The Proposal to Fixing the Platinum Trophy: The Ribbon System

[totallycrushed]

If we going with this thing, let us have the chance to opt out from this. I don’t need some unofficial numbers on my profile page.

[B1rvine]

1 hour ago, Rally-Vincent--- said:

snip

 

Im going to quote the great @Sir_Bee.

 

Celebrating ones accomplishments (with ribbons) isn’t detrimental to other groups.

 

Ribbons are a nice way to share one’s accomplishments.

[Sir_Bee]

I will say that I actually really like this idea.  Stats are a big part of anything we as a society do, why would more information, displayed in a simple yet elegant way be a bad thing?  It doesn't change anything that you have accomplished, or designed to make anyone feel bad about something they have done, it is just another stat to add to the numerous stats already provided.

[DaivRules]

So a ribbon statistic designed to exclude a specific demographic isn't detrimental to the group being excluded? That's an interesting take.

[Undead Wolf]

4 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

So a ribbon statistic designed to exclude a specific demographic isn't detrimental to the group being excluded? That's an interesting take.

 

Detrimental in what way? I don't see how rewarding people with ribbons for putting effort into their platinums hurts people on the other side.

[Sir_Bee]

8 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

So a ribbon statistic designed to exclude a specific demographic isn't detrimental to the group being excluded? That's an interesting take.

 

How is it designed to exclude anyone at all?  That would be like saying the platinum trophy is designed to exclude those who don't get it.  It just doesn't make sense.

 

Leaderboards exist for no reason other than to compare you against others, the more stats on that leaderboard, the more ways you can compare yourself against your peers.  If you are worried that adding stats are going to be excluding people, then you need to opt to get rid of all stats (trophies included), because they all will exclude someone along the way.

[BlackJudas]

47 minutes ago, totallycrushed said:

If we going with this thing, let us have the chance to opt out from this. I don’t need some unofficial numbers on my profile page.

 

Unofficial is subjective. The rarity here is unofficial yet it's accepted and mostly taken as gospel.

 

So ribbons are a welcome addition because it feels quite well thought out.

[totallycrushed]

@BlackJudas objectively we are adding participation awards to the forums

[DaivRules]

5 minutes ago, Undead Wolf said:

 

Detrimental in what way? I don't see how rewarding people with ribbons for putting effort into their platinums hurts people on the other side.

 

5 minutes ago, Sir_Bee said:

 

How is it designed to exclude anyone at all?  That would be like saying the platinum trophy is designed to exclude those who don't get it.  It just doesn't make sense.

 

Leaderboards exist for no reason other than to compare you against others, the more stats on that leaderboard, the more ways you can compare yourself against your peers.  If you are worried that adding stats are going to be excluding people, then you need to opt to get rid of all stats (trophies included), because they all will exclude someone along the way.

 

Both your points are valid if were just talking about something else. We are talking about a ribbon with a statistic that is specifically calculated to exclude a demographic. Made to counter people who are playing completely within the current leaderboard rules of listing people with the most points.

 

Anecdotes and comparisons need not apply, we don't need to compare this to anything else because it isn't anything else. It's detrimental because they played by the leaderboard rules up to this point and now group has banded to find a way to identify them as different and call them out as different on the front page of their profile. Anyone with a difference between their ribbon count and their platinum count will be labeled as less than others and you can look back through most of the conversations here on the topic to see how civilized people tend to be on the subject.

[KillerUni12]

I think an opt-out option couldn't hurt. In the user settings, a user could choose to enable/disable the ribbons. If enabled, a user would see them on everybody's profile. If disabled, the would appear on no one's profile. 

[Sir_Bee]

14 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

Both your points are valid if were just talking about something else. We are talking about a ribbon with a statistic that is specifically calculated to exclude a demographic. Made to counter people who are playing completely within the current leaderboard rules of listing people with the most points.

 

Anecdotes and comparisons need not apply, we don't need to compare this to anything else because it isn't anything else. It's detrimental because they played by the leaderboard rules up to this point and now group has banded to find a way to identify them as different and call them out as different on the front page of their profile. Anyone with a difference between their ribbon count and their platinum count will be labeled as less than others and you can look back through most of the conversations here on the topic to see how civilized people tend to be on the subject.

 

But this is flawed logic ... The current leaderboard as it stands now would not change.  You want to make the argument that it would call people out who have a different ribbon number to their platinum count, but that is no different than what exists currently.  Your trophy card has a completion percentage, which through your logic is designed to call people out who don't finish their games they start.  That is what stats do, that is what happens when you start comparing people to one another, some are better than others in some regards, and not so in others.  If your concern is that it will get people to attack others based on these numbers, those of us that would care to do so are already doing it and they don't need the help of a ribbon to give them a reason.  On the whole people are good, and those of us that are assholes do not need help to act that way.

 

The part that you are forgetting is that this is all about leaderboards.  Everything done on this site is designed to compare lists or trophies by different players.  There will never be anything bad done by adding more ways to allow people to compare themselves.

 

Now, if you were to restructure the main leaderboard and base it on ribbons over platinums, you might have an argument, but this new system has no bearing whatsoever on what already exists.

 

All of this boils down to the idea that you think if you have a ribbon that I don't that should make me feel bad.  That is a broken ideology.  If that was really how the world functioned, everyone who wasn't number 1 all the time should all feel shitty and fight against it because the system is excluding them.  Your achievements should have no bearing on my achievements other than maybe some friendly rivalries or encouragement to do better.  You can never make me feel bad by accomplishing something I could not, all it would do would make me impressed or proud of what you can do.  If that isn't the case for you or anyone else, than maybe they are the ones who need to change, not the rest of the world.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Sir_Bee

[BlindMango]

16 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

Both your points are valid if were just talking about something else. We are talking about a ribbon with a statistic that is specifically calculated to exclude a demographic. Made to counter people who are playing completely within the current leaderboard rules of listing people with the most points.

 

Anecdotes and comparisons need not apply, we don't need to compare this to anything else because it isn't anything else. It's detrimental because they played by the leaderboard rules up to this point and now group has banded to find a way to identify them as different and call them out as different on the front page of their profile. Anyone with a difference between their ribbon count and their platinum count will be labeled as less than others and you can look back through most of the conversations here on the topic to see how civilized people tend to be on the subject.

 

Ribbons aren't excluding people as they will still have a platinum count and the lack of ribbons isn't affecting peoples stats on the main leaderboards.

 

 

Either way I'm gonna put up a "Part 2" ribbons thread addressing a lot of things people brought up in this thread with polls, along with changing and adding some things here and there. I'll probably lock this thread soon as I've gotten all the general feedback people have told me because at this point people are just saying the same thing without any updates from me, however stay tuned in a few weeks for part 2  

 

Also I should probably add that this system isn't taking priority over any other features on the site and might not even got added for several months depending on how things go, however at the very least whenever we end up having to add this system like this due to Sony's continued lack of quality control, we will at that time hopefully have already nailed down what to implement with threads like these

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by BlindMango