Souls fans, you really should check this out

[StrickenBiged]

Hey there Souls fans.

 

So, I managed to get in an hour of playing this after the midnight launch last night. I've managed to defeat the boss of the first (area after about 6 attempts), so these are all just first impressions but so far, it's pretty souls-ey.

 

After about an hour of play, I can tell I'm going to enjoy this game. If you're a Souls fan in need of a little aperitif before Dark Souls 3 comes out, I recommend you check this out. I'll give a quick rundown of the various systems here, for comparison. This isn't a review, just a random dump of how the early game works for your perusal. 

 

You play a sailor washed up on the shore of a mysterious island. The princess you were sailing with is missing, and you set off to take her back. 

 

There are the usual "souls" classes - I recall you could be a Knight, Paladin, Theif, Mage, Hunter, Cleric, Chef or Pauper off the top of my head - and they come with the weapons, stats and armour types you'd expect. Your stats are simplified compared to Souls games; there are only six to worry about here: Strength, Endurance, Dexterity, Willpower, Magic and Wisdom. 

 

Sanctuaries take the place of bonfires as your safe-haven against the ghouls and beasts that await you should you venture forth. During my play of the initial area, I found a number of idols which can be "offered" at the shrine of the sanctuary to summon an NPC of one kind or another. So far, I've found a shopkeep who sells general items, a blacksmith who can sell weapons and armours and upgrade the same, and a guy who can warp you between sanctuaries (although I haven't found any others yet). Presumably I will have to offer an idol to every sanctuary shrine in order to summon the NPCs to each, but I'm not sure yet. 

 

One difference is that there are two currency items in S&S; gold and salt. Gold is for buying general items, new weapons and the like. Salt is your progression currency which you use to buy level-ups and equipment upgrades (the latter also requires a "lock of hair" which I'm yet to find.

 

Once you level up, you receive a Black Pearl which can be spent on the vast skill tree (seriously, this thing is humongous). Black Pearls (at least around the start of the tree) can be exchanged for skills such as the ability to wield class 1 sword-type weapons, wear class 1 light armour, gain another Red Flask (i'll come back to these) or increase your stat points. So far, I think you need to find new magics in the world in order to wield and cast them, but it may be possible to unlock them in the skill tree, I'm not certain yet. 

 

You've got a health bar and a stamina bar. Health is replenished by consuming a Red Flask, which is replenished when you visit a sanctuary. The Knight starts with 3, and you can gain more by spending a Black Pearl on the relevant skill in the tree. It's basically your estus flask. Enemies sometimes drop Red Shards, which provide a smaller amount of health recovery, which takes longer to reach full effect. 

 

Stamina, so far, operates the same as in Dark Souls. Most actions use some stamina, and it recovers more slowly when your shield is raised. 

 

Combat is good fun so far, and very reminiscent of the Souls games. I've mostly been using my Knight's starting sword and a spear I bought. Each has its own move-set with heavy and light attacks mapped to the and buttons respectively and each plays very distinctly. You can block with your shield, and parry by pressing with your shield raised. Parrying an enemy leaves him open for a finishing attack, executed with . Again, all very Souls. 

 

In terms of online, while I did start the game as soon as it launched, I did start to notice messages being left around by other players after about half an hour or so, so that mechanic has also come across from the Souls games. I read online that Co-op is also an option, but haven't figured out how to do that yet. 

 

I can't really speak to atmosphere yet, as I'm only just finished with the boss of the first area. So far it seems a little lighter in tone than Dark Souls, despite it being bloodier (Ska Studios seems to like large gouts of the claret in its animations). This is partly down to the cartoony art style on the characters, and partly down to the first area being, well, actually lighter. The first area, consisting of a decrepit fortress has a washed-out quality, like it is taking place in a hazy, half forgotten memory. It's somewhat like how the Painted World in Dark Souls 1 would feel if the sun was out. 

 

One other difference to Dark Souls is that your salt isn't lost if you die multiple times. The only guy to kill me was the area's boss. Each time, I lost all the salt I had accumulated while fighting my way to him, but he consumed and retained it all. Once I killed him, I recovered all that I had lost. I'm not sure if this is still true if you die to a different enemy, or whether you will be able to recover from every enemy that has ever killed you. You do, however, permanently lose some gold upon death - the guy who drags you back to your last Sanctuary to revive you doesn't work for free, apparently. [EDIT: I was wrong here. If you die multiple times, you will lose your salt. With bosses, when you die to a boss he will have a marker on his health bar the next time you face him (assuming you don't die to another enemy on your way there. If you can get his health below that marker, you will recover your salt. If you die to him again, all your currently held salt will go back to him and the marker will appear again.)

 

So yeah, there are some initial thoughts on the game and its systems.

 

I'm having a lot of fun so far, and highly recommend Souls fans check it out. This looks like it could be a worthy addition to the Souls-like sub-genre of RPGs and, for the price, so far, I think Souls fans will enjoy this game. 

 

Hope this helps anyone interested in the game. 

 

Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention covenants. So the first NPC I met in the game asked me if I worshipped the new gods, I said yes, and then whether I believed in the Three, I said yes again. I was given a Candelabra by this guy, and the trophy for taking an oath to the Three popped. The candelabra is used in Sanctuaries to claim a shrine, in the same way you'd light a bonfire in Souls. I'm going to try it out later, but it's possible that, if I had answered differently, he might have given me a different oath and item with which to activate shrines. I don't know yet if your religion has any effect on the gameplay, or whether you can change it later. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by StrickenBiged

[slash]

thanks for the write up! i've had my eye on this one for a while and definitely want to try it out while waiting for Dark Souls 3. might not be able to answer this since you just started playing, but how is the level design so far? is it laid out in a more traditional platformer kind of way or can you see different levels end up weaving in between each other like in Dark Souls and Bloodborne? also, how does the game run? have you run into any technical issues at all? gaming nowadays always has me skeptical about performance....

[MMDE]

Saw someone play it earlier today (yes, this helps selling games). Looked fun enough, and likely something I'd be into. Now it just comes down to the price... lol (will check now)

 

EDIT:

Price wasn't too high, but I usually like to pay a little less for digital games. Luckily the game has a platinum. I couldn't actually buy it in the PSN store, but the price was there.

Edited March 15, 2016 by MMDE

[StrickenBiged]

thanks for the write up! i've had my eye on this one for a while and definitely want to try it out while waiting for Dark Souls 3. might not be able to answer this since you just started playing, but how is the level design so far? is it laid out in a more traditional platformer kind of way or can you see different levels end up weaving in between each other like in Dark Souls and Bloodborne? also, how does the game run? have you run into any technical issues at all? gaming nowadays always has me skeptical about performance....

 

So far, it's definitely the latter, sort of a Metroidvania type of level design (which Dark Souls took inspiration from and made 3D, if you think about it).

 

I've already passed a number of doors that are locked from the other side, items that I can't get to, that sort of thing. So I think there will be a bit of backtracking as you acquire new abilities and equipment or keys that allow you to access these areas. 

[DistantFox]

I've only played Bloodborne for a few hours and I got owned, but I preordered this on a whim. I can't wait to try it when I get home from school today.

[StrickenBiged]

If you do want a review, the only one I've seen is on Destructiod. It's not particularly good (as a review I mean - it's mostly a list of features, like I have given here - his opinion on the game is very positive). 

 

One important thing though - it sounds like the Co-op might be couch only, so if online co-op is important to you it might be a good idea to try and get more info before buying. 

[Dragon-Archon]

Interesting, I'll look into the game. Thnx for the detailed comparison Stricken. 

 

Do you know what happens if you run out of gold and die?

[StrickenBiged]

Interesting, I'll look into the game. Thnx for the detailed comparison Stricken. 

 

Do you know what happens if you run out of gold and die?

 

The reviver guy took a different amount of gold depending on how much I was carrying, so I think he takes a % of what you've got on you, like the gate-keeper in Rogue Legacy. Presumably, you'd lose no gold if you're not carrying any, but who knows. (It'd be interesting if he takes you to a debtors prison or something instead, like the prison twists in Bloodborne and Dark Souls 1...) 

 

Gold seems to be a common enough drop anyway, so far. I don't think the Knight starts with particularly good item discovery, but every other enemy seems to be dropping a pile of Gold when he dies.

[Happy]

The reviver guy took a different amount of gold depending on how much I was carrying, so I think he takes a % of what you've got on you, like the gate-keeper in Rogue Legacy. Presumably, you'd lose no gold if you're not carrying any, but who knows. (It'd be interesting if he takes you to a debtors prison or something instead, like the prison twists in Bloodborne and Dark Souls 1...) 

 

Gold seems to be a common enough drop anyway, so far. I don't think the Knight starts with particularly good item discovery, but every other enemy seems to be dropping a pile of Gold when he dies.

I'm fairly certain it's always 10% of the gold you're carrying, if you have no gold he won't take any of it. Might take an item instead though, not 100% sure.

I've gotten into the game a good bit and i can recommend it as well. I'd compare the gameplay to that of Rogue Legacy with a bigger emphasis on dodging and blocking. The design of the entire map is excellent so far, you get many more "oh shit place x links to place y" moments than i would have expected, though backtracking for trophies at the end of the game will still get extremely tedious unless they introduce a more efficient for of fast travel.

It does lack a little bit of polish though. The skilltree can be extremely overwhelming for people starting out and i can see many people poorly investing their level-up points before they know what they really want to do with their character. Also, during my up to that point favorite bossfight, the boss glitched out of the arena and fell off a cliff. And no, it didn't seem intentional like it did with Ceaseless Discharge. Then there's the immersion breaking walls of light a la "you can't go through here without a special item", which i'd hoped to see done in a way that isn't as intrusive. Then again Dark Souls did the same thing.

But so far, the pros absolutely outweigh the cons. This game gets the "this time i'll absolutely beat this boss" feeling that Souls games invoke in me perfectly right. It's not quite as hard or big as the Souls games, thus being better suited for 1-3 hour playing sessions.

[StrickenBiged]

I'm fairly certain it's always 10% of the gold you're carrying, if you have no gold he won't take any of it. Might take an item instead though, not 100% sure.

I've gotten into the game a good bit and i can recommend it as well. I'd compare the gameplay to that of Rogue Legacy with a bigger emphasis on dodging and blocking. The design of the entire map is excellent so far, you get many more "oh shit place x links to place y" moments than i would have expected, though backtracking for trophies at the end of the game will still get extremely tedious unless they introduce a more efficient for of fast travel.

It does lack a little bit of polish though. The skilltree can be extremely overwhelming for people starting out and i can see many people poorly investing their level-up points before they know what they really want to do with their character. Also, during my up to that point favorite bossfight, the boss glitched out of the arena and fell off a cliff. And no, it didn't seem intentional like it did with Ceaseless Discharge. Then there's the immersion breaking walls of light a la "you can't go through here without a special item", which i'd hoped to see done in a way that isn't as intrusive. Then again Dark Souls did the same thing.

But so far, the pros absolutely outweigh the cons. This game gets the "this time i'll absolutely beat this boss" feeling that Souls games invoke in me perfectly right. It's not quite as hard or big as the Souls games, thus being better suited for 1-3 hour playing sessions.

 

Yeah, I thought it was 10%, but wasn't certain. Never paid attention to the numbers, just noticed it was more when I had more, etc. 

 

Yeah, that skill tree is vast. The Fextralife wiki does say somewhere that there are items you can use to re-spec though, so it should be somewhat fluid if you mess up your build. 

 

What trophies are you anticipating having to backtrack for? Some of the bosses or oaths down hidden or locked paths?

 

Is the combat that close to RL though? If you stick with the sword, maybe, but even then you've still got nuance like parrying, light/heavy combos, etc. RL you just smack a dude with a 90 degree swing. I defer to your having played the game for longer, but don't the different weapons have different combos, reach, pros & cons?

Edited March 15, 2016 by StrickenBiged

[Pumpkin Head Cthulhu]

not a Souls fan but I am interested in this. Bloodborne was not too bad since it had improved controls and was Lovecraft inspired.

[Happy]

Yeah, I thought it was 10%, but wasn't certain. Never paid attention to the numbers, just noticed it was more when I had more, etc. 

 

Yeah, that skill tree is vast. The Fextralife wiki does say somewhere that there are items you can use to re-spec though, so it should be somewhat fluid if you mess up your build. 

 

What trophies are you anticipating having to backtrack for? Some of the bosses or oaths down hidden or locked paths?

 

Is the combat that close to RL though? If you stick with the sword, maybe, but even then you've still got nuance like parrying, light/heavy combos, etc. RL you just smack a dude with a 90 degree swing. I defer to your having played the game for longer, but don't the different weapons have different combos, reach, pros & cons?

I'm pretty sure that at least some of the oaths and sidequest are missable, so i'm expecting to have to walk all the way back at the end of the game. Unless we'll have to do NG+ for the second ending anyway, but there's not enough i fo to prove or disprove any of that. I know that there is an item that lets you fast travel to any Sanctuary that you used a specific stone statue on though.

The reason the game reminds me of Rogue Legacy is that spacing seems to be extremely important in this game. I've mostly been running around twohanding a greatsword, so i'd usually space myself so that hit my enemies but staying far away enough not to risk getting overwhelmed. That's exactly what i used to do in Rogue Legacy, so i make the subconscious connection fairly often.

Different weapons may obviously force different playstyles and i haven't even touched magic so all i can really conclude here is that twohanding a greatsword feels like playing Rogue Legacy lol

[StrickenBiged]

not a Souls fan but I am interested in this. Bloodborne was not too bad since it had improved controls and was Lovecraft inspired.

 

Mechanically, Bloodborne is almost identical to the Souls games - it's basically just an asset/theme/setting swap. If you liked the gameplay/mechanics of BB you'll like the Souls games. 

 

I should have mentioned that this game plays a lot faster too. Because it's 2D it's much easier to navigate than the Souls games, and you won't have to be checking your corners, etc, because there aren't any!

The reason the game reminds me of Rogue Legacy is that spacing seems to be extremely important in this game. I've mostly been running around twohanding a greatsword, so i'd usually space myself so that hit my enemies but staying far away enough not to risk getting overwhelmed. That's exactly what i used to do in Rogue Legacy, so i make the subconscious connection fairly often.

Different weapons may obviously force different playstyles and i haven't even touched magic so all i can really conclude here is that twohanding a greatsword feels like playing Rogue Legacy lol

 

Ok, I get what you were saying now. I thought you were being unfair to the game earlier! I know some people would have found RLs simple combat a turn off and I'd hate for them to leave this thread thinking that the combat here was as simple as it is in RL. 

 

I'm keen to try out magic. Might start an alt character before I get too far into it, just to check it out. The Hunter looks like it'd have an interesting playstyle too - crossbow and whip seems like it would lend itself to fast, long-to-mid range combat. 

[awf9495]

Thanks for the write up.  I am definitely looking forward to checking this one out, but will try and hold out for the Vita release (or a really good sale, whichever comes first).

[Condemned09]

Thanks for the write up.This game looks awesome can't wait to play it one day

[SuffyZorugelion]

Looks like a game desperately trying to cash in on the Souls series success. It has way too much shameless similarities to be called a tribute.

Edited March 15, 2016 by LovesAnInjection

[StrickenBiged]

Looks like a game desperately trying to cash in on the Souls series success. It has way too much shameless similarities to be called a tribute.

 

Are you saying this is a bad thing? If they had used completely original mechanics, would the game have been better? 

 

Games borrow good ideas from one another all the time. Almost every FPS since Halo had regenerating health and a 2 weapon carry-limit, Gears of War set the standard for 3rd person cover shooters, the list goes on and on. 

 

Copying and evolving on good ideas doesn't make a game bad, it can only make it better, surely? Imitation is the best form of flattery and all that. 

[SuffyZorugelion]

Are you saying this is a bad thing? If they had used completely original mechanics, would the game have been better? 

 

Games borrow good ideas from one another all the time. Almost every FPS since Halo had regenerating health and a 2 weapon carry-limit, Gears of War set the standard for 3rd person cover shooters, the list goes on and on. 

 

Copying and evolving on good ideas doesn't make a game bad, it can only make it better, surely? Imitation is the best form of flattery and all that. 

I'm not saying it cant be a good game. Just wondering why anyone would be inspired to make something so damn similiar and not to do something original. Of course the gameplay might be solid, personally I dont care for this.

[Hemiak]

This has been added to my to buy list for my non existent PS4.  

[Pumpkin Head Cthulhu]

Mechanically, Bloodborne is almost identical to the Souls games - it's basically just an asset/theme/setting swap. If you liked the gameplay/mechanics of BB you'll like the Souls games. 

 

I should have mentioned that this game plays a lot faster too. Because it's 2D it's much easier to navigate than the Souls games, and you won't have to be checking your corners, etc, because there aren't any!

 

Ok, I get what you were saying now. I thought you were being unfair to the game earlier! I know some people would have found RLs simple combat a turn off and I'd hate for them to leave this thread thinking that the combat here was as simple as it is in RL. 

 

I'm keen to try out magic. Might start an alt character before I get too far into it, just to check it out. The Hunter looks like it'd have an interesting playstyle too - crossbow and whip seems like it would lend itself to fast, long-to-mid range combat. 

 

The Souls series games very sluggish and clunky. i say this after playing Demon and Dark Souls 1 simply because i love the Designs. Bloodbourne plays smoother than Souls which is why i felt it was OK. However the controls killed the games for me but i still give each entry a chance.

[StrickenBiged]

Played another few hours last night. Tried a Mage and a Hunter out. 

 

The Mage is fun. Thought that the spellcasting system was interesting - casting your spell uses stamina and each cast reduces your maximum stamina by a few points until you next rest at a sanctuary. Makes for an interesting trade-off, where you're constantly thinking "right, so do I risk taking these guys on with just a sword, or do I deplete my max stamina further", especially when you're feeling that a boss or another tough enemy might be right around the corner. 

 

Hunter was also good fun. Dual-wielding a whip and a crossbow, you can get some pretty cool combos going and, provided you're quick, generally stay out of range of any attacks while still being able to dish the damage yourself. Unfortunately, ammo becomes a concern. Bolts that miss their target are lost for good, but any that connect are dropped by the enemy when they die. Managed to keep almost all of the starting 20 bolts as I traveled through the first zone, but spent them all on the boss, who I then had to finish off with my whip. The boss didn't seem to drop any of the bolts I'd spent on him though. 

 

Both magic and ranged weapons can be aimed by holding down the cast button and using :l:, so it's useful to take out enemies on different levels.

 

Getting fed up of using to attempt to dodge... Still in that Souls mindset, must remember that it's in this game... Most of my deaths come when I panic and press ...

 

Found out that by answering differently to the first guy on the beach you can start with either The Three, Devara's Light or The Iron Ones as your religion, so those 3 trophies are available from the start. 

 

While playing as my Hunter I found a level 1 greatsword. Couldn't equip it so switched back to my Knight and got to the same place. So, with greatswords, if you have the same swordmanship level (unlocked on the skill tree) as the greatsword you want to use then you can only dual hand equip it. If you're one swordmanship level above the greatsword, you can equip it one handed. Really like using this weapon - it's got phenomenal reach and damage - might stick with the character for a bit longer. 

[Gage]

I've found greatsword to be the best so far. Two hand with light armor, basically walk through most enemies so far up to the 7th boss area. Gave up on blocking with the shield right away and just dodge roll all the time.

[StrickenBiged]

I've found greatsword to be the best so far. Two hand with light armor, basically walk through most enemies so far up to the 7th boss area. Gave up on blocking with the shield right away and just dodge roll all the time.

 

Yeah, I'm only wearing the Knight's heavy armour chest piece and rogue set for the hands, legs, head so that I can roll quickly. 

 

Do you know what the exact encumbrance level for quicker rolling is? (e.g. 50%?). My style in DS has always been to boost my endurance so that I could roll like a ninja while wearing a really heavy armour set, would quite like to try the same with this character.

[TwilightSpira]

it's indeed a great game, i'm dying to finally kindle and be a champion of ash, so salt really came as a pleasant surprise.

 

 

[TwilightSpira]

getting better and better