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Game of Thrones S7 Discussion *SPOILERS*

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The send off wasn't very good the more I think about it.

 

A: He could have compromised Sansa and pointed out that she lied under oath.

 

B: He could have asked for a trial by combat.

 

C: He could have brought up Sansa's marriages to illegitamize her authority.

 

The groveling was terribly acted, too.

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My Sundays now. Come back GoT.

 

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Edited by StarFang7
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12 hours ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

A: He could have compromised Sansa and pointed out that she lied under oath.

 

This is something I questioned highly to my co-worker.  

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On 8/2/2017 at 3:01 PM, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

That theory is utter nonsense and proposes that Dany is half Stark and that Ned somehow managed to hide TWO babies. Just rubbish.

 

Dany does, technically. The last Targaryen monarch was Aerys and she is his daughter where's Jon would be Rhaegar's son and second in line after her. But in general a male heir takes precedence over a female heir even if the female heir is of direct descent so Jon might just jump the curve so to speak and he'd be the first in line.

 

Addendum: while I thought the scene between Sansa and Bran was well done there was no reason for Bran to bring up that horrible wedding and Sansa's rape. Being the three eyed raven doesn't translate into social ineptitude; and since he knows everything maybe he should have told her about the fact that Littlefinger lead to her dad's head getting chopped off.

 

On 8/2/2017 at 7:11 PM, MMDE said:

 

If we follow male descendant line, then Rhaegar is Aerys son, and Jon is Aerys son, Dany is just first in line female descendant. This is why I ask though. :P 

 

On 8/2/2017 at 8:53 PM, novemberrx said:

I was actually wondering this myself as well. According to a wiki on awoiaf.westeros.org:

"In 171 AC, after the death of King Baelor I Targaryen, the succession of the throne was not clear. Since Baelor had not appointed an heir, there were some lords and smallfolk who felt the Iron Throne should pass to the eldest of his sisters, Princess Daena Targaryen. However, other recalled the troubled time when Rhaenyra Targaryen sat the Iron Throne. The Dance was part of the reason why Prince Viserys Targaryen, Baelor's uncle, was chosen to ascend the throne over the wild Daena.[14] By choosing Viserys over Daena, women have came after all men in Targaryen succession since the Dance.[15]"

 

And the Dance (of the Dragons) was "a war of succession between Aegon II and his half-sister Rhaenyra over their father Viserys I's throne, the war was fought from 129 AC to 131 AC."  So based on this, I guess Jon would have a stronger claim. But I don't know how much this matters in the TV series though, so... yeah.

 

Unless I misunderstood, I think I was right. They say it in the second half of the last episode. They say Jon Snow is the rightful heir to the iron throne.

 

But lovely with more incest, just like real life royal families.

Edited by MMDE
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I hope this isn't how the books turn out. Zombie dragon? Fucking stupid.

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6 minutes ago, damon8r351 said:

I hope this isn't how the books turn out. Zombie dragon? Fucking stupid.

 

If the dead was not a threat to the dragons the fight would have been over pretty quickly. Now the wall has crumbled, and the threat is way more real. Cercei noticed the missing dragon, and so she has some hope, while she'll get a massive surprise in the end.

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5 hours ago, StarFang7 said:

My Sundays now. Come back GoT.

pretty much 😓

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On 9/1/2017 at 9:06 AM, The_Apex_Badger said:

Sansa and Arya tricked us.... didn't know it was that kind of show and it isn't.

 

No, the fighting wasn't faked. Arya really did believe Sansa would betray Jon; Sansa really did send Brienne away out of fear she would side with Arya (since they have so much in common) if having to pick between the two. 

 

But she eventually wised up. I base my thoughts here on this comment from Sansa at Littlefinger's end: "I am a slow learner, but I do learn." 

 

She also must have consulted with Brandon before the meeting, even though it wasn't shown,, or how would she know Littlefinger's betrayal of Eddard? 

 

 

My complaints this season, though... 

They are shoving all the reunions together. They should be fun but they are rushed. It's like being given a wedding cake and being expected to enjoy eating all of it in one sitting. And then you end up with all this one-on-one reunion dialog between groups and then the big big action scene. 

 

Also with all the fast traveling... If we are just fast forwarding through time, okay, fine, but then why isn't Cersei showing yet? 

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I thought the actor who plays Bran revealed that the deleted scene was Sansa finally consulting Bran about everything that happened. At least according to this article:

 

http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/30/game-of-thrones-finale-deleted-scene-reveals-key-conversation-between-bran-and-sansa-6890537/

 

So, essentially, the scenes where Sansa and Arya were at each other's throats were real. Littlefinger had successfully manipulated the situation so as to cause a rift between the sisters. However, just prior to the trial, Sansa finally had the sense to knock on Bran's door and ask him wtf is going on. TBH, I'm glad this scene got deleted as it made the twist of Baelish getting accused all the more a surprise. As for Baelish requesting a trial by combat - is this a custom in the North? Sure, we've seen trial by combat's in the Eyrie and King's Landing but never the North. I just assumed the Lord or Lady of Winterfell's ruling was final and that's that. Otherwise, why didn't the person who abandoned the Night's Watch in episode 1 of season 1 request a TbC before getting beheaded by Ned Stark.

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Because deserting the Night's Watch is a clear and cut crime there is no room for innocence but the accusations against LF, there was doubt. Did everyone simply buy that Bran can see everything that ever happened? is a world that was low fantasy and skeptical of magic so quick to just buy whatever we the audience know? that's one thing I felt was missing this season. The show runners rushed things to get the characters on equal footing with the viewers.

 

It wasn't a surprise half of everyone guessed it. They're deleting critical scenes for no reason it's fucked up.

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On 09/04/2017 at 10:03 AM, SolarCat02 said:

 

No, the fighting wasn't faked. Arya really did believe Sansa would betray Jon; Sansa really did send Brienne away out of fear she would side with Arya (since they have so much in common) if having to pick between the two. 

 

But she eventually wised up. I base my thoughts here on this comment from Sansa at Littlefinger's end: "I am a slow learner, but I do learn." 

 

She also must have consulted with Brandon before the meeting, even though it wasn't shown,, or how would she know Littlefinger's betrayal of Eddard? 

 

 

My complaints this season, though... 

They are shoving all the reunions together. They should be fun but they are rushed. It's like being given a wedding cake and being expected to enjoy eating all of it in one sitting. And then you end up with all this one-on-one reunion dialog between groups and then the big big action scene. 

 

Also with all the fast traveling... If we are just fast forwarding through time, okay, fine, but then why isn't Cersei showing yet? 

 

No insult intended, but I don't see how your justification has merit when you mention a deleted scene and only summarize the poorly explained plot/reasoning.

 

Your version, however, is the only one to accept as it is the only possible scenario left and it is what happened. Anyways, this will be moot if they explain things in the beginning of S8.

Edited by The_Apex_Badger
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Nope.

 

It's widely accepted that the directors make ridiculous decisions and create plot sinkholes....

 

It's fans who fill in the blanks and use book knowledge which make a problem for those trying to understand Got from just the show.... again the setup here was, at best, rushed.

 

Need I mention, there was a deleted scene that has been mentioned several times now.... and iiterally the one that would have avoided this. So.... this argument has no merit, unless everyone must now watch all deleted scenes and hunt for the actual story details/explanations.

 

Also, no to the above.

Edited by The_Apex_Badger
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On 9/7/2017 at 10:17 AM, The_Apex_Badger said:

 

when you mention a deleted scene and only summarize the poorly explained plot/reasoning.

 

I don't base it on a deleted scene. I figured out she must have consulted Brandon before I had learned about the deleted scene. You want a longer version of my reasoning? Fair enough. :)

 

Sansa's comment, "I am a slow learner, but I do learn," is from the actual show as it originally aired. Go watch again if you like, you will hear her comment. :)

 

If she hadn't consulted Brandon in advance, how would she know that:

- Baelish had betrayed her mother

- Baelish had betrayed her father

- Baelish had given her aunt the poison to kill her husband

- Baelish had convinced her aunt to write her mother that the Lannisters had administered the poison

 

If she was going to learn these things without Brandon, she would have been more likely to learn them in King's Landing with all its court intrigue rather than in Winterfell. And yet Sansa certainly trusted Baelish when she agreed to marry Ramsey, because if you recall her own gut feelings at the time said no and she said as much to Baelish... But she let him talk her into it with his standardly sneaky "You certainly have a choice but consider this..." and so she couldn't have known the rest. 

 

By the time of the distrust of Arya she certainly knew enough to distrust him... He tried to kiss her in spite of being married to her aunt, killed her aunt, talked her into the Bolton Mistake... But she would not have known as fact EVERYTHING that she ultimately accurately accused Lord Baelish of doing. Nobody in Winterfell would have known them EXCEPT Bran. Some of it was even a surprise to the viewer.

 

I haven't seen the deleted scene, but from what I have heard about it the scene is just Sansa knocking on Bran's door and asking for help. I like that they are finally using Bran's knowledge, it was driving me crazy that he wasn't getting involved...

But I personally think the show was better without the deleted scene.  Again, my opinion, your mileage may vary, but those are my two cents. ;)

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You wrote all of that for nothing. You had to mention a deleted scene and it looks like you forgot what you're talking aout.

 

Basically, you think everyone thinks like you, interprets the same things like you etc..

 

As I've said, you've already nullified your position by mentioning a deleted scene and now using your own reasoning as the way it went down. Sure, one can infer many, many things..... unfortunately you're just defending bad writing.

 

Anyways, you're not going to change anyone's opinion, it certainly looks like the majority feel that LF was removed abruptly.

 

You can have your mental gymastics and your direct access errors, I'll just go with the truth.

 

It's still  a good show, so no need to get upset.

Edited by The_Apex_Badger
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I am legitimately confused and I'm not even sure why I am commenting but:

@SolarCat02didn't mention a deleted scene, but based his/her reasoning on what happened in the show on Sunday (or whatever day they saw the show).

@Miles_Warren mentioned a deleted scene, which is the post below SolarCat's:

On 9/4/2017 at 10:46 AM, Miles_Warren said:

I thought the actor who plays Bran revealed that the deleted scene was Sansa finally consulting Bran about everything that happened. At least according to this article:

 

http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/30/game-of-thrones-finale-deleted-scene-reveals-key-conversation-between-bran-and-sansa-6890537/

 

So, essentially, the scenes where Sansa and Arya were at each other's throats were real. Littlefinger had successfully manipulated the situation so as to cause a rift between the sisters. However, just prior to the trial, Sansa finally had the sense to knock on Bran's door and ask him wtf is going on. TBH, I'm glad this scene got deleted as it made the twist of Baelish getting accused all the more a surprise. As for Baelish requesting a trial by combat - is this a custom in the North? Sure, we've seen trial by combat's in the Eyrie and King's Landing but never the North. I just assumed the Lord or Lady of Winterfell's ruling was final and that's that. Otherwise, why didn't the person who abandoned the Night's Watch in episode 1 of season 1 request a TbC before getting beheaded by Ned Stark.

 

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1 hour ago, MooseSketts said:

I am legitimately confused and I'm not even sure why I am commenting but:

@SolarCat02didn't mention a deleted scene, but based his/her reasoning on what happened in the show on Sunday (or whatever day they saw the show).

@Miles_Warren mentioned a deleted scene, which is the post below SolarCat's:

 

 

It's okay. Maybe that full scene is only included in my version of HBO? Do they do stuff like that? Different HBO regions? 

 

Here it is, minutes 1:45-4:00 of this clip, in case anyone anyone else is confused about which scene I am referring to that told me Sansa asked Bran for help:

Lord Baelish Trial and Execution

 

I hope that clears things up for anyone else confused about the scene on which I base my analysis. ;) I am sorry not everyone got to really see it, it added a lot of punch to Lord Baelish's ending, and made the whole thing a very beautiful scene. Well, aside from all the blood, anyway. :X

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I know the scene you are talking about and that was the version on my episode as well.  But what I'm confused about is @The_Apex_Badger saying you are basing your deduction on a deleted scene; yet, I don't see in the post he quoted by you where you mentioned such a thing (unless my English has gone to shit).

Right below your post, however, @Miles_Warren mentions a deleted scene and @HaSoOoN-MHD also say something about deleted scenes.  Basically, what I'm confused about is the conversation right now because I don't see where you (SolarCat) mentioned a deleted scene in the quoted post or prior to the quoted post.  It would have made more sense if the conversation started out being quoted with Miles or Hasoon by Apex because Miles and Hasoon mentioned deleted scenes.

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6 minutes ago, Miles_Warren said:

Anyway, enough about this. Let's get back on topic before the mods close the thread. The Winds of Winter are upon us and the whitewalkers are marching south beyond the Wall. We don't need anymore heat around here.

Wait, shouldn't we need MORE heat with the Winds of Winter here? Just not forum flaming. :)

 

I do think there is a point to be made about this infamous deleted scene adding more meaning to Littlefinger's death. As it was, viewers have to assume that Sansa talked to Bran, but the show didn't make it explicit. Obviously the producers were trying to increase the tension and make their twist more shocking, but it felt kind of cheap. They could have compromised by having a 5-second scene of Sansa knocking on Bran's door, and saying "Bran, are you in there?" before cutting away. It's not like they need to show what was discussed. I think it was writing trying to be clever instead of good writing, personally.

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Well, that is an optimistic way to take it. Either way, rally and ready up for Season 8.... in fifteen decades.

 

The reason I don't enjoy this setup may seem like a small thing, but it is a big FU to intelligent audience members... TV viewers only knew Bran was being extremely strange with his sisters....

 

Why did he go from making everyone avoid him due to his completely unproven powers and horrible social skills to someone who was believed without question without establishing a semblance of cohesion (lol)?

 

There is a massive disconnect and pothole with the Starks' reunion and scheme due to this rift that was made apparent more for the audience than LF.

 

Guys, there have been way better twists and magnificent scenes... this one is by far NOT the worst.... it is probably the most convoluted due to relying on the audience to figure things out.... I'm fine that if you pull it off.

 

D and D obviously hit the agree to disagree about that scene mark, hehe.

 

Why couldn't they have shown the sisters having an inkling of what Bran was capable of instead of only showing complete strangeness and confusion? Or the Knights of the Veil and their Academy Award winning pretending that Arya is on trial?

 

Also, convincing me and others that the sisters were arguing to the 4th wall, in situations where LF was not possibly present, on purpose is insane... the genuine conflict in this case must have been forced to a degree we have yet to see on GOT.

 

We can assume they talked to Bran... doesn't do a bit of good for the sister's inexplicably quick alliance with each other and believing, without question, that Bran knows all.

Edited by The_Apex_Badger
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1 hour ago, The_Apex_Badger said:

Guys, there have been way better twists and magnificent scenes... this one is by far NOT the worst.... it is probably the most convoluted due to relying on the audience to figure things out.... I'm fine that if you pull it off.

 

I agree with this. I still enjoyed the twist though.

 

1 hour ago, The_Apex_Badger said:

Also, convincing me and others that the sisters were arguing to the 4th wall, in situations where LF was not possibly present, on purpose is insane... the genuine conflict in this case must have been forced to a degree we have yet to see on GOT.

 

 

The arguing wasn't fake. Littlefinger managed to create a genuine rift between the sisters. His plan was working. Unfortunately, Sansa finally had the sense to knock on Bran's door and ask what's up (as the deleted scene was going to show).

 

1 hour ago, The_Apex_Badger said:

Why couldn't they have shown the sisters having an inkling of what Bran was capable of instead of only showing complete strangeness and confusion? Or the Knights of the Veil and their Academy Award winning pretending that Arya is on trial?

 

To be fair, the sisters actually did have an idea what Bran was capable of. The show actually showed the sisters getting over their confusion of Bran's new abilities. From Sansa walking away in discomfort after Bran knew she was raped to Arya saying "You saw that?" when Bran said he saw her kill the Freys.

 

Also, as far as the Knights of the Veil knew, Arya really was on trial. Sansa's plan would not have worked if she told every Tom, Dick and Harry that she was actually going to have Baelish on trial.

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15 minutes ago, Miles_Warren said:

Also, as far as the Knights of the Veil knew, Arya really was on trial. Sansa's plan would not have worked if she told every Tom, Dick and Harry that she was actually going to have Baelish on trial.

 

This was my assumption as well. I mean Littlefinger did not have anyone really loyal to him, sure he manipulated people, but no one really respected him. Most of the Knights of the Vale, especially Yohn, were probably pretty eager to see Littlefinger put down. Sansa could have probably said pretty much anything and everyone would have stood around looking at each other going "Yeah yeah, sounds legit."

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Even if you want to work on the logic that the deleted scene justifies all this it doesn't make sense how everyone was willing to believe Bran who suddenly shows up after being north of the wall for years with supposed magical powers. LF would just not fall in that trap so easily.

 

Anyways, I had some spare time on my hands and some new editing software installed so I tried my hand at one of those video tributes people do on YouTube. The subject should be obvious to all of you haha

Could have turned out better but for a first attempt I think it's alright.

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18 hours ago, HaSoOoN-MHD said:

Anyways, I had some spare time on my hands and some new editing software installed so I tried my hand at one of those video tributes people do on YouTube. The subject should be obvious to all of you haha

Could have turned out better but for a first attempt I think it's alright.

 

That came out pretty awesome!  (And now I have to find the time to go back and rewatch this series)

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