Smashero

Is that against the rules?

162 posts in this topic

I suggest we don’t add anything to the rules, as there is already clause “Any impossible timestamps within a game list can get flagged” under the not flaggable paragraph Playing multiple consoles at once.

 

1 minute ago, adam1984123 said:

You can't.

Exactly.

That’s the reason why using your own save files is flaggable too, ‘cos timestamps aren’t distinguishable from downloaded and resigned save files.

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2 minutes ago, adam1984123 said:

So tell me how you distinguish between that and someone who uses CFW to pop trophies quicker than what would be possible through normal play?

 

You can't. 

 

If you do this, it opens up so many flagged disputes where people could claim "I had a mate playing the same game on a different console at the same time on the same account". It would be a joke. 

Surely that's where the "evidence" comes into place if/when you get flagged?!

If you've got pictures/videos of your set up which prove that you were playing the same game on 2 different consoles (videos of trophies popping etc.), then surely a flag could not stand? 🤔

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1 minute ago, Dino_Roar said:

Surely that's where the "evidence" comes into place if/when you get flagged?!

If you've got pictures/videos of your set up which prove that you were playing the same game on 2 different consoles (videos of trophies popping etc.), then surely a flag could not stand? 1f914.png

Typically photos, etc.  don't stack up as evidence because they be easily faked and don't really prove anything. 

 

Most flags are lifted when evidence is produced to show that these particular time stamps can be replicated through regular playing or use of a glitch in the game or if there is common knowledge of glitches/bugs with certain trophies. 

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1 minute ago, Dino_Roar said:

If you've got pictures/videos of your set up which prove that you were playing the same game on 2 different consoles (videos of trophies popping etc.), then surely a flag could not stand?

 

No pictures or videos of people using their own save files will lift the flag though.

Because the policy here is “we don’t want impossible timestamps on the leaderboard”, as @MMDE stated multiple times.

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12 minutes ago, adam1984123 said:

So tell me how you distinguish between that and someone who uses CFW to pop trophies quicker than what would be possible through normal play?

 

You can't. 

 

If you do this, it opens up so many flagged disputes where people could claim "I had a mate playing the same game on a different console at the same time on the same account". It would be a joke. 


You have to convince the flagging team and they have to buy the story. ^^

And yes I can. @MMDE made a perfect example:
 

19 hours ago, MMDE said:

So here's something to think about. Most games are linear in it's progression. Let's say we got a game that requires two playthroughs, NG and NG+. You can't start NG+ on any of the consoles before you actually beat NG, so the time between first story related and NG beat and NG beat and NG+ beat shouldn't be shorter just because you played on multiple consoles. If you make it to NG+ much earlier on one than the others, that trophy should be synced and you will then have the natural time between NG and NG+.

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6 minutes ago, Se7en said:

 

No pictures or videos of people using their own save files will lift the flag though.

Because the policy here is “we don’t want impossible timestamps on the leaderboard”, as @MMDE stated multiple times.

 

That's in the case of deleting trophies earned AKA use save files you've made progress on where you never sync the initial earning of the trophies to pop trophies too fast or out of order.

Edited by MMDE
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14 minutes ago, Se7en said:

I suggest we don’t add anything to the rules, as there is already clause “Any impossible timestamps within a game list can get flagged” under the not flaggable paragraph Playing multiple consoles at once.


That is not completely clear, otherwise this question wouldn't have come up at all. Adding "even the same game" would make the rules much clearer. Half of the community thought that was forbidden, because that's missing.

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6 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

 


You have to convince the flagging team and they have to buy the story. ^^

And yes I can. @MMDE made a perfect example:
 

Yes, his example is fine because the time progression between trophies is plausible for normal playthrough. 

 

What is being discussed is using 2 consoles, on the same account, at the same time, by two different people to pop trophies for the same game which would potentially shorten a grind in a game and at the same time produces impossible timestamps when compared to normal play. 

 

Of course, you can play with this setup as long as the trophies pop with a normal gap between them. But then, what's the point of using this setup when you wouldn't actually save any time when compared to playing normally. 

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16 minutes ago, MMDE said:

That's in the case of deleting trophies earned AKA use save files you've made progress on where you never sync the initial earning of the trophies to pop trophies too fast or out of order.

So popping trophies too fast with your own save files is a no-no, because “we don’t want impossible timestamps on the leaderboard”, but popping trophies too fast with multiple consoles is okay, right?

 

9 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

That is not completely clear

It looks pretty clear to me: playing different games simultaneously on different consoles is okay. But when you play the same game on multiple consoles and get impossibly close timestamps it is flaggable.

 

Edited by Se7en
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1 minute ago, adam1984123 said:

What is being discussed is using 2 consoles, on the same account, at the same time, by two different people to pop trophies for the same game which would potentially shorten a grind in a game and at the same time produces impossible timestamps when compared to normal play. 


The problem is your definition of "normal play". Why calling it "not normal" when I play with a friend the same game at the same time on different consoles on one account? It's even supported by Sony. They also could delete trophies from already synced time frames.

4 minutes ago, Se7en said:

 

So popping trophies too fast with your own save files is a no-no, because “we don’t want impossible timestamps on the leaderboard”, but popping trophies too fast with multiple consoles is okay, right?


Yes, because you shorten the effort in one case.

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3 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

Yes, because you shorten the effort in one case.

Well, I’d like to see the answer from the person who will have to deal with the consequences in dispute sub-forum.

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10 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:


The problem is your definition of "normal play". Why calling it "not normal" when I play with a friend the same game at the same time on different consoles on one account? It's even supported by Sony. They also could delete trophies from already synced time frames.

So the leader boards with respect to completion are there for those who want to measure themselves against others in terms of first to achieve or fastest to achieve, etc. 

 

If I were to play GTA IV story mode and then online mode and then work my way through the dlc to complete all trophies in say 1 month, that would place me in position x on the leader board. 

 

Then someone else comes along and plays the same game with 2 consoles at the same time with a mate on the dame account. One of them is doing the dlc and one is doing the story mode. Within seconds of each other, base game story trophies are popping with dlc trophies on the separate consoles. This has created an impossible time stamp between trophies. 

 

So many people have been removed for trophies popping too close together where they could have preached they were playing in this manner yet they were most likely using CFW. I don't know how you can distinguish between the two when it comes to time stamps. If you can explain that to me, I'd be happy to listen. 

 

Like I said, you could play with the two person setup as long as the gap between trophies is plausible, but then again, what's the point as you aren't actually going to make the grind any quicker. 

Edited by adam1984123
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11 minutes ago, Se7en said:

It looks pretty clear to me: playing different games simultaneously on different consoles is okay. But when you play the same game on multiple consoles and get impossibly close timestamps it is flaggable.


Did you even read this thread? 😅 So the rules are not meant.

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21 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

Did you even read this thread? 1f605.png So the rules are not meant.

 

I’ve read the rules. Unless they will be changed, right now they definitely allow playing multiple consoles until timestamps within a game list aren’t looking impossible.

 

Edited by Se7en
typo
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2 minutes ago, adam1984123 said:

If I were to play GTA IV story mode and then online mode and then work my way through the dlc to complete all trophies in say 1 month, that would place me in position x on the leader board. 

 

Then someone else comes along and plays the same game with 2 consoles at the same time with a mate on the dame account. One of them is doing the dlc and one is doing the story mode. Within seconds of each other, base game story trophies are popping with dlc trophies on the separate consoles. This has created an impossible time stamp between trophies. 


That's not impossible, as long as you can explain it credibly. This is is why I sent you the NG+ example. That would be impossible even with different consoles and people.

And anyone can make a record attempt with friends on different consoles so it's not unfair or anything.

 

3 minutes ago, Se7en said:

 

I’ve read the rules. Unless they will be changed, right now they definitely allow playing multiple consoles until timestamps within a game list aren’t look impossible.

 


I've also understand it this way first. But obviously playing the same game at the same time is allowed. This is why I would like to add it in the rules and make them clearer.

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4 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:


That's not impossible, as long as you can explain it credibly. This is is why I sent you the NG+ example. That would be impossible even with different consoles and people.

And anyone can make a record attempt with friends on different consoles so it's not unfair or anything.

Well I'm looking forward to the next dispute thread where someone has been flagged for trophies popping too close together and they go with the playing on 2 consoles at the same time story and the flag gets lifted. 

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15 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

Yes, because you shorten the effort in one case.

And actually, it is incorrect. You shorten time to platinum/complete game, in both cases. The effort is the same, it is just divided between team members with multiple consoles.

Which raises another question: why is it flaggable offence to shorten leaderboard completion time by deleting trophies and should be not flaggable to shorten leaderboard completion time by playing same game simultaneously on multiple consoles?

 

3 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

But obviously playing the same game at the same time is allowed.

Yes, it obviously is. Until timestamps aren’t impossible. Otherwise they are flaggable by current rules.

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10 minutes ago, Se7en said:

And actually, it is incorrect. You shorten time to platinum/complete game, in both cases. The effort is the same, it is just divided between team members with multiple consoles.

Which raises another question: why is it flaggable offence to shorten leaderboard completion time by deleting trophies and should be not flaggable to shorten leaderboard completion time by playing same game simultaneously on multiple consoles?

 

So since effort is divided, for me it is shortened, which is actually something what I wanted to achieve - it is already huge advantage for me already then.

 

10 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Yes, it obviously is. Until timestamps aren’t impossible. Otherwise they are flaggable by current rules.

 

So in this case you say that ok would be only if (we are still with PASBR since it is an easy example):

Player A is playing Arcade Mode with char 1, Player B is playing Arcade Mode with char 2 at the same time. Both are reaching last boss. Player A kills the boss, gets the trophy for completion the Arcade Mode witch char 1. In the meanwhile, Player B is waiting within the boss fight for 25-30 min, then kills him with char 2 getting the trophy related to char 2. Perfect, normal timeframe between timestamps after sync.

 

And only such case you find unflaggable use of same game at 1+ consoles, that's how I get it, right?

Edited by Smashero
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6 minutes ago, Se7en said:

And actually, it is incorrect. You shorten time to platinum/complete game, in both cases. The effort is the same, it is just divided between team members with multiple consoles.

Which raises another question: why is it flaggable offence to shorten leaderboard completion time by deleting trophies and should be not flaggable to shorten leaderboard completion time by playing same game simultaneously on multiple consoles?


The thing is you can copy save files. And your own save file is indistinguishable from another. If you copy save files you definitely shorten the effort. And if we allow own save files, we also have to allow save files from other people. And we all can imagine where that would end.

If you have a team account playing the same game at the same time. Then the effort is not shorten, but only provided simultaneously.

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9 minutes ago, Smashero said:

 

So since effort is divided, for me it is shortened, which is actually something what I wanted to achieve - it is already huge advantage for me already then.

 

 

So in this case you say that ok would be only if (we are still with PASBR since it is an easy example):

Player A is playing Arcade Mode with char 1, Player B is playing Arcade Mode with char 2 at the same time. Both are reaching last boss. Player A kills the boss, gets the trophy for completion the Arcade Mode witch char 1. In the meanwhile, Player B is waiting within the boss fight for 25-30 min, then kills him with char 2 getting the trophy related to char 2. Perfect, normal timeframe between timestamps after sync.

 

And only such case you find unflaggable use of same game at 1+ consoles, that's how I get it, right?

That's how I see it working. 

 

However, you wouldn't even be flagged because everything would look normal on timestamps and no one would know what you are doing except yourself and your mate. 

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1 minute ago, Smashero said:

So it means that effort for you is shortened, which is actually something which I wanted to achieve - it is already huge advantage for me already then.

Right, your personal effort will be halved, while the overall remains the same.

 

3 minutes ago, Smashero said:

So in this case you say that ok would be only if (we are still with PASBR since it is an easy example):

Player A is playing Arcade Mode with char 1, Player B is playing Arcade Mode with char 2 at the same time. Both are reaching last boss. Player A kills the boss, gets the trophy for completion the Arcade Mode witch char 1. In the meanwhile, Player B is waiting within the boss fight for 25-30 min, then kills him with char 2 getting the trophy related to char 2. Perfect, normal timeframe between timestamps after sync.

Not necessarily like that. There are other possible ways to share the effort while evading timestamps indistinguishable from trophy cheating. E.g., person 1 plays his part of challenges in the morning, and person 2 plays his part in the afternoon.

 

7 minutes ago, Smashero said:

And only such case you find unflaggable use of same game at 1+ consoles, that's how I get it, right?

That’s not up to me to decide what is flaggable here and what is not. I’ve just read the rules and in their current version multiple consoles are okay until timestamps aren’t looking impossible. that is why I want @MMDE to answer my question: is popping trophies too fast with multiple consoles okay and not flaggable?

 

10 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

And your own save file is indistinguishable from another.

And achieving trophies simultaneously on multiple consoles is also indistinguishable from the save files usage. That’s the point.

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2 minutes ago, Se7en said:

That’s not up to me to decide what is flaggable here and what is not. I’ve just read the rules and in their current version multiple consoles are okay until timestamps aren’t looking impossible. that is why I want @MMDE to answer my question: is popping trophies too fast with multiple consoles okay and not flaggable?

 

Pretty sure I already answered this. Just don't try to out-clever yourself. Don't make it look like you used a downloaded save or edited timestamps.

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9 minutes ago, Se7en said:

That’s not up to me to decide what is flaggable here and what is not. I’ve just read the rules and in their current version multiple consoles are okay until timestamps aren’t looking impossible. that is why I want @MMDE to answer my question: is popping trophies too fast with multiple consoles okay and not flaggable?

 

And achieving trophies simultaneously on multiple consoles is also indistinguishable from the save files usage. That’s the point.

 

He already answered it. ^^

Not in every case. The NG+ thing is a perfect example.

Edit:

If you need 20 consoles to explain your timestamps I'm pretty sure the flagging team won't buy it. And if you really have 20 consoles it's pretty easy to prove.

Edited by BigBossImBeamer
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