It's just me or some Hard mode sections was Utter Bullshit? [Spoilers]

[Nick240894]

On 3/23/2024 at 1:45 AM, Buff_Cupcake said:

Comparing it to P5 and Elden Ring in terms of scale doesn't really apply. Both of those games were huge but didn't contain the egregious amount of bloat that Rebirth has from a content perspective.

 

I don't understand why people get their viewpoints so muddled around the content topic with this game. It's enjoyable but it's objectively overloaded to the point where it is creating a negative impact for some folks and that's totally fine. Regardless of whether someone is enjoying the actual content, it's still overly heavy from a quantity point of view.

This argument doesn't make much sense to me. Rebirth really doesn't have that much open world content, and I'm surprised you think it's more bloated than Elden Ring. Personally I wouldn't describe either game as bloated, but if you do all the open world content, Elden Ring has way more of it than Rebirth, with dozens and dozens of dungeons, caves, catacombs, forts, etc...

 

Rebirth only has like 20 to 30 objectives per region, and many of them are extremely quick and easy to knock out. Stuff like scanning crystals literally takes like 5 to 10 seconds. The beefy open world stuff is basically just the combat assignments and the proto-relic quest line. That's it, all the other stuff is very quick and easy.

 

Like I 100% completed the Nibelheim region in 90 minutes. I wouldn't call that "bloated". Even the longest regions, which for me were the Grasslands and Corel, still only took like 5 hours or so each.

 

Now let's look at side quests. Rebirth has 36 side quests. That's nothing. For a big AAA open world RPG, it is a very small amount. Even FF16 had 80 side quests. Ghost of Tsushima had over 60. The Witcher 3 had 350+ side quests. Breath of the Wild had over 70.

Rebirth has 36. I would say it is pretty damn lean on that front, it's basically roughly 1 quest per party member per region (and Cait Sith doesn't even have any side quests).

 

So that leaves minigames. And sure, there's a lot of them. At the same time though, the vast majority are optional. So just don't do them. And that applies to everything else as well. Side quests, open world, whatever, don't do it if you don't enjoy it. Why do people force themselves to complete optional content they don't enjoy and then complain about that content's existence?

 

Contrary to what you're suggesting, the fact that there is a lot of optional content does not actually hurt the game's quality. Because you can easily just ignore it.

 

Complaining about bloat makes much more sense when talking about main story bloat. Stuff like Temple of the Ancients being like a 4 to 5 hour slog. Or the absurdly long Cait Sith section in Chapter 11. Now that is bloat. Which was the main issue for Remake as well. Bloated and padded main story sections, like 2 very long trips to the Sewers, the unnecessarily protracted Train Graveyard, or the whole "switching the lights" section before the Sector 5 reactor mission.

 

Those sections are mandatory, and excessively long, which is what I would consider bloat.

 

But optional content is just there if you want it, it does not actually negatively impact the game. Removing it would not make the game better. People who don't like the side stuff should skip it and focus on what they do enjoy. That's the point of games, to have fun, not to 100% complete something just for the sake of 100% completing it.

 

You should only 100% stuff if you enjoy it imo.

[Buff_Cupcake]

3 hours ago, Nick240894 said:

This argument doesn't make much sense to me. Rebirth really doesn't have that much open world content, and I'm surprised you think it's more bloated than Elden Ring. Personally I wouldn't describe either game as bloated, but if you do all the open world content, Elden Ring has way more of it than Rebirth, with dozens and dozens of dungeons, caves, catacombs, forts, etc...

 

Rebirth only has like 20 to 30 objectives per region, and many of them are extremely quick and easy to knock out. Stuff like scanning crystals literally takes like 5 to 10 seconds. The beefy open world stuff is basically just the combat assignments and the proto-relic quest line. That's it, all the other stuff is very quick and easy.

 

Like I 100% completed the Nibelheim region in 90 minutes. I wouldn't call that "bloated". Even the longest regions, which for me were the Grasslands and Corel, still only took like 5 hours or so each.

 

Now let's look at side quests. Rebirth has 36 side quests. That's nothing. For a big AAA open world RPG, it is a very small amount. Even FF16 had 80 side quests. Ghost of Tsushima had over 60. The Witcher 3 had 350+ side quests. Breath of the Wild had over 70.

Rebirth has 36. I would say it is pretty damn lean on that front, it's basically roughly 1 quest per party member per region (and Cait Sith doesn't even have any side quests).

 

So that leaves minigames. And sure, there's a lot of them. At the same time though, the vast majority are optional. So just don't do them. And that applies to everything else as well. Side quests, open world, whatever, don't do it if you don't enjoy it. Why do people force themselves to complete optional content they don't enjoy and then complain about that content's existence?

 

Contrary to what you're suggesting, the fact that there is a lot of optional content does not actually hurt the game's quality. Because you can easily just ignore it.

 

Complaining about bloat makes much more sense when talking about main story bloat. Stuff like Temple of the Ancients being like a 4 to 5 hour slog. Or the absurdly long Cait Sith section in Chapter 11. Now that is bloat. Which was the main issue for Remake as well. Bloated and padded main story sections, like 2 very long trips to the Sewers, the unnecessarily protracted Train Graveyard, or the whole "switching the lights" section before the Sector 5 reactor mission.

 

Those sections are mandatory, and excessively long, which is what I would consider bloat.

 

But optional content is just there if you want it, it does not actually negatively impact the game. Removing it would not make the game better. People who don't like the side stuff should skip it and focus on what they do enjoy. That's the point of games, to have fun, not to 100% complete something just for the sake of 100% completing it.

 

You should only 100% stuff if you enjoy it imo.

 

I didn't say I wasn't enjoying myself 😄i think I actually said I was enjoying myself in what you quoted.

 

You seem to have incorrectly inferred that I was forcing myself to play specific content despite not enjoying it. I actually said the opposite to that. 

 

Just to reiterate - I am enjoying the content, but it is still overloaded in both story and side diversions. It's a fun game, it's still bloated in a few places.

 

To address the skippable nature of the side content and your 'if you don't like it, don't play it' rationale. I completely agree with you on this and it would be completely applicable to me if, a) I wasn't enjoying the game content and b) if the side content was disposable enough to skip.

 

And on the latter point there - I would argue that you actually do need to engage in the optional content you referred to, considering how it's reward system works and how that connects with wider team and character progression. It's utterly not as optional as you mention. If you want to reinforce your main story experience as you go and to some extent your ability to fully embrace the end game content, you have to engage with virtually all of the 'optional' side content. 

 

I'm not here to 100% games at all costs. Just the ones I enjoy.

 

And to be honest, even if I was, I can't really see how this would have affected my experience with this particular game. My points would still be the same, and the game would still be bloated.

Edited March 24 by Buff_Cupcake

[andrehunter]

Bring Magnify and Barrier for the Bahamut Arisen in the final fight, i was lucky i had reraise on Cat Sith so i was able to push trough. He release Gigaflare in 20 seconds while doing 3/4 attacks in a row, it's absolutely crazy.

[poisonblood]

Hey guys, 

Just finished up all the brutal and legendary bouts. Onto Hard mode for the platinum. 

Any advice on builds? I know the Aerith + Yuffie build is the way to go once she hits the party
But any tips outside of this? Like pre-Yuffie ect

Any help is appreciated

[Thedah]

2 hours ago, poisonblood said:

Hey guys, 

Just finished up all the brutal and legendary bouts. Onto Hard mode for the platinum. 

Any advice on builds? I know the Aerith + Yuffie build is the way to go once she hits the party
But any tips outside of this? Like pre-Yuffie ect

Any help is appreciated

I've been using the Aeroga Cloud build that's used for the Bonds of Friendship legendary bout and have breezed through the first 10 chapters. Just change the magic materia around for different weaknesses and transfer the materia around from character to character in sections where you can't play as Cloud. 

 

Build here in the comments:

https://youtu.be/jvNzI4VEkAI

Edited March 26 by Thedah

[poisonblood]

8 minutes ago, Thedah said:

I've been using the Aeroga Cloud build that's used for the Bonds of Friendship legendary bout and have breezed through the first 10 chapters. Just change the magic materia around for different weaknesses and transfer the materia around from character to character in sections where you can't play as Cloud. 

 

Build here in the comments:

https://youtu.be/jvNzI4VEkAI

Yeah awesome! That was the build I used as well for the bout. I was wondering how well it would go in regular story battles. Glad to hear it is still viable!

How long do you reckon it took you to get to chapter 10?

Edited March 26 by poisonblood

[Thedah]

5 minutes ago, poisonblood said:

Yeah awesome! That was the build I used as well for the bout. I was wondering how well it would go in regular story battles. Glad to hear it is still viable!

How long do you reckon it took you to get to chapter 10?

Around 6-7 hours. Game goes by really quick when you skip all cutscenes and side content. 

[Tothoro]

I've been using Limit Siphon Cloud to nuke everything. Give him Enhanced Expeditionary Medal, First Strike materia, and the Limit Siphon materia, give another party member Gotterdammerung. Open by Siphoning and you can start every encounter with a Level 3 Limit Break (or save it for the first stagger). Slipstream Saber is also a godsend, it allows you to be pretty reckless with your casting since it can restore MP with Trade-Off.

 

Relegate the rest of your party (I prefer Tifa/Aerith pre-Yuffie) to healing/support, shift around Elemental materias as needed for bosses, and you should be golden. Throw in Empowerment/Magnify-Time if you want to go full aggro or Magnify-Barrier/Prayer if you want to play safer. After completing all of the trials nothing has really given me trouble, but I'm not looking forward to the Cait solo section or the final boss gauntlet.

[diogoarez]

Whoever designed the Dragon Boss on Hard was on drugs, Crimson Breath III ruins the entire fight for me tbh 

[ExpectedMore402]

1 hour ago, diogoarez said:

Whoever designed the Dragon Boss on Hard was on drugs, Crimson Breath III ruins the entire fight for me tbh 

I agree that it was poorly designed on Hard. Breaking the chest should have nerfed the attack.

 

That being said, I got this one on my third try using Cloud, Yuffie, and Barret using only 21 MP on Barret throughout the whole fight. 
 

Yuffie and Barret both have Pray. Yuffie has Götterdämmerung, Cloud has the Enhanced Expeditionary Medal for L3 limit break and Limit Siphon. Barret has Barrier with magnify and limit support.

 

Use Cloud’s L3 limit as much as possible. Pound away on him with Yuffie and Barret from a distance and Pray constantly. When he goes phase 2 and does Crimson Breath III, cast magnified Manawall with Barret. Everyone should survive assuming their health is relatively high. It takes a few tries if he uses Crimson Breath when Barret doesn’t have ATB, you’re toast. To avoid that, try and use Pray more with Yuffie than Barret.

 

Just some tips for anyone who is struggling with this.

[poisonblood]

Alrighty! I made it up to chapter 9 yesterday in about 5 hours. 

I feel like the Cait Sith solo section and Red XII with Barret against Gi Nattak are gonna be stressful
Does anyone have any good builds for these 3? I feel like maybe the Powerpyx builds I used for their legendary bouts could work okay?

Edited March 26 by poisonblood

[PostGameBlues]

Chapter 13 mp conservation is pretty much non-existent if you just slot magnify + petrify, mp absorp + petrify, magic focus + poison and petrify, magic up. Swap these materias around to whichever character needs to regain mp. I won't be surprised if they nerf petrify/Quaga in Part 3. It's too good because of its wide range, which results in a magnified quaga instantly staggering (or close to) enemies. Combine that with Stagger Recovery weapon skill and it's GG. I've been doing this my entire Hard playthrough and it's been a breeze, just need Chapter 14 now.

Edited March 27 by PostGameBlues

[Clocker045]

In Ch 4 Hard at the moment. So making progress. Been going for the folios and will probably check that Cloud Aero build if it can make a majority of the challenges easy.

[poisonblood]

Nabbed the platinum at 4:30am lmao. Running on 2 hours sleep for work today but it's all thanks to this forum I was able to do it!

 

Good luck to everyone going for it

[Incandenza1]

What build did you guys use for the final fights? I'm currently knocking my head against the Life Clinger fight on hard. Especially in the final phase when she becomes immune to physical damage while pressured and just keeps spamming the most obnoxious attacks possible with no breathing room -- it's horrible. Is there any solution other than just solidly dodging for several minutes? I don't want to waste too much MP when I'm having to heal constantly due to the AI on my allies being atrocious.

Edited April 1 by Incandenza1
typo

[Nitemares-----]

On 3/27/2024 at 2:56 PM, poisonblood said:

Nabbed the platinum at 4:30am lmao. Running on 2 hours sleep for work today but it's all thanks to this forum I was able to do it!

 

Good luck to everyone going for it

What's a good build for Rufus in Chapter 12 Hard Mode, I'm currently stuck on him, it's annoying that if you die, change your equipment, and die again, your equipment resets back to from the Rude and Elena fight. I need a good build that will carry over, so I don't spend time changing out Materia in case I die and get right back in the fight.

Edited April 1 by Nitemares-----

[cometowner]

In my humble opinion, its you alone.

 

This game is hard and intended to be. 

 

So unless you master and sharpen your skills, you will always fall short. 

 

 

[lies_of_t]

I came into hard mode with a lot of worries about it being a lot harder than Remake, which to be fair it is a fair step up in challenge but also Rebirth provides the tools to match that increase in power level (Magic and Genji Gloves for example). I didn't struggle on any boss and I wasn't using specific strats for almost any boss. You just need to exploit their elemental weakness and use Swiftcast/MP Absorb/HP Absorb/Magic Focus/Magic Up and it will be cake.

 

Also doing the Legendary / Brutal bouts before doing hard mode will be a huge boost to your "skill" as those are probably the hardest pieces of content in the game.

 

On an unrelated note, even with the nerfs to MP UP and HP Up I still never struggled with resources. I ended most chapters with full MP... (MP Absorb is really really overpowered tbh). If they want the no MP restore to be an actual challenge in the 3rd part they need to either remove MP Absorb or make it even worse.

[Demortuus]

I never even optimized my materia until hard mode chapter 14. I still kept leveling up all kinds of materia, often times slotting two blue ones into neighbouring slots.

 

In chapter 14 I just gave everyone a max or near max level materia of Steadfast Block, Pray, Heal, HP Up, MP Up. Then I divvied up three max level Precision Defense, Magnify to Heal and gave each character some other max or near max level materia like Speed, Vitality, Spirit, Magic, Strength, ATB Boost, Chakra etc. Barret got the level 3 Limit accessory and Limit Siphon. Cait got this purple Limit Dispenser materia, Cloud Genji Gloves and the rest (Enhanced) Karmic Cowls. I never even used a drop of MP until the Aerith & Cloud fight because of Pray on the fast characters and Chakra on the slow characters.

 

Hard Mode was a cakewalk until chapter 14. I kinda struggled with the Aerith & Cloud fight, but only because Aerith would just stand in the Beam, Whirlwind, Floor blobs and wouldn't move....... But that was no problem with Limit level 3 on both with max gauge when Sephiroth goes into the last Phase. Cloud Limit 3 -> Aerith Limit 3 -> Cloud Limit 3

 

But I'm kinda getting tired of this game... Only thing left is the last Brutal fight and the Legendary fights.