RPG Mania

[Leon Castle]

8 hours ago, ladynadiad said:

 

Bear in mind, I'm not outright familiar with the game or what the trophy list entails doing, plus the flavor text in the descriptions makes it a lot harder to tell if these lists are significantly different enough.  Are you saying you think it is different enough to count as a unique game without beast mode (which would be 157.89 points instead) or should it not count as a unique game?

It should count as a unique game. While it has additional story and two new characters (one boss made playable and one all new character) and Sherman as a permanent party member(Vile God Route only) it also has little Gameplay changes like 6 characters in the battle party (FFF had the normal 4 characters in the battle party) and the ability to fly(better to show it) on the only Big Field made for Advent Dark Force

and new CGs(like ending pics for all the girls that did not have one in Fairy Fencer F and one more ending pic for Tiara and Eryn etc.) and at least one edited CG.

Spoiler

Fairy Fencer F Version

Advent Dark Force Version

 

[Warpedsavior]

In my personal opinion, while I wouldn’t say that both games are completely different, I feel like Advent Dark Force has enough differences to qualify it as a separate game from the original PS3 game. I feel like it should count for points, that’s my opinion on the matter.

 

Anyways, I got all the trophies for Assassin’s Creed Origins, including all it’s dlc trophies. The points should be:

Base game: 100+70-28.48-0=141.52

DLC Pack 1: 50+12-24.70-0=37.3

DLC Pack 2: 50+3-24.32-0=28.68

DLC Pack 3: 50+13-25.91-0=37.09

[ladynadiad]

1 hour ago, Warpedsavior said:

In my personal opinion, while I wouldn’t say that both games are completely different, I feel like Advent Dark Force has enough differences to qualify it as a separate game from the original PS3 game. I feel like it should count for points, that’s my opinion on the matter.

 

Do you feel that it also should qualify for beast mode as a new game in the series or not?  I get the impression from what I've found that Advent Dark Force Replaces Fairy Fencer F with all the recommendations to just skip Fairy Fencer F.  From the sounds of what I have read, it sounds more like its a case of Advent Dark Force replaces Fairy Fencer F.  Is that the case or am I misunderstanding?

 

@jemmie - I've gone ahead and added ADF to your listing since enough agree it should count as a unique game at least but still need people to weigh in regarding beast mode.

Edited September 30, 2019 by ladynadiad

[Kevvik]

I think that if it counts as a unique game then the beast mode should apply. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Kevvik

[Warpedsavior]

9 hours ago, ladynadiad said:

 

Now that’s a bit tricky, Advent Dark Force does have the single route from the original, but Advent Dark Force also has a lot added, including the two extra routes which are required for platinum, along with other changes from the original.

 

In the end, I would say that I agree with Kevvik, that if it counts as a unique game, then the beast mode bonus should apply.

[ladynadiad]

I still highly disagree but added as beast mode.  I'm going to say now that if anyone wants to play a port/remaster of an original and has also played the original during this event that they should ask before playing because this one is definitely an exception.  In most cases the new content is nominal enough that the port/remaster is a stack of the same game with a few new trophies, if that.

[jemmie]

5 hours ago, ladynadiad said:

I still highly disagree but added as beast mode.  I'm going to say now that if anyone wants to play a port/remaster of an original and has also played the original during this event that they should ask before playing because this one is definitely an exception.  In most cases the new content is nominal enough that the port/remaster is a stack of the same game with a few new trophies, if that.

Well, I might as well say now that there's a chance I'm playing HDN VIIR before this ends.

[ladynadiad]

1 hour ago, jemmie said:

Well, I might as well say now that there's a chance I'm playing HDN VIIR before this ends.

 

Same deal then.  If two others chime in and say they feel it counts as a unique game + beast mode then it can.  I have already checked into it on Steam in their forums and the reviews and would vote that it does not count as a unique game and does not qualify for beast mode.  It appears to be a remaster with upgraded graphics, some additional VR scenes (that don't even require VR), some DLC characters and some changes to combat.  Definitely not as pronounced of a difference as the original HDN games and the Re;Birth games.  It seems to be to be more like the Tales of Graces vs. Tales of Graces f example I gave earlier.  Or to give two that are both on PSN, The Vita and PS4 versions of Lacrimosa of Dana or Tokyo Xanadu.

[Warpedsavior]

Another game complete! Super Neptunia RPG

That should give 100+68-35.88-0=132.12

132.12*3=396.36 points

 

As for Neptunia VII vs Neptunia VIIR, the one significant difference I see are the trophy lists themselves.

[ladynadiad]

1 hour ago, Warpedsavior said:

Another game complete! Super Neptunia RPG

That should give 100+68-35.88-0=132.12

132.12*3=396.36 points

 

As for Neptunia VII vs Neptunia VIIR, the one significant difference I see are the trophy lists themselves.

 

Well, that just boosted you a few ranks!  I really need to get off my butt and finish my last two Kiseki games and Omega Quintet, but Zero no Kiseki is really being a pain in my ass so Kevvik can stay at first a bit longer.  But CS3 comes out later this month, so that top spot may not last.

 

And I think it sounds like it boils down to what Kevvik said "different accomplishments within essentially the same game"  Fairy Fencer F: Advent Dark Force seemed to be more of a old version was a part of the game but they added enough content on top of that to be worthy of a unique game.  Even if I disagree, I get where you guys were coming from.

 

About the only fair compromise I can think of is for remasters/remakes/ports that are still similar but have some differences to their trophy lists is counting them like DLC.  That wouldn't add to beast mode and would be reduced points, but would be better than not counting at all and would still get LP modifiers and whatever beast mode the first game got.  Of course I know changing the rules now seems unfair, but again this was something we really didn't think of at the start and would depend on if you guys think that is a good idea of if it shouldn't count at all, or should count fully and add to beast mode as well.

[Dragon-Archon]

On 9/29/2019 at 6:21 PM, ladynadiad said:

 

Then explain to me how two different games have the following:

 

1. The same page in Wikipedia.

2. People saying you only need to play one of that they are the same game.  I can find plenty of spots where this is said:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/347830/discussions/0/1648791520836498507/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/347830/discussions/0/2552901289718159847/

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/835983-fairy-fencer-f-advent-dark-force/74316639

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/835983-fairy-fencer-f-advent-dark-force/71683308

 

As far it's been stated, beast mode is only supposed to count for two different games in the same series, not for remasters or ports of the same game, which is what Advent Dark Force appears to be and in the last topic I linked someone even asks if it compares to HDN vs Re;Birth and it was said it more like Tales of Graces and Tales of Graces f.  Since I'm not familiar with the game besides the research I've done, I'll let the others weigh in and if two people agree on either or both counts, I'll add it.  I did ask Leon Castle for clarification because to be honest I can't say if that was saying more than it should at least count as a unique game.

 

@Kevvik, @Dragon-Archon, @Warpedsavior, @ShinigamiSensei- - care to give your thoughts on if Fairy Fencer F: Advent Dark Force should A) count for points or be considered a stack and B ) count for a beast mode bonus or no, it's the same game?

I say it shouldn't count for points nor for a beast mode bonus, as Advent Dark Force is an enhanced version of FFF: it's the exact same game with additional story content. The story from FFF hasn't been changed in the slightest, there's just more added to it. That would be the same as saying Ys VIII PS4 version counts as a separate game from Ys VIII Vita version or that God Eater 2 Rage Burst and God Eater 2 should count as separate games or even Dragon's Dogma and Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen. If you play FFF:ADF (or Ys VIII PS4, GE2RB, and DD:DA for that matter) you won't miss out on anything from the vanilla game and won't even need to play it.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Dragon-Archon

[ladynadiad]

29 minutes ago, Dragon-Archon said:

I say it shouldn't count for points nor for a beast mode bonus, as Advent Dark Force is an enhanced version of FFF: it's the exact same game with additional story content. The story from FFF hasn't been changed in the slightest, there's just more added to it. That would be the same as saying Ys VIII PS4 version counts as a separate game from Ys VIII Vita version or that God Eater 2 Rage Burst and God Eater 2 should count as separate games or even Dragon's Dogma and Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen. If you play FFF:ADF (or Ys VIII PS4, GE2RB, and DD:DA for that matter) you won't miss out on anything from the vanilla game and won't even need to play it.

 

Hey, if Ys VIII PS4 can count as a separate game from the Vita version I'd like to know where I can import a Japanese or European Vita version for a reasonable price. 

 

But anyway, two people did end up agreeing it should count for ADF but I outright said that is an exception and any other similar cases will need people weighing in to agree.  Would I be correct in assuming you also would feel the same regarding HDN VII and VIIR not being worthy of counting for points or beast mode?

[jemmie]

18 hours ago, ladynadiad said:

About the only fair compromise I can think of is for remasters/remakes/ports that are still similar but have some differences to their trophy lists is counting them like DLC.  That wouldn't add to beast mode and would be reduced points, but would be better than not counting at all and would still get LP modifiers and whatever beast mode the first game got.  Of course I know changing the rules now seems unfair, but again this was something we really didn't think of at the start and would depend on if you guys think that is a good idea of if it shouldn't count at all, or should count fully and add to beast mode as well.

I won't argue whether VIIR should count until I actually play it (because I feel like I shouldn't be defending a game I haven't played), but I just want to point out that making the game DLC would actually give me more points since it would then be triple points.

 

3 hours ago, Dragon-Archon said:

I say it shouldn't count for points nor for a beast mode bonus, as Advent Dark Force is an enhanced version of FFF: it's the exact same game with additional story content. The story from FFF hasn't been changed in the slightest, there's just more added to it. That would be the same as saying Ys VIII PS4 version counts as a separate game from Ys VIII Vita version or that God Eater 2 Rage Burst and God Eater 2 should count as separate games or even Dragon's Dogma and Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen. If you play FFF:ADF (or Ys VIII PS4, GE2RB, and DD:DA for that matter) you won't miss out on anything from the vanilla game and won't even need to play it.

If we're just talking about the original story route, there are some changes in the story that may seem minor but add up over time. Extra lines of dialogue are sprinkled here and there to add more characterization, and there are a few instances where parts of the plot change to give some of the villains a reason behind their actions. I can give you the specifics privately since I don't want to drop spoilers. Also, the prologue evolves from two fights to an entire dungeon, and there are several other dungeons and cutscenes that are added to the original story to give more chances to interact with some of the characters that got less screen time in the original. I agree that you can skip FFF (unless you're a completionist), but I can say from personal experience that it does not feel like playing the same game twice.

[Leon Castle]

As for the Neptunia VII vs Neptunia VIIR debate, it should at least have get the same amount of points as DLC if one Neptunia VII was done before as for me, VIIR is more of a downgrade than a remake (as it removed more then it added like just having one ending and did not make any of the DLC characters from VII into base game characters and removed them instead.)

 

While I know figuring out if Code Vein is in the same universe as God Eater won't give me the beast mode bonus, I'm going to see if those so called "Horrors" the quest/memory characters is talking about at times is the "Aragami" of the God Eater series (The reason I think the "Horrors" is the "Aragami" is that one of the quest characters called a Lost a Monster instead of Horror) for the fun of it.

[jemmie]

Platinum #8 - Steins;Gate: 67+48.72 = 115.72

 

Current Score - 2,694.41

 

Believe it or not, it counts.

[Kevvik]

14 hours ago, jemmie said:

Platinum #8 - Steins;Gate: 67+48.72 = 115.72

 

Current Score - 2,694.41

 

Believe it or not, it counts.

 

I believe it, I posted a month ago when I played it for Gaming by the Numbers.

 

On my side, another completion, Atelier Rorona Plus: The Alchemist of Arland

 

100 + 70 (12+14+44) - 6.34 = 163.66 points

 

My first Atelier game. I liked the style but doing all the stuff to make gear to fight the super bosses got a little tedious. I don't know if I'll do another during this event but we'll see. I'll definitely come back at some point.

 

To weigh in on the Neptunia VIIR, from what little I've seen/read, the game doesn't look different enough that I would consider it a different game, sort of a stack with different trophy list. I'd consider it pretty much the same game and not eligible for BM, DLC or unique status but that is an uneducated impression. 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Kevvik

[ladynadiad]

15 minutes ago, Kevvik said:

 

I believe it, I posted a month ago when I played it for Gaming by the Numbers.

 

On my side, another completion, Atelier Rorona Plus: The Alchemist of Arland

 

100 + 70 (12+14+44) - 6.34 = 163.66 points

 

My first Atelier game. I liked the style but doing all the stuff to make gear to fight the super bosses got a little tedious. I don't know if I'll do another during this event but we'll see. I'll definitely come back at some point.

 

I have the PS3 version in my backlog and recall getting stuck in one of the assignments.   Looks like it was assignment 6.  The sudden shift from oh hey make these items to oh hey go kill these stupidly powerful monsters left me wondering how do I do this?  Is there a good guide somewhere for the game that could help?  Or is the Plus version way different and you don't have any tips there?

 

By the way, congrats on hitting 5k points.  I'm hoping I can start to catch up with my second double point game coming out this month.  That's assuming I can finish the other two in the series as well before I get that plat (before it comes out is probably not happening, but before I get the plat should be doable if my current one doesn't glitch on me again).

[AlchemistWer]

6 minutes ago, ladynadiad said:

I have the PS3 version in my backlog

You must go back and help Rorona-chan.

 

 

[Kevvik]

6 minutes ago, ladynadiad said:

 

I have the PS3 version in my backlog and recall getting stuck in one of the assignments.   Looks like it was assignment 6.  The sudden shift from oh hey make these items to oh hey go kill these stupidly powerful monsters left me wondering how do I do this?  Is there a good guide somewhere for the game that could help?  Or is the Plus version way different and you don't have any tips there?

 

By the way, congrats on hitting 5k points.  I'm hoping I can start to catch up with my second double point game coming out this month.  That's assuming I can finish the other two in the series as well before I get that plat (before it comes out is probably not happening, but before I get the plat should be doable if my current one doesn't glitch on me again).

 

I haven't played the PS3 version so I couldn't directly speak to the differences. I picked up all 3 of the Arland plus games in a bundle last year sometime and haven't touched the other two yet.

 

I didn't find the monster jump too bad as I tend to grind where I can so I'm not usually too under-levelled most times.

 

I did find a good guide that I wished I'd looked at earlier than I did but it only took a couple of times going to old saves to set up for getting the endings quicker. It worked well for me...

 

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps4/244712-atelier-rorona-the-alchemist-of-arland-dx/faqs/76823

 

[ladynadiad]

26 minutes ago, AlchemistWer said:

You must go back and help Rorona-chan.

 

I plan on it someday, I also recall my PS3 controller broke around then too so that contributed.  I'll probably go back after this event is over though since I already have a good chunk of what I'm playing for this event planned, at least the more meaty titles.  Not adding another lengthy title until I wrap up CS3, Ao no Kiseki, Zero no Kiseki and Omega Quintet.  I know someday I want to get rid of those Cs and Ds I have and also wipe out the two KH games.

 

25 minutes ago, Kevvik said:

I haven't played the PS3 version so I couldn't directly speak to the differences. I picked up all 3 of the Arland plus games in a bundle last year sometime and haven't touched the other two yet.

 

I didn't find the monster jump too bad as I tend to grind where I can so I'm not usually too under-levelled most times.

 

I did find a good guide that I wished I'd looked at earlier than I did but it only took a couple of times going to old saves to set up for getting the endings quicker. It worked well for me...

 

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps4/244712-atelier-rorona-the-alchemist-of-arland-dx/faqs/76823

 

 

Definitely will keep that on hand.  Wish GameFAQs had a nice way to mark guides for games one is going to play later but I'll likely toss in a bookmark.  But yeah, one big issue probably is that I'm very underleveled.

[AlchemistWer]

19 minutes ago, ladynadiad said:

CS3, Ao no Kiseki, Zero no Kiseki and Omega Quintet.

Wow you have a lot of work to do, I hope you enjoy Omega Quintet, personally the game is awful and boring.

[ladynadiad]

10 hours ago, AlchemistWer said:

Wow you have a lot of work to do, I hope you enjoy Omega Quintet, personally the game is awful and boring.

 

It's okay in short doses.  I just boot it up and wipe out a quest here and there at this point.  I do need to pick up the pace a bit more though if I hope to finish it before this is over.

 

Edit: So I don't double post, finally finished Zero no Kiseki at last.  Rarity for that plat was 16.20 and it also is my second Legend of Heroes game so it got a beast mode multiplier of 0.5 for a total of 229.20.  And that was absolutely hands down the biggest pain in the ass plat in the whole series so far.  Contrary to what guides said, difficulty trophies didn't stack.  I ran into some sort of a glitch for the battle notebook trophy and had to redo everything for that.  That doesn't even get into the sheer amount of inaccuracies in the guides available and the fact that I had to refer to around five guides for this game.

 

Now on to Ao no Kiseki and hopefully the one guide for that game is much better and I don't need four playthroughs for the plat since I want to knock this one out before I get the CS3 plat, and I'd like to make it my 100th plat as well (which also means I need to find two random EZ PZ plats to do before finishing that).

Edited October 6, 2019 by ladynadiad

[Dragon-Archon]

On 10/4/2019 at 9:41 PM, ladynadiad said:

 

Hey, if Ys VIII PS4 can count as a separate game from the Vita version I'd like to know where I can import a Japanese or European Vita version for a reasonable price. 

 

But anyway, two people did end up agreeing it should count for ADF but I outright said that is an exception and any other similar cases will need people weighing in to agree.  Would I be correct in assuming you also would feel the same regarding HDN VII and VIIR not being worthy of counting for points or beast mode?

Yeah, I feel the same about HDN VII and VIIR. I must say I'm surprised we're even having this discussion, since I've seen people mention something about not wanting to change things after the contest started.

 

On 10/5/2019 at 0:32 AM, jemmie said:

If we're just talking about the original story route, there are some changes in the story that may seem minor but add up over time. Extra lines of dialogue are sprinkled here and there to add more characterization, and there are a few instances where parts of the plot change to give some of the villains a reason behind their actions. I can give you the specifics privately since I don't want to drop spoilers. Also, the prologue evolves from two fights to an entire dungeon, and there are several other dungeons and cutscenes that are added to the original story to give more chances to interact with some of the characters that got less screen time in the original. I agree that you can skip FFF (unless you're a completionist), but I can say from personal experience that it does not feel like playing the same game twice.

The keyword in this is "added". I'd like to know how much of the vanilla game is actually altered that affects the story as in playing FFF:ADF means you'd never know about that unless you play FFF too.

 

The prologue still has two scripted fights, but the 5-minute dungeon has been added. Fang's second transformation is changed, but he got a second form in FFF too, so that's purely cosmetic and doesn't affect the story.

[Leon Castle]

Question if it turns out that Code Vein is part of the God Eater series, do I get the Beast Mode Bonus? The reason I ask is due to a Aragami showing up near endgame or after final boss (not there yet)

 

I don't think I get the Beast Mode just because a Grandpa Tiger Dyaus Pita shows up in Code Vein.

[jemmie]

21 minutes ago, Dragon-Archon said:

The keyword in this is "added". I'd like to know how much of the vanilla game is actually altered that affects the story as in playing FFF:ADF means you'd never know about that unless you play FFF too.

 

The prologue still has two scripted fights, but the 5-minute dungeon has been added. Fang's second transformation is changed, but he got a second form in FFF too, so that's purely cosmetic and doesn't affect the story.

The two dungeons that are added in the beginning of the story introduce you to some of the characters early, which changes the interactions with these characters later on. Also, since it's come to this, I'll list some of the more prominent story changes in a spoiler tag. Read at your own risk.

Spoiler

• In FFF, Galdo is a happy-go-lucky battle maniac the first time you fight him. He only joins Fang the first time because Fang saves his life. In Advent Dark Force, it is clear that Galdo has a distaste for what his superior, Zenke, is doing and has an internal monologue to steel himself up for his fight against Fang.
• In FFF, there is no explanation as to why Sherman's personality changes in the second timeline. It's implied that the Vile God has corrupted Sherman's soul, but we never find out how this happened. In Advent Dark Force, it is confirmed that Sherman actually leaps to the past along with Fang and Eryn and meets the Vile God right before doing so. This explains the dramatic change in his character.
• Now, you may argue that my first two examples are just the same plot with Advent Dark Force filling up the holes, but this next one is a definite change in character. In FFF, Marianna uses the orphans as hostages to assist in defeating Fang. She has absolutely no remorse and doesn't care at all when Zagi dies. In Advent Dark Force, it is Sherman who takes the children hostage to ensure that Marianna doesn't lose, and Marianna is noticeably upset by this (even more so when Zagi sacrifices himself to save the children).

These are just a few examples. The story may have the same outcome in both games, but it's the experience that makes them unique.