A calmer view on 2.60 update and trophy 'hiding'

[lporiginalg]

Well I wasn't going to argue my "negative" side here since you asked me not to, but since you are now asking for my opinion...

 

First thing is, I guess I consider myself a "completionist" when it comes to trophy hunting. So it's important to understand that I and others like me put an arguably disproportionate value on completion ratio. So basically I don't really see your trophy level being lowered as any actual kind of penalty since I don't care what you're level is. 25/25 games at level 13 is more impressive to me than 25/125 games at level 26. On some level you must feel the same way otherwise I'm not sure why you would bother to hide all those trophies.

 

I'm not sure if I understand your first question, but if you mean had you only actually played those 25 games and synched them only at 100% then I have no idea why I would consider that as bad. I would consider that as a perfectly legitimate and respectable 100% completion ratio. The way I feel now, and this is just my honest opinion so sorry if it offends people, but the icon that shows hidden trophies on a profile is basically a mark of shame. A big scarlet 'H', if you will. If you aren't ashamed of the games you hide, or feel like they make your profile look worse when revealed, then there wouldn't be any reason to hide them, right?

 

Lots of people feel that if a game is impossible to 100% then that's a good reason to hide it. I don't personally agree with this. I'm not in that situation myself, but if it happened I would rather just leave it on there and people could see why it's not finished, better that in my opinion than to have them think I hid a game because it was too hard or because I just couldn't be bothered with it.

 

As for the money issue when it comes to DLC, trust me I feel the pain on this one. Every completionist does. What's worse than slogging through a game you don't like to get the trophies? Having to spend more money on said game to get the 100%. But again, doing so shows your level of commitment. I have a friend who has a high completion ratio, but most of his missing trophies are from DLC that he obviously doesn't own. It's not worth it to him to throw money away like that, and I get that. I don't think any less of the people who won't do this, I just think my level of trophy OCD is higher than theirs.

 

I do think it's a bit of a mysnomer that completionists avoid games that are difficult to complete. If you look at the completionist leaderboard on PS3Trophies.org you will see most everyone on there has some very difficult or time consuming games. In fact the truth is we don't always research things as much as you might think. Sometimes it's fun to just jump into a game blind and deal with the consequences later. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. For me it's happened at least two times. First with Uncharted 3, when I saw the time to get the DLC trophies I was like "NOPE!" and more recently when Battlefield 3 came to PS+ I was considering trying it out but when I saw there was 5 DLC trophy packs again I was just like "NOPE!"

 

Anyway sorry for the short novel but that's my view on it. Just to be clear again tho, I don't look down on people with low completion ratios. I think that's another mysnomer about us completionists. I know it's a bit of a sickness I have, which is why it's often described as OCD. It's just what I like to do and it's fun to compete at it with other people who share the same hobby but it's kind of silly to think we go around scoffing at people who don't do this.

[Memnoch]

Well I wasn't going to argue my "negative" side here since you asked me not to, but since you are now asking for my opinion...

 

 

I have no issues when it is clear and well explained and especially without whining. It also happened to be a very interesting read and a very valid opinion, so I'm happy you did write the 'short novel' - This issue is definitely shades of grey and not black and white

 

I won't really go into how 'completionists' chose games, as you most probably do it a totally different way to others. I do know that some people only choose a game after an estimated risk to losing 100%, but again that cannot be defined to all completionists

 

End of the day we are all gamers, I hate trying to compartimentalise it

 

there aren't many games I would actually remove from my list as I will finish them eventually, but a few games I would like to have a permanent delete button for too

 

To be fair, I don't agree that the amount of 'hidden' trophies should even be on users page because it will create flaming issues, but if Sly thought it to be the best option, I'll not complain as he tends to know what he is doing. And if people do start flaming, I also know the team here will cut down pretty hard on that.

 

Anywho, thanks again for a much more posed view than most offer

Edited August 8, 2013 by Memnoch

[KyleGM]

What level were you before you hid those 600 trophies?  I'm curious

 

I was level 34, to be honest I never really pay attention to my level, or the trophy rarities. I just enjoy collecting trophies and finishing a game to the best of my ability, so being able to hide old games that I played before collecting trophies is a great feature. I'm not ashamed of the hidden games, I just like looking at a neat profile, it allows me to see the trophies I actually have to get rather than ones that will never be achieved.

[JoeTootell]

i love the update

[drummerklg]

I think some people are just mad that on PSN it doesn't make you lose your level when you hide a game, but Sly did a great job on putting it so that it does on this site, so I don't see why people are still calling people not "legitimate" and not true "completionists", you're giving up your level, to hide games that you played and never plan on playing again because they are awful, there should be nothing wrong with that in my opinion.. 

Edited August 8, 2013 by drummerklg

[Maisy]

I hid some games. It's not like I'm hiding things to make it look like I'm not completing games or cheating or anything. 0% games happen in my house on the PS3 when someone starts a game on my profile wrongly. That has happened a few times. Now I can hide that. Sometimes there's a game I tried, but didn't like, got no trophies or just 1 or 2 trophies.

 

I only hide those games. Not games I really play or want to play again ever. Only the games that I won't, never would have, or will not ever play. I have plenty of partially finished games sitting in my list all the time. I don't hide those. I'm only hiding one game that has 1 trophy, all others are 0%. The trophy I'm hiding is Dragon Age. I'd be happy to delete it.  At least I can hide it now. 

[daftprophet]

25/25 games at level 13 is more impressive to me than 25/125 games at level 26.

 

Really?  I don't necessarily see 100% as more impressive at all.  IMO neither of the two gamers you've just described is better or more impressive than the other.  

 

I think that it's cool for whoever to hide their trophies if they want, but what's the point other than "improve your raish"  The only person that would/should care at the end of the day is you and you alone.

[drummerklg]

I hid some games. It's not like I'm hiding things to make it look like I'm not completing games or cheating or anything. 0% games happen in my house on the PS3 when someone starts a game on my profile wrongly. That has happened a few times. Now I can hide that. Sometimes there's a game I tried, but didn't like, got no trophies or just 1 or 2 trophies.

 

I only hide those games. Not games I really play or want to play again ever. Only the games that I won't, never would have, or will not ever play. I have plenty of partially finished games sitting in my list all the time. I don't hide those. I'm only hiding one game that has 1 trophy, all others are 0%. The trophy I'm hiding is Dragon Age. I'd be happy to delete it.  At least I can hide it now. 

There is nothing wrong with that, why keep a game you hate and never plan on playing again on your list?  It just makes it look messy and cluttered, I would much rather look at is, "I remember that game, I got to get back to it, it was great"  Not,"ugh, that game is awful, I don't want to look at it everytime I go through my list"  Unfortunately, some people will see you as a cheater now =/, don't worry about them though, I'm glad your doing what makes you happy

Really?  I don't necessarily see 100% as more impressive at all.  IMO neither of the two gamers you've just described is better or more impressive than the other.  

 

I think that it's cool for whoever to hide their trophies if they want, but what's the point other than "improve your raish"  The only person that would/should care at the end of the day is you and you alone.

Well said Daft, I mean, anyone could start a new account right now, get 25/25 games at 100%, and that's it, go around bragging to people who have 50+ platinums that they are better because they complete all their games, it's childish, that they try to make themselves superior to those who hide trophies, not all completionists do, but it's a shame for those who do it.

[Toxi]

Anyone who chooses to use this feature obviously should not be looked down upon, its your profile to do whatever you want with.

However, hiding every single game that is 'incomplete' is a bit much in my opinion, i'd say that was taking the fun out of it a bit. No longer being able to grasp what this or that player was able to achieve is ashame. I'll personally never use it, even though WWE '13 will always hold me back from 100%

[drummerklg]

Anyone who chooses to use this feature obviously should not be looked down upon, its your profile to do whatever you want with.

However, hiding every single game that is 'incomplete' is a bit much in my opinion, i'd say that was taking the fun out of it a bit. No longer being able to grasp what this or that player was able to achieve is ashame. I'll personally never use it, even though WWE '13 will always hold me back from 100%

I'm glad you think that way I hear you on that WWE 13 man, but since I have 2 ps3's, I just get another copy and self boost it, will take about 20 hours, just need the motivation to get started again, it sucks you can't get 100% completion because of that game though =/

[Toxi]

I'm glad you think that way I hear you on that WWE 13 man, but since I have 2 ps3's, I just get another copy and self boost it, will take about 20 hours, just need the motivation to get started again, it sucks you can't get 100% completion because of that game though =/

Anyone who puts in the time to get that plat fully deserves it. I haven't given up completely, but with all the shitty luck people have had with rank resets I'm not too sure I can be bothered. Maybe if they give us some notice about the servers closing it will inspire me to try Good luck though, hope you get it done!

[Eternal21]

First thing is, I guess I consider myself a "completionist" when it comes to trophy hunting. So it's important to understand that I and others like me put an arguably disproportionate value on completion ratio. So basically I don't really see your trophy level being lowered as any actual kind of penalty since I don't care what you're level is. 25/25 games at level 13 is more impressive to me than 25/125 games at level 26. On some level you must feel the same way otherwise I'm not sure why you would bother to hide all those trophies.

 

This!  Couldn't have said it better.  I personally couldn't care less about level.  All it shows is that you have lots of free time to play many games.  The first thing I look at, when checking someone's profile is their completion rate.  Also, just as important is how rare are the person's trophies (meaning they challenge themselves instead of going Hannah Montanna route).  If both of those are high, the person gets my respect.  This new update screwed up the completion part.  Now when I see 100% on someone's profile, I make sure they don't have the 'i' icon next to their name first.  I'm not at 100% yet, but will get there in a few months (got toughest games out of the way first).  I could just hide my uncompleted games, but that would not only be cheating myself, but also other members.  I have completed games I loved (RDR) and hated (Warhawk).  Games that were easy (GoW3), and games that were extremely challenging (Sky Fighter).  At the end of the day, it's the OCD in us that drives us to the true completion.

[lporiginalg]

Really?  I don't necessarily see 100% as more impressive at all.  IMO neither of the two gamers you've just described is better or more impressive than the other. 

 

Well I did say the weight I put on completion is arguably disproportionate. It's jus thow I look at things. But like Eternal21 mentioned I am also looking for rare/hard trophies when I check someone's profile.

 

Well said Daft, I mean, anyone could start a new account right now, get 25/25 games at 100%, and that's it, go around bragging to people who have 50+ platinums that they are better because they complete all their games, it's childish, that they try to make themselves superior to those who hide trophies, not all completionists do, but it's a shame for those who do it.

 

Well obviously I can't actually speak for all completionists, but I tried to make it pretty clear that I don't look down on people who have lower ratios and certainly wouldn't brag to them about my ratio unless it somehow came up in a friendly teasing kind of way. I keep seeing this idea being thrown around that people are going to be flamed, shunned, treated as inferiors if they use this feature etc. Seems pretty insecure to me. I might be blunt enough to say in a thread like this, meant to discuss the topic, that I think it's a mark of shame (actually reading KyleGM's comment right after made me realize I'm probably being overly judgmental but that's not the point) point is I would never go around harrassing people who do it and I doubt anyone on this site would.

 

The point us people who have earned high ratios prior to this update, or aspire to do so, is that we put in a lot of hard work to get that ratio. People keep making the argument that a friend tried a game or, I didn't like that game why should I not hide it, or I played those games before I cared...

 

Last summer I lived with a roomate for two months who owned a lot of games and at that time I never cared about completion so I dived into a bunch just to grab some fast trophies. Some of these games I enjoyed (Mirror's Edge, Bioshock, AC: but some where kind of shit IMO (RE5, UFC2010) Later when I started to dream about seeing every game on my profile complete I began hunting down those games. Finding them on craigslist and such. Then I finished the games. So yes, that's what I consider the approach that a true/legit (whatever word you wanna use) completionist would take.

 

If you are telling me that you care about your completion ratio then go out and find those games of yesteryear and make them your bitch. Otherwise it seems to me you care about the idea but not the principle behind it.

Edited August 8, 2013 by lporiginalg

[daftprophet]

Well I did say the weight I put on completion is arguably disproportionate. It's jus thow I look at things. But like Eternal21 mentioned I am also looking for rare/hard trophies when I check someone's profile.

 

 

Well obviously I can't actually speak for all completionists, but I tried to make it pretty clear that I don't look down on people who have lower ratios and certainly wouldn't brag to them about my ratio unless it somehow came up in a friendly teasing kind of way. I keep seeing this idea being thrown around that people are going to be flamed, shunned, treated as inferiors if they use this feature etc. Seems pretty insecure to me. I might be blunt enough to say in a thread like this, meant to discuss the topic, that I think it's a mark of shame (actually reading KyleGM's comment right after made me realize I'm probably being overly judgmental but that's not the point) point is I would never go around harrassing people who do it and I doubt anyone on this site would.

 

The point us people who have earned high ratios prior to this update, or aspire to do so, is that we put in a lot of hard work to get that ratio. People keep making the argument that a friend tried a game or, I didn't like that game why should I not hide it, or I played those games before I cared...

 

Last summer I lived with a roomate for two months who owned a lot of games and at that time I never cared about completion so I dived into a bunch just to grab some fast trophies. Some of these games I enjoyed (Mirror's Edge, Bioshock, AC: but some where kind of shit IMO (RE5, UFC2010) Later when I started to dream about seeing every game on my profile complete I began hunting down those games. Finding them on craigslist and such. Then I finished the games. So yes, that's what I consider the approach that a true/legit (whatever word you wanna use) completionist would take.

 

If you are telling me that you care about your completion ratio then go out and find those games of yesteryear and make them your bitch. Otherwise it seems to me you care about the idea but not the principle behind it.

 

For sure.  I guess I just don't see the point and will most likely not use it, but what does worry me are if the hackers can use it as a bypass.

[Rowdi]

Really?  I don't necessarily see 100% as more impressive at all.  IMO neither of the two gamers you've just described is better or more impressive than the other.  

 

I think that it's cool for whoever to hide their trophies if they want, but what's the point other than "improve your raish"  The only person that would/should care at the end of the day is you and you alone.

It's not a matter of a gamer being better or worse. It's a matter of a particular gamer having the drive to play all their games to 100% completion or at least that's what impresses me. I'm not talking about 25 whore plats/100% either. It's the guys willing to take on 100% in Souls, WKC, UC3 and the like that make me want to strive to step up my game.

I've spent a lot of time and money playing my games to the point where my completion is where I want it and I intend to continue the way I've been playing, regardless of how or what this or any other community thinks of it. This was my choice and how I wanted to spend my money and leisure time. If other people are embarrassed of games they've played or the completion percentage of those games and want to hide them to boost their completion percentage then by all means...hide away. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it because ultimately it's your profile. However, the people that want to boost their completion percentage by hiding their games instead of putting a little time and effort into completing them need to realize how unfair it is to the people that did and thus the need for Sly to make the "scarlet letter" to point out if a profile has hidden games.

[daftprophet]

It's not a matter of a gamer being better or worse. It's a matter of a particular gamer having the drive to play all their games to 100% completion or at least that's what impresses me. I'm not talking about 25 whore plats/100% either. It's the guys willing to take on 100% in Souls, WKC, UC3 and the like that make me want to strive to step up my game.

I've spent a lot of time and money playing my games to the point where my completion is where I want it and I intend to continue the way I've been playing, regardless of how or what this or any other community thinks of it. This was my choice and how I wanted to spend my money and leisure time. If other people are embarrassed of games they've played or the completion percentage of those games and want to hide them to boost their completion percentage then by all means...hide away. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it because ultimately it's your profile. However, the people that want to boost their completion percentage by hiding their games instead of putting a little time and effort into completing them need to realize how unfair it is to the people that did and thus the need for Sly to make the "scarlet letter" to point out if a profile has hidden games.

[Brawler]

Truthfully I don't mind it so long as people don't boast of their completion after doing it. Especially considering there is no removal for games with no trophies unlocked on your profile on the PSN. Though you made a very good point in saying this will help promote people "Trying games" if they can simply hide them afterwards.

[ElfenSky]

Ok, so after the general uproar, the nervousness and sweat inducing fear that ensued, here are general thoughts on how this could actually be a good thing.

 

I try out many games, but I have a vita, so I cannot create a secondary account to test, so hiding trophies indefinitely (ie if I didn't like the game) can pretty much only be a good thing. Should I have to endure going through a stupidly boring game because I want perfect completion on what I 'show' to others ? The answer to that should be no.

 

Implementing this to PS3 will only help me try out new things, so again not a bad thing.

 

These are things that in a perfect world should've been implemented from the start by Sony, not now.

 

The last thing that would be good is to delete completely any game I wish from my trophy list, many games are either now unplattable or even worse so bad that you need a group of people with multple playstations to actually finish the games off...

 

This isn't a thread for 'OMG people will have better completion rates then they deserve', there are already other threads for that and they are already being used perfectly.

 

However please don't hesitate to give your opinions and views on how this can be a good implementation and how you'd use it

 

 

I agree, I have a 90% completion average which I worked my ass off to get. I now have a 93.7% completion rate after hiding games that I will never fully complete, and the only reason they are on my list to begin with is because they are all games that I and others played on my account before I started trophy hunting. I would never let a game I know I'm not going to complete, or work at on my account nowadays because I actively am trying to earn trophies so it's nice to be able to hide old mistakes. Would I rather they where just deleted instead? Definitely, but until (if ever) Sony implement that, I can be content with my profile knowing it's a more true representation of my trophy hunting escapades. People don't seem to realise that this is a "Privacy" setting not a "hide trophies you don't like" setting. I think if we will ever be able to delete trophies it will be with the PS4 as it seems to be going the social route that the Vita kicked off.

 

Also, all I have ever seen on trophy websites is people complaining about not being able to delete or get rid of trophies, and now that we sort of can I see nothing but people complaining that they should never have done this! I can kind of understand the people that are in completionist leaderboards being nervous that it will skew their results, but in all honesty that is entirely selfish. Why should people be punished or looked down upon for hiding old games they played before they knew about trophy hunting, games they didn't like, people playing on their account or any other variety of reasons? Although I don't see the point in cheating trophies, if a cheater did mess around with one game, why should they be tainted forever if they are willing to get rid of it? 

 

Nice to see some other positive people talking about this, some of the crying I have seen over this is embarrassing. Anyway, I think Sly handled this amazingly, updated super quick and helped out people that run leaderboards. It's why I love this site!

 

Completely agree with your posts... My personal argument will be the ZEN Pinball 1 game on my trophy list... It's uber hard, and while I would probably not mind trying to get the 100%... I CAN'T!!! Fucking ZEN removed the DLCs from the store for some seriously fucked up reason.. (something about improving experience for ZENP2, whatever)...

 

My other games - while some are very hard or time consuming I'll leave them - atleast they're plattable.. Getting them will make me feel better about myself, giving me something to be proud of...

 

Besides, while I'm also (slowly) working towards a 100% completion, I care about this percentage a lot less then the games I platinumed or the amount of said games...

I mean, for example, I would think having a, umm, 50% completion with platinumed gams like BFBC&Wip3OutHD would be a lot more cool then having a 100% completiong with kiddie-games like CARS...

Now, before you go all crazy on me I do want to say that even though it would be cooler, I still care for a clean and high-completion trophy list.

 

Edited August 9, 2013 by ElfenSky