Am I the only one

[Beast_Mode255]

*SPOILERS FOR THE LAST OF US PART 2*

 

Am I the only one who thought that when Ellie goes back to the farm at the very end of the game after dealing with Abby, and finding the house empty except for her stuff in that one room, that it was implying that the happy lifestyle she had at the farm with JJ and Dina was, idk, like all in her head or something, and that Tommy coming back to tell her about Abby's location and that she promised to get her, that was just her conscious eating away at her that Abby had gotten away....and that maybe Tommy and Dina actually died and JJ was never actually born. Idk, I just haven't seen anyone else think this way. And I mean Tommy did get shot in the fuckin head lol and Dina had an arrow shot through her, which I know both are possible to survive, especially since, ya know, it's a video game and all lmao but just the way she comes back to the house, it's not only emptied out but it's really run down and dirty lookin, but when you first take control of Ellie in the farm with Dina and JJ it looks super nice and clean. Obviously I know there is no right or wrong answer, since the game never clarifies it, but I just thought that because I mean that was THERE house. Why would they leave it? It makes zero sense. I feel like it was just a place Ellie found that was away from everything and everyone and she was imagining a life with Dina and the new baby. But like I said it's just speculation since there's no proof that I'm right or wrong. And I know I'm gonna get replies saying that I'm 100% wrong and all that, but idk I still just thought I'd bring it up and see what other people thought. 

[iGGTheEnd]

47 minutes ago, Beast_Mode255 said:

*SPOILERS FOR THE LAST OF US PART 2*

 

Am I the only one who thought that when Ellie goes back to the farm at the very end of the game after dealing with Abby, and finding the house empty except for her stuff in that one room, that it was implying that the happy lifestyle she had at the farm with JJ and Dina was, idk, like all in her head or something, and that Tommy coming back to tell her about Abby's location and that she promised to get her, that was just her conscious eating away at her that Abby had gotten away....and that maybe Tommy and Dina actually died and JJ was never actually born. Idk, I just haven't seen anyone else think this way. And I mean Tommy did get shot in the fuckin head lol and Dina had an arrow shot through her, which I know both are possible to survive, especially since, ya know, it's a video game and all lmao but just the way she comes back to the house, it's not only emptied out but it's really run down and dirty lookin, but when you first take control of Ellie in the farm with Dina and JJ it looks super nice and clean. Obviously I know there is no right or wrong answer, since the game never clarifies it, but I just thought that because I mean that was THERE house. Why would they leave it? It makes zero sense. I feel like it was just a place Ellie found that was away from everything and everyone and she was imagining a life with Dina and the new baby. But like I said it's just speculation since there's no proof that I'm right or wrong. And I know I'm gonna get replies saying that I'm 100% wrong and all that, but idk I still just thought I'd bring it up and see what other people thought. 

I actually really like this theory,  I am not sure if I believe it and you may be over thinking it but it does give the story a lot more depth if you think of it this way.

[Platinum_Vice]

4 hours ago, Beast_Mode255 said:

*SPOILERS FOR THE LAST OF US PART 2*

 

Am I the only one who thought that when Ellie goes back to the farm at the very end of the game after dealing with Abby, and finding the house empty except for her stuff in that one room, that it was implying that the happy lifestyle she had at the farm with JJ and Dina was, idk, like all in her head or something, and that Tommy coming back to tell her about Abby's location and that she promised to get her, that was just her conscious eating away at her that Abby had gotten away....and that maybe Tommy and Dina actually died and JJ was never actually born. Idk, I just haven't seen anyone else think this way. And I mean Tommy did get shot in the fuckin head lol and Dina had an arrow shot through her, which I know both are possible to survive, especially since, ya know, it's a video game and all lmao but just the way she comes back to the house, it's not only emptied out but it's really run down and dirty lookin, but when you first take control of Ellie in the farm with Dina and JJ it looks super nice and clean. Obviously I know there is no right or wrong answer, since the game never clarifies it, but I just thought that because I mean that was THERE house. Why would they leave it? It makes zero sense. I feel like it was just a place Ellie found that was away from everything and everyone and she was imagining a life with Dina and the new baby. But like I said it's just speculation since there's no proof that I'm right or wrong. And I know I'm gonna get replies saying that I'm 100% wrong and all that, but idk I still just thought I'd bring it up and see what other people thought. 

 

I don't agree with the theory but I'll still add to it for you:

 

The first reveal trailer showed a scene that didn't exist: Ellie playing guitar about going after revenge and Joel walking in and telling her that he'd help.

[willmill97]

I swear every piece of fiction has a theory tied to ‘what if it was all in their head’ and most of the time I don’t buy it, nonetheless it COULD work. 

[Beast_Mode255]

Well also, I forgot to mention, that the way Tommy acted towards Ellie at the end about not going after Abby REALLY did not seem like him at all. 

[Lovenewton]

If it wasn’t for Tommy she would have never found Abby so on top of the farm life, the whole Santa Barbara section was a dream? Ellie didn’t save Abby from the rattlers (or never even found 2425 constance)? Then why does the main menu screen change to Catalina Island when you finish the game? That’s the location where Abby is told to go by the fireflies on the radio right before she is kidnapped. The implied thing is that her and Lev reached it after Ellie let them go that’s why the screen changes to show a Catalina landmark.

 

Also when Dina first discusses the idea of « fixing up a farm with outside of Jackson », Ellie tells her « sounds lonely » and Dina replies « only if you’re doing it alone » I don’t think it’s hard to see why Dina would abandon the farm project when she suddenly no longer has a partner to do it with but still a baby to take care of. Going back to Jackson and taking care of JJ makes more sense than just hanging on to a farm, originally meant to be where you live with your loved one, out there on your own.

 

Btw Tommy didnt get shot in the head the bullet grazed his eye, you can definitely survive that kind of injury some people have got shot through the head and survived.

2 hours ago, Beast_Mode255 said:

Well also, I forgot to mention, that the way Tommy acted towards Ellie at the end about not going after Abby REALLY did not seem like him at all. 

 

By not like him you mean not perfect? He was crippled, had lost everything (including his relationship) and spent months holding onto the one thing that he had. The promise that Ellie made him that she would make Abby pay. And then he goes to Ellie after all that and she just reneges on her promise. I don’t see how it would be weird for him to show weakness and get mad especially since he’s not aware (again perspective, it’s the point of the game) of how badly Ellie has been struggling. He only knows (or thinks he knows) she lives a comfortable happy ending on a remote farm with her soulmate.

 

He already showed weakness at the start of the game when he decides to stupidly go avenge Joel alone without telling Maria. 

[VaDiMkA]

that... sounds... kinda plausible. 

 

i always thought it unlikely that Ellie made it back to Jackson with a injured Dina and a half-dead Tommy. One of them, maybe, but both? They would have to stay in the city for weeks till they can move, while the war between the wolfs and those scars goes on (presumably). And Ellie is the only one fit enough to scavenge and fight. 

18 minutes ago, Lovenewton said:

If it wasn’t for Tommy she would have never found Abby so on top of the farm life...

could be she heard it herself, since its implied they (or in that case only Ellie) had contact with Jackson, it could be the same like with Abby. someone heard a rumor, and it was true..

 

in the end, its a theory, and not a bad one.

The one thing that does not add up is the ending, where Ellie comes back. If it was only her house, most of her stuff would still be lying around, and not be packed in a single upstairs room.

no way she cleaned out the whole house before going on her second revenge tour. Either she comes back, so all that would just be a hassle, or she dies, than why bother, you know?^^

[WeeFreya]

Thats a good idea. First I never played it but watched both games on YT and really got immersed. That farm part out of everything felt the most... off. Looked to perfect and comfy for TLoU. I thought it was just a bad direction, trying waayy too hard to show "look happy family" but with your theory it would make perfect sense why its like that.

[czDante92]

> it's not only emptied out but it's really run down and dirty lookin, but when you first take control of Ellie in the farm with Dina and JJ it looks super nice and clean

It wasn't run down, just emptied and not cleaned for 2 months.

> Why would they leave it? It makes zero sense.

It would make zero sense to stay alone with a baby in the middle of nowhere while you have friends and family in Jackson. Also, Dina gave Ellie pretty much an ultimatum, even though she didn't say it loud - if you'll go it's over.

> Well also, I forgot to mention, that the way Tommy acted towards Ellie at the end about not going after Abby REALLY did not seem like him at all. 

It's true that Tommy was portrayed as nicer, less intimidating version of Joel, but the dude went on killing spree, seen Jesse get killed and then got crippled by his brother's killer while she got away. He knew Joel since he was born (well, duh) and was unable to help him when he was getting beaten to death. His wife left him because he was obsessed with revenge and the only person who would want it just as much, Ellie, suddenly doesn't care. He got every right to blow up.

 

While the "it was in their head all along" trope would be really cheap, it could work I guess, but I would credit this and

1 hour ago, WeeFreya said:

That farm part out of everything felt the most... off. Looked to perfect and comfy for TLoU. I thought it was just a bad direction, trying waayy too hard to show "look happy family"

to bad writing, since they obviously changed the script halfway during development. My 2 cents would be Dina getting originally killed for some reason, but (and I'm really not one of those HURR DURR LGBT AGENDA) Druckmann really wanted the lesbian relationship portrayed in game. If nothing else, Joel should have lived or got killed much later in game, because in first (second?) trailer he told Ellie he would help her with revenge and was seen in the cutscene in suburbs grabbing Ellie from behind, which was changed to Jesse grabbing her in the game.

Now that I think of it, there were theories about the trailer that Joel is dead and only in her head, so we went full circle on this one

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by czDante92
typing mistake

[flashpool23]

3 hours ago, Beast_Mode255 said:

Well also, I forgot to mention, that the way Tommy acted towards Ellie at the end about not going after Abby REALLY did not seem like him at all. 

It's been studied that brain damage can drastically change a person's personality, even if they were nothing like that before.

 

Of course, this is assuming it was a headshot that did damage (which it looked like).

[Lovenewton]

6 hours ago, WeeFreya said:

Thats a good idea. First I never played it but watched both games on YT and really got immersed. That farm part out of everything felt the most... off. Looked to perfect and comfy for TLoU. I thought it was just a bad direction, trying waayy too hard to show "look happy family" but with your theory it would make perfect sense why its like that.

 

I don’t understand why so many people view the farm as a happy situation for Ellie. She is obviously completely crippled by PTSD and guilt. The first thing you see is her being completely absorbed by Joel’s watch, then you see her have a PTSD nightmare flashback screaming her lungs out and finally when she leaves Dina she even tells us (and Dina) « I don’t eat, I don’t sleep ». She was suffering...

 

She didn’t throw away a happy ending as some (not you) are suggesting and I’m pretty sure the writers didn’t intend for it to appear as a happy ending which is why they even have Ellie say out loud how hard it is for her. If all the screaming and nightmares weren’t enough.

[Beast_Mode255]

9 hours ago, Lovenewton said:

If it wasn’t for Tommy she would have never found Abby so on top of the farm life, the whole Santa Barbara section was a dream? Ellie didn’t save Abby from the rattlers (or never even found 2425 constance)? Then why does the main menu screen change to Catalina Island when you finish the game? That’s the location where Abby is told to go by the fireflies on the radio right before she is kidnapped. The implied thing is that her and Lev reached it after Ellie let them go that’s why the screen changes to show a Catalina landmark.

 

Also when Dina first discusses the idea of « fixing up a farm with outside of Jackson », Ellie tells her « sounds lonely » and Dina replies « only if you’re doing it alone » I don’t think it’s hard to see why Dina would abandon the farm project when she suddenly no longer has a partner to do it with but still a baby to take care of. Going back to Jackson and taking care of JJ makes more sense than just hanging on to a farm, originally meant to be where you live with your loved one, out there on your own.

 

Btw Tommy didnt get shot in the head the bullet grazed his eye, you can definitely survive that kind of injury some people have got shot through the head and survived.

 

By not like him you mean not perfect? He was crippled, had lost everything (including his relationship) and spent months holding onto the one thing that he had. The promise that Ellie made him that she would make Abby pay. And then he goes to Ellie after all that and she just reneges on her promise. I don’t see how it would be weird for him to show weakness and get mad especially since he’s not aware (again perspective, it’s the point of the game) of how badly Ellie has been struggling. He only knows (or thinks he knows) she lives a comfortable happy ending on a remote farm with her soulmate.

 

He already showed weakness at the start of the game when he decides to stupidly go avenge Joel alone without telling Maria. 

I didnt say the Santa Barbara was a dream, or any of it was a dream for that matter. I said just the part where she is on the farm, and that's it. And I said that " perfect life" she was living with Dina was just her, not even imagining it but rather thinking that's how things could and should have been. Everything else in the entire game really happened. And hell maybe even the stuff on the farm really happened, like i said there is no proof that I'm right or wrong, because they don't show enough and they dont make it clear enough. 

8 hours ago, WeeFreya said:

Thats a good idea. First I never played it but watched both games on YT and really got immersed. That farm part out of everything felt the most... off. Looked to perfect and comfy for TLoU. I thought it was just a bad direction, trying waayy too hard to show "look happy family" but with your theory it would make perfect sense why its like that.

Right!?

And just to make this clear, I didnt beat the game and then look back on it and start looking for this theory....theory....this was actually my very first thought the second Ellie walked into the farm and it was empty. I thought " damn so Tommy and Dina actually died, huh? Holy shit!" Etc etc

8 hours ago, flashpool23 said:

It's been studied that brain damage can drastically change a person's personality, even if they were nothing like that before.

 

Of course, this is assuming it was a headshot that did damage (which it looked like).

Right I know, bur this is a game, a story, and I feel like if that was the case then there would have been a throw away line between Dina and Ellie mentioning something like "You can't take it personally, you know what that gunshot did to Tommy, that's not really him talking" or something like that idk. Anyways like I said from the very beginning this is what I thought was the case the first time I played it and I'm kot saying I'm right by any means, I was just kinda surprised that no one else had thought the same thing. 

[Lovenewton]

18 minutes ago, Beast_Mode255 said:

I didnt say the Santa Barbara was a dream, or any of it was a dream for that matter. I said just the part where she is on the farm, and that's it. And I said that " perfect life" she was living with Dina was just her, not even imagining it but rather thinking that's how things could and should have been. Everything else in the entire game really happened. And hell maybe even the stuff on the farm really happened, like i said there is no proof that I'm right or wrong, because they don't show enough and they dont make it clear enough. 

 

I don’t even know what to say to this. It mostly just hurts my brain, I’m not even sure I understand what you’re saying. Are you saying the PTSD filled nightmare that was what we saw on the farm (where she ends up abandonning Dina) is her vision of how it should have been?

 

Because that makes no sense to me. Why picture such a tragic situation because unlike what you keep saying it wasn’t a « perfect life » at all. Or anything close to it, it was the opposite and therefore it makes absolutely no sense to picture it as a regret of what « could and should have been ». Ellie LITERALLY says she’s not eating OR sleeping in that life. It’s a nightmare not a dream...

 

Also if Tommy died how would she have found Abby?

And why would she write in her journal « maybe Tommy was wrong » that Abby was in Santa Barbara?

Is the journal also just her imagination?

Or is she actually completely crazy and writes stuff in her journal about doubting conversations she never actually had?

Did she find out by herself Abby’s location but somehow still wrote in her journal that she doubted Tommy’s findings?

Why is there still D + E + JJ written on the tree in front of the house when she comes back to Jackson? 

 

You probably just missed the writing on the Tree and what she wrote in her Journal. But if you hadn’t you’d know the only way your theory works is if Ellie is completely crazy at that point. It’s just way too far fetched.

[LoveInHell]

Wow, nice thinking.

[Platinum_Vice]

13 hours ago, flashpool23 said:

It's been studied that brain damage can drastically change a person's personality

 

So can grief.

 

 

 

IMHO, we knew f-all about who any of these characters really are. We've not spent much actual time with her at all. Who are we to say that it's not like him to act that way?

[flashpool23]

6 hours ago, GonzoWARgasm said:

 

So can grief.

 

 

 

IMHO, we knew f-all about who any of these characters really are. We've not spent much actual time with her at all. Who are we to say that it's not like him to act that way?

Yeah I'm still going with the Tommy always had it in him since we never really saw his past with Joel. His wife was probably the reason he stayed calm and didn't show it but him losing his brother and then losing (some) use of his vision/mobility probably set him off.

[Beast_Mode255]

12 hours ago, Lovenewton said:

 

I don’t even know what to say to this. It mostly just hurts my brain, I’m not even sure I understand what you’re saying. Are you saying the PTSD filled nightmare that was what we saw on the farm (where she ends up abandonning Dina) is her vision of how it should have been?

 

Because that makes no sense to me. Why picture such a tragic situation because unlike what you keep saying it wasn’t a « perfect life » at all. Or anything close to it, it was the opposite and therefore it makes absolutely no sense to picture it as a regret of what « could and should have been ». Ellie LITERALLY says she’s not eating OR sleeping in that life. It’s a nightmare not a dream...

 

Also if Tommy died how would she have found Abby?

And why would she write in her journal « maybe Tommy was wrong » that Abby was in Santa Barbara?

Is the journal also just her imagination?

Or is she actually completely crazy and writes stuff in her journal about doubting conversations she never actually had?

Did she find out by herself Abby’s location but somehow still wrote in her journal that she doubted Tommy’s findings?

Why is there still D + E + JJ written on the tree in front of the house when she comes back to Jackson? 

 

You probably just missed the writing on the Tree and what she wrote in her Journal. But if you hadn’t you’d know the only way your theory works is if Ellie is completely crazy at that point. It’s just way too far fetched.

When you first control Ellie at the farm and you get to hold the baby and flirt with Dina, and they're all happy and love each other, that doesn't seem like a perfect life to you? ESPECIALLY in the world they live in. Look, it was just a theory anyways, I don't really know how to make it more clear about what I was trying to say. I mean Ellie could have put D + E + JJ on the tree even if Dina died. JJ(which I'm assuming stands for Joel Jr., idk tho) could have just been the name she WANTED to give Dina's child, and her drawing or whatever of the baby in the upstairs room could've just been how she pictured her child would've looked if he had been born. Idk really what else I can say to help you understand what I'm trying to say, I definitely wasn't implying Ellie is crazy, just depressed and feeling guilty that she never got to kill Abby and avenge Joel and everyone else. I've already said it but ill say it again, there's no proof that I'm right, but definitely none that I'm wrong also. It's definitely plausible, but unless we get something from Naughty Dog themselves let's just say that whatever you believe is right. So if you think they're alive and well, then they are. If you think they actually died then they did. Lol don't take it too seriously

[PhyrxianLibrarin]

Meh, it's possible, but that's a pretty big departure from how they presented the rest of the story. I think it's a lot simpler:

 

- Dina and Ellie move to the farm, just like they discussed in Seattle.

- Ellie still has flashbacks and PTSD and unresolved issues, and thinks killing Abby will help her resolve those issues.

- Dina gives an ultimatum; if Ellie leaves again, there's no promise Dina and JJ will wait for her (Jessie Jr! Why would Dina name her son after Joel?)

- Ellie leaves anyways.

- Dina probably moves back to Jackson because she doesn't want to live in the farm with JJ by herself; the artifacts you find make it clear she still has family in Jackson who want her to move home.

- By the time Ellie returns from California, the house has been abandoned for months.

 

It's not surprising at all that, after everything Ellie went through, part of her feels like she doesn't deserve to have a happy life. That's why it's so poignant when she realizes that a happy life is the only thing Joel ever wanted for her, and that killing Abby won't "fix" her, which is why she lets her live.

 

Edit: As for Tommy's change in attitude, that's not surprising either. He lost his brother, his wife, his eye, and he literally used to be an adventurer until he took an arrow to the knee. He can't take his own revenge, and now the person who was going to take revenge for him has a farm and a family and refuses to. Of course he's pissed!

Edited August 19, 2020 by PhyrxianLibrarin