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Suggestion - White List for Trophies / Games?

White Listing...   143 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we have a white list for games like the ones described in the OP?

    • To White List...
    • NOT to White List...
    • Undecided/Divided Opinion...
    • Couldn't Care Less...

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231 posts in this topic

I'm all for the suggestion due to flags labeling people regardless how you explain their purpose to be, which incites toxic behaviour in certain parts of the community. But @ProfBambam55 shouldn't this be a level higher in the forum tree?

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I'm for this but as said above, some people might have not had this happen and just cheated but claim this happened.

 

also what about need for speed undercover being whitelisted?

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Posted (edited)

No idea about forum tree, sorry...the point is that yes, hackers could go nuts and exploit this (which they likely already have) as much as they'd like but, just as things are now, their trophies wouldn't affect the leaderboards...the difference is that the site would hide the trophies not the player and no strike to their profile so although a minor change it would be a positive one with regards to legit players...a hacker will most surely have more than one game not on this list...a legit player will likely not...

 

Could you expand on need for speed plz so I can add to list?...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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Posted (edited)

Not the game, the illegitimate trophies...the victim mentality is just for players who happen to end up in a hacked lobby...why should they have to hide games and have a strike against them?...they are just playing as the developers intended...think of it this way...instead of a flag and people having a strike and to hide game...the site does it for them...if the goal of flags is to remove implausible time stamps from the leaderboards then this still meets that criteria...1 hacker in a game can affect hundreds of people's trophies and I'm certain legit players outnumber hackers...play gta iv mp for a few hours if you're in doubt...why shouldn't we have a system that gives the majority the benefit of the doubt in an odd number of cases?...and especially if there is no way to prove their intent...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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2 minutes ago, FOX said:

What's up with this victim mentality lately that portrays people who participate in dispute threads as if they're some evil monsters feeding on the poor souls of these hacked people? It's a very rare thing to happen and it dealt with each time. There is no crusade, there is no we-are-out-to-get-you squad. Above mentioned post is true. White list these games and you give a free pass to hackers. Make the game not count on the leaderboard and you punish so much more people who did do it legitemately.

 

Considering the disputes and the flag system follows the "you are guilty until proven innocent" logic, by definition there is a we-are-out-to-get-you squad.

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, ars said:

 

Considering the disputes and the flag system follows the "you are guilty until proven innocent" logic, by definition there is a we-are-out-to-get-you squad.

I don't know what kind of weed you're smoking, but that isn't logical at all. People are granted a fair chance to have their say, nobody is holding them at gunpoint of power hungry to ban these evil people for life and protect the purity of our almighty leaderboards. You're blowing things out of proportion. 
And yes, the players should have a strike, because there is no way to prove if these people hacked it or not. Which is why they can have three strikes. It's unfortunate, but it's the best way. I'm on the fence of white listing certain trophies.

Edited by FOX
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I'm in favor of this.  I'd even go a little farther and just consider this stuff in the same category as glitches, since you can just randomly stumble upon it without even trying. So, I'd prefer no flagging at all, but this is a good step in the right direction.

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Posted (edited)

Guys this isn't about revolutionizing the justice system it's about giving benefit of the doubt to legit players on a few games...I happen to think they are a majority...if there was a surefire way to prove innocence/guilt this thread wouldn't exist...the goal of the thread is to present a new idea and see if the community agrees...can we save the personal insults for pm's plz?...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, ars said:

 

And there is no way to prove you didn't hack your legitimate timestamps or not, is all I'm saying. There are way more games where this happens than there are strikes allowed, too.

 

Frankly, the "purity" of the leaderboards is the only thing this has going for it, and as I've pointed out the leaderboards will not be or become "pure" regardless you had the flagging system in place or not. It just cleans them up a little. Since a flag will label you on the site I think it's only fair to give the benefit of the doubt in a situation, where collateral damage is extremely likely.

 

PSNP is in a position to decide what counts for the leaderboards, but they are not in a position to decide what and how people play. You shouldn't punish a random gamer for playing what they want. I'll also repeat once again, PSNP allows adding any PSN account on earth to the database provided they're public, and then flagging and publicly shaming it. The user has no say over whether someone forcefully manipulated his instance, has no say whether he was added to PSNP, and finally has no say when he is flagged on the site.

 

You don't see a problem in this?

Yes, I agree, so we have to take a default stance, which is the most logical. Firstly, the purpose is not to make the leaderboard pure in a perfect sense. It's to make the leaderboard as pure as possible, which I fully support. Nothing wrong with having a leaderboard like that. Colleteral damage is a fair price to pay instead of opening the floodgates for cheaters. It's not the end of the world when someone is wrongly flagged and it's not the point either.

 

A wrongly flagged person can make a dispute thread and convince us to he is in the right

A wrongly flagged person who got hacked still has illegitemate timestamps, regardless of being wrongly flagged or not. 

 

Psnprofiles does not decide how people play in the slighest. You can hack, you can cheat, you can smash your PS3 or PS4 in the hope that a trophy will pop, it does not matter. But if you are caught slipping, you are reported. Absolutely fine. 

 

The user indeed has no say, but we can not know for sure if the user is speaking the truth unless some concrete evidence is given to us. No concrete evidence? Well, that's too bad. The flag will remain and you can hide the game. You learn a lesson and you're still on the leaderboard. It's much better than saying "we believe you on your word" because that's not how this works. Time and time again people have shown in the dispute threads that more often than not, the disputers are lying through their teeth, to a shameful extent even and these are the majority of people. I'm not taking anyone on their word and psnprofiles shouldn't either and they also shouldn't whitelist games. Certain trophies? Perhaps. 

 

There is rarely a public shaming going on and it's strongly condemned by the creator of this site and by the moderators who do a good job, really. Eleborate on PSN profiles allowing PSN accounts to be added though, I don't understand that. 

Edited by FOX
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I think this is a good idea, if they can hide them they don't count for the leaderboards anyway. So if they're hacked or not, it won't affect the leaderboards so a hacker has no benefit of this. If he hacks another game that is not on the whitelist he will still be punished so hacking will have no benefit at all. And this would then also save a lot of honest players because i read a lot of these disputes with these games in them. 

 

So to summarize, this would not benefit hackers, this would save players from having their profile removed incorrectly

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2 minutes ago, Lars said:

I think this is a good idea, if they can hide them they don't count for the leaderboards anyway. So if they're hacked or not, it won't affect the leaderboards so a hacker has no benefit of this. If he hacks another game that is not on the whitelist he will still be punished so hacking will have no benefit at all. And this would then also save a lot of honest players because i read a lot of these disputes with these games in them. 

 

So to summarize, this would not benefit hackers, this would save players from having their profile removed incorrectly

A hacker can benefit from this as he or she would be able to hide a game with no strike. 

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1 minute ago, Lars said:

I think this is a good idea, if they can hide them they don't count for the leaderboards anyway. So if they're hacked or not, it won't affect the leaderboards so a hacker has no benefit of this. If he hacks another game that is not on the whitelist he will still be punished so hacking will have no benefit at all. And this would then also save a lot of honest players because i read a lot of these disputes with these games in them. 

 

So to summarize, this would not benefit hackers, this would save players from having their profile removed incorrectly

The problem is that youll have to catch them to make the game not count. Even when caught though theyll have no repercussions meaning theres no disincentive for anyone to do it. 

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Posted (edited)

So is the implication with these games that there are more hackers than legit players?...remember we're only talking about the games in the potential list above and only certain trophies in some cases...I'm convinced hackers are the minority...and no you would not have to catch them...I'm suggesting an automatic removal if site programming allows it...this is only about auto-popping trophies in hacked lobbies...save file exploits and cfw users would undergo the usual flagging process...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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3 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

So is the implication with these games that there are more hackers than legit players?...remember we're only talking about the games in the potential list above and only certain trophies in some cases...I'm convinced hackers are the minority...and no you would not have to catch them...I'm suggesting an automatic removal if site programming allows it...this is only about auto-popping trophies in hacked lobbies...save file exploits and cfw users would undergo the usual flagging process...

You being convinced that hackers are in the minority doesnt make it so. There is no hard data to prove either scenario. Maybe im cynical but I dont believe that everyone is such a poor little victim that dindu nuffin.

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IMO you shouldn't whitelist certain games.Either whitelist every game with lobbies or none.I never understood why people would hack a lobby and give strangers free trophies or in-game money or increase their rankings or anything.As far as i know SONY doesn't ban accounts with impossible trophy timestamps (it could be a reason for a hacker to do the above and troll others).And i don't care if a game is more popular so there are more chances for a hacker to appear,since their motives are unknown.For all i know they could organise sessions and pop trophies like we create boosting sessions

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Posted (edited)

I'm trying to understand why this would open flood gates...I don't get it...let's say I start a new profile and hack all the trophies from the list above...I'm still level 0 with 0 trophies and no stats on the leaderboards, no?...am I misunderstanding how hidden trophies work?...

 

Fortunately we now know which games can have this problem so we don't need to whitelist every game that has online trophies...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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Hard to say. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt if it happened in one of these games. As written in the first post, maybe it's a first for them and they either thought it's how it should be or didn't know how to prevent adding the trophies to their account. Afterwards, the player should look it up and know how to prevent it by backing up their savegame frequently, syncing trophies on a regular basis and deleting the account from their console without syncing the trophies once it happens a second time. If it happens again and they still add the trophies to their account, I wouldn't show leniency.

 

If it happens in one of the whitelisted games, it shouldn't count towards the 3 flagged games-rule. They still need to hide it to return to the leaderboards, but can have two more flagged games and still be part of the leaderboards.

If it happens again in one of the whitelisted games, I'd no longer give them the benefit of the doubt. They are then either doing it on purpose or didn't do their research after getting the trophies unlocked just like that for the first time. I. e. it's then their fault and they should be punished for it. The 2nd game should count towards the 3 flagged games-rule, they can have one more flagged game and still appear on the leaderboards.

If it happens a 3rd time in a whitelisted game, said person just doesn't care or does it on purpose, the flags for all three games should count towards the 3 flagged games-rule, resulting in their permanent removal from the leaderboards.

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3 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

I'm trying to understand why this would open flood gates...I don't get it...let's say I start a new profile and hack all the trophies from the list above...I'm still level 0 with 0 trophies and no stats on the leaderboards, no?...am I misunderstanding how hidden trophies work?...

 

Fortunately we now know which games can have this problem so we don't need to whitelist every game that has online trophies...

So legit gamers who earned these trophies should have it count for nothing? ok.

As has already been said, if you whitelist these games there is NO reason to do it legit anymore, and then you will start having threads to whitelist other games until hacking no longer has any consequences whatsoever.

The domino effect 

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Posted (edited)

No legit gamers stats will remain intact...the white list is only for implausible time stamps, not for every gamer...think of it as an alternative to the dispute process if you wish...not sure about domino effect...likely whitelisting will go unnoticed...hence why I tried to focus on the legit gamer in the op and not the hacker...

Edited by ProfBambam55
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