EDGES Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, DaivRules said: Each and every thing appearing in credits for every piece of entertainment, from TV shows, Movies, to Games, is negotiated and part of the overall contract for that piece of work. Far from mere courtesy. 100% wrong Some Metroid Dread Developers Weren't Included in the Game's Credits Quote "While playing the game, I've recognized quite a few assets and environments I worked on... so my work is there," Mejias wrote on LinkedIn. "Then, I would like to ask MercurySteam: Why do I not appear on the game's credits? Is it some kind of mistake?" Since the news came to light, many have pointed out that this practice is unfortunately common in the video game industry. Developers are free to include or remove any staffers they choose in the game's credits, and many have similar policies in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DrBloodmoney Posted March 16, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, DaivRules said: Each and every thing appearing in credits for every piece of entertainment, from TV shows, Movies, to Games, is negotiated and part of the overall contract for that piece of work. Far from mere courtesy. 54 minutes ago, DaivRules said: If they're in the credits, they're getting paid. How much do you reckon this recipe for Nobby Buns got paid for the movie Hot Shots? Edited March 16, 2022 by DrBloodmoney 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkrobot_pb Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said: How much do you reckon this recipe for Nobby Buns got paid for the movie Hot Shots? Actually Nobby Buns are known for these shady practices. There is supposedly a recipe on its way to outer space on a recording inside a Voyager spacecraft. As you can see the baketime is missing, but that is because heating equipment manufactuers refused to pay the additional egg timer fee. Edited March 16, 2022 by pinkrobot_pb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaivRules Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 35 minutes ago, THE ONE WHO KNOCKS said: 100% wrong Some Metroid Dread Developers Weren't Included in the Game's Credits That doesn't prove what I said wrong. If it's in a contract to be in there, they'll be included. If it's not in a contract to explicitly be included, it can be excluded. Those developer staff either have no contract with their employers, the developer company, to be included in the credits, and thus the pay associated with being listed in the credits, or they have a breach of contract, and can sue their employer for it. I'm leaning toward they didn't have it in their contract to be listed in the credits since it seems like they just assumed they would be in there. Feel free to back up your original claim "FromSoftware only received a one-time payment from Sony to work on Bloodborne and receives no further income from Sony, including game sales." The burden of proof is on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 lol. How is it every single topic eventually turns into various people getting into an argument. Getting your name in the credits is not any evidence of getting paid, especially since people who get paid might not be featured in the credits either. We have no way of knowing exactly what contract any devs or publishers or getting from each other so it's kind of pointless trying to speculate. Hopefully credit is being given where credit is due, as is people getting paid for their work, of course it's quite likely there are injustices somewhere. I don't think there is any game dev in Japan that doesn't do crunch but that's it's unfortunately an issue that rife in most of Japanese society. I guess one would could probably say, at least I'm overworking in a game dev rather than some shitty office or banking job. I think Manga artists are the worst paid, some can only just afford to eat and have to live in share houses since often they can't afford the rent. PS Nobby Buns is awesome, can't believe I never heard of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraezr Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 1 hour ago, willmill97 said: nOoNE pLaYs sIngLE PLAYer gaMeS anYMoRE The bitter tears of shareholders, as they watch the next ten GaaS fail, will keep me eternally young. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaivRules Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 My original full quote was more specific than what you quoted: Quote I see them listed at 16:50. If they're in the credits, they're getting paid. "them" specifically referred to FromSoftware's developers in the credits of Elden Ring. Not a general claim that everyone in every set of credits receives payment. 40 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said: How much do you reckon this recipe for Nobby Buns got paid for the movie Hot Shots? I love easter eggs in credits. Not that you're doing it with malicious intent, but others are pretty quick to strawman comments and makes me even more sad how schools (and apparently parents) miss teaching logical fallacies around grade 2 and 3, when children really start using them and some people apparently never learn about them. Although maybe they know about them and use them anyway, assuming they won't get called out. It's no wonder we have such a huge misinformation problem across the world. On topic: 12 million in sales for this game is an extremely impressive feat and I can see Elden Ring reaching 60-70 million copies over the next year to 18 months. A price drop and the holiday sales on top of increasing multiplayer popularity will all provide even more upswing for the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beyondthegrave07 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 31 minutes ago, DaivRules said: Feel free to back up your original claim "FromSoftware only received a one-time payment from Sony to work on Bloodborne and receives no further income from Sony, including game sales." The burden of proof is on you. Fromsoft is definitely getting paid royalties for every single sale, there's no doubt in my mind. If not, Fromsoft needs a new CEO because that would be insanely ludicrous business-dealing. That's just not how it works. OT: I'm hoping to add to the sales numbers before the end of the year. My only hesitation is whether I should wait until I get a PS5 to get it and make it my first PS5 game or get it on PS4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDGES Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, DaivRules said: That doesn't prove what I said wrong. If it's in a contract to be in there, they'll be included. If it's not in a contract to explicitly be included, it can be excluded. Those developer staff either have no contract with their employers, the developer company, to be included in the credits, and thus the pay associated with being listed in the credits, or they have a breach of contract, and can sue their employer for it. I'm leaning toward they didn't have it in their contract to be listed in the credits since it seems like they just assumed they would be in there. Feel free to back up your original claim "FromSoftware only received a one-time payment from Sony to work on Bloodborne and receives no further income from Sony, including game sales." The burden of proof is on you. you are wrong, credits are not based on any contracts in video games and are not proof of who is getting paid, Sony owns Bloodborne, period, there's nothing else to be said after that fact, same with Demon's Edited March 16, 2022 by THE ONE WHO KNOCKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 23 minutes ago, Beyondthegrave07 said: Fromsoft is definitely getting paid royalties for every single sale, there's no doubt in my mind. If not, Fromsoft needs a new CEO because that would be insanely ludicrous business-dealing. That's just not how it works. OT: I'm hoping to add to the sales numbers before the end of the year. My only hesitation is whether I should wait until I get a PS5 to get it and make it my first PS5 game or get it on PS4. Dude! Buy it on PS4 digital, right now! Doing so means you also get PS5 version free. So you can still play it again later when you get PS5. PS4 and PS5 are no different, other than 30fps on PS4 and slightly lower resolution. Aside from 20-30 second loading times sometimes, arguably the PS4 version is the more reliable since the game isn't likely to crash and wipe your save data. I think a lot of people are gonna be playing this game twice and not autopop because of how good the game is. i'm still impressed at the 12 million sales, as let's remember those are Day 1 full price sales as well. Imagine the sales figures when sales kick in (I doubt they are gonna drop the price anytime soon, not for a loooong time while the game is still hot, so to speak) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaivRules Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 58 minutes ago, THE ONE WHO KNOCKS said: you are wrong, credits are not based on any contracts in video games and are not proof of who is getting paid, Sony owns Bloodborne, period, there's nothing else to be said after that fact, same with Demon's https://odinlaw.com/am-i-required-to-credit-someone-in-my-video-game/ Quote The primary takeaway, however, is a business is not required to credit someone in a video game unless it is specifically stated in their contract. Please stop using situations where people didn't have credit rights under contract as evidence to make your unproven claim. If you really want to prove your claim directly, without misconstruing things I said, become a shareholder in the public company that owns FromSoftware (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadokawa_Corporation) and ask them as a shareholder if they received a one time payment or shareholders can expect further income from their work on Elden Ring. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselmanchild Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 Those numbers are absolutely insane, especially for what you’d expect from a From Software game which people usually think caters only to a small group of hardcore gamers. I’m thrilled to see this game having so much success and to hear people gushing about the experience. From Software has been one of my favourite developers for years and Demon’s Souls was what inspired me to start trophy hunting in the first place. I’m so happy to see the praise being heaped upon them right now, they deserve it. I’m finally picking this up next week and I can’t wait. Staying away from footage and spoilers these past few weeks has been the great struggle of my life. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConAir Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 11 hours ago, enaysoft said: Those are pretty impressive numbers, of course the game is an easy contender for best game ever. I'm currently clocked in at 230 hours on my current save and it feels like I only half through the game, if you take your time and don't use guides, this game is huuuuuge. I would definitely recommend anyone reading this who hasn't got it yet, to buy the game. https://www.ign.com/articles/elden-ring-has-already-sold-12-million-copies-worldwide Definitely impressive. February isn't usually a month of big sales. Glad that good critics from both the press and audience resulted in very good sales. I will buy it eventually. In the meantime I have a very large backlog to keep me entertained. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDGES Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, DaivRules said: https://odinlaw.com/am-i-required-to-credit-someone-in-my-video-game/ Please stop using situations where people didn't have credit rights under contract as evidence to make your unproven claim. If you really want to prove your claim directly, without misconstruing things I said, become a shareholder in the public company that owns FromSoftware (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadokawa_Corporation) and ask them as a shareholder if they received a one time payment or shareholders can expect further income from their work on Elden Ring. idk if you expected me to just take your word and not read that article, but it clearly proves me right and you wrong Quote Since the games industry is mostly non-unionized (currently), there are no requirements to even include a credits section, let alone how to manage the systems for attribution. I can make a contract to get paid $1 and just work for fun, ppl make custom contracts, that has nothing to do with the industry standard that is for credits in video games which is that there is no standard, everybody can do whatever they want, which results in credits not being an indicator of anything, until the gaming industry is unionized, I'm afraid you will always be wrong on this point Please stop using situations where people had credit rights out of contract and unrequired, as evidence to make your unproven claim. I don't need to become a Kadokawa shareholder, the company that I mentioned 5 times before you even knew about probably, because I can just go to official government trademark sites and look who owns the intelectual property for Bloodborne and or Demon's, and that is Sony EUTM file information Bloodborne as long as that trademark's owner is Sony, I'm afraid that there's nothing you could ever show that claims anybody else than Sony is making any money from anything IP "Bloodborne/Demon's" related Edited March 17, 2022 by THE ONE WHO KNOCKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicho Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Firs off: yay! That's more units shipped than Cyberpunk iirc. Concering the whole payments and credits stuff: FROM Software, as in the company, might get royalties for DS PS5 or if there is a Bloodborne remake at some point. That doesn't mean that every single person in the credits of the original game at FROM gets royalties. They usually get a salary each month while they are employed at FROM, the royalty payments - if the exist - would go to the company and not to individuals. So, for the Demon's Souls remake, there is a possibility (not a certainty unless we can see some contracts) that the company FROM Software gets royalties because it is a remake of a game they've done. (and maybe they even provided some work for the remake) But I'm pretty sure that no singular person at FROM, other than maybe Miyazaki himself, sees any royalties from the PS5 remake. Royalties usually work with a percentage point system, meaning that the company gets 100% of the royalties and then might f.ex. give one percentage point to the game's director, meaning that director has a claim on 1% of the royalties made on said game. This is how 99,9% of the contracts in the music industry work. The label gets all the royalties and the artist has x percentage points, which defines how much royalties the artist gets. There's of course much more granularity to it (song writing credits and yadda yadda) but that's out of scope for a forum post But you get the general gist of it. In the case of Elden Ring, all the money goes to NamcoBandai, as they are the publisher. How much FROM gets from those massive sales, only FROM and NB know. It is possible that they get some percentage points, but it is also possible that they got paid a fixed amount for Elden Ring (which may be super massive) and they don't see any royalties at all. It's also possible that it's 50/50 (but highly unlikely). If we don't get to see the contract between Namco and FROM, we will never know. There may be employees that have bonuses or other clauses in their contract based on the revenue a game generates, but that's usually more the norm at the executive and managing level and not true for most of the "grunt" work. Also, those are usually one-offs like "you get a bonus of 10000$ if the game sells more than 5 million copies" or something similar. Actual "code monkeys" getting percentages of the revenue generated by a game is probably super rare, if it even exists at all. So there's no reason to think that Elden Ring devs get more money if the game sells better, while the publisher certainly does. There might be bonus payments defined if several milestones are reached (quite common in gaming industry is a certain MetaCritic average score as a milestone) but the massive sales are, financially speaking, mostly a boon for the publisher, less for the devs. However, a massive sales success puts the devs in a position where they can negotiate much more interesting terms for themselves for their future games. Credits, in general, only "prove" that you worked in some capacity on a game. It's no proof for payment and usually being mentioned in the credits is in no way an indication that you have a right to any royalties. What a mention in the credits enables you to do however, is to put said game on your CV, which, if the game is a huge success, can be quite important for your future career. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggypossum Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 Quote Elden Ring Sold More Than 13.4 Million Copies in Its First 5 Weeks Bandai Namco updates the numbers Publisher Bandai Namco has just given us a refreshed figure on sales in its report for the last financial year, and FromSoftware's open world epic has now exceeded sales of 13.4 million. This new figure is accurate as of 31st March 2022, meaning it's representative of roughly five weeks of time on physical and digital shelves. The last we heard, Elden Ring had sold 12 million copies as of 14th March, so it's gone another 1.4 million between those dates. https://www.bandainamco.co.jp/files/ir/financialstatements/pdf/20220511_Presentation.pdf https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2022/05/elden-ring-sold-more-than-13-4-million-copies-in-its-first-five-weeks 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulqarmessi Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 1 minute ago, ziggypossum said: https://www.bandainamco.co.jp/files/ir/financialstatements/pdf/20220511_Presentation.pdf https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2022/05/elden-ring-sold-more-than-13-4-million-copies-in-its-first-five-weeks Amazing? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 (edited) I was surprised that Elden Ring reddit has 1.3 million subscribers. That is a huge amount. Almost surpassed by mostly things like "Nintendo" or "Minecraft" Even long standing franchises like Tekken and Street Fighter only have about 150k, Assassins Creed 450k, Call Of Duty 800k etc. Very impressive for a game that has only been out for nearly 3 months. Horizon Forbidden West has 15k and Horizon Zero Dawn only has 8500 (With about 3500 on PC port) (This has nothing to do with which game is better, so no starting a flamewar please, I'm just pointing out the numbers) Edited May 12, 2022 by enaysoft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggypossum Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 Elden Ring Has Become One of the Top 10 Best-Selling Premium Games in U.S. History https://www.ign.com/articles/elden-ring-has-become-one-of-the-top-10-best-selling-premium-games-in-us-history NPD: Elden Ring now in top 10 of all-time best selling games in dollar sales https://www.resetera.com/threads/npd-elden-ring-now-in-top-10-of-all-time-best-selling-games-in-dollar-sales.607911/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post zulqarmessi Posted July 15, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 15, 2022 1 hour ago, ziggypossum said: Elden Ring Has Become One of the Top 10 Best-Selling Premium Games in U.S. History https://www.ign.com/articles/elden-ring-has-become-one-of-the-top-10-best-selling-premium-games-in-us-history NPD: Elden Ring now in top 10 of all-time best selling games in dollar sales https://www.resetera.com/threads/npd-elden-ring-now-in-top-10-of-all-time-best-selling-games-in-dollar-sales.607911/ , very very and very well deserved, it's a gem of 2022. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ziggypossum Posted August 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2022 Elden Ring has sold a total of 16.6 million copies worldwide https://gamebiz.jp/news/354927 https://www.aroged.com/2022/08/18/counting-money-bandai-namco-elden-ring-sales-exceed-16-million/ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xugoshi Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 30 minutes ago, ziggypossum said: Elden Ring has sold a total of 16.6 million copies worldwide https://gamebiz.jp/news/354927 https://www.aroged.com/2022/08/18/counting-money-bandai-namco-elden-ring-sales-exceed-16-million/ 16 Million LET'S GO!!!!!! Take that EA and Activision that spout BS like " Nobody plays single player games anymore". Ain't no way Fromsoft will shelve this, expect a sequel sometime in the future for sure! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsundokuist Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Xugoshi said: 16 Million LET'S GO!!!!!! Take that EA and Activision that spout BS like " Nobody plays single player games anymore". Ain't no way Fromsoft will shelve this, expect a sequel sometime in the future for sure! I think their point is more around single player games aren’t worth their time considering the other games they make. I mean let’s assume Elden Ring sold every single 16.6M copy at $60 that’s just under $1bn in sales. FIFA 19 sold over 20M copies, let’s say that totalled an even $1bn, FIFA 19 then also made an additional $1.369bn in micro transaction sales, that’s at least $2.4bn and they got to do that all over again 12 months later (FIFA 20 sold fewer copies but did more, $1.481bn, in microtransactions). They also have Madden and NHL on the same business model… The F1 and WRC licenses they have too now. Considering the build up to Elden Ring was 13 years of 9/10 and 10/10 reviewed “Souls” games, it had the Game of Thrones guy involved and a sequel would be take at least 2 to 3 years why would EA even make comparative games on the slim chance they land on an Elden Ring-level hit? They didn’t with Mirror’s Edge or The Saboteur or whatever single player stuff were just a blip on their balance sheet in the past. I’d argue it’s actually a good thing these mega-publishers have increasingly moved out of the single-player space in gaming. Taking their marketing spend/power away allows the audience to cluster around smaller operations like FromSoft. If EA and Activision et al were still churning out single-player fantasy games it would just have fragmented the market and I doubt FromSoft would have had the free reign from BandaiNamco to make a game so ambitious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthPaul93 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 On 7/15/2022 at 8:18 PM, zulqarmessi said: , very very and very well deserved, it's a gem of 2022. Well deserved. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Posted August 18, 2022 Author Share Posted August 18, 2022 2 hours ago, Xugoshi said: 16 Million LET'S GO!!!!!! It's funny because I was thinking "Hmm, I hope the owner of this topic comes backs and changes the name, to reflect the latest news. And then when I checked who it was...... it was me!! lol 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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