crimsonidol38 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 For this event I'm trying to see how much I can do alongside others so as long as you pick a spot that has not been taken by other people I don't care at all. Personally I'd probably put BADLAND in one of the "all weekdays" spots. Sounds fine. I don't get why Doki-Doki gets all these warnings but someone (I don't recall the post, I think Hemiak was it) puts Gone Home on their list and that gets a pass somehow. In my experience Gone Home was very broken (for the minute speedrun trophy). Doki-Doki was fine, I had a couple of crashes but I just started saving after every planet and it was fine. I liked those "personality tests". Only thing that made me complain about the game was the poop and snot planet, I thought everything was fine until then. Poop and snot planet? Count me curious. Now I really want to see what this fuss is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendant909 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Dishonored was a great game, loved every minute of it. RoF was pretty awesome as well, will definitely go back at some point. I'm starting El Shaddai during the event, I'll move it to game 5 if that's where you plan on playing it. BGnE was meh... for me. I played the original ME on xbox for about 2 hours and wasn't impressed, though I loved the 2nd one and have the plat. I might start ME 3 during the event. If you want to play El Shaddai at the same time period go ahead. I mainly chose BG&E after the conversation in this forum concerning the game, and since a few people might have Valient Hearts planned, I chose that game instead. I might as well see if it's a fine wine like the Sly Cooper trilogy or if it's a disgusting goat cheese left out in sunlight like Jak II. I'm hoping Mass Effect at least has a strong start as I'm curious how the series went from beloved to a crud of an ending in the third game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyIaris Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) Don't have anything particular in mind at the moment, though I did trim out direct sequels (probably), things I've beaten on other systems, and a handful that just don't sound especially appealing right now. Suggestions/opinions are more than welcome. Just want to make sure I vary times and genres some. Gets a little harder when the majority is either action or an RPG. I'll play The Last of Us someday, I swear... Castlevania: Lords of Shadow Backlog: All are 0% PS3 or Vita titles. ** have been played a minor amount - prologue/first level/whatever at most.3D Dot Game HeroesAlice: Madness ReturnsArcaniAAtelier Rorona: The Alchemist of ArlandBabel RisingBatman: Arkham OriginsBayonettaBeyond Good & Evil HDBeyond: Two SoulsBound By FlameCastleStormCastlevania: Harmony of DespairCastlevania: Lords of ShadowDark Souls II**DarksidersDead Rising 2Demon's SoulsDevil May Cry HDDiablo III: Reaper of SoulsDisgaea D2: A Brighter DarknessDragon's CrownDynasty Warriors 7Dynasty Warriors: Gundam 3Enslaved: Odyssey to the WestFaery: Legends of AvalonFinal HorizonFlame OverFreedom WarsFrom DustHeavy RainHitman 2: Silent AssassinHunted: The Demon's Forge**ICOInfamousJak IIKingdoms of Amalur: ReckoningLara Croft and the Guardian of LightMad RidersMarvel: Ultimate Alliance 2Mass EffectMetal Gear Rising: RevengeanceMetal Gear Solid 2 HDMind=ZeroMinecraftMuramasa RebirthNaruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm GenerationsNi No Kuni: Wrath of the White WitchNierOf Orcs and Men**Okami HDOne Piece Unlimited World RedPersona 4 Golden**PrototypeRecord of Agarest War ZeroRed Dead RedemptionResident Evil 4Resident Evil 5Resident Evil 6Rune Factory: Tides of Destiny**Saints Row: The ThirdSaturday Morning RPGSengoku Basara: Samurai heroesShadow of the ColossusSleeping DogsSSXStar Ocean: The Last HopeStealth Inc 2: A Game of ClonesStriderSuper Time Force Ultra**Tales of XilliaThe SaboteurTom Clancy's Splinter Cell HDTrinity: Tales of Zill O'llUnder Defeat HD - Deluxe EditionVenetica**VesselWET**X-Men Origins: Wolverine Edited October 24, 2016 by SyIaris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MesopithecusUK Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Since it seems to be the cool thing to do, I'll go ahead and post some of my backlog that I'll be choosing from. Mainly to see if there is anyone that would want to play any of the same games together, especially ones with multiplayer trophies. There are a handful of those in this list so if anyone sees one they are considering playing, just let me know and I'll try including it. Or if you just want to recommend something that's cool too. I have some PS4 games from PS+ and am planning to finally try getting one this month. Going to wait for possible Black Friday deals though and that's the end of the month so I just removed those from consideration. Anyways, here's the list: Dark Souls Dark Souls II Devil May Cry Devil May Cry 2 Devil May Cry 3 Dragon Age: Origins Dragon Age II Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen Final Fantasy X Final Fantasy X-2 Kingdom Hearts Final Mix Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep Final Mix Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories LittleBigPlanet 3 Lost Planet 3 Mass Effect 3 Metal Gear Solid 2 Metal Gear Solid 3 Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker Mirror's Edge Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee HD Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty Remember Me Resident Evil Resident Evil 0 Resident Evil Revelations Resistance 3 Skyrim Spelunker HD Sword Art Online Re: Hollow Fragment Tomb Raider: Underworld Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Blacklist Tony Hawk's Pro Skater HD Vanquish Watch Dogs Yakuza 5 100% Final Fight: Double Impact Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams Mega Man 10 Retro City Rampage DX PS+ (PS3) Fat Princess From Dust Medal of Honor: Warfighter Super Stardust HD The Last Guy From your list, I will make the following comments based on the ones I've played: Final Fantasy X - I love this game a lot, to the point where I'm replaying it again on my new profile. I think first time around I sank around 140 hours into getting the platinum so it's by no means a quick game, however I feel in the 3 days play you could get through a good part of the story. LittleBigPlanet 3 - Whilst it doesn't live up to how good the other LBP games are, there is still a charm to this one and I love the addition of the new characters. I also think this one, hands down, has the best soundtrack. Good for some couch co-op too and it also benefits from being the easiest LBP game. I have Sword Art: Hollow Fragment and I believe Marcus said he did as well. I'm pretty sure there is an element of online co-operative play so maybe if there is 3 of us we could do some of that as a group? [i'll probably throw my hat into the ring this time. Last time I was busy preparing for Platinum Rain Day, and I didn't want to take on more than I could handle. This is everything I could start, at the moment. Although, I'm sure some things won't fit the theme: PS3: Binary Domain Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 Costume Quest 2 Crysis 2 Crysis 3 Dishonored Double Dragon Neon Far Cry 2 Final Fantasy XIII-2 Hyperdimension Neptunia Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory Jak II Jak 3 Killzone 3 Legend of Kay Anniversary LittleBigPlanet Karting Marvel vs. Capcom 2 Medal of Honor Frontline Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee One Piece: Unlimited World Red Persona 4 Ultimax Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones Puppeteer Quantum Conundrum Ratchet & Clank: Full Frontal Assault Resistance 2 Resistance 3 Rock of Ages Rune Factory: Tides of Destiny Shadow of the Colossus Shoot Many Robots Star Trek Starhawk Tales of Symphonia Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World Tokyo Jungle White Night Chonicles White Night Chronicles 2 PS4: Arcade 3-in-1(Pac-Man, Dig Dug, and Galaga) Catlateral Damage Dead or Alive 5: Last Round Downwell Duck Dynasty Final Fantasy X-2 Foul Play Hitman GO Knack Mad Max Manhunt Omega Quintet Republique Rise of the Kasai Rogue Galaxy Shantae: Risky's Revenge Square Heroes Stories: The Path of Destinies The Lego Movie Videogame The Talos Principle Transistor Velocity 2x Wild Arms 3 Vita: BlazBlue: Continuum Shift EXTEND Divekick Dokuro Flying Hamster HD Guacamelee! Hyperdevotion Noire Killzone: Mercenary Knytt Underground MLB 14 The Show Malicious Rebirth Mortal Kombat Muramasa Rebirth Sly Cooper 1 Sly 2 Sly 3 Sly 4 Spelunky When Vikings Attack Zombie Tycoon 2 PS+: Transformers Devastation is on my system. Not sure what else I really have through it, that I legitimately want to play. Lots to choose from here Costume Quest 2 - Currently playing through this myself and I love it. It's not a long game and I got most of it done today, I feel like the battle system shares some similarities to South Park: Stick of Truth Far Cry 2 - Nooooo, you poor soul. Don't subject yourself to the horror of this game. The online is pretty damn awful and I clocked over 100 hours of just grinding out Soldier of Misfortune. Then the single player is a glitchy, unforgettable mess Final Fantasy XIII-2 - I know the XIII series gets slated but I actually really enjoyed this installment and if I remember correctly, this one isn't so long and I think I got the platinum in less than 60 hours. Plus Moogles ftw :D LittleBigPlanet Karting - It's sackboy....what's not to love? Catlateral Damage - Just a fun silly little game where you can be a cat and make a mess Transistor - If you enjoyed Bastion then I'd say play Transistor. I really like the music on it. Dokuro - I found this game really tedious and annoying. If you like Teslagrad, you might like this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oobedoob S Benubi Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 list This is what I have played and enjoyed: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow I am glad that I played this before I knew of God Of War because boy, did it steal a lot from those games... Enslaved: Odyssey to the West Great game and it does not get the appreciation it should get. Played through it on X360 and got it along with the PS3, will definitely play through it again at some point. Flame Over Played it during this event, enjoyed it a lot. From Dust Never completed it but I really liked what I played. Heavy Rain Kinda cheesy at times but much better than Beyond Two Souls in my opinion. Jak II The first is still the best but all Jaks of the trilogy are great games. Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light Fun if you play with others. Mass Effect HOW HAVE YOU NOT PLAYED THIS YET! Red Dead Redemption HOW HAVE YOU NOT PLAYED THIS YET! Saints Row: The Third If you think GTA IV is too serious, this game is for you. Sleeping Dogs If you think GTA IV is not angsty enough, this game is for you. Strider Fun as long as it lasts. The Saboteur Fun, though very unpolished. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyIaris Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 This is what I have played and enjoyed: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow I am glad that I played this before I knew of God Of War because boy, did it steal a lot from those games... Enslaved: Odyssey to the West Great game and it does not get the appreciation it should get. Played through it on X360 and got it along with the PS3, will definitely play through it again at some point. Flame Over Played it during this event, enjoyed it a lot. From Dust Never completed it but I really liked what I played. Heavy Rain Kinda cheesy at times but much better than Beyond Two Souls in my opinion. Jak II The first is still the best but all Jaks of the trilogy are great games. Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light Fun if you play with others. Mass Effect HOW HAVE YOU NOT PLAYED THIS YET! Red Dead Redemption HOW HAVE YOU NOT PLAYED THIS YET! Saints Row: The Third If you think GTA IV is too serious, this game is for you. Sleeping Dogs If you think GTA IV is not angsty enough, this game is for you. Strider Fun as long as it lasts. The Saboteur Fun, though very unpolished. The only God of War clone I've played was Dante's Inferno, and I enjoyed the gameplay... I can't seem to force myself to finish an actual God of War, though. Hoping Castlevania's more to my liking. First Jak game was definitely fun. I've played Dragon Age Origins multiple times, 100%'d Dragon Age II, and tried Knights of the Old Republic, does that count? No? Oh... Wouldn't be on my list at all if the ME trilogy hadn't shown up on sale for $5, to be honest. Sci-fi isn't really my thing. Still, nothing wrong with trying something different now and then. RDR's online trophies are intimidating for a lazy completionist that hates PvP. Uncharted... *sob* Got my PS3 when the PS4 came out, so I'm a bit behind on things. Never played any GTA, but Saints Row IV is one of my favorite games. I know 3 is more serious and a heck of a lot more realistic. No comments on the others since I've never played them/others in the series, but thank you very much for the list! I'll go through others' lists at some point in the afternoon. One in the morning isn't ideal for coherency... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoo_eyes Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) I don't get why Doki-Doki gets all these warnings but someone (I don't recall the post, I think Hemiak was it) puts Gone Home on their list and that gets a pass somehow. In my experience Gone Home was very broken (for the minute speedrun trophy). The Gone Home 1 min trophy works as long as you play offline. Either way you don't actually lose progress, like you do in Doki-Doki, if things mess up. Poop and snot planet? Count me curious. Now I really want to see what this fuss is all about. The game itself is fine and the gameplay is actually interesting, what most people have a problem with is the constant crashing. As long as you save after finishing a planet you should be fine though. Not saying that it won't crash, just that you won't lose all that much progress when it does. *snip* The ones I played enough to form an opinion on are these: Beyond: Two Souls - Interesting story overall, as long as you don't mind the ton of qtes. That's the dev's thing after all. Brace yourself for sitting through the unskippable credits numerous times, if you want to plat it. I'd advise watching an episode of anime in the meanwhile, as that's about as long as the criedits will role. Demon's Souls - It's one of my favourite games of all time. Diablo III: Reaper of Souls - I'M loving this one, it was well adapted to consoles and is a lot easier than the PC version was, when I played it there. Heavy Rain - See Beyond Two Souls. Same pros and cons, without the sci-fi elements and a better story (imo). Infamous - Good game, a bit dated by now though. The collectibles are a pain, unless you print out a map beforehand. I like it more than the 2nd one. Jak II - not a good game Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light - I've enjoyed these sort of top-down TR games. Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm Generations - One of my favourite Naruto games, it has one of the most extensive rosters and a couple of new modes. One Piece Unlimited World Red - Feel meh about it, as I said elsewhere, a lot of back and forth that should not be necessary and poor camera during boss battles **Prototype - I prefered this franchise over Infamous. THe story is a cluster-fuck, so unless you pay close attention it won't make sense. Collectibles are a pain. Resident Evil 5 . I really liked it. Yes, it's more action oriented, who cares. It's fun, that's what matters. AI is thick as a brick though, so if you can play it in co-op **Saints Row: The Third - Best Saints Row game by miles. It's an over-the-top version of GTA Sleeping Dogs - Another one similar to GTA, also a good game with a lot of melee combat Venetica - it looks terrible, personally I found the gameplay addictive. The cutscenes are void of sound, the story is dumb the quick select system is awful. Has game breaking glitches. I had a lot of progress done, then I got a part where a conversation with an npc should happen, after you freed him. Well, he doesn't say anything, and thus the game can't continue as it's a main quest. Edited October 24, 2016 by voodoo_eyes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonidol38 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) Alice: Madness Returns Atelier Rorona: The Alchemist of Arland Castlevania: Lords of Shadow Dragon's Crown Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch Okami HD Saturday Morning RPG Tales of Xillia Some comments on the games: Alice: Madness Returns Actually a quite interesting Action-Adventure with an unconventional artstyle. From what I know and remember (the first two chapters) I really enjoyed it, even though the platforming was awful. Atelier Rorona: The Alchemist of Arland I would only play this if you like games with time-management. I did this game in the first round of the event and didn't really enjoy it. You might read some basic impressions in this post o' mine but as every opinion it's biased. Castlevania: Lords of Shadow MStalker58 played it and really enjoyed it and I also played it about two years ago (still I'm in the first chapter ) and enjoyed it. Yes, it's similar to God of War but the undertone is much more serious. I also think that the composer did a great job with the OST. Dragon's Crown A nice brawler with a unique art-style. Only downside is that this game gets repetitive rather soon and I don't like it as much as other Vanillaware-games. I guess you will get the best experience out of this when you have the possibility to play it in coop with someone. Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch This game has a great start, a really nice artstyle and good music (*cough* except the battle theme *cough*). Later on it became rather disappointing, mostly due to the battle system and the stupid quests (oh and Swayne, the bum prince) Okami HD HOW HAVE YOU NOT PLAYED THIS YET! Saturday Morning RPG The first two or three hours were fun but two advices: 1. If you can, play it on the Vita and get yourself a touchpen. 2. Play it only for short intervals. The game is one big grindfest. Wouldn't recommend to play this game if you want to have a fun time (but depending on your playtime during this event you might still have fun). Tales of Xillia If you like action-based combat systems I'm sure you will enjoy this one. This games takes a while before it starts to take off but IMO it's a really good game. The only God of War clone I've played was Dante's Inferno, and I enjoyed the gameplay... I can't seem to force myself to finish an actual God of War, though. Hoping Castlevania's more to my liking. May I ask what your main problem with the GoW-franchise is? The game itself is fine and the gameplay is actually interesting, what most people have a problem with is the constant crashing. As long as you save after finishing a planet you should be fine though. Not saying that it won't crash, just that you won't lose all that much progress when it does. Thanks for the warning. Edited October 24, 2016 by Crimson Idol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oobedoob S Benubi Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 The Gone Home 1 min trophy works as long as you play offline. Either way you don't actually lose progress, like you do in Doki-Doki, if things mess up. Nope... I played offline and it still did not work. Yes, I tried deleting all game content and redownloading and going offline directly. That trophy is glitched so bad, there are over two dozen theories about what makes it work. All you've got to do with Doki-Doki is just save after every planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoo_eyes Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Nope... I played offline and it still did not work. Yes, I tried deleting all game content and redownloading and going offline directly. That trophy is glitched so bad, there are over two dozen theories about what makes it work. All you've got to do with Doki-Doki is just save after every planet. It always was somewhat glitched since the start, yeah. In my own experience, I tried it while online and timed it, was well below the required time and the trophy didn't pop, Like you, I also tried deleting the save, and it didn't work either.. The first time I tried it while playing offline, I got it. Since this worked for a lot of other people as well, I figured that would be the go to workaround. Since Hem doesn't own a ps4 yet, I didn't even bother to look at the list of the games he has for it. Otherwise I'd probably would have pointed that game out, although probably not because it's glitched, but because it's a subpar experience. The best thing in the whole game, was one of the dev commentaries, where I recognised the voice of one of the guys from Idle Thumbs podcast,, which then reminded me to listen to them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oobedoob S Benubi Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 It always was somewhat glitched since the start, yeah. In my own experience, I tried it while online and timed it, was well below the required time and the trophy didn't pop, Like you, I also tried deleting the save, and it didn't work either.. The first time I tried it while playing offline, I got it. Since this worked for a lot of other people as well, I figured that would be the go to workaround. Since Hem doesn't own a ps4 yet, I didn't even bother to look at the list of the games he has for it. Otherwise I'd probably would have pointed that game out, although probably not because it's glitched, but because it's a subpar experience. The best thing in the whole game, was one of the dev commentaries, where I recognised the voice of one of the guys from Idle Thumbs podcast,, which then reminded me to listen to them again. I tried about everything - online, offline, deleting the game a bunch of times, clicking through intro/outro, not clicking through them... In the end I got the trophy on an online run, it wasn't even my fastest one. Unfortunately there's not a single batch of settings that's a guarantee. Personally I would not advise someone to play this game for a Hemiak event not only beause it's boring or a glitched trophy (I'll recommend Luftrausers any day of the week even though it has two unobtainables), but because it does not nearly have enough content to fill three hours. Your first runthrough will probably only last an hour, maybe two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyIaris Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 The ones I played enough to form an opinion on are these: Beyond: Two Souls - Interesting story overall, as long as you don't mind the ton of qtes. That's the dev's thing after all. Brace yourself for sitting through the unskippable credits numerous times, if you want to plat it. I'd advise watching an episode of anime in the meanwhile, as that's about as long as the criedits will role. Demon's Souls - It's one of my favourite games of all time. Diablo III: Reaper of Souls - I'M loving this one, it was well adapted to consoles and is a lot easier than the PC version was, when I played it there. Heavy Rain - See Beyond Two Souls. Same pros and cons, without the sci-fi elements and a better story (imo). Infamous - Good game, a bit dated by now though. The collectibles are a pain, unless you print out a map beforehand. I like it more than the 2nd one. Jak II - not a good game Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light - I've enjoyed these sort of top-down TR games. Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm Generations - One of my favourite Naruto games, it has one of the most extensive rosters and a couple of new modes. One Piece Unlimited World Red - Feel meh about it, as I said elsewhere, a lot of back and forth that should not be necessary and poor camera during boss battles **Prototype - I prefered this franchise over Infamous. THe story is a cluster-fuck, so unless you pay close attention it won't make sense. Collectibles are a pain. Resident Evil 5 . I really liked it. Yes, it's more action oriented, who cares. It's fun, that's what matters. AI is thick as a brick though, so if you can play it in co-op **Saints Row: The Third - Best Saints Row game by miles. It's an over-the-top version of GTA Sleeping Dogs - Another one similar to GTA, also a good game with a lot of melee combat Venetica - it looks terrible, personally I found the gameplay addictive. The cutscenes are void of sound, the story is dumb the quick select system is awful. Has game breaking glitches. I had a lot of progress done, then I got a part where a conversation with an npc should happen, after you freed him. Well, he doesn't say anything, and thus the game can't continue as it's a main quest. Oof, forgot Venetica was supposed to be so buggy. I just forced my way through Young Justice, so let's... not do that right now. Don't mind playing stuff that's dated, just needs to be fun. Unlikely to be playing multiplayer in anything, sadly. Thanks for the list! I'll definitely be going for a couple of those. Some comments on the games: Alice: Madness Returns Actually a quite interesting Action-Adventure with an unconventional artstyle. From what I know and remember (the first two chapters) I really enjoyed it, even though the platforming was awful. Atelier Rorona: The Alchemist of Arland I would only play this if you like games with time-management. I did this game in the first round of the event and didn't really enjoy it. You might read some basic impressions in this post o' mine but as every opinion it's biased. Castlevania: Lords of Shadow MStalker58 played it and really enjoyed it and I also played it about two years ago (still I'm in the first chapter ) and enjoyed it. Yes, it's similar to God of War but the undertone is much more serious. I also think that the composer did a great job with the OST. Dragon's Crown A nice brawler with a unique art-style. Only downside is that this game gets repetitive rather soon and I don't like it as much as other Vanillaware-games. I guess you will get the best experience out of this when you have the possibility to play it in coop with someone. Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch This game has a great start, a really nice artstyle and good music (*cough* except the battle theme *cough*). Later on it became rather disappointing, mostly due to the battle system and the stupid quests (oh and Swayne, the bum prince) Okami HD HOW HAVE YOU NOT PLAYED THIS YET! Saturday Morning RPG The first two or three hours were fun but two advices: 1. If you can, play it on the Vita and get yourself a touchpen. 2. Play it only for short intervals. The game is one big grindfest. Wouldn't recommend to play this game if you want to have a fun time (but depending on your playtime during this event you might still have fun). Tales of Xillia If you like action-based combat systems I'm sure you will enjoy this one. This games takes a while before it starts to take off but IMO it's a really good game. May I ask what your main problem with the GoW-franchise is? Thanks for the warning. I did play Okami, a little. Trying to paint the symbols with an original Wiimote got old fast. God of War... I love the setting and the hack-and-slashing. I hate Kratos and I'm very bad at these specific QTEs (1 and Chains of Olympus), for some reason. Just personal issues; they're certainly good games. Impressive review of Atelier, sounds like one to set aside for days I'm feeling especially patient. Unlikely to have much luck with multiplayer on PS3, sadly. Mmm, that's not making Saturday Morning RPG sound promising... especially since Vita + touchpen isn't an option. I just have one of those sad little Playstation TV thingamajigs that lets me play a handful of Vita games. Awesome, thank you for taking the time to write that up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonidol38 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I did play Okami, a little. Trying to paint the symbols with an original Wiimote got old fast. That's the same thoughts my girlfriend had. She played the Wii-version and especially the battles were annoying due to the constant hand shaking you had to do. The PS3-version is IMO much better. It looks more crisp and the DualShock-based controls really help (but you can also use the move if you want to). God of War... I love the setting and the hack-and-slashing. I hate Kratos and I'm very bad at these specific QTEs (1 and Chains of Olympus), for some reason. Just personal issues; they're certainly good games. The Hack'n'Slash-parts of Castlevania are also quite nice but I have to warn you: That game also has some QTEs and one mechanic ("white circles") isn't intuitive at all. But even if you fail them it won't be game over directly. Mmm, that's not making Saturday Morning RPG sound promising... especially since Vita + touchpen isn't an option. I just have one of those sad little Playstation TV thingamajigs that lets me play a handful of Vita games. The TV-thingy is also an option but as a consequence the mechanic which you could have done via the touchscreen has to be done via rotating the left analog stick quite fast. Actually it's not really necessary but it speeds up the playthrough. Overall the game is QTE-heavy. =\ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oobedoob S Benubi Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 The only God of War clone I've played was Dante's Inferno, and I enjoyed the gameplay... I can't seem to force myself to finish an actual God of War, though. Hoping Castlevania's more to my liking. First Jak game was definitely fun. I've played Dragon Age Origins multiple times, 100%'d Dragon Age II, and tried Knights of the Old Republic, does that count? No? Oh... Wouldn't be on my list at all if the ME trilogy hadn't shown up on sale for $5, to be honest. Sci-fi isn't really my thing. Still, nothing wrong with trying something different now and then. RDR's online trophies are intimidating for a lazy completionist that hates PvP. Uncharted... *sob* Got my PS3 when the PS4 came out, so I'm a bit behind on things. Never played any GTA, but Saints Row IV is one of my favorite games. I know 3 is more serious and a heck of a lot more realistic. No comments on the others since I've never played them/others in the series, but thank you very much for the list! I'll go through others' lists at some point in the afternoon. One in the morning isn't ideal for coherency... Castlevania is so okay it's average. Remember when Konami made actually awesome Castlevania games? Note that none of the Jak games are really alike. I guess a space opera still counts as sci-fi.... I don't get why people can say that sci-fi is not their thing though since it's such a broad genre. Star Wars and Alien count as sci-fi, but Sunshine, Godzilla and Jurassic Park count as well. Iron Man (and basically anything else Marvel these days), Inception, The Hunger Games... Sci-fi is so much more than "aliens and spaceships". Though with Mass Effect... Yeah, aliens and spaceships. Just ignore the online part and play Red Dead Redemption for the single player experience, screw trophies! Never played GTA? WAAAAAAAAAAAAA... Go play GTA V now! Also SR 3 is not more serious than SR4, it's just less sci-fi. (see how weird it is to say sci-fi is not your thing? SR4 is apparently one of your favourite games but it's got sci-fi leaking from all its pores!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MStalker58 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) The ones in bold are ones I've played on ps3 or ps2 and really enjoyed. Like you mentioned though, you should probably work on Demon's Souls before starting dark Souls. The stories aren't actually related at all though, so it doesn't really matter. Dark Souls is by far my favorite of the series and easily in my top 5 all time games. Only thing is that a lot of these are really long RPG games that will take a while to finish. So I'd also vote for starting Remember Me, Mirror's Edge,and Vanquish. I have all the non-bold games, so if you want we could synch up one or two of those. From the non-bold games, the ones I'm considering the most are Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty and Watch Dogs. Probably going to play Munch's Oddysee since DamagingRob was considering it too but I've heard all the Oddworld games are completely different so maybe it would be alright to include both? I'm looking forward to Tasty more but doesn't really matter to me if you'd rather us not include 2 games from the same franchise. I could definitely include Watch Dogs though and we could try doing the online together if you are interested. Doesn't have to be during the event but we could try. Sure, I don't mind putting Super Stardust HD on there. That can help me decide if I want the PS4 version with VR in it. Cool, I'll include it in my list then. Been a while since I looked up any info on the game but I don't believe there was any co-op so I guess it doesn't matter too much if we play at the same time. Still, I have no preference for when I play it in the event so I'll just let you decide when you are going to play it and adjust my list accordingly. *snip Your list looks like it could have been my backlog a while back. So many great games. I'm jealous. Anyways, not going to comment on them all because this post would be pretty long but a couple that jump out at me. 3D Dot Game Hereos: Mentioned it a few posts ago, but I always recommend this game whenever someone brings it up. No idea if you have ever played them, but it's basically an old-school Zelda game with shiny new graphics. I loved it. Red Dead Redemption and Mass Effect are classics. Personally, I've enjoyed Mass Effect 2 more than the original but still it's the first game in a great series. Castlevania: Lords of Shadow: Played this game in the first event and recently went back and finished the plat and DLC for it. Would have been ranked higher but I played some other great games. Yes it's similar to GoW but I just love the atmosphere of Castlevania games. Enslaved: Odyssey to the West: Agree with Billy about it being one of those overlooked games. Wouldn't say it's great but considering I had never even heard of the game before it caught my eye in a sale, I was pleasantly surprised by it. So many others that I could go on and on. Okami, Sleeping Dogs, Strider, Darksiders, SSX, Shadow of the Colossus, Demon's Souls (haven't played enough to fully judge but loved what I've started) etc. All games that I enjoyed. I have Sword Art: Hollow Fragment and I believe Marcus said he did as well. I'm pretty sure there is an element of online co-operative play so maybe if there is 3 of us we could do some of that as a group? That sounds good to me and I'd be up for doing that. Like I said though, wouldn't be until after this event and still need to actually buy my PS4. Thanks for the other suggestions too. LBP 3 will probably make my final list. Glad to hear it's the easiest game from the series. I loved the first 2 games but some of those online trophies were misery. Edited October 24, 2016 by MStalker58 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oobedoob S Benubi Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Cool, I'll include it in my list then. Been a while since I looked up any info on the game but I don't believe there was any co-op so I guess it doesn't matter too much if we play at the same time. Still, I have no preference for when I play it in the event so I'll just let you decide when you are going to play it and adjust my list accordingly. No, I don't think there's any co-op at all. Playing at the same time would be good so we write stuff about it at the same time as well. So it seems that now, I have four possible matches with others: Super Stardust HD with Stalker, BADLAND with Crimson and Furi and Lords Of The Fallen with Hemiak (if he ends up putting those on his list). That leaves me with (at least) six spots open for any of these games (cursive is on my own shortlist): PS4 Leo's Fortune The Playroom PS+ Galak-Z: The Dimensional Magicka 2 (only if we can find a group to play with) Rebel Galaxy Resident Evil Saints Row: Gat Out Of Hell Tricky Towers Ultratron PS3 Doodle God/Devil/Kingdom PS+ Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon Mad Riders Retro/Grade Vita PS+ Actual Sunlight Code: Realize Surge Deluxe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyIaris Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 That's the same thoughts my girlfriend had. She played the Wii-version and especially the battles were annoying due to the constant hand shaking you had to do. The PS3-version is IMO much better. It looks more crisp and the DualShock-based controls really help (but you can also use the move if you want to). The Hack'n'Slash-parts of Castlevania are also quite nice but I have to warn you: That game also has some QTEs and one mechanic ("white circles") isn't intuitive at all. But even if you fail them it won't be game over directly. The TV-thingy is also an option but as a consequence the mechanic which you could have done via the touchscreen has to be done via rotating the left analog stick quite fast. Actually it's not really necessary but it speeds up the playthrough. Overall the game is QTE-heavy. =\ Yeah, the entire thing was just too clunky to enjoy. I've heard good things about both the PS2 and PS3 versions, so it should go much better. QTEs aren't my favorite thing, I just seem to fail miserably with God of War's. Did alright with Dante's Inferno, Telltale stuff, Tomb Raider, etc... not sure what it is. Definitely leaning towards Castlevania as one of my ten... Ah, so some good old-fashioned Mario Party joystick burn? Ow. Castlevania is so okay it's average. Remember when Konami made actually awesome Castlevania games? Note that none of the Jak games are really alike. I guess a space opera still counts as sci-fi.... I don't get why people can say that sci-fi is not their thing though since it's such a broad genre. Star Wars and Alien count as sci-fi, but Sunshine, Godzilla and Jurassic Park count as well. Iron Man (and basically anything else Marvel these days), Inception, The Hunger Games... Sci-fi is so much more than "aliens and spaceships". Though with Mass Effect... Yeah, aliens and spaceships. Just ignore the online part and play Red Dead Redemption for the single player experience, screw trophies! Never played GTA? WAAAAAAAAAAAAA... Go play GTA V now! Also SR 3 is not more serious than SR4, it's just less sci-fi. (see how weird it is to say sci-fi is not your thing? SR4 is apparently one of your favourite games but it's got sci-fi leaking from all its pores!) No, because I've never played a Castlevania game, either. Thought starting with some of the "worse" ones would be better - trophy-less Symphony of the Night is also in my backlog. Love the music, though. Impressive. Especially for a trilogy that was all released within five years. Why... Yeah, that was vague on my part, sorry. I'm huge on dragons, magic, and stabby weapons. Aliens, guns (ammo is so annoying), and tech don't tend to grab me. Superheroes are a mix of both, really, just leans to one side or the other depending on the particular series. Saints Row IV is definitely sci-fi. And a shooter. But it just about killed me laughing more than once and I got to shoot black holes, fire bullets, dubstep waves, and punt people in fast forward. It's the cheesy insanity that I love it for. Yeah, I really should... Eh, I don't really feel like GTA is my kind of game. I can definitely appreciate its popularity, though. Your list looks like it could have been my backlog a while back. So many great games. I'm jealous. Anyways, not going to comment on them all because this post would be pretty long but a couple that jump out at me. 3D Dot Game Hereos: Mentioned it a few posts ago, but I always recommend this game whenever someone brings it up. No idea if you have ever played them, but it's basically an old-school Zelda game with shiny new graphics. I loved it. Red Dead Redemption and Mass Effect are classics. Personally, I've enjoyed Mass Effect 2 more than the original but still it's the first game in a great series. Castlevania: Lords of Shadow: Played this game in the first event and recently went back and finished the plat and DLC for it. Would have been ranked higher but I played some other great games. Yes it's similar to GoW but I just love the atmosphere of Castlevania games. Enslaved: Odyssey to the West: Agree with Billy about it being one of those overlooked games. Wouldn't say it's great but considering I had never even heard of the game before it caught my eye in a sale, I was pleasantly surprised by it. So many others that I could go on and on. Okami, Sleeping Dogs, Strider, Darksiders, SSX, Shadow of the Colossus, Demon's Souls (haven't played enough to fully judge but loved what I've started) etc. All games that I enjoyed. I got it entirely because of Zelda. Yeah, I've heard 2's the best in the series. Heard the first ME is kind of clunky combat-wise, which hasn't pushed me to start it. Alright, you've all convinced me - Lords of Shadow is definitely going on the list. Played loads of SSX Tricky and 3, fun games. Looking forward to starting the reboot. Thanks for the suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiak Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) Furi and Lords Of The Fallen with Hemiak (if he ends up putting those on his list).I would add both of those games in a heartbeat but I still don't have a ps4. Ultratron was fun but nothing special, and you can literally 100% it in under 3 hours, so I probably wouldn't bother adding it here. I really enjoyed Retro/Grade and it's a very different experience, but its not exactly brimming with content either. Still it could be interesting to hear your impressions and review. I would probably play Rebel Galaxy, Resident Evil, and Blood Dragon, other than that @Stalker: Watch dogs sounds good. Just pick a spot other than 5 and we'll make it happen. I have no desire atm to play New & Tasty, so feel free to play whatever you want in that regard. Edited October 24, 2016 by Hemiak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamagingRob Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) -snip- This was my problem with All 4 One. It's just so boring, that I couldn't keep at it by myself.. Trying to get through it, now, with a guy. Not quite so bad with more people, but still painful. ^^' -snip- Appreciate the offers to help. I should push through Jak 2, I suppose, so I can get to the better game. Hopefully, I don't hate it and FFA. ^^' Glad you've decided to join us. Here are my recommendations. Jak 2 is both the most loved, and the most hated Jak game. Personally it's my favorite in the series, and I actually think it's better than any other game in any of the big three ps platforming series. R&C FFA/QF is an ok game, but it's probably the weakest game in that series for a number of reasons. If you missed SoTC on ps2 definitely give it a shot, and Puppeteer is a ridiculously fun experience. That's... a really positive opinion of Jak 2. Lol. And yeah, I missed Ico and SoTC on PS2. Played Ico forever ago(it's my 1337 milestone :/), and still haven't played SoTC.. -snip- I've been meaning to give Puppeteer a go. I usually enjoy platformers. The first Neptunia is so much different from Re;Birth 1, that I wanted to give it a try. But it might be hard to get into after playing the newer ones. -snip- I'm the kind of guy who, when he likes a game in a series, decides he has to play them all. :/ That's how I ended up with Far Cry 2. ^^' I actually loathed 13.. Haven't paid $60 for a game since, it was that much of a disappointment to me.. I've been told this one's better, so I bought it cheap. But I'm skeptical. I'll be interested to see if my cats look at me funny when I play Catlateral. And Teslagrad was all right. Not the greatest, though. -snip- Lots of good stuff, here.. Alice: Madness Returns- Really liked this. I'm into dark versions of fairy tales, though. Batman: Arkham Origins- Despite not being made by Rocksteady, this was a good game. Beyond Good & Evil HD- Great game. Am excited for the sequel. Beyond: Two Souls- I liked this more than others, it seems. But it and Heavy Rain are both good. Enslaved: Odyssey to the West- Loved it. Freedom Wars- Pretty fun until I hit a wall, and couldn't progress any further without grinding. Heavy Rain- Press X to Jason. Great mystery. Hitman 2: Silent Assassin- I love Hitman, I really do. But I would never go for this one's Plat again. Really annoying bugs. The later entries were much more polished and less aggrivating. **ICO- Different. It was enjoyable, but guiding the girl around could be a pain sometimes. Infamous- Great game. 2 is even better, and still one of my favorite PS3 games. Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning- Really fun game. I even bought the DLC(albeit on sale), which I rarely do. Mad Riders- Pretty fun ATV racer. Mass Effect- To quote Billy, "HOW HAVE YOU NOT PLAYED THIS, YET!?" As someone who loved the KOTOR games, these did not disappoint. Mind=Zero- Pretty fun Persona clone. Cliffhanger story with a sequel likely never coming, though. Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm Generations- This was my first Naruto Plat. Pretty fun. Revolution and 3 are better, in my opinion. Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch- Fantastic. Pokemon with a good story. Nier- Also fantastic. **Okami HD- Also, also fantastic. Persona 4 Golden- Also, also, also- okay, I'll stop. This is one of the best games I've ever played, though. Get on that. **Prototype- Didn't really care for this. Red Dead Redemption- I'm not even that into westerns, and I loved the hell out of this game. **Saints Row: The Third- Best Saint's Row game, in my opinion. Saturday Morning RPG- Fun, but can get tedious. Especially, with the scratching stickers mechanic before every. damn. battle. Sleeping Dogs- Loved it. Star Ocean: The Last Hope- Not as good as Till the End of Time, but I enjoyed it. Strider- Pretty good. Backtracking for collectibles could get a little annoying, since you couldn't always tell where you'd end up when leaving an area. Apotheon is the first and only one of these games I've played that got the map right. **Tales of Xillia- Not my favoite Tales game, but it's good. The Saboteur- This. This was fun. The game starts out black and white, and you slowly add color to the world. Tempted to play it again on PlayStation, now.. Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell HD- I love Splinter Cell, and stealth games in general. Under Defeat HD - Deluxe Edition- Fun and easy Plat. Venetica- - I liked this one. Not the greatest, but it was enjoyable to me. WET- This game is crazy, in a good way. **X-Men Origins: Wolverine- One of the few movie-based games that is actually good. Edit: Venetica was one I played on 360, so my experience was likely different. I didn't encounter many bugs. Edited October 24, 2016 by DamagingRob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyIaris Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 . Gat Out Of Hell has some annoying (flight) mechanics and felt empty compared to IV to me. The Doodle games are short, but not especially interesting. Kingdoms has a pointless grind that will easily take longer than the rest of the game. I've heard nothing but good things about Blood Dragon. Definitely one to try out at some point. Code: Realize is another reverse harem thing, if that bothers you. Most of the plot lines are enjoyable; it's got a pretty good story. I haven't played Amnesia yet, but it's one of the better otome titles I've played. . LBP Karting servers may be shut down, if you care. If they're still up, they apparently only work with the disc version of the game. FFA is a bit dull, but not an awful game overall - just isn't especially Ratchet & Clank-y. Probably quite a bit more enjoyable in multiplayer. Tokyo Jungle is certainly unique. Pretty difficult starting out, but it picks up as you learn what you're doing/unlock better animals. Ah, X-2... well, if nothing else, I can say the class system is interesting. Was a bit too girly for me. Shantae is a fun little platformer. Haven't beaten it yet, but I'd certainly suggest it. Loved the Sly games. Can recommend 1, 2, and 4 - Thieves in Time is the longest/toughest of the lot, but none of them are too bad. Enjoyable stealth platformers, if you don't mind that they're aimed at a younger audience. . FEZ seems to be pretty hit or miss with people. If you're not following a guide, it's a very difficult little puzzler. Gauntlet is fun with others, but nowhere near as enjoyable alone. I'd really suggest trying to leave this for group play if you wouldn't have it for this event. Journey's a beautiful, relaxing little... walking simulator? It's not much of a game from your usual standpoint, but it's very much worth trying out. I'm another one that enjoyed Murdered: Soul Suspect. Sure, it's not fast-paced, and it has a number of flaws, but the story is quite interesting to unravel. Saints Row IV doesn't take itself seriously and I love it for that. If you're a fan of older Saints Row games, you may not enjoy this one - the general consensus seemed to be that they took it too far on the crazy scale. If you're okay with that, go leap tall buildings in a single bound and then squish everything that was in your landing zone. I'd suggest beating IV before Gat Out of Hell, since the plot ties in some. Do you enjoy dying? I hope you enjoy dying. Super Meat Boy gets incredibly challenging towards the end. The way it's set up, deaths aren't a big deal unless you're aiming for the plat. Fun game with some irritating additions. They added side missions that have built in timers for how long they show up on the map - you get penalized for not doing them. I skipped on the plat because it was too annoying trying to find collectibles with the city on high alert and trying to murder me. Woo, Skyrim! Another favorite, and much better with mods. Massive, massive time sink if you're not specifically going for trophies. Easy game to lose yourself wandering around in. A little repetitive if you're used to Oblivion, but still an excellent game. TWD2 wasn't as good as the first, in my opinion. Not bad overall. The Witch and the Hundred Knight: Metallia wrecks the game for some people, and you have to listen to her a lot. The gameplay itself is fun, if a bit simple. Wolf Among Us is easily my favorite telltale game. The story and characters are both well done and engaging, if dark. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MesopithecusUK Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 **snip** There is a trophy on Catlateral for meowing a lot of times, so put your TV on loud and then meow to see how your cats react 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkusT1992 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 If you want to play El Shaddai at the same time period go ahead. I mainly chose BG&E after the conversation in this forum concerning the game, and since a few people might have Valient Hearts planned, I chose that game instead. I might as well see if it's a fine wine like the Sly Cooper trilogy or if it's a disgusting goat cheese left out in sunlight like Jak II. I'm hoping Mass Effect at least has a strong start as I'm curious how the series went from beloved to a crud of an ending in the third game. If you choose Valient Heart I'll include it in my list as well. Yust decide a spot for it. snip Beyond Good & Evil HD: I loved BG&E Dark souls 2: I'll allways recommend a Dark Souls game. But prepare to die a lot especially at the beginning.# Darksiders: This is a mix of Zelda and God of War. Different dungeon where you find items to defeat the boss and reach new ereas with hack n' slash combat. Jak 2: As I said befor a nich game but not as good as 3. Kingdom of Amalur: That's a long one. Hundreds of quests to do but only a few main quests. I had to do like 20 side quests than 1 main quest. And start on hard! You don't want to beat this game twice. Only achievemnt I need on the 360 I have Sword Art: Hollow Fragment and I believe Marcus said he did as well. I'm pretty sure there is an element of online co-operative play so maybe if there is 3 of us we could do some of that as a group? Do you mean the PS4 Version? Because it's called Sword Art Online Re: Hollow Fragment. Without Re it's the Vita version. If you have the PS4 Version I'll add it to my list. So it seems that now, I have four possible matches with others: Super Stardust HD with Stalker, BADLAND with Crimson and Furi and Lords Of The Fallen with Hemiak (if he ends up putting those on his list). I would be in for Lords of the Fallen and maybe Furi too. Saints Row IV doesn't take itself seriously and I love it for that. If you're a fan of older Saints Row games, you may not enjoy this one - the general consensus seemed to be that they took it too far on the crazy scale. If you're okay with that, go leap tall buildings in a single bound and then squish everything that was in your landing zone. I'd suggest beating IV before Gat Out of Hell, since the plot ties in some. Actually I finished this one, Saints Row: The Third and Gat out of Hell on 360 I started Saints Row 2 but the German Version is so cut that I couldn't really enjoy it. We have a black screen with a text saying in this scene is violence as censorship . And I liked the over the top Saints Row games a lot more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oobedoob S Benubi Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I would add both of those games in a heartbeat but I still don't have a ps4. I would be in for Lords of the Fallen and maybe Furi too.Well apparently I misinterpreted Hemiak's backlog with PS4 games and his comment that he would want to play Furi and LotF off of my list for him actually having a PS4...Lords Of The Fallen is still on the top spot of my own PS+-to-play list and I don't mind trying Furi so if you're putting them on your list Markus then so will I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamagingRob Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) -snip- Yeah, I own the digital version, so the status of LBPK's servers never applied to me. Lol. Liked X-2 when it came out, but that was a long time ago. All I can recall, was Yuna and Riku were smoking in that game. And again, I ask, why does no one like Sly 3? ;w; So, tentative list: Jak II Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee HD Dishonored Furi Puppeteer Shadow of the Colossus Muramasa Rebirth Hyperdevotion Noire Rune Factory: Tides of Destiny Mad Max Had to start Jak 2 someday... Might as well be during this event, with all the opinions that were given on it. Oddworld, Dishonored, and Furi were chosen to play them when others in the event are. The rest, I basically went with mostly on time and uniqueness factors(I've played some Neptunia games, but this one is much different. An SRPG, which I don't play much of) The 4 at the top are kind of shortish(I could possibly complete some of them in 3 days), so I wanted to kind of strike a nice balance. Think I've done that with this group, based on Platinum estimate times. Edited October 25, 2016 by DamagingRob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiak Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 Here it is: http://psnprofiles.com/forums/topic/42368-kill-your-completion-again/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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