SITE RULES FOR FLAGGING/BANNING

[ZioFragolino]

2 minutes ago, xD4rK_By_D3s1gNx said:

Sorry I don't understand what your trying to say here.

 

It's not right flagged one who used his save on psplus, with one used another save from internet or friends. this isn't the same for me because there is a different procedure behind.

[MMDE]

1 minute ago, ZioFragolino said:

 

It's not right flagged one who used his save on psplus, with one used another save from internet or friends. this isn't the same for me because there is a different procedure behind.

 

You can use your save from PS+ save cloud storage. There's no problem with this. Just make sure you've synched your initial/first earning of the trophies, you should synch on the other console before you start playing too, then you won't have any issues.

[xD4rK_By_D3s1gNx]

4 minutes ago, ZioFragolino said:

 

It's not right flagged one who used his save on psplus, with one used another save from internet or friends. this isn't the same for me because there is a different procedure behind.

Your right, someone who uses their own save is doing nothing wrong.

But the problem arises when a person has used their own save in a way that causes trophies to pop in an impossible way.

Doing that makes it completely indistinguishable from a person using a downloaded save so unfortunately they both have to be treated the same, as there is no way of knowing which is true.

Edited May 19, 2017 by xD4rK_By_D3s1gNx

[Se7en]

10 minutes ago, weavsxx said:

Unfair advantages

 

Advantages in what?

 

9 minutes ago, weavsxx said:

Obviously makes the leaderboard artificial

 

They already are in many ways. E.g., some people can play 8-10 hours daily while others have 1-2 hours on weekends. So by default all players are not “competing” (if you imply leaderboards as some sort of competition) in equal conditions. Then, there are thousands of hackers with CWF, smart enough to never be caught by wanna-be detectives, searching for incorrect time stamps. SharePlay trophies, indistinguishable from the regular ones. And so on.

 

12 minutes ago, weavsxx said:

it's common sense that 2 or more people can achieve more than one individual

 

It′s common sense, that one person is able to play in different games at least on 2 systems simultaneously.

[MMDE]

1 minute ago, Se7en said:

SharePlay trophies, indistinguishable from the regular ones.

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with shareplay trophies. Someone is actually accomplishing those each time. It's not one accomplishment (if that in case of editing a save) being used to pop more than one time's worth of trophies.

[ZioFragolino]

17 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

You can use your save from PS+ save cloud storage. There's no problem with this. Just make sure you've synched your initial/first earning of the trophies, you should synch on the other console before you start playing too, then you won't have any issues.

Yes u are right but if one person don't sync? he can't use his save file from plus? and if you got a YLOD after 6 hours of playing? i know a lot of people don't sync until online ended or for a bugged game or trophy (this people are completionist) 

17 minutes ago, xD4rK_By_D3s1gNx said:

Your right, someone who uses their own save is doing nothing wrong.

But the problem arises when a person has used their own save in a way that causes trophies to pop in an impossible way.

Doing that makes it completely indistinguishable from a person using a downloaded save so unfortunately they both have to be treated the same, as there is no way of knowing which is true.

you say it's right treated the same for me no because need a concrete prove to flagged for these reason.

Edited May 19, 2017 by ZioFragolino

[Se7en]

3 minutes ago, MMDE said:

Absolutely nothing wrong with shareplay trophies. Someone is actually accomplishing those each time. It's not one accomplishment (if that in case of editing a save) being used to pop more than one time's worth of trophies.

 

You can find earlier in this thread opinion those trophies aren’t legitimate enough for leaderboards, though.

[MMDE]

2 minutes ago, ZioFragolino said:

Yes u are right but if one person don't sync? he can't use his save file from plus? and if you got a YLOD after 6 hours of playing? i know a lot of people don't sync until online ended or for a bugged game or trophy (this people are completionist) 

 

If your console really does die, and you haven't synched your trophies and you have a backup of the save file you used, then you could try to go offline on your new console, and see if you can earn the trophies in order and not too fast etc. People who go entire game without synching risks this.

[xD4rK_By_D3s1gNx]

1 minute ago, ZioFragolino said:

you say it's right treated the same for me no because need a concrete prove to flagged for these reason.

 

The basis of 99% of initial flags is the fact that the trophy list is in a seemingly impossible order.

The Illegitimate looking list is the starting "proof" provided to warrant the flag.

The person that received the flag then needs to be able to explain/prove why their trophy list looks the way it does, and that it falls within the sites rules.

 

5 minutes ago, ZioFragolino said:

Yes u are right but if one person don't sync? he can't use his save file from plus? and if you got a YLOD after 6 hours of playing? i know a lot of people don't sync until online ended or for a bugged game or trophy (this people are completionist)

If you get a YLOD or similar after 6 hours of playing without syncing trophies then wouldn't your save up to that point typically be lost too?

[MMDE]

2 minutes ago, Se7en said:

 

You can find earlier in this thread opinion those trophies aren’t legitimate enough for leaderboards, though.

 

There's probably people who do consider them cheating, but I don't consider it cheating that someone else play the game for you either. Someone actually earns the trophies, and it's not just you copying the progress of someone else etc.

[Xionx]

3 minutes ago, ZioFragolino said:

Yes u are right but if one person don't sync? he can't use his save file from plus? and if you got a YLOD after 6 hours of playing? i know a lot of people don't sync until online ended or for a bugged game of trophy (this people are completionist) 

you say it's right treated the same for me no because need a concrete prove to flagged for these reason.

 

If you get YLOD after 6 hours playing , not only the trophies are lost , the savefile aswell. How do you upload your file? I mean i dont know when ps+ is uploading with the auto upload , because i manually upload .

[xD4rK_By_D3s1gNx]

4 minutes ago, Se7en said:

 

You can find earlier in this thread opinion those trophies aren’t legitimate enough for leaderboards, though.

I would agree with this if Sony themselves didn't allow trophies to be unlocked via shareplay.

But they do so you know....

[MMDE]

2 minutes ago, xD4rK_By_D3s1gNx said:

I would agree with this if Sony themselves didn't allow trophies to be unlocked via shareplay.

But they do so you know....

 

And I love them for it, but I think the game devs can disable it (I don't just think so, pretty damn sure they can, it's just to make everything not recordable). Imagine if you couldn't earn local co-op trophies with share play...  

Edited May 19, 2017 by MMDE

[xD4rK_By_D3s1gNx]

1 minute ago, MMDE said:

 

And I love them for it, but I think the game devs can disable it. Imagine if you couldn't earn local co-op trophies with share play...  

That'd be interesting.

I've never come across that issue, in the very few games I've played that have local co-op I usually just get the missus to jump in.

[KRATOS_31090]

34 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

A glitched trophy can happen, but that is usually just that one trophy that should have popped didn't pop. I usually ignore this. Getting a trophy too early is a totally different case IMO, especially if you're the only one or other people who do it shows other signs of cheating, or it's something likely to be cheated because what it shows is that the user has got something very beneficial in the game. Maybe you can find a save that can explains it etc.

 

Play normal and synch the trophies when you earn them. Do this and you won't have any trouble. Again, of course don't synch hacked trophies.

 

I think this one was pretty awesome:

 

 

But here the person gave away the entire thing, and made me super suspicious because they fucked up.

 

He told us about the issues with his list before anyone even thought about it. He knew it looked super strange that he had played multiple games at the same time for months, but his excuse made no sense. Had his kids been playing games around the clock every day for months?  And he was mad that people had flagged him for what he thought was a legit time, because someone else had done it legit. This was because he took his old games and completed the rest of the trophies with the same offsets as someone else, giving him legit looking trophy lists. Also, he didn't share the completion time or date with someone else, because he only used the offsets, the dates he had earned trophies at himself and not the dates. I wouldn't have looked hadn't it been for that he completed one game every day, and one of those days the year was exactly one year off. 

 

But now I know to look for that too!

 

And this is not the only problem. Every time I look at a game, I find a ton of profiles with trophies earned in random order, often sharing time stamps with someone else. Sometimes these users are like PSN level 100 and stuff, but often they are like level 5 or 20 or whatever. I asked Sly to gather the accounts who shared the exact same trophy lists as the higher leveled users and perhaps look to ban them all, because every single PS3 trophy list they had 100% was out of order. I would often find clusters of like 20+ accounts.  I can't be bothered doing the gathering of this shit manually, so I might try to do it in another way. I doubt anyone wants these fake accounts on the leaderboards. I'm pretty sure they are made to be sold to people.

Yeah sites like Nextgenupdate sell PSN Level 100 accounts which is such a waste. Shocked people actually pay for it especially since the timestamps aren't legit.

[StackshotBilly45]

We need a Judge Judy. Someone respected enough by everybody to make judgements on a case by case basis.Someone who has the gift of common sense. Someone who can strike down the guilty with sheer wit for the entertainment of the rest of us.

[ZioFragolino]

28 minutes ago, xD4rK_By_D3s1gNx said:

 

The basis of 99% of initial flags is the fact that the trophy list is in a seemingly impossible order.

The Illegitimate looking list is the starting "proof" provided to warrant the flag.

The person that received the flag then needs to be able to explain/prove why their trophy list looks the way it does, and that it falls within the sites rules.

 

If you get a YLOD or similar after 6 hours of playing without syncing trophies then wouldn't your save up to that point typically be lost too?

I've seen many people disputed for this and the answer never changed: Stay flagged. What do you want to discuss about an old game? what evidence can you try after 4/5 years? even if you tell the truth explaining that you use your own save you get banned... this isn't correct. And for me like many others one hidden game is a cheater for the other eyes and this is indisputable.

27 minutes ago, Xionx said:

 

If you get YLOD after 6 hours playing , not only the trophies are lost , the savefile aswell. How do you upload your file? I mean i dont know when ps+ is uploading with the auto upload , because i manually upload .

you can do an offline game, quitting, go online without sync and upload the save on plus.

 

For @MMDE;: In the past not everyone was sync right away, i sync. once in a while because we don't care about this, and for me isn't right flagged for this especially if the game is old.

Edited May 19, 2017 by ZioFragolino

[yellowwindow7]

if boosting online trophies and backing up your save file to unlock one or two ending trophies in game in one sitting is considered a kind of hacking and violating the rule i'm pretty sure 95% of the community of PSNP will be flagged and banned lol!

 

someone did pointing on R&C nexus will get you flagged on a specific trophy that if it's unlocked before you beat the game you'll be screwed on PSNP? O_O;

 

wow! I wasn't aware of this.  I'm planning to get this game and play it so bad, since i'm a fan of this series but decided to get it on a good discount price in the future as I heard it's super short compared to the previous games.  thank you so much for the heads up.

[Xionx]

4 minutes ago, ZioFragolino said:

 

you can do an offline game, quitting, go online without sync and upload the save on plus.

 

That makes your YLOD argument unstable. At this point the person decides to upload save but not sync.  You talked about YLOD while playing for 6h .

Dont get me wrong , it can happen that someone is uploading save file and right befor syncing he gets YLOD .... but thats very very rare so you will not see this situation that frequently.

 

3 minutes ago, yellowwindow7 said:

 

someone did pointing on R&C nexus will get you flagged on a specific trophy that if it's unlocked before you beat the game you'll be screwed on PSNP? O_O;

 

he got flagged but flag was removed because it is absolutly doable. Getting flagged =/= staying flagged ... thats why dispute exist.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Xionx

[ZioFragolino]

3 minutes ago, Xionx said:

That makes your YLOD argument unstable. At this point the person decides to upload save but not sync.  You talked about YLOD while playing for 6h .

Dont get me wrong , it can happen that someone is uploading save file and right befor syncing he gets YLOD .... but thats very very rare so you will not see this situation that frequently.

Yes, decides to upload save but not sync. (unintentionally) and get YLOD later in a second time (4-5 days after while playing offline). after that he load his save from plus in another PS3 and unlock 3/4 trophies out of order, is correct to flag him? for me no.

[NathanielJohn]

1 hour ago, KRATOS_31090 said:

"Having someone play games and unlock trophies for you via SharePlay." How is that not flaggable?

 

I agree with you (in fact, there are 3 things on the list that I wrote that I don't personally like), but it's what the community has decided. There are at least two reasons for this: SharePlay is an officially-supported Sony feature (whereas using someone else's save file is not), and frankly it would be impossible to enforce even if we decided that it was flaggable. How would we ever detect that someone earned a trophy through SharePlay rather than by themselves? Right now the only tool we have to work with is timestamps, and those would look legit.

Edited May 19, 2017 by NathanielJohn

[weavsxx]

1 hour ago, Se7en said:

 

Advantages in what?

 

 

They already are in many ways. E.g., some people can play 8-10 hours daily while others have 1-2 hours on weekends. So by default all players are not “competing” (if you imply leaderboards as some sort of competition) in equal conditions. Then, there are thousands of hackers with CWF, smart enough to never be caught by wanna-be detectives, searching for incorrect time stamps. SharePlay trophies, indistinguishable from the regular ones. And so on.

 

 

It′s common sense, that one person is able to play in different games at least on 2 systems simultaneously.

I didn't ask you to agree with me

 

My opinion is that 2 or more people getting trophies on the same account simultaneously is unhealthy for the leaderboards

It's fair if someone is spending more time than the other, though with more people, cuts time gaining trophies in half, so it's basically cheating

It'd be easy to see if someone is doing it. If someone is playing 2 games at the same time or something, you'd be able to distinguish it pretty easily from when more than one person is playing games

I am sure many people see the leaderboards as some sort of competition, I didn't imply anything. I'm against UNFAIR advantages, maybe learn to read.

 

And indeed, that's common sense. Thanks for the statement.

 

EDIT: Think about this, 3 or 4 people are playing on one account. 'Well, that only amounts to 8 hours in comparison to the 2 hours one person would do"

You think that is fair? No.

Shareplaying might be stupid AF, but this is on another level entirely imo

Edited May 19, 2017 by weavsxx

[MMDE]

52 minutes ago, ZioFragolino said:

For @MMDE;: In the past not everyone was sync right away, i sync. once in a while because we don't care about this, and for me isn't right flagged for this especially if the game is old.

 

What does it matter if the game is old???  

 

Unless you do strange stuff like deleting accounts without synching trophies, then you probably don't have much to worry about.

[Se7en]

3 minutes ago, weavsxx said:

I didn't ask you to agree with me

 

And I did not. Just asked about reasons for what seemed to be poorly thought-out suggestion to make flagging system even more harsh.

 

11 minutes ago, weavsxx said:

I am sure many people see the leaderboards as some sort of competition, I didn't imply anything. I'm against UNFAIR advantages, mayb learn to read.

 

Maybe I will After you do me a favor and answer initial question: “UNFAIR advantages” in what exactly? If you’re not implying it is “competition”, than maybe learn to write it clearly.

[ProfBambam55]

I have some creative suggestions...take or leave them as you wish...

 

if the disputes are to remain public would it be possible to label members as "flag/dispute team" or something just so we know who can be taken seriously?...

 

also would anyone consider making them a private affair and the flag team creates threads like "does anyone know if unlocking these trophies like this is possible" threads to possibly reduce potential self-proclaimed mods from telling the person to hide their trophies or whatever before a dispute is settled...it could also take the pressure off of the flagged individuals feeling like they're being attacked, many of which are basically getting a forced first post in the forums...there's a saying (excuse the profanity this is how I first heard it; some flagged users responses have made me think of this) "a guy could save 1000 lives and then one day suck one d**k and from thereon always be known as a c**ksucker, not a lifesaver"...another possible advantage is that people who cheat would not be able to see where they might potentially mess up a list or order...

 

I have no opinion on the threads themselves here just trying to come up with some grey area solutions to try to contribute to the site...all I got...

Edited May 19, 2017 by ProfBambam55
Added possible advantage...