So I can't report a clearly cheater.

[aerosol_grey]

On 16/08/2018 at 3:08 PM, MMDE said:

 

There's definitely ways now. It's just back when the list I'm thinking about was popped, there was a glitch that would make it so your game on PS4 might pop some other game you had downloaded at the same time's trophies. In this case that was Sound Shapes popping Knack trophies. And it's well established that this was the case and that it happened back in 2014.

 

On 16/08/2018 at 3:08 PM, MMDE said:

 

And yeah, we don't flag glitches.

Over in the flagable offences foram sticky it says

Things that are flaggable:

• Joining hacked multiplayer lobbies that auto-unlock trophies -  Due to the impossibility of these times affecting specific game leaderboards, it's not fair to players who unlocked trophies under normal circumstances. Right now there isn't a 'white list' system for these kinds of games and a regular flag is made - you'll have to hide that game to get back on the leaderboards. If this happens to you, don't sync your trophies and go here to see how to reverse it.

It would appear that the arguement given here would also cover game trophies popped by the 2014 download glitch.  It is unfair to everybody who played the knack normally to allow these trophies to stand.  They are also not covered by the in-game glitch exemption as the glitch was not part of the game's software.  Just as with multiplayed hacked lobbies the player is not accuses of cheating but for fairness the game should be hidden.  If we want a consistent site the rules should be applied equally and fairly to all cases.

[MMDE]

9 minutes ago, aerosol_grey said:

 

Over in the flagable offences foram sticky it says

Things that are flaggable:

• Joining hacked multiplayer lobbies that auto-unlock trophies -  Due to the impossibility of these times affecting specific game leaderboards, it's not fair to players who unlocked trophies under normal circumstances. Right now there isn't a 'white list' system for these kinds of games and a regular flag is made - you'll have to hide that game to get back on the leaderboards. If this happens to you, don't sync your trophies and go here to see how to reverse it.

It would appear that the arguement given here would also cover game trophies popped by the 2014 download glitch.  It is unfair to everybody who played the knack normally to allow these trophies to stand.  They are also not covered by the in-game glitch exemption as the glitch was not part of the game's software.  Just as with multiplayed hacked lobbies the player is not accuses of cheating but for fairness the game should be hidden.  If we want a consistent site the rules should be applied equally and fairly to all cases.

 

Sorry, but no.

[NamoPh]

21 hours ago, aerosol_grey said:

 

Over in the flagable offences foram sticky it says

Things that are flaggable:

• Joining hacked multiplayer lobbies that auto-unlock trophies -  Due to the impossibility of these times affecting specific game leaderboards, it's not fair to players who unlocked trophies under normal circumstances. Right now there isn't a 'white list' system for these kinds of games and a regular flag is made - you'll have to hide that game to get back on the leaderboards. If this happens to you, don't sync your trophies and go here to see how to reverse it.

It would appear that the arguement given here would also cover game trophies popped by the 2014 download glitch.  It is unfair to everybody who played the knack normally to allow these trophies to stand.  They are also not covered by the in-game glitch exemption as the glitch was not part of the game's software.  Just as with multiplayed hacked lobbies the player is not accuses of cheating but for fairness the game should be hidden.  If we want a consistent site the rules should be applied equally and fairly to all cases.

 

Consistent reasoning would certainly dictate so, but apparently the mods have made up their minds on this one because it is a very specific case that would mar the account of someone very high up in the leaderboards, so nothing the rest of us can do about it. Yes, we understand that it was a known issue back then, but that did not prevent a ton of other people from getting flagged for the above reason. The main difference I see is that the player in question is considered a known factor who would more than likely not cheat, which... yeah, no way around it, the inconsistency here sticks out like a sore thumb.

[TOAST13TOA5T]

1 hour ago, NamoPh said:

 

Consistent reasoning would certainly dictate so, but apparently the mods have made up their minds on this one because it is a very specific case that would mar the account of someone very high up in the leaderboards, so nothing the rest of us can do about it. Yes, we understand that it was a known issue back then, but that did not prevent a ton of other people from getting flagged for the above reason. The main difference I see is that the player in question is considered a known factor who would more than likely not cheat, which... yeah, no way around it, the inconsistency here sticks out like a sore thumb.

The mods don't care how high you are on the leaderboard, they've stripped ranking from several types of people; high rankers, people who have contributed to guides and roadmaps, some more well known forum members. There's no favouritism getting shown here, just an odd situation which I'm sure if anyone here had been impacted by the same thing and been called out for it you would be rallying the other side of the argument. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by TOAST13TOA5T
Correcting mobile auto-correct nonsense words

[NamoPh]

6 hours ago, TOAST13TOA5T said:

I'm sure if anyone here had been impacted by the same thing and been called out for it you would be rallying the other side of the argument. 

 

Actually, no, I wouldn't. While seeing a 12 second completion on the leaderboard annoys me, my current position is already that it's more important to apply "innocent until proved guilty" more consistently across the board. People should not get flagged for circumstances that can be outside their control, period. But as is, the current rule displayed above is very clear: Intent and circumstances don't matter as long as the times in question are illegitimate. It doesn't really offer room for interpretation.

[B1rvine]

7 hours ago, NamoPh said:

the inconsistency here sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

The general rule is : any timestamps resulting based on Sony's code and/or game developers code, by normal play, is allowed.  As such, there's no inconsistency.  Intent and circumstances aren't a factor. What is a factor is one is a result of a temporary Sony software issue, the latter is the result of someone intentionally using CFW, which is against the rules.

 

There's not a single case here where a real documented glitch has ever been flagged. Some people may claim "glitch" to try and get out of their flag, but those instances are assumed to be the person making an excuse. The other well documented Sony glitch is the leapyear bug, one which the PSN architecture caused hundreds of thousands of people to miss timestamps on a specific day, due to a calendar error. All of those aren't flaggable, even though it results in impossible timestamps.

 

 

 

Quote

Things that are not flaggable:

• In-game glitches/exploits 

 

Quote

 

Things that are flaggable:

• Joining hacked multiplayer lobbies that auto-unlock trophies

 

@BlindMango  The "In-game glitches/exploits" should probably updated to include PSN system issues, but worded very carefully as to prevent people trying to argue around word play, rather than the intended meaning, like @NamoPh is here. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by B1rvine

[dmland12]

Just now, NamoPh said:

 

Actually, no, I wouldn't. While seeing a 12 second completion on the leaderboard annoys me, my current position is already that it's more important to apply "innocent until proved guilty" more consistently across the board. People should not get flagged for circumstances that can be outside their control, period. But as is, the current rule displayed above is very clear: Intent and circumstances don't matter as long as the times in question are illegitimate. It doesn't really offer room for interpretation.

 

Glitches aren't flaggable.  It's in the rules and that case is a known glitch.

 

I support whitelisting for games with the multiplayer hacking issues, but it's not the same thing as this case.  I know this is the internet, so it's popular to conflate different things and argue about them as if they're the same thing, but just why do this?  Why not just argue in support for whitelisting if that's what you want?

[aerosol_grey]

15 hours ago, dmland12 said:

 

Glitches aren't flaggable.  It's in the rules and that case is a known glitch.

 

I support whitelisting for games with the multiplayer hacking issues, but it's not the same thing as this case.  I know this is the internet, so it's popular to conflate different things and argue about them as if they're the same thing, but just why do this?  Why not just argue in support for whitelisting if that's what you want?

 

There is no conflation of ideas here.

"Due to the impossibility of these times affecting specific game leaderboards, it's not fair to players who unlocked trophies under normal circumstances."

is pretty clear. It seems that if you are a friend of a certain mod different rules apply.

[B1rvine]

 

2 hours ago, aerosol_grey said:

It seems that if you are a friend of a certain mod different rules apply.

 

The general rule is : any timestamps resulting based on Sony's code and/or game developers code, by normal play, is allowed.  Please don't try to twist the intended message around, or incite a flame war because the wording doesn't cover absolutely every scenario, just because you don't agree with something. The timestamps in question aren't impossible because a glitch existed at one time, which falls under the accepted non-flaggable rules.

[MAUSZX]

About the multiplayer hacking compared to this glitch. Is not the same. You cannot know for sure that you weren't actively looking for that hacker group or multiplayer server,  or even been part of the hacker group or however it works.

This is a glitch, it happens to you without even trying.

 

This are not the same guys. Also most of the time that those guys were into a hacked multiplayer thing, usually have more than one game with that same incident.

 

A cheater never cheats only once.

Once you open the cheat door is hard to keep it close. We all have been tempted, but not everyones acts on them.

[MMDE]

On 8/21/2018 at 11:22 AM, aerosol_grey said:

 

There is no conflation of ideas here.

"Due to the impossibility of these times affecting specific game leaderboards, it's not fair to players who unlocked trophies under normal circumstances."

is pretty clear. It seems that if you are a friend of a certain mod different rules apply.

 

It's true I know the person in question and has talked with him a bit. So?

 

I've even contacted him about it twice.

 

 

 

Translation:

 

10th December 2017

 

me:

As you probably know, for the most part I'm the one who approve reports etc on PSNP. Someone reported you for Knack, and to me it looks pretty strange that you 100% the game in 12 seconds...

 

ion:

It just happened when I cloud synced trophies with sound shapes, all the trophies just popped for knack one after the other. Talk to Sly, he has heard the entire story before, and he unblocked me.

 

me:

Hmm, okay, it's at least matching the time. In 2014 you could only use your own save, so it wouldn't have been such a big problem anyway.  But I set it to "legit", so nobody can report you for it again!  

 

13th February 2018

 

me:

What's up with your knack trophy list?

 

me:

Sorry, I don't know why I spoke English to you

 

me:

And sorry if I've asked you about this before.

 

me:

Almost gotta approve it if you don't reply :\

 

me:

Nvm, I know what it was now. lulz

 

ion:

Are you going demented already, *****?

 

me:

***** *

 

me:

 

me:

Nah, but someone reported you for it... again or something

 

me:

Now I know what it was. It was someone who PM'd me about it. haha

 

ion:

Aaah. Should be set to "legit" on PSNP as far as what you told me the last time.

 

me:

Yeah, it has been set to that

 

me:

But that's why people are PM-ing me about it

 

ion:

I understand 

 

 

So much for being friend with mods.

Edited August 24, 2018 by MMDE