ToaOfMirrors Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Hello, I have just been flagged for the game Birth By Sleep Final Mix, and I want to dispute the flag, but I don't know how. I believe it was because I received a bunch of after the end of the game achievements before I unlocked the basic game-play achievements. I did not hack the games or use someone else's save files to accomplish this; I beat the game fair and square on my PSP first. I simply figured out how to import those saves to a PS3, because BBSFM and BBSHD use the same save-game format. That's the only reason the time-stamps are a little iffy, so if that's the reason, it's not fair. What does a flag on a game do to a user anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYuriG Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) What does a flag on a game do to a user anyway? You lose access to some core functions of the site, like Gaming Sessions and leaderboards, but that is pretty much it. Try contacting a mod about your situation, putting threads up aren't recommended, shit can get nasty, althought I find pretty weird someone would cheat some trophies but not plat the game, or any of the others, for that matter and still have a low percentage as 24%. EDIT: Uh... you are famous... I guess https://psnprofiles.com/forums/topic/31964-critical-completer-trophy/unread/ Edited October 24, 2015 by TheYuriG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleggworth Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 There have been a hell of a lot of these threads recently. Might it be an idea to add a 'Dispute Flag' button to flagged profiles which takes you to a form you can fill in rather than topics being posted all the time? No offense to the OP intended. You are a new poster so may not have seen this before but like Yuri said this thread will attract some pretty nasty comments before having to be locked by a mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Fly Spider-Guy Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Best of luck buddy...I have no experience at all in being flagged for getting trophies that were earned properly but the timestamps are out of normal order because of save copying from one of my machines to another, no experience with that at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMDE Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I beat the game fair and square on my PSP first. I simply figured out how to import those saves to a PS3, because BBSFM and BBSHD use the same save-game format. You don't need to dispute the flag then... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesk8vaincra Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Is using your own savegame considered cheating? I would say no. But then, how can people tell if it is trully your own save, and not a save you downloaded from internet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dernop Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) I simply figured out how to import those saves to a PS3, because BBSFM and BBSHD use the same save-game format. That's the only reason the time-stamps are a little iffy, so if that's the reason, it's not fair. What does a flag on a game do to a user anyway? "figured out how to 'import' to ps3" is save tampering/hacking, no matter how you put it. i know we just recently had this discussion, where sly (the site owner) himself said that using your own saves (via cloud or backup) to mess with trophy timestamps, for trophy-speedruns for example, isn't considered cheating. but you have to draw the line somewhere... and i guess this line is crossed when you have to use questionable, third-party tools to "figure out a way to import saves". some people figured out ways to "import" saves from the internet to their ps3, too. Edited October 24, 2015 by dernop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satoshi Ookami Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Is using your own savegame considered cheating? I would say no. But then, how can people tell if it is trully your own save, and not a save you downloaded from internet? To pop up the whole game or to just continue? To pop up is definitely cheating but to just continue no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMDE Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 To pop up the whole game or to just continue? To pop up is definitely cheating but to just continue no. It's cheating either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satoshi Ookami Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) It's cheating either way. That depends on point of view. As dernop mentioned, Sly himself did mention that manipulating with your own save is not considered cheating (ref. Injustice thread about the quickest achiever). So yea, it can be considered cheating but it's not labeled as such process on this site. Edited October 24, 2015 by Satoshi Ookami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mittoucp Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 EDIT: Uh... you are famous... I guess https://psnprofiles.com/forums/topic/31964-critical-completer-trophy/unread/ Wow, one day the guy makes a thread reporting him, the next he's flagged - that's efficient. Anyway, I hope you get this problem solved, I've never been flagged myself but there should be a way to dispute a flag on the site instead of directly messaging a mod - again I don't know if such a way exists but if it doesn't Sly should really implement it. Importing saves does seem a bit... but it shouldn't really lead to this as a lot of games have it legitly anyway now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xZoneHunter Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 That depends on point of view. As dernop mentioned, Sly himself did mention that manipulating with your own save is not considered cheating (ref. Injustice thread about the quickest achiever). So yea, it can be considered cheating but it's not labeled as such process on this site. From the moment you start using your PC to mess with your saves in any way, it's considered cheating. And i'm pretty sure you had to run your PSP saves through some sort of software to get it to run with a PS3 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMDE Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 That depends on point of view. As dernop mentioned, Sly himself did mention that manipulating with your own save is not considered cheating (ref. Injustice thread about the quickest achiever). So yea, it can be considered cheating but it's not labeled as such process on this site. Manipulating your own save is not considered cheating??? That's what most people who cheat do... The only thing I can see that is okay about it is if they adjust the save file to fit some other version of the game with the same trophy list, for example due to some DLC not being available in the country they are in, or a glitch in the game that affects a certain region or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dernop Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 From the moment you start using your PC to mess with your saves in any way, it's considered cheating. And i'm pretty sure you had to run your PSP saves through some sort of software to get it to run with a PS3 games. that's more or less what i was trying to say. basically everything is permitted as long as you can achieve it with you original/stock hardware (ps3/4/vita), the plain PSN service and no external 'tools'. "using your PC" as you put it, would be a bit too strict, since you can copy USB saves to your pc for example, so that you can have more than one backup save of a single game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesk8vaincra Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) It's cheating either way. i don't agree with that. Yeah, it is "breaking the rules", but cheating, in my opinion, also involves something that is "unfair". IF he really did finish the game by himself on his PSP, using his save on PS3 shouldn't be considered as cheating in my opinion. It is not unfair, since he would have beat the game himself. But i agree that it is reall hard to tell the difference between someone that downloaded a save and someone that transfered his save... To be honest, i don't see why he would download a not 100% savegame to pop only some trophies. So in my opinion, his story is much likely true. I don't believe he should be labelled as cheater. Edited October 24, 2015 by lesk8vaincra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMDE Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I beat the game fair and square on my PSP first. I simply figured out how to import those saves to a PS3, because BBSFM and BBSHD use the same save-game format. You've edited your save file to adjust your progress in the game, this is usually called cheating. It's like if I said I've beat Jak 1 101% or whatever on PS2 several times, I even got a save file for this, so then I can adjust my save file on PS3 to have a 101% completed save file on PS3 too. You have to replay the game on PS3 too, in fact each version of the game that has it's own trophy list. There is of course some games that offer a cross-save feature called save cloud or whatever, but that's the game designers giving you the option, so then it's fine. i don't agree with that. Yeah, it is "breaking the rules", but cheating, in my opinion, also involves something that is "unfair". IF he really did finish the game by himself on his PSP, using his save on PS3 shouldn't be considered as cheating in my opinion. But i agree that it is reall hard to tell the difference between someone that downloaded a save and someone that transfered his save... It is cheating. Same as it's cheating to do so cross versions of stacking trophy lists on PS3 too unless there is a cloud save feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xZoneHunter Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 that's more or less what i was trying to say. basically everything is permitted as long as you can achieve it with you original/stock hardware (ps3/4/vita), the plain PSN service and no external 'tools'. "using your PC" as you put it, would be a bit too strict, since you can copy USB saves to your pc for example, so that you can have more than one backup save of a single game! Well yeah, when you're just storing them you're not "messing" with your save files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesk8vaincra Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 It is cheating. Same as it's cheating to do so cross versions of stacking trophy lists on PS3 too unless there is a cloud save feature. That's an opinion, not a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMDE Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Well yeah, when you're just storing them you're not "messing" with your save files I think I know what he did, and he did have to do quite a lot to make this transfer. He may or may not have adjusted his progress, like given himself extra stuff, but it's not just to use your PSP save on PS3. He did at the very least decrypted the save file, possibly on both versions, and then copied/write over a certain amount of the data from one of the files to the other file, and then encrypted it again. That's an opinion, not a fact. Pretty sure it's cheating according to Sony, because he is editing the save files. While I understand that if it wasn't for trophies, it would have been totally acceptable. Like, he is just continuing where he left off from his PSP on his PS3, but the PSP doesn't share the trophy list. Would you be okay with people doing with games that stack and doesn't have cloud/cross save feature and HD remakes? That's an opinion, not a fact. Oh, and just to be clear, the PS3 version is a HD remake. It seems very fishy to me that they would even share the exact same save format. Edited October 24, 2015 by MMDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYuriG Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Gonna simply reply instead of quoting everyone. Manipulating save files is having multiple backups to avoid unnecessary backtracking, most of us did this at some point in trophy hunting (multiple endings, people???), I did a couple months ago to glitch cash in FUSE and buy all the perks. This isn't cheating. Modifying your save file (or anyone else's, for that matter), and by this I mean changing any information inside the file in order to render yourself any kind of advantages that you didn't have before, that is cheating. OP, unless you can provide information on how you did 'import' your savefile from PSP in some way any of us can repeat, I don't think your game is going to get unflagged. First thing I thought when I came here was that there was some kind of 'import save' option like Soul Sacrifice Delta has with the vanilla game. Google'd it a bit and didn't find anything else on the matter, but oh well, he is innocent until guilt is proven he isn't able to show how legit his method was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesk8vaincra Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Pretty sure it's cheating according to Sony, because he is editing the save files. While I understand that if it wasn't for trophies, it would have been totally acceptable. Like, he is just continuing where he left off from his PSP on his PS3, but the PSP doesn't share the trophy list. Would you be okay with people doing with games that stack and doesn't have cloud/cross save feature and HD remakes? Sony doesn't give an official tool to do that, but i think they just don't care what you do with savefiles. About the stacking thing, well, it depends why or how many times you do it. Someone that use a tool to import savegame from PSP or PS2 for every game he owns, or someone that does it for multiple version of the same game (US/EU/JP,...) could be identified as a cheater, because he would clearly do it only for trophies. In this case, the OP seems to be someone that play only a small amount of game, and doesn't especially care about trophies (look at his profile...). I don't see the point of flagging someone like him for that kind of almost borderline behaviour . He didn't even use a savegame to pop the platinum ! He just wants to play from where he stopped on PSP Oh, and just to be clear, the PS3 version is a HD remake. It seems very fishy to me that they would even share the exact same save format. looks like they do Gonna simply reply instead of quoting everyone. Manipulating save files is having multiple backups to avoid unnecessary backtracking, most of us did this at some point in trophy hunting (multiple endings, people???), I did a couple months ago to glitch cash in FUSE and buy all the perks. This isn't cheating. Modifying your save file (or anyone else's, for that matter), and by this I mean changing any information inside the file in order to render yourself any kind of advantages that you didn't have before, that is cheating. OP, unless you can provide information on how you did 'import' your savefile from PSP in some way any of us can repeat, I don't think your game is going to get unflagged. First thing I thought when I came here was that there was some kind of 'import save' option like Soul Sacrifice Delta has with the vanilla game. Google'd it a bit and didn't find anything else on the matter, but oh well, he is innocent until guilt is proven he isn't able to show how legit his method was. http://forum.xentax.com/viewtopic.php?t=13424 I'm pretty sure it is the same OP (toaofmirrors here, mirrorman there, those username are pretty close...) Edited October 24, 2015 by lesk8vaincra 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMDE Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Sony doesn't give an official tool to do that, but i think they just don't care what you do with savefiles. I'm pretty sure they stopped one of the biggest projects involved in this a couple of years ago, so I call bs on this. In fact, it can be used to reduce Sony's profits by avoiding micro transactions and playing some DLCs without having paid for them etc. About the stacking thing, well, it depends why or how many times you do it. Someone that use a tool to import savegame from PSP or PS2 for every game he owns, or someone that does it for multiple version of the same game (US/EU/JP,...) could be identified as a cheater, because he would clearly do it only for trophies. The result if he does it once or several times is the same. http://forum.xentax.com/viewtopic.php?t=13424 I'm pretty sure it is the same OP (toaofmirrors here, mirrorman there, those username are pretty close...) Yes, then he did do save file editing, just like 95%+ of everyone being flagged as cheaters. EDIT: I should perhaps not say 95%+ of those being flagged as cheaters, but a good chunk is. Edited October 24, 2015 by MMDE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xZoneHunter Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 In this case, the OP seems to be someone that play only a small amount of game, and doesn't especially care about trophies (look at his profile...). I don't see the point of flagging someone like him for that kind of almost borderline behaviour . He didn't even use a savegame to pop the platinum ! He just wants to play from where he stopped on PSP http://forum.xentax.com/viewtopic.php?t=13424 I'm pretty sure it is the same OP (toaofmirrors here, mirrorman there, those username are pretty close...) If this is what the OP did then he bruteforced his save file, 100% hacking. Also why shouldn't he be flagged? He hacked his save file in order to get trophies. It might have been not intentionally but that doesn't change what he has done. Just because he doesn't have a lot of trophies doesn't mean that he shouldn't get flagged. Where will you draw the line then... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYuriG Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) http://forum.xentax.com/viewtopic.php?t=13424 I'm pretty sure it is the same OP (toaofmirrors here, mirrorman there, those username are pretty close...) Oh... Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:47 pm before any of this happened, 10 days ago, but... 3. Use Bruteforce Save Data 4.7.4 to load your save and Decrypt PFD(All Files) [You will have to open your PARAM.SFO to get your UserID and ConsoleID] 4. (Optional) Edit the PARAM.SFO to match your new stats 5. (Optional) Use Kingdom Hearts BBS - Save Editor v0.4 to edit D-Links you couldn't normally obtain into your character This is clearly editing savefiles, no arguing on it. Thread can be closed if OP confirms being the same person on the other site, I guess (althought even the avatars match). Edited October 24, 2015 by TheYuriG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesk8vaincra Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Yes, then he did do save file editing, just like 95%+ of everyone being flagged as cheaters. Cheaters download a savegame from internet, that not the same thing :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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