PlayStation Classics Speculation Thread

[Zengaku92]

so are they ever going to fix the PS2 classics that are broken on PS5? Ape Escape 2 is STILL having graphical glitches. This is seriously embarassing at this point. Sony does not care about their most successful console of all time. Over a year since this PS+ relaunch and all we've been getting is PSP and PS1 games, zero new PS2 games. 

[Valtekken173]

12 hours ago, Zengaku92 said:

so are they ever going to fix the PS2 classics that are broken on PS5? Ape Escape 2 is STILL having graphical glitches. This is seriously embarassing at this point. Sony does not care about their most successful console of all time. Over a year since this PS+ relaunch and all we've been getting is PSP and PS1 games, zero new PS2 games. 

I personally believe they're gonna add PS2 games after they've almost run out of PS1 games at the very least, possibly PSP games too. The PS2's architecture is more complicated than the PS1's architecture and as such is more prone to emulation issues. Sony probably wants to avoid those headaches for as long as it can.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Valtekken173

[XxIsa-GxX]

41 minutes ago, Valtekken173 said:

I personally believe they're gonna add PS2 games after they've almost run out of PS1 games at the very least, possibly PSP games too. The PS2's architecture is more complicated than the PS1's architecture and as such is more prone to emulation issues. Sony probably wants to avoid those headaches for as long as it can.

 

They have to do something about PS3 games in the future as well since the current cloud streaming service isn't available worldwide, and the PS3 server blades are pretty much old at this point (IIRC PS Now was launched in 2014, so those server blades are now at least 9 years old)...

[knackered968]

On 8/23/2023 at 2:06 AM, Valtekken173 said:

 

 

38 minutes ago, Valtekken173 said:

I personally believe they're gonna add PS2 games after they've almost run out of PS1 games at the very least, possibly PSP games too. The PS2's architecture is more complicated than the PS1's architecture and as such is more prone to emulation issues. Sony probably wants to avoid those headaches for as long as it can.

I think they just want to ditch the old emulator which was riddled with issues of different nature (bad ps5 support, security exploits, low resolution and lack of options) and make a new one aligned with ps1 and psp emulators in terms of features and start from scratch. I think it's the right way to go, better start with less emulators and spend a few time ironing out the issues on those, then move on to other platforms.

 

I don't know if they will wait until they run out of games though, PS1 and PSP have huge libraries***, maybe they will start adding ps2 games along with ps1 and psp. I just hope that, in that case, the number of monthly games would go up because 3 games per month across 3 platforms would be a bit low

 

 

 

 

***though at this point it's clear that the support is limited to first party stuff and those few third parties who want to take part in it, which is disappointing but I don't know who's to blame, we can't rule out that third parties just don't want to take part in this because they plan to sell remasters

[Valtekken173]

7 hours ago, XxIsa-GxX said:

 

They have to do something about PS3 games in the future as well since the current cloud streaming service isn't available worldwide, and the PS3 server blades are pretty much old at this point (IIRC PS Now was launched in 2014, so those server blades are now at least 9 years old)...

I do remember rumors earlier this year claiming that native PS3 backwards compatibility for PS5 was in the works, but nothing came of those yet. Maybe we'll hear something when the PS5 Pro gets announced?

6 hours ago, knackered968 said:

I think they just want to ditch the old emulator which was riddled with issues of different nature (bad ps5 support, security exploits, low resolution and lack of options) and make a new one aligned with ps1 and psp emulators in terms of features and start from scratch. I think it's the right way to go, better start with less emulators and spend a few time ironing out the issues on those, then move on to other platforms.

 

I don't know if they will wait until they run out of games though, PS1 and PSP have huge libraries***, maybe they will start adding ps2 games along with ps1 and psp. I just hope that, in that case, the number of monthly games would go up because 3 games per month across 3 platforms would be a bit low

 

 

 

 

***though at this point it's clear that the support is limited to first party stuff and those few third parties who want to take part in it, which is disappointing but I don't know who's to blame, we can't rule out that third parties just don't want to take part in this because they plan to sell remasters

I don't know about that. If that were the case, they'd have started adding PS2 games monthly along with PS1 and PSP games, or maybe even a while after the PSP games started getting added, since the PSP games started getting added a while after PS1 games. We haven't seen any PS2 games yet other than the ones that already were there basically. Maybe they wanna reach the same number of games across all three platforms before releasing one game per platform each month? This would explain why they're going through PS1 and PSP games for now, and would give us PS2 games before the end of the entirety of the PS1 and PSP libraries.

 

EDIT: checked the number of PS1, PSP and PS2 classics - 26 PS1 classics, 21 PSP classics and 50 PS2 classics. At the current rate (3 games per month between PS1 and PSP), that means 17 months without new PS2 games. Not ideal, but better than completing those two libraries.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Valtekken173

[JoeNDM]

22 hours ago, Valtekken173 said:

I do remember rumors earlier this year claiming that native PS3 backwards compatibility for PS5 was in the works, but nothing came of those yet. Maybe we'll hear something when the PS5 Pro gets announced?

I don't know about that. If that were the case, they'd have started adding PS2 games monthly along with PS1 and PSP games, or maybe even a while after the PSP games started getting added, since the PSP games started getting added a while after PS1 games. We haven't seen any PS2 games yet other than the ones that already were there basically. Maybe they wanna reach the same number of games across all three platforms before releasing one game per platform each month? This would explain why they're going through PS1 and PSP games for now, and would give us PS2 games before the end of the entirety of the PS1 and PSP libraries.

 

EDIT: checked the number of PS1, PSP and PS2 classics - 26 PS1 classics, 21 PSP classics and 50 PS2 classics. At the current rate (3 games per month between PS1 and PSP), that means 17 months without new PS2 games. Not ideal, but better than completing those two libraries.

I can't imagine Sony waiting to add new PS2 games if they've got a functioning new emulator for PS5, so I would assume it's not ready for release yet -- or it's not being worked on at all, I don't think we've heard anything beyond speculation about a new PS2 emulator/PS3 emulator.

 

@Zengaku92 I know it's not ideal, but streaming Ape Escape 2 via Premium is an okay workaround. It's streaming from a PS4 server blade so there aren't the graphical glitches.

 

[Valtekken173]

2 hours ago, JoeNDM said:

I can't imagine Sony waiting to add new PS2 games if they've got a functioning new emulator for PS5, so I would assume it's not ready for release yet -- or it's not being worked on at all, I don't think we've heard anything beyond speculation about a new PS2 emulator/PS3 emulator.

 

@Zengaku92 I know it's not ideal, but streaming Ape Escape 2 via Premium is an okay workaround. It's streaming from a PS4 server blade so there aren't the graphical glitches.

 

Actually, I logged on literally just now to post this: https://www.resetera.com/threads/according-to-mystic-sony-is-working-on-a-new-updated-ps2-emulator-i-have-good-authority-that-is-happening-just-not-ready-yet.758698/

 

So it seems like @knackered968 was right. Sony's working on a new PS2 emulator for PS5 at least.

 

Also, a question for @jefXfree: if trophies get added to a game that has been completed already, would they unlock upon the first launch after the patch has been downloaded and installed or would the requirements need to be fulfilled again for the trophies to unlock?

Edited August 29, 2023 by Valtekken173

[jgm4789]

Probably the later as people were platting Locoroco midnight carnival in less then 5 minutes(which is only possible with a save pre trophy patch) because the trophies only involve starting a level.

[Valtekken173]

1 minute ago, jgm4789 said:

Probably the later as people were platting Locoroco midnight carnival in less then 5 minutes(which is only possible with a save pre trophy patch) because the trophies only involve starting a level.

That's because of that game's trophies having that specific requirement, but I was more wondering about stuff like "fall 500 times" in Echochrome for example.

[knackered968]

On 8/28/2023 at 9:09 PM, Valtekken173 said:

I do remember rumors earlier this year claiming that native PS3 backwards compatibility for PS5 was in the works, but nothing came of those yet. Maybe we'll hear something when the PS5 Pro gets announced?

I don't know about that. If that were the case, they'd have started adding PS2 games monthly along with PS1 and PSP games, or maybe even a while after the PSP games started getting added, since the PSP games started getting added a while after PS1 games. We haven't seen any PS2 games yet other than the ones that already were there basically. Maybe they wanna reach the same number of games across all three platforms before releasing one game per platform each month? This would explain why they're going through PS1 and PSP games for now, and would give us PS2 games before the end of the entirety of the PS1 and PSP libraries.

 

EDIT: checked the number of PS1, PSP and PS2 classics - 26 PS1 classics, 21 PSP classics and 50 PS2 classics. At the current rate (3 games per month between PS1 and PSP), that means 17 months without new PS2 games. Not ideal, but better than completing those two libraries.

 

If they're working on a new emulator they will likely start from scratch even in terms of library. The current games would be left behind unless the publisher gives the ok to make a new version. 

Which of course would not be a problem for first party games, but I can see them struggling to get third parties on board if the ps1/psp emus are anything to go by.

That's why I think it made more sense to not add anything else to the current ps2 emulator. And if you look at their wording when revealing the launch line up of the Classic sections, Ps2 games weren't treated the same way as Ps1/PSP, they were lumped together with remasters. To me ot's clear that the existing games(in their current form) are not part of whatever plan they would have for a ps2 emulator.

 

Btw I just saw the rumor - that's quite the timing lol. 

 

Also thanks to mods for opening a separate thread for speculation, it's better to leave the other thread just for reporting issues

 

 

[Valtekken173]

1 hour ago, knackered968 said:

 

If they're working on a new emulator they will likely start from scratch even in terms of library. The current games would be left behind unless the publisher gives the ok to make a new version. 

Which of course would not be a problem for first party games, but I can see them struggling to get third parties on board if the ps1/psp emus are anything to go by.

That's why I think it made more sense to not add anything else to the current ps2 emulator. And if you look at their wording when revealing the launch line up of the Classic sections, Ps2 games weren't treated the same way as Ps1/PSP, they were lumped together with remasters. To me it's clear that the existing games(in their current form) are not part of whatever plan they would have for a ps2 emulator.

 

Btw I just saw the rumor - that's quite the timing lol. 

 

Also thanks to mods for opening a separate thread for speculation, it's better to leave the other thread just for reporting issues

 

 

I mean, the emulator isn't a system component but a game component (they bundle a game-specific build of the emulator with each new title they add), which technically means they could keep the previous emulator for the titles that were already released and move forward with the new emulator for any new PS2 titles. After all, those PS2 games can be downloaded and played on PS4 right now and it wouldn't be an issue to keep things this way. I wonder how long it could take them to finish up development on the new PS2 emulator though, it's been quite a while already since the backcompat program launched

[Infected Elite]

just give us Tekken 6 on Classics and trophy support for Tekken 2

 

Also Valkyrie Profile and Dino Crisis 1 and 2 would be superb. Adding Parasite Eve 1 and 2 would be fab as well

Edited August 30, 2023 by Infected Elite

[sepheroithisgod]

I think they will just make a new emulator similar to PS1/PSP. The issue is probably the existing games. They have to get those working properly, but might have licensing issues putting them on a new emulator (I have no idea how that actually works).  They still have plenty of first-party games that can add to classics with PS1/PSP, so they are probably gonna milk that for some time.

[Valtekken173]

10 hours ago, sepheroithisgod said:

I think they will just make a new emulator similar to PS1/PSP. The issue is probably the existing games. They have to get those working properly, but might have licensing issues putting them on a new emulator (I have no idea how that actually works).  They still have plenty of first-party games that can add to classics with PS1/PSP, so they are probably gonna milk that for some time.

I doubt there will be licensing issues mainly because licensing is per-platform rather than per-game, which means that since they already got the green light for PS4 and PS5 on each of those games they can just push any changes to the emulator (which is Sony's own property, so no licensing shenanigans) as an update to the same game listing and they'll be in the clear. I do think they're gonna keep going with PS1/PSP only for a good while though before adding PS2 to that list. After all, as per the count I made, there's half as many PS1 or PSP titles as there are PS2 titles on the backcompat program, so they can just say they want number parity before moving on, which would give them a good deal of time to finish up development on the new PS2 emulator.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Valtekken173

[sepheroithisgod]

1 hour ago, Valtekken173 said:

I doubt there will be licensing issues mainly because licensing is per-platform rather than per-game, which means that since they already got the green light for PS4 and PS5 on each of those games they can just push any changes to the emulator (which is Sony's own property, so no licensing shenanigans) as an update to the same game listing and they'll be in the clear. I do think they're gonna keep going with PS1/PSP only for a good while though before adding PS2 to that list. After all, as per the count I made, there's half as many PS1 or PSP titles as there are PS2 titles on the backcompat program, so they can just say they want number parity before moving on, which would give them a good deal of time to finish up development on the new PS2 emulator.

You could definitely be right, I really have no knowledge of how licensing works.

 

Another thought I had was the way trophies are handled is very different. To my knowledge, the PS1/PSP emulator pops trophies and tracks progress based on images. That could be a compatibility issue for the older PS2 games where they use the more traditional trophy method to my knowledge.

[Valtekken173]

6 hours ago, sepheroithisgod said:

You could definitely be right, I really have no knowledge of how licensing works.

 

Another thought I had was the way trophies are handled is very different. To my knowledge, the PS1/PSP emulator pops trophies and tracks progress based on images. That could be a compatibility issue for the older PS2 games where they use the more traditional trophy method to my knowledge.

Based on images? Could you elaborate? Never heard of the method used so this is interesting insight

[sepheroithisgod]

3 hours ago, Valtekken173 said:

Based on images? Could you elaborate? Never heard of the method used so this is interesting insight

I can't find the original source, but I have heard it before, an example is in this thread for the LOD. Essentially, the trophy in this case is tied to when the word Rose appears on screen, which would appear for the first time when she joins the party, but since the word also appears in another location, it triggers the trophy early.
 

 

[kanzenchaos]

37 minutes ago, sepheroithisgod said:

I can't find the original source, but I have heard it before, an example is in this thread for the LOD. Essentially, the trophy in this case is tied to when the word Rose appears on screen, which would appear for the first time when she joins the party, but since the word also appears in another location, it triggers the trophy early.
 

 

Maybe it can kinda intercept when the game reads a text line from the archives? Plenty of emulators can do AI translations in basically any game using a function like this.

[JoeNDM]

I do like Mystic a lot but I'm personally going to take it with a grain of salt right now. If it ends up happening soon then it'll be a pleasant surprise!

 

Again, with this 'looking for images pops a trophy' thing, are we sure that's how it works? It feels like one person said it on the Issues thread and it's being taken as gospel. Trophies like get X amount of Spectre coins in Ape Escape, survive X amount of time without dying in Super Stardust, do various things X amount in Pinball Heroes don't seem to have any thing on screen signifying you've done a thing for the amount required. Maybe it's that way for certain trophies but I don't think anyone can say with any certainty.

[Valtekken173]

9 hours ago, JoeNDM said:

I do like Mystic a lot but I'm personally going to take it with a grain of salt right now. If it ends up happening soon then it'll be a pleasant surprise!

 

Again, with this 'looking for images pops a trophy' thing, are we sure that's how it works? It feels like one person said it on the Issues thread and it's being taken as gospel. Trophies like get X amount of Spectre coins in Ape Escape, survive X amount of time without dying in Super Stardust, do various things X amount in Pinball Heroes don't seem to have any thing on screen signifying you've done a thing for the amount required. Maybe it's that way for certain trophies but I don't think anyone can say with any certainty.

No, this is for the old PS2 emulator only. The PSP and PS1 emulators use a different, more specific system based on game data and triggers related to events.

 

EDIT: Annnnnd I read that post wrong. Apologies. Yeah this could be just for some specific trophies and not others.

10 hours ago, sepheroithisgod said:

I can't find the original source, but I have heard it before, an example is in this thread for the LOD. Essentially, the trophy in this case is tied to when the word Rose appears on screen, which would appear for the first time when she joins the party, but since the word also appears in another location, it triggers the trophy early.
 

 

Very interesting that Sony would use such a system. Surely they HAD to have considered how this could result in glitches and bugs of this kind, it seems weirdly cobbled together and subpar considering Sony's usual standards.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Valtekken173

[JoeNDM]

Mystic posted this on the Gaming Leaks subreddit:
 

"Never thought I’d appear on this subreddit lol. So just for context: Yes I did hear about this but more or less this seemed safe enough to say given the current emulator isn’t very good and many PS2 games are broken on PS5 through backwards compatibility. This should be expected.

But I do prefer to aggregate news on the channel so I really didn’t intend to make this sound like a big scoop or something. I don’t really do that normally. Having said that, no clue when this is coming. And just a little CYA moment: if it doesn’t happen, apologies for getting hopes up!"

[Valtekken173]

34 minutes ago, JoeNDM said:

Mystic posted this on the Gaming Leaks subreddit:
 

"Never thought I’d appear on this subreddit lol. So just for context: Yes I did hear about this but more or less this seemed safe enough to say given the current emulator isn’t very good and many PS2 games are broken on PS5 through backwards compatibility. This should be expected.

But I do prefer to aggregate news on the channel so I really didn’t intend to make this sound like a big scoop or something. I don’t really do that normally. Having said that, no clue when this is coming. And just a little CYA moment: if it doesn’t happen, apologies for getting hopes up!"

So it's basically an educated guess which was then confirmed by info he got. He's still saying it could end up not happening because of course this kind of thing is never 100% safe until there's an official announcement, but still. I'd personally guess we can expect this stuff by the end of next year.

[Boni_Neto]

I dream of seeing the first Silent Hill and the first 5 Tomb Raider games, but honestly I'm still EXTREMELY sour because Toy Story 2 didn't receive a trophy list. I mean, if there was a game that needed a trophy list, THAT was the one. It's just a joy to complete it 100%.

[zizimonster]

1 hour ago, Boni_Neto said:

I dream of seeing the first Silent Hill

Also Silent Hill: Origins - I really want to play that game with trophy support.

[Valtekken173]

On 9/4/2023 at 8:01 AM, Boni_Neto said:

I dream of seeing the first Silent Hill and the first 5 Tomb Raider games, but honestly I'm still EXTREMELY sour because Toy Story 2 didn't receive a trophy list. I mean, if there was a game that needed a trophy list, THAT was the one. It's just a joy to complete it 100%.

Word. I did the 100% when I was a kid (with all the masterful platforming skill a kid could have, which means it took ages) and I had tons of fun doing that. At the bare minimum I'd want trophy lists for Toy Story 2 and Ridge Racer 2 (which I have almost completed at this point truth be told, but I guess I could go through the last races again for a platinum).