New Guide Tags

[Monk746]

I've written a few guides now, and one of the more annoying parts of using tags, is how limited they are. Aside from that, some of them seem rather bizzare to have been thought of prior to others that havn't been implemented as of yet. Such types of trophies for instance would be "50 headshot kills", "burn 25 enemies", kill 75 soldiers", and "explode 10 fire barrels". trophies such as these do not fall under any tag, the closest ones they "could" fall under is the grind tag, but stuff like that really isn't a grind, so It wouldn't make sense to tag them as such. So here are a few:

 

Battle Collective

For non-grind trophies relating to trophies earned in a "battle sense". Such as killing X number of some type of enemy in a certain way, or just killing them in any way. This would of course be a low number, something that would most likely, or easily, be earned while playing through story with the trophy's unlock conditions in mind. Another example would be something that requires the "battle" form of the gameplay to earn multiple times, but could be done without actually fighting an enemy. Like exploding/breaking X number of objects.

 

Triggered

Trophies earned by simply fullfiling the condition once. Something like "activate rage mode", "perfom a succeful counter attack", "kill three enemies simutaniously", "land a 50 hit combo",  and other types of trophies that don't have a hidden cumulative factor.

 

Challenging

Trophies that relate to something so insanely difficult that it will likely be the one trophy keeping you from platinum. Some games have that 1 (sometimes 2) trophies that are the sole reason as to why that overal platinum is so difficult. This wouldn't be a tag relating to the story, so "beat the game on the hardest difficulty" wouldn't count. Trophies like, and to be more specific, "Flawless Raider on Destiny" and "Tactical Challenger on Vanquish".

 

RNG Based

Trophies relating to something that you can't fully control. Like needing an item to upgrade a weapon for a trophy, but that item can ONLY be obtained from one place, which has a low chance of producing it (or dropping it if it's produced from a slain enemy). This could sometimes be used with the grind tag as well since these sometimes require a grind depending on what the trophy conditions are exactly.

 

These are the only ones I can think of at this time, but of all the trophies in my guides without tags, they all relate to at least one of these mentioned tags.

[StrickenBiged]

I don't see a need for Triggered. Not every trophy needs a tag, and this one seems unnecessary if the trophy description is clear.

 

I'm not sure about Battle Collective either. If the trophy description is clear, e.g. "Kill 50 enemies with the FAL", then it seems redundant. But it might be useful if the description is obtuse, like "Become a FAL master!".

 

RNG is a good suggestion. 

 

I don't really see the need for Challenging either. All trophies might be a challenge, depending on the player. I suck at shooters, so even 10 headshots is a tall order for me on a lot of FPS games. Many other players might find this to be really easy. To address your point directly: the trophy rarity is already displayed so it's obvious to the reader already which trophies are stopping players from getting the plat.

[Asuka Langley]

We don't need Challenging we have a dificulty tag for the guide itself, which is based on its hardest trophy, iirc at least.

 

Battle Collective if it's a large enough group of enemies and fights comes under Grind, same with the RNG

 

As for triggered, they just come under normal misc. trophies, no need for an extra tag on them.

[Conker]

What about one for luck based?

[Dragon-Archon]

I agree that Battle Collective, Triggered and Challenging are useless tags. RNG or Luck-based would be helpful, but this was suggested a while back and hasn't been implemented (yet?). I just use the Grind tag for luck-based trophies to notify gamers that it's an annoying trophy.

 

https://psnprofiles.com/forums/topic/22422-luck-based-trophy-tag-in-guides/?view=findpost&p=481151&hl=%2Bguide+%2Btag

 

What about one for luck based?

That's the same as RNG

Edited March 25, 2015 by Dragon-Archon

[StrickenBiged]

 comes under Grind, same with the RNG

 

 

An RNG trophy might not be a grind. What if you got lucky with the RNG and got the item or whatever on your first attempt? Hardly a grind then is it?

[Asuka Langley]

An RNG trophy might not be a grind. What if you got lucky with the RNG and got the item or whatever on your first attempt? Hardly a grind then is it?

 

And for the people it takes several attempts to get?

 

K thanks.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Lubed-up Lilly

[StrickenBiged]

And for the people it takes several attempts to get?

 

K thanks.

 

Just saying that RNG does not necessarily equal grind. Of course it would probably result in a grind to get the drop, but not necessarily. Grind is strictly inaccurate to describe RNG, IMO.

 

But it's a narrow point, I grant you.

[Monk746]

Well isn't this getting shot down by random people. Tags are for groupings, or catogorization, so it really doesn't make sense why less than 50% of the trophies in a guide would have tags and the rest have none.

 

 

I agree that Battle Collective, Triggered and Challenging are useless tags. RNG or Luck-based would be helpful, but this was suggested a while back and hasn't been implemented (yet?). I just use the Grind tag for luck-based trophies to notify gamers that it's an annoying trophy.

 

 

Battle Collective are quite always the trophies that EVERY trophy hunter tries keeping in mind during their playthrough, so why not have these in a catagory at the top of a guide? Instead of having to scroll through periodically to make sure you are not forgetting any, as well as the guide writers prefered area/way to get them easiest.

 

 

And for the people it takes several attempts to get?

 

K thanks.

 

 

Not every RNG based trophy is a grind. With it being RNG based, you can only assume that you personally may or may not have to grind for it, depending on if RNGesus was on your side. A grind 10k kills for example is a grind without RNG. Several attempts aplies a number around 3-9, which only rarely can be considered a grind as is. Only exception could be something like 3-9 playthroughs for example.

 

 

I don't really see the need for Challenging either. All trophies might be a challenge, depending on the player. I suck at shooters, so even 10 headshots is a tall order for me on a lot of FPS games. Many other players might find this to be really easy. To address your point directly: the trophy rarity is already displayed so it's obvious to the reader already which trophies are stopping players from getting the plat.

 

 

An ultra rare trophy does not mean an EXTREAMLY DIFFICULT trophy, same goes with an ultra rare platinum. When deciding if the game your writing a guide for has a "challanging" trophy to use the tag on, it's pretty fucking stupid to take in account people that don't play that genre of game often, or people who play it often, but have very poor skill in said genre. This tag is used for something that is insanely difficult, and not, "oh you're not good at shooters? Well beating mission 9 on easy is going to be CHALLENGING."

 

EDIT: Not all games have an extreamly Challanging trophy. Some are harder than other, but my intentions for the tag are to be used for those few trophies that appear everynow and then on a game that is just insanely difficult.

 

I could understand why some would call "triggered" a useless tag, but it's a grouping/catagory, so it seems more pointless to not have one.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Monk746

[Dragon-Archon]

Well isn't this getting shot down by random people. 

Most (if not all) people who've posted here in this thread have written at least one guide. So I fail to see how were just 'random people'.

 

Battle Collective are quite always the trophies that EVERY trophy hunter tries keeping in mind during their playthrough, so why not have these in a catagory at the top of a guide? Instead of having to scroll through periodically to make sure you are not forgetting any, as well as the guide writers prefered area/way to get them easiest.

IMO the missable 'kill x amount of enemies' get a missable tag and others that come naturally during story progression can get an unmissable tag.

[MMDE]

I'd like to see RNG as a tag.

[Monk746]

Most (if not all) people who've posted here in this thread have written at least one guide. So I fail to see how were just 'random people'.

 

IMO the missable 'kill x amount of enemies' get a missable tag and others that come naturally during story progression can get an unmissable tag.

 

I wasn't saying "random" as in people that have no right contributing their opinions, but after re-reading it, I understand why you would think that was my intention.

 

A "missable" trophy is defined as a trophy that requires an entire new playthrough to obtain, ruling out all games featuring a chapter select, and any trophies that can essentially be done at any time during a playthrough, so "missable" isn't appropriate for such conditions. Getting something like "electrocute 25 enemies" isn't something garunteed to be earned naturally, but also isn't considered missable.

 

See Sly's Tagging Trophies section.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Monk746

[BlindMango]

I can see where you're coming form with some of these, but the tags also need to instantly make sense to readers. Things like "Battle Collective", "Triggered", "Challenging", and "RNG Based" are all extremely vague and would throw users off as to what they mean, readers basically shouldn't be expected to seek out a definition for any tags. They should be named well enough to where the reader can at least make an educated guess about a tag and be at least fairly close to its meaning.

[Dragon-Archon]

I can see where you're coming form with some of these, but the tags also need to instantly make sense to readers. Things like "Battle Collective", "Triggered", "Challenging", and "RNG Based" are all extremely vague and would throw users off as to what they mean, readers basically shouldn't be expected to seek out a definition for any tags. They should be named well enough to where the reader can at least make an educated guess about a tag and be at least fairly close to its meaning.

So what about the 'Luck-based' tag? The other thread I posted didn't have an explanation why it wouldn't be implemented.

[BlindMango]

So what about the 'Luck-based' tag? The other thread I posted didn't have an explanation why it wouldn't be implemented.

 

It's ultimately up to Sly as to what tags get added, I'm unable to add tags myself. I was saying the above that I doubt those tags would get added with their suggested names. I kinda like the idea of a luck-based tag, but I don't know if Sly likes the idea or not.

[Monk746]

I can see where you're coming form with some of these, but the tags also need to instantly make sense to readers. Things like "Battle Collective", "Triggered", "Challenging", and "RNG Based" are all extremely vague and would throw users off as to what they mean, readers basically shouldn't be expected to seek out a definition for any tags. They should be named well enough to where the reader can at least make an educated guess about a tag and be at least fairly close to its meaning.

 

I can understand "Battle Collective", but Triggered, Challenging and RNG Based are pretty straight forward. If those three could cause confusion, then Viral, Date Sensitive and even Solo or Co-op could easily lead to confusion with the same people. Even Stackable could be confusing. For instance, stackable could relate to trophies like, "10 head shot kills" and 50 head shot kills" where one stacks onto the other, but according to how Sly want's it, this tag is only to be used for difficulty trophies.

[Satoshi Ookami]

RNG (even though I would be for luck based name more) is a tag that definitely should be implemented.

The others mentioned in this thread are covered by the already present tags.

Triggered is pretty much under Story, Battle Collective under Grind (anything else than what you get by normal play should be considered grind imo) and Challenging would be totally subjective and it should be shown by the higher difficulty number in the actual guide. Plus, you can also mention it in guide.

[Arkthur]

What about one for luck based?

Sounds better than RNG....imo

I really think we should get this one. All the others, I don't really find them necessary.

[Monk746]

RNG (even though I would be for luck based name more) is a tag that definitely should be implemented.

The others mentioned in this thread are covered by the already present tags.

Triggered is pretty much under Story, Battle Collective under Grind (anything else than what you get by normal play should be considered grind imo) and Challenging would be totally subjective and it should be shown by the higher difficulty number in the actual guide. Plus, you can also mention it in guide.

 

How is "successfully counter and attack" a story related trophy?

How is "kill 25 enemies with fire" a grind?

How does "luck based" sound better than "RNG"?

A game with 9/10 difficulty doesn't mean it has a trophy in it that's considered "challenging", and an Ultra Rare platinum doesn't mean the game's very difficult.

 

A trophy that can be earned by simply activating or triggering something in game that has nothing to do with story, is not a story related trophy.

A trophy that requires 1 action to be done several times, but can be done in a small amount of time, is not a grind.

[Satoshi Ookami]

How is "successfully counter and attack" a story related trophy?

If you can't miss it?

Okay, maybe not story, but unmissable.

 

 

How is "kill 25 enemies with fire" a grind?

If it doesn't come naturally, it has to be considered grind.

If it does come, it's unmissable.

 

 

How does "luck based" sound better than "RNG"?

It covers everything RNG does and even more.

 

 

A game with 9/10 difficulty doesn't mean it has a trophy in it that's considered "challenging", and an Ultra Rare platinum doesn't mean the game's very difficult.

Um... how? If a game is considered 9/10, how can it have easy trophies for most players? 

Unless it's a trolling which is eliminated by guide team checking the guides before publishing them.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Satoshi Ookami

[Monk746]

If you can't miss it?

Okay, maybe not story, but unmissable.

 

Missable is defined by something requiring an entire new playthrough in order to obtain it... if missed.

Unmissable is defined as a non-story related trophy that you are guaranteed to get through normal play, without having to go out of your way to get it.

A "simultaneously electrocute 5 enemies" type of trophy is not missable, nor is it unmissable.

 

 

If it doesn't come naturally, it has to be considered grind.

If it does come, it's unmissable.

 

A grind is defined by something that will take up a large amount of time.

Something like "10 head shot kills" can be done at any time, and even in less than 5 minutes on nearly any FPS game.

 

 

It covers everything RNG does and even more.

 

Would you mind elaborating on "even more"?

RNG is more of a formal term, while "luck based" applies a non existent value.

Anyone can call themselves lucky, but in a game, you're working with RNG.

 

 

Um... how? If a game is considered 9/10, how can it have easy trophies for most players? 

Unless it's a trolling which is eliminated by guide team checking the guides before publishing them.

 

Take into consideration Metal Gear Rising: Revengance. It's a rather difficult game which also has a few semi difficult trophies, but no one would say it's a 4/10 difficult game if "one or two" trophies were to be removed.

Another type of example is Destiny. The guy who wrote the guide here on PSNP rated it a 9/10 because of ONE or TWO trophies.

The trophies in Demon Souls and Dark Souls are pretty easy, but the game itself is rather difficult, so that's another example.

Getting the platinum in Demons Souls for example, pretty much just requires you to beat the game, and implements some RNG for a few trophies as well.

 

Try taking a look at Sly's Tagging Trophies section, because you have already inaccurately defined how some of these tags are to be used.

 

Not to be insulting, but I feel as if I'm trying to describe colors to the blind.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Monk746

[StrickenBiged]

 

Another type of example is Destiny. The guy who wrote the guide here on PSNP rated it a 9/10 because of ONE or TWO trophies.

 

 

Maybe it's just me, but I thought this was entirely appropriate. You can't get the Plat without obtaining the most difficult trophy in the game, ergo the platinum difficulty should be rated according to the most difficult trophy in the game. 

 

 

The trophies in Demon Souls and Dark Souls are pretty easy, but the game itself is rather difficult, so that's another example.

Getting the platinum in Demons Souls for example, pretty much just requires you to beat the game, and implements some RNG for a few trophies as well.

 

IMO, the difficulty of the gameplay is irrelevant to a trophy guide. If a game is really hard, but the trophies could be cheesed, then the plat is not hard.

 

For example, see Smart As. To get the plat, you have to play the various mini-games on the highest difficulty setting. In order to unlock the next difficulty for any given mini-game you have to beat the previous difficulty with a 3 star rating, OR fail it on 5 different dates.

 

That game is really hard on the higher difficulties, but the plat is really easy because you can just replay (and fail) a minigame 5 times to unlock the next difficulty for that mini-game. So it is an easy grind that you could do while watching TV. 

[Monk746]

Maybe it's just me, but I thought this was entirely appropriate. You can't get the Plat without obtaining the most difficult trophy in the game, ergo the platinum difficulty should be rated according to the most difficult trophy in the game.

 

I believe (and have implemented such with my guides) that the "platinum" difficulty should relate to the difficulty of it's hardest trophy (but grind does not mean difficult).

My point in that single line, which I believe you missed, is that it's a reply with an example to what the other person was saying. But singling out one part of the reply is rather useless.

 

 

IMO, the difficulty of the gameplay is irrelevant to a trophy guide. If a game is really hard, but the trophies could be cheesed, then the plat is not hard.

 

For example, see Smart As. To get the plat, you have to play the various mini-games on the highest difficulty setting. In order to unlock the next difficulty for any given mini-game you have to beat the previous difficulty with a 3 star rating, OR fail it on 5 different dates.

 

That game is really hard on the higher difficulties, but the plat is really easy because you can just replay (and fail) a minigame 5 times to unlock the next difficulty for that mini-game. So it is an easy grind that you could do while watching TV. 

 

We're not talking about "cheesable" trophies here.

We're talking about difficult games, that have easy trophies IF the game isn't too hard for the player (in this specific example). I don't find Demon Souls (for example) hard, which makes its trophies very easy, but most people find it too difficult to even beat.

[Dragon-Archon]

IMO this is getting way out of hand. In the end Sly decides if new tags are added. I've notified him of this thread and we'll see if he adds new tags or not.

[Monk746]

I'm unsure what you mean by "getting out of hand", but I suppose we'll see if he even reads this.