Honour Mode is here!

[KuronishiUehara]

5 minutes ago, MiniMyoMan2001 said:

Did your party 100 wipe ( aTPK)? Meaning did all of your party die? Before you closed the game

Yeah once at ansur i guess that’s why such a shame lol

 

4 minutes ago, Theoretical_Moss said:

 

That's not something I can confirm as I didn't even think about quitting to mess with my saves in my honour mode playthrough. I can only confirm what I know about honour mode and make speculations from there. So, there is a chance that quitting the game before your last party member is killed won't void the trophy. But there also exists the chance that it could (I wouldn't know without testing or being able to look at the code). Even if closing the game doesn't void the trophy, though, I would recommend against doing so as it has the chance to corrupt your save.

 

Basically, if you want to play honour mode, just play by its rules to have the proper experience. There's a good chance the devs considered trophy hunters and put systems in place to prevent people from trying to circumvent the proper way to play the difficulty for a trophy (speaking as someone who's been in game dev, this is pretty likely). Trying to circumvent the intended experience for the trophy will only lead to frustration, whether it's the save voiding your chances or losing it to corruption.

So no close game , no wipe if in danger just run away to be safe ?

Edited December 16, 2023 by KuronishiUehara

[MiniMyoMan2001]

3 minutes ago, KuronishiUehara said:

Yeah once at ansur i guess that’s why such a shame lol

 

So no close game , no wipe if in danger just run away to be safe ?

If you wipe AT ALL(TPK)!!! your Run is invalid no matter what.

3 minutes ago, MiniMyoMan2001 said:

If you wipe AT ALL(TPK)!!! your Run is invalid no matter what.

Side note : have no idea if force closing the game prevents you from getting the trophy. 

[Wicked--JD]

I am so fucking done with this game...

4th Honour Mode run, PS5 freezes whenever I try to load my save.

 

I'm done with it,

Just going to play it on PC where I can easily back up my saves and download mods that solve all stupid bugs and transfer my saves to PS5. 

[KuronishiUehara]

25 minutes ago, Justt--JD-- said:

I am so fucking done with this game...

4th Honour Mode run, PS5 freezes whenever I try to load my save.

 

I'm done with it,

Just going to play it on PC where I can easily back up my saves and download mods that solve all stupid bugs and transfer my saves to PS5. 

One thing can use 1 save on pc for many account ? Like connect larian to 2 psn 

[Wicked--JD]

Just now, KuronishiUehara said:

One thing can use 1 save on pc for many account ? Like connect larian to 2 psn 

You can transfer saves, yes.
And on PC it's so much easier to back up your saves and everything.

 

So, I'm just going to do that.

[KuronishiUehara]

1 hour ago, Justt--JD-- said:

You can transfer saves, yes.
And on PC it's so much easier to back up your saves and everything.

 

So, I'm just going to do that.

If so can you help me pop mine too? I’m too damn tired to run another honour through 😢

[sepheroithisgod]

18 hours ago, Theoretical_Moss said:

There don't seem to be any bugs with getting the honour mode trophy when done properly and following the rules of the difficulty. However, it makes sense that exiting out of the game on a wipe to keep your save will actually nullify your chance to get the trophy on said file. For those that are unaware: honour mode saves the game ALL THE TIME just like in Divinity Original Sin 2 in order to prevent people from cheesing this trophy. This includes on closing the game.

 

I can say that when playing my honour mode file on PC, the game saves your file whenever you close the game, basically auto-saving your progress at all times to prevent any sort of save scumming. It seems this applies to the PS5 version in a similar way. While closing the game with a shutdown command, it may SEEM like you're setting the clock back, but the game *will* save the knowledge of your party wipe in this short time or upon the party wipe happening (it is possible to program things to take actions on shutdown like this). Larian has essentially scripted the game to prevent people from getting the trophy without having the intended experience.

 

This doesn't mean they prevent you from using other means around the single save (cross platform saves or (if on PC) making backup saves). That being said, it still takes away from the intended experience of this difficulty and isn't recommended.

 

tl;dr: A total party wipe will 100% nullify your chances of getting this trophy on a save no matter what you do to try and rewind the clock.

I'm a bit confused by this. Is there a second file that this is saving to that we cannot see? Like game settings or something.

 

Let's say I don't like the way a fight is going and decide to close the game or my power goes out, since you can't save mid-combat when you load it back up it would just load to the last time a save was triggered, or manually done. If it was saving constantly, I would instead assume I would pick it right up where I left off mid-combat this isn't the case, so I'm still confused about how it tracks such data. 

 

Or like in the case of going through a Persuasion check. If you don't roll well, you could still close the game and just try again. If it was saving constantly, it would have already recognized that the check had failed.

[BusyFace13]

1 hour ago, sepheroithisgod said:

Let's say I don't like the way a fight is going and decide to close the game or my power goes out, since you can't save mid-combat when you load it back up it would just load to the last time a save was triggered, or manually done. If it was saving constantly, I would instead assume I would pick it right up where I left off mid-combat this isn't the case, so I'm still confused about how it tracks such data. 

This is exactly correct. The game isn't saving constantly like others have suggested. It usually saves before a signifcant encounter, but not mid-combat unless a party member is killed. Honestly, it's a fairly straightforward system that works exactly as expected.

 

You have a single save and a cloud backup. If a fight is going bad, close the app (don't exit to menu) and restart the game. If you're worried about a boss, backup your save to the cloud and you can download it if needed.

 

The only issue is if people get a party kill, and they close the game after their save has been overwritten as a failure, which happens instantly. I assume the game still shows Honour Mode next to the save because they backed out before technically selecting whether to continue on a lower difficulty, but the save file is nerfed the minute your party is killed and your save is overwritten. 

[Vern3r0z]

5 hours ago, KuronishiUehara said:

If so can you help me pop mine too? I’m too damn tired to run another honour through 😢

pretty sure this would get someone flagged?

[Theoretical_Moss]

2 hours ago, sepheroithisgod said:

I'm a bit confused by this. Is there a second file that this is saving to that we cannot see? Like game settings or something.

 

Let's say I don't like the way a fight is going and decide to close the game or my power goes out, since you can't save mid-combat when you load it back up it would just load to the last time a save was triggered, or manually done. If it was saving constantly, I would instead assume I would pick it right up where I left off mid-combat this isn't the case, so I'm still confused about how it tracks such data. 

 

Or like in the case of going through a Persuasion check. If you don't roll well, you could still close the game and just try again. If it was saving constantly, it would have already recognized that the check had failed.

 

On the PC version of the game, it saves when you close it (from the menu), during autosaves, and during manual saves. One of these autosave moments is whenever a party member dies. This means that when you have a party wipe, the whole game has been saved knowing that you've lost and thus failed the honour mode playthrough. These saves are made at these key moments. What I'm saying is what I theorize is happening based on what we know of how saves work plus my programming knowledge.

 

I have not messed with forcing the game closed while playing, so I don't claim to be super knowledgeable of what exactly is going on, but it DOES save whenever someone dies. I don't know what you all reload to when you have a full party wipe, but the game has most definitely saved this even if you don't realize it/aren't told. What I DO know is that it is possible to program something to play out code on a forced shutdown (i.e. using task manager to end task or ending a PS5 game from the PS5 menu). This means code can be written to work around shutting down the game, but this same code cannot be run for an unforseen shutdown (i.e. game crash or loss of power).

 

What is likely happening is that when you shut down the game on a party wipe, you get a PARTIAL save. When saves are made, they are processed in a paticular order. I have no doubt that the first thing to save is an honour mode fail flag. This is likely saved the exact moment you have a party wipe. This save data may not necessarily make a full save like changing the data to say you're on a different difficulty (as that requires player input) or putting in a new date/time for the save. Basically, it looks like you're fine, but the game has flagged your save as having failed the challenge.

 

Again, my words should be taken with a grain of salt, but this is my personal understanding of what's going on as a programmer,

[Griffon234]

Welp, that's tragic, the trophy bugged for me as well. Got to the end and never got TPKed, (I don't even know what the game over menu looks like in Honour Mode), and my difficulty screen even says "Honour Ruleset". 

 

Hopefully this gets fixed soon.

[Sk1pper_Oz]

2 hours ago, Griffon234 said:

Welp, that's tragic, the trophy bugged for me as well. Got to the end and never got TPKed, (I don't even know what the game over menu looks like in Honour Mode), and my difficulty screen even says "Honour Ruleset". 

 

Hopefully this gets fixed soon.

 

I Believe on difficulty it shouldn't say Honour Ruleset but you should see the Honour difficulty "logo" (the one with the Beholder purplish colour and some imps) with the only option to have a detailed overview if you press triangle. If you see something different it means you have seen the party wiped once and you haven't reloaded from the cloud. I have unfortunately finished the game before figuring this out.... 🥲

 

Can anyone confirm me tho this; closing application mid fight and simply going back in doesn't invalidate the trophy. correct? I didn't see the party wipe message because I have closed far before that. therefor I should be fine. (??)

[Griffon234]

30 minutes ago, Sk1pper_Oz said:

 

I Believe on difficulty it shouldn't say Honour Ruleset but you should see the Honour difficulty "logo" (the one with the Beholder purplish colour and some imps) with the only option to have a detailed overview if you press triangle. If you see something different it means you have seen the party wiped once and you haven't reloaded from the cloud. I have unfortunately finished the game before figuring this out.... 🥲

 

Can anyone confirm me tho this; closing application mid fight and simply going back in doesn't invalidate the trophy. correct? I didn't see the party wipe message because I have closed far before that. therefor I should be fine. (??)

Huh - It seems you're right. I wonder where I wiped, because I never saw the game over screen... I've had characters die before, but no full party wipes. Hmm... well, that was a waste of 30ish hours 😕 

This might be an easy way to check for a lot of other people as well, if they have indeed a bugged file, or if it has disqualified them from Honour Mode legitimately. Damn, I wish I knew this earlier, I would've vigilantly checked the whole time.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Griffon234

[ByteTyson]

Does reloading from the Cloud invalidate this trophy, even if you have NOT had a total party wipe?  The language used above implies that any Cloud save recovery might invalidate it.  It is imperative folks upload their save to the cloud as my local save got corrupted and the game crashed every time I reloaded in Act 3 in the Hag / Save Varna quest.   I had to download from the Cloud and lost like 3 days of progress.   Was annoying as hell to have a local Honor Save that crashed the game upon launch every time.

[sepheroithisgod]

10 minutes ago, ByteTyson said:

Does reloading from the Cloud invalidate this trophy, even if you have NOT had a total party wipe?  The language used above implies that any Cloud save recovery might invalidate it.  It is imperative folks upload their save to the cloud as my local save got corrupted and the game crashed every time I reloaded in Act 3 in the Hag / Save Varna quest.   I had to download from the Cloud and lost like 3 days of progress.   Was annoying as hell to have a local Honor Save that crashed the game upon launch every time.

This happened to me right before the final fight. I had to use a cloud save to restore it. No trophy, but was probably from seeing the party wipe screen. I did read the most recent patch notes said they fixed an issue where a save file would fail to load in Honor mode. So I'm hoping this corrects it.

 

Someone mentioned there should be an honor mode logo on your save file, that might be a good indicator to look for.

[BusyFace13]

1 hour ago, ByteTyson said:

Does reloading from the Cloud invalidate this trophy, even if you have NOT had a total party wipe? 

It doesn't. I reloaded from the cloud a few times and had no issue earning the trophy.

 

5 hours ago, Sk1pper_Oz said:

Can anyone confirm me tho this; closing application mid fight and simply going back in doesn't invalidate the trophy. correct?

It doesn't. I closed the app mid fight A LOT and had no issue earning the trophy.

 

1 hour ago, sepheroithisgod said:

Someone mentioned there should be an honor mode logo on your save file, that might be a good indicator to look for.

I just checked my Honour Mode save at the Reunion Camp and I honestly cannot find any kind of logo, but maybe I'm blind. The difficulty for my save is 'Honour Mode', and not 'Honour Ruleset' as somebody else had, so maybe that is a subtle indicator.

 

However, I'm pretty sure that when I did the playthrough earlier this month it said Tactician as the difficulty, so the recent patch has clearly messed with something related to tracking the difficulty.

Edited December 19, 2023 by BusyFace13

[ByteTyson]

Thanks for the concrete testimony BusyFace13 and helping cobble together some facts on this with your experience.   I will definitely need to do Honor again on my dark urge run.

[sepheroithisgod]

8 minutes ago, BusyFace13 said:

I just checked my Honour Mode save at the Reunion Camp and I honestly cannot find any kind of logo, but maybe I'm blind. The difficulty for my save is 'Honour Mode', and not 'Honour Ruleset' as somebody else had, so maybe that is a subtle indicator.

I see what they are talking about. If you load that save, and from the menu select the difficulty option, if the trophy is invalid, it will go to the custom settings option. If the run is still considered valid, you won't have any options, instead, you will just see the Honor mode tile as you're not supposed to be able to customize options in Honor mode.

 

I did a simple test on a new file. I checked the difficulty and saw the Honor mode tile. I then walked into the fire, died, saw the wipe screen, and closed the game. When I loaded that file, checked diffculty, I was in the custom settings that should be disabled. Thus, you can tell the trophy is invalid if you see these options.

 

Someone could probably test the cloud saves and see if seeing the screen and then loading a cloud save salvages the run.

[BusyFace13]

26 minutes ago, sepheroithisgod said:

I see what they are talking about. If you load that save, and from the menu select the difficulty option, if the trophy is invalid, it will go to the custom settings option. If the run is still considered valid, you won't have any options, instead, you will just see the Honor mode tile as you're not supposed to be able to customize options in Honor mode.

Ah I understand now. I was looking for a symbol attached to the save when trying to load it. This makes sense.

[AshenCanary]

@Justt--JD--, @ByteTyson, @KuronishiUehara & @Griffon234 - FYI - I've discovered the root cause and posted the resolution steps in a separate thread:
 

Thanks to @sepheroithisgod for trying out the steps and confirming they work. 

@Theoretical_Moss you were pretty spot on with your thoughts about what was going on. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by AshenCanary

[Griffon234]

2 hours ago, AshenCanary said:

@Justt--JD--, @ByteTyson, @KuronishiUehara & @Griffon234 - FYI - I've discovered the root cause and posted the resolution steps in a separate thread:
 

Thanks to @sepheroithisgod for trying out the steps and confirming they work. 

@Theoretical_Moss you were pretty spot on with your thoughts about what was going on. 

Thanks a lot, I will try this when I get home 

[bikeman223]

On 11/21/2023 at 9:14 AM, Aeternull said:

Would this count as completing the game? SPOILER ALERT

  Hide contents

Using Gale's ORB to blow up the brain at the end of Act 2

Although now I'm wondering if this works in Act 3, allowing you to bypass the final boss. I don't know if this would trigger the correct ending flag for Honor mode or not since the rest of the party survives. 

Edited March 4 by bikeman223