will remain multiplatform and it did. I can't think of any Minecraft related game that was withheld from PlayStation.

If you are talking about them saying "not taking the games away from anyone", i read it as "not taking existing games away from anyone". Several titles from Bethesda's catalog were recently made available via PlayStation Plus Extra for us to enjoy. As for upcoming titles like Starfield and Elder Scrolls, we are back to square one with new owner, new rules argument.

 

Skyrim sold 30 million which is close to 50 million relatively speaking for a high selling game. So again, why isn't Elder Scrolls/Starfield multiplatform. In fact, CoD which is so big time that Microsoft apparently simply can't make it exclusive has most of their games under 30 million, with only one at 30 million. The point of me asking you if you then agree that Microsoft lied regarding Minecraft is that quite simply by the metrics of Minecraft games like Starfield, and indeed CoD if they got it, should be multiplatform. CoD they're shouting will be multiplatform, but only because they've been essentially forced to do so to help the deal, and even then everyone knows that after 10 years that will very likely change.

 

Please, don't be here doing such talk. As stated already, Spencer before the buyout was saying that it wasn't about taking games away from people and the moment the deal went through stated that it was about exclusive games. At best, the idea from him was that obviously he was lying and only an idiot would have believed him, hence why I and many others didn't rightly believe him, but it is tiring to keep hearing this defence you're going with here. I know that you don't believe this "case by case basis" malarkey, and you know that I know that you don't believe it. So let us not waste time yeah? Your defence there doesn't even work when we know that Microsoft straight up had PS5 versions of Starfield and Redfall, which would have been the lead platform by the way (according to the green guys they're convinced it was certainly for Redfall), cancelled. Ah but they weren't announced for PS5 I can hear you preparing to respond with. No, do not bother. When they announced Starfield/Redfall no one, absolutely zero people, had it in their mind that it was going to be a Xbox exclusive.

 

What you seem to not be getting is that I and others don't actually have a problem with these Bethesda games being exclusives. They are the bosses as they say and if they wanted to make them all mobile games then that would also be their choice. What I and others have problems with is lies and these nonsense defences that get spread by the astroturfers and then spread by others in turn. If Microsoft was going to make those games exclusives then fine, just say so, don't play a song and dance about it. If Microsoft was legitimate in what they say then Starfield/Redfall and some other games would have been multiplatform based off what Microsoft stated. Going forward beyond those games? No one could take issue with them being exclusive as they'd have started completely under Microsoft.

[Ashande]

3 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

[…]

 

If Microsoft was going to make those games exclusives then fine, just say so, don't play a song and dance about it. If Microsoft was legitimate in what they say then Starfield/Redfall and some other games would have been multiplatform based off what Microsoft stated. Going forward beyond those games? No one could take issue with them being exclusive as they'd have started completely under Microsoft.

 

Microsoft has been doing that song and dance for nearly 50 years now; no reason for them to change at this point, since even when they are “punished” or “penalized” for it, it ultimately has almost no impact on the bottom line. Their strategy from day 1 has been to invade a space, take what they can from it, run off and use the spoils of their conquest in increasingly draconian and prohibitive ways while strangling out or buying out the competition, then smiling, laughing, paying whatever stupidly minor fine they’ve been hit with this time while pocketing millions… and for some reason people will leap to defend them - witness the rumblings as we “evolved” from PC-DOS into MS-DOS and later Windows, the shenanigans going on in the Commodore and Tandy spaces as MS got into the combo “BASIC compiler/OS” sphere, the Internet Explorer vs. Netscape Navigator war or some of the BS around the chipset for the 360 (and the fallout that caused for Apple at the time, which makes me wonder sometimes if that was actually the point) - or at the very least put on blinders and say “Nothing to see here!”

[dimonemt]

4 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

If they want to get 2 & 3 elsewhere they might well be able to get it out of Nintendo.

 

Please name modern franchise that Nintendo funded, that later became multiplatform.

I stand by my opinion.

 

4 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

 

Skyrim sold 30 million which is close to 50 million

 

15 hours ago, dimonemt said:

238 million copies sold by 2021 with 140 million active players. Nothing in Zenimax's portfolio comes even close to these numbers.

 

You are proving my point here, and yet still don't understand why Starfield is becoming an exclusive, are you?

4 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

CoD they're shouting will be multiplatform, but only because they've been essentially forced to do so to help the deal, and even then everyone knows that after 10 years that will very likely change.

 

The ABK deal is not final yet, and you are worried about Call of Duty not being on PlayStation after 2033?

 

Anyway, i've spoken my mind. I'm not here to change anyones opinion. Everyone should think for themselves. I've been gaming on PlayStation for 12 years now and this is the first time when i don't like what i see, and where the things are going. But that is another discussion entirely.

[Rozalia1]

3 hours ago, Ashande said:

Microsoft has been doing that song and dance for nearly 50 years now; no reason for them to change at this point, since even when they are “punished” or “penalized” for it, it ultimately has almost no impact on the bottom line. Their strategy from day 1 has been to invade a space, take what they can from it, run off and use the spoils of their conquest in increasingly draconian and prohibitive ways while strangling out or buying out the competition, then smiling, laughing, paying whatever stupidly minor fine they’ve been hit with this time while pocketing millions… and for some reason people will leap to defend them - witness the rumblings as we “evolved” from PC-DOS into MS-DOS and later Windows, the shenanigans going on in the Commodore and Tandy spaces as MS got into the combo “BASIC compiler/OS” sphere, the Internet Explorer vs. Netscape Navigator war or some of the BS around the chipset for the 360 (and the fallout that caused for Apple at the time, which makes me wonder sometimes if that was actually the point) - or at the very least put on blinders and say “Nothing to see here!”

 

Completely agree. When it comes to the reason, astroturfing, and the sheer amount that they do causing some people to go along with the view as they come to believe that it is a normal view that plenty of people have. Microsoft has used it to repair their shattered reputation from back in the day, but the CMA block helped crack it and make some people see through the illusion. I hope it continues to break down because if Microsoft becomes unable to successfully astroturf then that is some real bad news for them. As Steve Jobs said, they're a tasteless company and that doesn't exactly attract much in the way of real fans, hence their need to pay for fake ones.

 

1 hour ago, dimonemt said:

Please name modern franchise that Nintendo funded, that later became multiplatform.

I stand by my opinion.

 

You are proving my point here, and yet still don't understand why Starfield is becoming an exclusive, are you?

 

The Wonderful 101. Even from the same developers as Bayonetta. Fatal Frame: Mask of the Lunar Eclipse and then future games after it are another. I'm not going to bother to go through the whole catalogue because already the point is made that you are simply incorrect. You going to stand by your opinion that what Nintendo and Microsoft have done is the same now?

 

If I was making your point you'd be able to explain how, yet you didn't. Please don't try such tricks with me. Minecraft had sold 50 million when Microsoft bought them, not the 200+ figure. 50 is the ballpark of expectations of Elder Scrolls/Starfield if multiplatform, so why are they not multiplatform. Heck, CoD is only at best that high and yet it is multiplatform because it would lose Microsoft too much money if it wasn't (because Microsoft cares about bleeding money in gaming), yet somehow this doesn't apply to Elder Scrolls/Starfield. Perhaps what you're actually putting forward is that Microsoft would be willing if Elder Scrolls/Starfield had a 200+ million expectation, something that no game has, in which case again, why are you lying to me here by pushing this "case by case basis" nonsense. The basis that CoD they aim to have be multiplatform is because of regulator heat, nothing more. Hence why I've said that I don't believe Microsoft kept Minecraft's expansions multiplatform because they decided to, they were much more likely forced into it.

 

2 hours ago, dimonemt said:

Anyway, i've spoken my mind. I'm not here to change anyones opinion. Everyone should think for themselves. I've been gaming on PlayStation for 12 years now and this is the first time when i don't like what i see, and where the things are going. But that is another discussion entirely.

 

Ah, what a surprise. Doesn't like the direction Sony is going, yet Microsoft who has been going in the wrong direction for... 15 years by this point? Playing defence for them.

[Zephrese]

3 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

Ah, what a surprise. Doesn't like the direction Sony is going, yet Microsoft who has been going in the wrong direction for... 15 years by this point? Playing defence for them.

 

I find it extra amusing considering that the only direction Microsoft has seemingly been going in with their games specifically as of late is releasing them in a half-assed state (if they release any games at all). The poor and lackluster support for Halo: Infinite's multiplayer has been thoroughly criticized by everyone (even within the Xbox community, although I guess 343's always been kind of a disappointment regardless), and Redfall was an absolute fucking mess that put a stain on the legacy of an otherwise highly respected studio. Guarantee that Activision Blizzard's usual fuckups will continue under Microsoft if the deal does go through, which will make this even more laughable.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Zephrese

[dimonemt]

5 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

You going to stand by your opinion that what Nintendo and Microsoft have done is the same now?

 

Ok, I'll give you 0.1% here, and say that I'm 99.9% right.

 

5 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

50 is the ballpark of expectations of Elder Scrolls/Starfield if multiplatform

 

Maybe, but Minecraft had sold 5 times that number since it's acquisition by MS. One would think that before shelling 2.5 billion for Mojang Microsoft would have calculated the return on their investment, and it worked out brilliantly for them.

Starfield and Elder Scrolls are not as popular as Minecraft, so the calculation was likely made to favor Xbox/PC exclusivity instead of going multiplatform. That's what i'm assuming that was. Just like in the movie Godfather: nothing personal, it's just business.

 

5 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

Doesn't like the direction Sony is going, yet Microsoft who has been going in the wrong direction for... 15 years by this point? Playing defence for them.

 

On the other hand if i get deeply entrenched in a console wars, how would i know what both sides are doing and which direction are they going? I agree that Xbox One generation was a compete trainwreck for Microsoft, while Sony was doing great job for PlayStation players. This generation i don't have those views anymore.

 

At this point i don't think that there is anything we can say to each other that can change our mind, or will lead to a productive discussion. So i think it's best to leave it at that, and have us agree to disagree.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by dimonemt

[Rozalia1]

8 minutes ago, dimonemt said:

Ok, I'll give you 0.1% here, and say that I'm 99.9% right.

 

Of course. Even when proven wrong you're still correct. I will say again, what Nintendo and Microsoft has done is not the same. Nintendo in the cases you bring up funded those games which made them exclusives to their console yes. However, Nintendo in the process didn't get the IP and as the games I've brought up show, the developers can even get the game on other consoles later if they truly wish to do it. That is not the case with Microsoft. They own the IP and will not allow them to put it on PlayStation regardless of what they might want.

 

12 minutes ago, dimonemt said:

Maybe, but Minecraft had sold 5 times that number since it's acquisition by MS. One would think that before shelling 2.5 billion for Mojang Microsoft would calculate the return on their investment, and it worked brilliantly for them.

Starfield and Elder Scrolls are not as popular as Minecraft, so the calculation was likely made to favor Xbox/PC exclusivity instead of going multiplatform. That's what i'm assuming that was. Just like in the movie Godfather: nothing personal, it's just business.

 

You believe that Microsoft calculated that they'd be able to sell 200+ million copies of Minecraft? The company whose gaming business is collapsing year on year and they have to mask it by hiding most figures, and the figure that they do provide, revenue, is heavily boosted by their many buyouts. Even MAU which is another they provide they cook the books on by counting MAU on everything their games are connected to against the PlayStation on its own. Again, if "case by case basis" means "will this game sell 200+ million" and if not then we'll make it exclusive then they're lying. Outside possibly GTA6, no game is going to get projected to sell that much.

 

18 minutes ago, dimonemt said:

On the other hand if i get deeply entrenched in a console wars, how would i know what both sides are doing and which direction are they going? I agree that Xbox One generation was a compete trainwreck for Microsoft, while Sony was doing great job for PlayStation players. This generation i don't have those views anymore.

At this point i don't think that there is anything we can say to each other that can change our mind, or will lead to a productive discussion. So i think it's best to leave it at that, and have us agree to disagree.

 

Predictably, bringing up console wars is the next part in the story. Yes yes, Microsoft are real good boys now unlike before. Remind me, who was it that tried to double the cost of their basic subscription at no gain to the consumer again? Who has been so focused on their PR, astroturfing, buyouts, attacking Japan as corrupt, and even threatening countries with consequences if they are opposed, that they've shown no care to how their games release? Speaking of buyouts, what benefit has Microsoft bought the consumer by buying out multiplatform companies and then cancelling only the PlayStation versions? What benefit does Microsoft's attempt at destroying the traditional gaming market to move it to subscriptions which we know and have evidence of will lead to lower quality games bring?

 

No there certainly isn't. I've seen everything you've been saying already word for word. Got problems with Sony? Sure, get in line. Plenty on here have criticised Sony and there is no issue with that. All the Microsoft defending though with statements and narratives straight from their shills? Come on now. Why don't you defend Sony/Nintendo like that? Why just Microsoft? I hope you've simply been taken in, in which case take the advice of your previous post on thinking for yourself.

[dimonemt]

 

40 minutes ago, Rozalia1 said:

All the Microsoft defending though with statements and narratives straight from their shills?

 

You just don't know when to stop, do you? Not interested in your your boring accusations here. Stay salty. Bye Bye.

Edited June 1, 2023 by dimonemt

[Rozalia1]

 

Story came out on Redfall. 70% of the original studio is gone. Devs had hoped Microsoft would come in, see the mess, and tell them to do something else. Microsoft came in, told them to cancel the PS5 version, and left without a care. Note that the defence of 'but they cancelled Scalebound and got bad PR for it, so damned if you do and damned if you don't'. No. Redfall was announced by Microsoft later. If they had cancelled it then it would have been one of many games that are in development, are never announced, and are cancelled. Nothing notable about that.

 

Side note. Many thanks to Microsoft for cancelling the PS5 version.

 

13 hours ago, dimonemt said:

You just don't know when to stop, do you? Not interested in your your boring accusations here. Stay salty. Bye Bye.

 

When I saw your original comment I was just going to leave it as there is no need for me to point out how thoroughly trounced you had been, but the fact you came back an hour later all to edit in "stay salty" is both revealing and hilarious.

[SnowxSakura]

22 hours ago, dimonemt said:

 

Please name modern franchise that Nintendo funded, that later became multiplatform.

I stand by my opinion.

 

 

 

You are proving my point here, and yet still don't understand why Starfield is becoming an exclusive, are you?

 

The ABK deal is not final yet, and you are worried about Call of Duty not being on PlayStation after 2033?

 

Anyway, i've spoken my mind. I'm not here to change anyones opinion. Everyone should think for themselves. I've been gaming on PlayStation for 12 years now and this is the first time when i don't like what i see, and where the things are going. But that is another discussion entirely.

Well, Fatal Frame 4 and 5 were both funded by Nintendo and recently got ported to playstation, xbox, and pc

[dimonemt]

1 hour ago, SnowxSakura said:

Well, Fatal Frame 4 and 5 were both funded by Nintendo and recently got ported to playstation, xbox, and pc

 

I see, i guess it' not as uncommon as i thought it was, at least for Wii and WiiU generation.

[Rozalia1]

We've gotten the news that the Switch has halted the PS5's domination and has actually outsold it in May. Tears of the Kingdom released in May and so is the likely reseaon. 

 

It turns out that great games sell consoles. Who could have foreseen this? Not Xbox's management clearly.

[cy1999aek_maik]

1 hour ago, Rozalia1 said:

We've gotten the news that the Switch has halted the PS5's domination and has actually outsold it in May. Tears of the Kingdom released in May and so is the likely reseaon. 

 

It turns out that great games sell consoles. Who could have foreseen this? Not Xbox's management clearly.

Not gonna lie I was at a game shop about a week ago and I was really tempted to buy a switch, but I just bought hogwarts legacy instead

[DarkHpokinsn]

On 5/9/2023 at 1:43 PM, Rokukou2 said:

I truly hope Xbox recovers because the game consoles need to be more competitive and Sony is greedy as hell and don't want them to get more greedy.

That last part just sounds like projection man lol  You’re like an Xbox PR account.