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the day i feared that would come has happened...


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It’s a shame this happened to you but how do people still get caught out on this? Personally I would immediatly turn off my console, why people still click their trophies and sync them up is beyond me. If you had turned it off and deleted your user profile then synced up again they wouldn’t be on there. I’ve no doubt someone already said this though.

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Honestly, I believe that exceptions need to be made for games where it is well known that hacked trophies can pop through no fault of the player.  

 

I'm no fan of "guilty until proven innocent."  My options are to either (a) stop playing popular games that I paid good money for like RDR or BO2, (b) risk getting flagged as a cheater because I happened to get randomly dropped into a hacked lobby, or (c) go through a long, pain in the ass process of deleting and restoring my profile or even reformatting my console and praying to God that it works before my account gets auto-synched?  I think I'll take a hard pass on all of that, thank you very much. 

 

I've turned in tons of obvious cheaters myself.  I have no problems flagging people who have hacked trophies where the player has to take active steps in order to get them.  No problem.  Flag away.  But in cases where the only game that has questionable trophies is a game where a casual player can just auto-pop trophies by picking up the wrong weapon or being dropped in the wrong lobby shouldn't cause them to get flagged.  I believe in innocent until proven guilty, and flagging someone who happened to get dropped in the wrong lobby just flies in the face of that.  Sure, that means that there might be a small handful of players who might "get away with it", but I'd be willing to bet I can count on one hand the number of players who (a) are trophy hunters, (b) are going to *only* hack trophies for one specific game, and (c) are willing to lie about it.   Of all the accounts I've seen and turned in over the years, I have never once seen a player limit their hacked trophies to one game.   If they're going to go through the effort to get hacked trophies, they are going to go all-out.  Every single player with hacked trophies I have ever seen has had hundreds of bad trophies across dozens of games.  Nobody is going to sit there and go "herp derp i think i'll risk my reputation over a single game from a last gen console."

 

There really should be exceptions for games with known issues like BO2.  Maybe a 3 strikes rule.  If it happens once, you're OK.  Twice....judgement call (leaning towards no unless you have a *really* good explanation).   Three times, *then* flag them, as by that point it becomes obvious they're trying to exploit a loophole. 

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15 minutes ago, The-Man-In-Black said:

Honestly, I believe that exceptions need to be made for games where it is well known that hacked trophies can pop through no fault of the player.  

 

I'm no fan of "guilty until proven innocent."  My options are to either (a) stop playing popular games that I paid good money for like RDR or BO2, (b) risk getting flagged as a cheater because I happened to get randomly dropped into a hacked lobby, or (c) go through a long, pain in the ass process of deleting and restoring my profile or even reformatting my console and praying to God that it works before my account gets auto-synched?  I think I'll take a hard pass on all of that, thank you very much. 

 

I've turned in tons of obvious cheaters myself.  I have no problems flagging people who have hacked trophies where the player has to take active steps in order to get them.  No problem.  Flag away.  But in cases where the only game that has questionable trophies is a game where a casual player can just auto-pop trophies by picking up the wrong weapon or being dropped in the wrong lobby shouldn't cause them to get flagged.  I believe in innocent until proven guilty, and flagging someone who happened to get dropped in the wrong lobby just flies in the face of that.  Sure, that means that there might be a small handful of players who might "get away with it", but I'd be willing to bet I can count on one hand the number of players who (a) are trophy hunters, (b) are going to *only* hack trophies for one specific game, and (c) are willing to lie about it.   Of all the accounts I've seen and turned in over the years, I have never once seen a player limit their hacked trophies to one game.   If they're going to go through the effort to get hacked trophies, they are going to go all-out.  Every single player with hacked trophies I have ever seen has had hundreds of bad trophies across dozens of games.  Nobody is going to sit there and go "herp derp i think i'll risk my reputation over a single game from a last gen console."

 

There really should be exceptions for games with known issues like BO2.  Maybe a 3 strikes rule.  If it happens once, you're OK.  Twice....judgement call (leaning towards no unless you have a *really* good explanation).   Three times, *then* flag them, as by that point it becomes obvious they're trying to exploit a loophole. 

yeah it pissed me off that i got every thing legit in the game except for Big leagues but oh well. im really glad i dont have any CODs in my profile anymore after that. sure i had alot of pain in BO2's SP trophies but meh i got over it. BO2 isn't really a game i would be proud for platting anyway tbh.

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8 hours ago, DARKB1KE said:

I left my ps3 running 24/7 turbo and no hackers popping anything.  It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that I haven't seen a single person in all this time with colored names so I think it might be exaggerated with how much hacking is actually in the game. 

i agree that it would seem that hackers have moved on to bigger and better things...at the time this thread was created I was actually in the middle of testing out the possibility of getting hacked in this game as research in creating a whitelist...i spent weeks playing the MP and you know how many hackers I ran into?...yep, none...this is actually a pretty tough game to hack...treyarch has put in a lot of work to block cfw users...

1 hour ago, The-Man-In-Black said:

nobody is going to sit there and go "herp derp i think i'll risk my reputation over a single game from a last gen console."

i told myself I would stay out of this thread because I don't really care about how people earn their trophies and the op has since hidden his list...the only comment I have is that this wouldn't be the first thread where someone hacked their trophies intentionally and then quickly created a thread to say "help, it was an accident"...and typically these are not people with any other hacked trophies...why people do this and has the op done this?...i agree that a whitelist should be implemented to give benefit of the doubt to legit gamers...my research has shown that this game does occasionally have hackers in public lobbies so it qualifies for whitelisting in my opinion...is there a massive risk of encountering a hacked lobby?...i don't believe there is but wouldn't it suck to be one of the unlucky ones who ends up in such a lobby unintentionally?...

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1 hour ago, ProfBambam55 said:

i agree that it would seem that hackers have moved on to bigger and better things...at the time this thread was created I was actually in the middle of testing out the possibility of getting hacked in this game as research in creating a whitelist...i spent weeks playing the MP and you know how many hackers I ran into?...yep, none...this is actually a pretty tough game to hack...treyarch has put in a lot of work to block cfw users...

i told myself I would stay out of this thread because I don't really care about how people earn their trophies and the op has since hidden his list...the only comment I have is that this wouldn't be the first thread where someone hacked their trophies intentionally and then quickly created a thread to say "help, it was an accident"...and typically these are not people with any other hacked trophies...why people do this and has the op done this?...i agree that a whitelist should be implemented to give benefit of the doubt to legit gamers...my research has shown that this game does occasionally have hackers in public lobbies so it qualifies for whitelisting in my opinion...is there a massive risk of encountering a hacked lobby?...i don't believe there is but wouldn't it suck to be one of the unlucky ones who ends up in such a lobby unintentionally?...

well... with all do respect i still think from this day i didn't intentionally hack the trophy and went "oh my god" but yeah anyone can believe what they want. 

anyway i just wanna say even if i "did" hack it i think i remember that being flagged needed you to have at least 3 hacked trophies and i did all of BO2 Legit. plus i did get the trophy more after when i played the game "for fun" yes i said "for fun". believe it or not i don't care anymore. even pristeged. how did i pristege without ending up in a hacked lobby? simple.  #1 i had luck, #2 if i did spot a hacker/modder i would get off instantly...

 

tbh i don't give 2 shits about this game anymore. things that piss me off is starting a game in 2014 and getting one trophy and then getting the game again after selling it in 2017 then realizing its unobtainable. from the day i got flagged i told myself i would never buy any Call of Duty game even if it's for $0.99 and im never getting a game im not gonna 100% ever in my life. cause yes im a completionist.  

 

in conclusion nobody has evidence of me hacking the trophy or not. not even myself. and do you know what? i don't care if anyone calls me a cheater for 1 simple unobtainable that i still from this day don't believe it intentionally popped it. but whatever. as long as i'm in the leaderboards of this site and playing the obtainables only im good.

 

i just feel sad for the rare people (like me) who had did everything in the game but big leagues just because stupid Actvision closed a service in the game which resulted in something stupid they shouldn't have done.

that's probably why i prefer Battlefield games cause the amount of support they get through the years is incredible considering how old they are.

Battlefield: Bad Company was unobtainable in 2013 or 2014 and got back obtainable in 2015 yet the game is released in 2008. at least EA cares about one of their best-selling franchises unlike Activision does with COD. you're the biggest liar if you think COD games on the PS3 are empty with hackers.

 

ill try and see how the game is as of April 2018. you might be right about that one since its been a year from last time i played the game.

 

overall i don't regret hiding such a trash trophy list with not a good platinum to be proud of anyway. 

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19 hours ago, ProfBambam55 said:

i agree that it would seem that hackers have moved on to bigger and better things...at the time this thread was created I was actually in the middle of testing out the possibility of getting hacked in this game as research in creating a whitelist...i spent weeks playing the MP and you know how many hackers I ran into?...yep, none...this is actually a pretty tough game to hack...treyarch has put in a lot of work to block cfw users...

i told myself I would stay out of this thread because I don't really care about how people earn their trophies and the op has since hidden his list...the only comment I have is that this wouldn't be the first thread where someone hacked their trophies intentionally and then quickly created a thread to say "help, it was an accident"...and typically these are not people with any other hacked trophies...why people do this and has the op done this?...i agree that a whitelist should be implemented to give benefit of the doubt to legit gamers...my research has shown that this game does occasionally have hackers in public lobbies so it qualifies for whitelisting in my opinion...is there a massive risk of encountering a hacked lobby?...i don't believe there is but wouldn't it suck to be one of the unlucky ones who ends up in such a lobby unintentionally?...

 

Oh, I've seen it more times than I can count.  The excuses I saw on sites like whywasibanned when that was a thing could keep me entertained for hours.  This is my own personal experience, but most of the time the people who tried to claim it was an "accident" also tried to hack about 476 games and started complaining once they realized that the hack was blatantly obvious, or they got called out on their bullshit when they tried to claim that their hacked trophies were legit.  

 

Keep in mind that we are talking about a game that's over half a decade old on a last gen system, where the trophies aren't all that difficult to begin with, in a game where it is possible (exceedingly rare, but still possible) to end up with one or more hacked trophies through no fault of your own.   Any serious completionists out there that care about their completion percentage either never played these games anyway or completed them years ago.  None of the games that would deserve to be on a "whitelist" are even on current-gen systems.   I'd be willing to bet that I could count on one hand the total number of people who would take advantage of the loophole to "get away with it", and to be honest I'd rather see a (literal) handful of people "get away with it" than to see a serious trophy hunter get flagged because they decided to pop in an old game for a bit and just got really unlucky, and I believe in giving an otherwise-legitimate player the benefit of the doubt until I see a reason not to. 

 

Edited by The-Man-In-Black
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On 4/2/2018 at 1:07 PM, Nitro said:

You're forgetting Modern Warfare 2. That and W@W are the worst.

 

Hackers in MW2 doesn't give you trophies.

 

WaW and BO2 seems to be the worst when it comes to trophies.

 

People watch BO2, just saying.

 

Tbh, WaW is more of a thing I report when you get caught for something else. It's like all the remaining all pop at the same time kind of stuff.

Edited by MMDE
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2 hours ago, The-Man-In-Black said:

I'd rather see a (literal) handful of people "get away with it" than to see a serious trophy hunter get flagged because they decided to pop in an old game for a bit and just got really unlucky, and I believe in giving an otherwise-legitimate player the benefit of the doubt until I see a reason not to. 

as the "benefit of the doubt guy" who researched the crap out of this topic and made every effort to have a white list implemented despite having a profile  completely unaffected by hackers, I think it's safe to say we agree but...

 

what if I told you that on ps3 when you are the victim of a hacker unlocking your trophies in black ops 2 that the message "achievements unlocking" doesn't appear on the screen of the victim?...would that merit considering doubt?...as I said, I would prefer to avoid this topic as the op has since hidden his game and appears to be quite defensive...delving into past matters or analyzing this thread's contents would be of no benefit to anyone...i would even suggest just locking it and moving on...

 

edit : if you'd like to skim through the white list thread it can be found here...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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6 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

as the "benefit of the doubt guy" who researched the crap out of this topic and made every effort to have a white list implemented despite having a profile  completely unaffected by hackers, I think it's safe to say we agree but...

 

what if I told you that on ps3 when you are the victim of a hacker unlocking your trophies in black ops 2 that the message "achievements unlocking" doesn't appear on the screen of the victim?...would that merit considering doubt?...as I said, I would prefer to avoid this topic as the op has since hidden his game and appears to be quite defensive...delving into past matters or analyzing this thread's contents would be of no benefit to anyone...i would even suggest just locking it and moving on...

I think it's a good conversation to have in general, regardless of the actions or situation of the OP or any other player-specific circumstances.  From what I've read, there are apparently a handful of games where, under some circumstances, a casual player may end up having all his trophies auto-pop because he ended up in the wrong lobby or ended up picking up a weapon dropped by a hacker.   And it's not like games like Dark Souls, BO2, or RDR are obscure or unpopular. 

It would be nice to see a "benefit of the doubt" policy implemented.  The first time....sure, you'll get the benefit of the doubt unless there's a compelling reason not to (such as having hacked trophies in other games).    The second time is pushing it.  I'd say you have to come up with a compelling reason to explain how you really just got that unlucky in two separate games and avoid getting flagged, especially if the timestamp is relatively close.   The third time?  Yeah, now you're just hunting for hacked trophies.  Here's your flag.   I think the mods of the site are plenty smart enough to use common sense to determine who does and doesn't deserve a flag.  

 

Full Disclosure:  I own BO2.  I do not have all the trophies for it, but I do have all the base-game multiplayer.  On rare occasions, I do occasionally jump into the game and play a couple of rounds on my PS3.   I'm not going to stop playing games I paid good money for on the off-chance that my trophies may auto-pop.  And if I do get unlucky enough to end up in a hacked lobby, I'm not going to go out of my way to delete and recreate my profile, or reformat my PS3, or whatever.   I hunt trophies for my own personal satisfaction, and not to have a dick-waving contest over them.  I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks of my trophy list and if it were to happen to me, anyone who calls me a cheater over it can fuck right off.
 

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1 hour ago, The-Man-In-Black said:

Full Disclosure... 

I think there are better threads to have this conversation but that's just personal opinion...

 

since we're already in full swing in this thread and doing the full disclosure thing we'll, here's mine...i have multiple ps3s and one of them a specific model that I purchased while working on the white list thread...i wanted to be 100% on how mod menus worked for games that people were claiming had hackers unwillingly pop their trophies for them...i didn't trust some random dudes on the internet so with the guidance of a tech savvy friend, I jailbroke my newly purchased console myself (which is why I bought it in the first place)...i was able to test out the latest online mod menus available at the time on alt accounts for several games that were in question,  including black ops 2...

 

now, I've always been a legit gamer and only used the console to pop my own trophies (or not pop them -  I found out that some games have auto-popping hacker myths) which I was able to successfully remove...i haven't used the cfw console for anything but testing and I was incredibly paranoid of having any kind of ban against me by sony as it's pretty risky stuff...i have to admit though, it was kind of fun figuring out all the tech stuff that I had been previously oblivious to and some of the things the menus can do is pretty neat to check out...

 

I would agree with the "I like to play whatever, whenever and as long as I'm playing legit it's really nobody's business but mine how i view my trophy list"...although the leaderboards here are of very little concern to me, I have to admit that I'd be pretty annoyed if I had to go through the flag process or was branded as anything but a legit player due to some idiot hacker...it'd ruffle my feathers even more if getting hacked affected parts of my profile, left me unable to join gaming sessions, or use site features normally...

 

if it did happen that someday someone with some form of mod menu started dinging my trophies for me in a public lobby, i think i probably would go as far as trying to delete/recreate my user to avoid hacked trophies as I'd rather earn my trophies legit or not at all...it's just a personal philosophy thing...if someone decides to keep them on their profile and doesn't mind the repercussions here or elsewhere, then that's up to them...to each their own, aye?...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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But the point is there shouldn't *be* repercussions for games where there is a legitimate possibility of a casual player getting his trophies auto-popped through no fault of their own.    There should be some form of a whitelist for games like BO2 where this could happen.   We both agree on that.  Yes, in theory, a cheater *could* go through the effort of getting into a hacked lobby (My understanding is that they're exceedingly rare enough where it would probably be easier just to play the game legitimately than it would be to find a hacked lobby) and then claiming their trophies are legitimate.  But I think cases like that would be so exceedingly rare as to be statistically insignificant, and I think it would be better to let the occasional cheater "get away with one" than to flag an otherwise legitimate player.  Regarding the leaderboards, if someone is so bad that they have to hack BO2, then I can guarantee they're nowhere near good enough to impact the leaderboards anyway without resorting to hacking a bunch of other trophies as well. 

I just don't see a legitimate reason for not creating a whitelist for these type of situations.  I would think that "Hey, we know it can happen and we're not going to flag you for it.  Just be careful" is a better message to put out there than "we're going to treat you as a cheater without proof". 

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20 minutes ago, The-Man-In-Black said:

... 

right...but there isn't a white list...i can assure you, I and many others have voiced this opinion appropriately and done our best to represent the legit community on this one...and unfortunately, despite all the support and unanimous votes in favour of change, a white list is just not happening...honestly, I doubt it ever will...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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On 3/4/2018 at 6:58 PM, The-Man-In-Black said:

But the point is there shouldn't *be* repercussions for games where there is a legitimate possibility of a casual player getting his trophies auto-popped through no fault of their own.    There should be some form of a whitelist for games like BO2 where this could happen.   We both agree on that.  Yes, in theory, a cheater *could* go through the effort of getting into a hacked lobby (My understanding is that they're exceedingly rare enough where it would probably be easier just to play the game legitimately than it would be to find a hacked lobby) and then claiming their trophies are legitimate.  But I think cases like that would be so exceedingly rare as to be statistically insignificant, and I think it would be better to let the occasional cheater "get away with one" than to flag an otherwise legitimate player.  Regarding the leaderboards, if someone is so bad that they have to hack BO2, then I can guarantee they're nowhere near good enough to impact the leaderboards anyway without resorting to hacking a bunch of other trophies as well. 

I just don't see a legitimate reason for not creating a whitelist for these type of situations.  I would think that "Hey, we know it can happen and we're not going to flag you for it.  Just be careful" is a better message to put out there than "we're going to treat you as a cheater without proof". 

29694426_10204688379205282_4927166819610

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35 minutes ago, Xensid02 said:

private message... 

am I the only one that finds sharing private messages distasteful?...likely you had no foul intention by posting it but i would recommend just paraphrasing instead...it's just a privacy respect thing imo...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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56 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

am I the only one that finds sharing private messages distasteful?...likely you had no foul intention by posting it but i would recommend just paraphrasing instead...it's just a privacy respect thing imo...

It is not a private message.

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1 hour ago, ProfBambam55 said:

am I the only one that finds sharing private messages distasteful?...likely you had no foul intention by posting it but i would recommend just paraphrasing instead...it's just a privacy respect thing imo...

It's just a screenshot from another public thread.

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On 4/4/2018 at 8:14 AM, MMDE said:

Hackers in MW2 doesn't give you trophies.

I'm afraid you're mistaken my friend. There have been people online who have gotten their plats popped by modders.

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17 minutes ago, Nitro said:

I'm afraid you're mistaken my friend. There have been people online who have gotten their plats popped by modders.

Yeah I hear this a lot, I've seen videos where people just get every single trophy in the game by being in a public multiplayer game - hell it happened to a good friend who still plays it today. CoD is pretty known for this in general, Activision doesn't care it seems.

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1 hour ago, Nitro said:

I'm afraid you're mistaken my friend. There have been people online who have gotten their plats popped by modders.

 

If you're trying to say I'm mistaken, then do back it up. Give me examples, show me the software they use etc. I'm fairly certain I'm not mistaken, because I've looked at literally thousands of MW2 trophy lists where the trophies pop too fast. There are 3 things I find.

 

  1. More than 99% of them are save file users where all the star related trophies pop at the same time, or enemy intel out of order etc. And yes, this is more than 99% of the time and is not online hackers, they've just used a downloaded save. They are lying to you if they tell you otherwise.
  2. Edited timestamps where the star related trophies appear like they would had they all popped at the same time, but the time between them is a lot more. They've just artificially used a real trophy list of someone who either cheated the game or popped two star related trophies at the same time and then added time between the trophies.
  3. I've seen like 3-5 cases or something, that's not even 0.1%, where more than just the star related trophies all pop at the same time. This is what is done through a mod menu. It's so extremely rare that this is not something that happens to people online. They are the ones who run the mod menu and pop the trophies for themselves. People who has looked into what is available through mod menus in MW2 has not seen anything about popping trophies for someone else. That's not to say there's no online hackers in MW2, there's plenty, they just can't pop your trophies for you.

 

 

1 hour ago, RiZing_Prodigy said:

Yeah I hear this a lot, I've seen videos where people just get every single trophy in the game by being in a public multiplayer game - hell it happened to a good friend who still plays it today. CoD is pretty known for this in general, Activision doesn't care it seems.

 

Yes, it's pretty well known that this is a thing for most CoD games, but it's not all the games. People just say that is what happened in MW2 when they are asked, because they don't want people to know they just used a downloaded save. I remember all the drama with FIFA 09 too, same stuff. The two problem games are BO2 and WaW. So of all the CoD games, I've only experience with getting reports about this stuff in those two games, and those two games I've dealt with thousands of cases.

Edited by MMDE
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7 hours ago, MMDE said:

 

If you're trying to say I'm mistaken, then do back it up. Give me examples, show me the software they use etc. I'm fairly certain I'm not mistaken, because I've looked at literally thousands of MW2 trophy lists where the trophies pop too fast. There are 3 things I find.

 

  1. More than 99% of them are save file users where all the star related trophies pop at the same time, or enemy intel out of order etc. And yes, this is more than 99% of the time and is not online hackers, they've just used a downloaded save. They are lying to you if they tell you otherwise.
  2. Edited timestamps where the star related trophies appear like they would had they all popped at the same time, but the time between them is a lot more. They've just artificially used a real trophy list of someone who either cheated the game or popped two star related trophies at the same time and then added time between the trophies.
  3. I've seen like 3-5 cases or something, that's not even 0.1%, where more than just the star related trophies all pop at the same time. This is what is done through a mod menu. It's so extremely rare that this is not something that happens to people online. They are the ones who run the mod menu and pop the trophies for themselves. People who has looked into what is available through mod menus in MW2 has not seen anything about popping trophies for someone else. That's not to say there's no online hackers in MW2, there's plenty, they just can't pop your trophies for you.

How would I possibly know what software they use? All I know is that I still play MW2 to this day and I have come across 2 games over the past few years and what has happened is it has frozen our characters in place and it came up with green text reading "Unlocking achievements" (Mind you, the super jump and turning off and on different mods was a dead giveaway that there was a modder, but whatever).

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2 hours ago, Nitro said:

How would I possibly know what software they use? All I know is that I still play MW2 to this day and I have come across 2 games over the past few years and what has happened is it has frozen our characters in place and it came up with green text reading "Unlocking achievements" (Mind you, the super jump and turning off and on different mods was a dead giveaway that there was a modder, but whatever).

 

This does not reflect my findings, whatsoever, and I've gone through everyone who has 100% for the game. As I said, found like 3 cases that looks like mod menu. :S I'm kinda curious how they do the green text in someone else's game, but I don't think it actually unlocks all their trophies.

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2 hours ago, Nitro said:

How would I possibly know what software they use? All I know is that I still play MW2 to this day and I have come across 2 games over the past few years and what has happened is it has frozen our characters in place and it came up with green text reading "Unlocking achievements" (Mind you, the super jump and turning off and on different mods was a dead giveaway that there was a modder, but whatever).

 

I went onto some shady forums and was looking for some of this stuff. Came over a video with over 125k views and I noticed his username. He was already flagged on the site for a couple of games, but here we go:

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/175-call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2/YT-Chris48x?order=date

That's what someone who has popped their trophies with a mod menu looks like. I know he did it to himself, and he has done this in several other games. Yeah, nothing like all the stars all popping at the same time, which is more than 99.9% of all the reports for MW2.

 

I notice the star related trophies pop in a different order than what save file users do too.

Edited by MMDE
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Personally I think this trophy, as a unique case, should be treated in the same way as a known glitch unlocking a trophy before it should.

 

If other trophies were unlocked too in that session (especially like half the darn list lol), at the same time that's different and probably should stay flagged as it's impossible to tell if it's on purpose, but if the person has clearly done the whole game legit aside from an unobtainable unlocking which is KNOWN to be unlocked via random hackers via random chance I say it should just be let slide entirely, not removing it or flagging it or anything, treat it as if it weren't unobtainable. Heck, even if proven they got into a lobby on purpose for that 1 trophy I frankly wouldn't care either.

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