DarkHpokinsn Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said: The fact you're shoving your opinions down our throats while not respecting ours makes you look like the ignorant one, but hey who am I to say anything. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Not shoving just stating an inherent fact, good writing isn’t really subjective. 20 minutes ago, EcoShifter said: A bit of irony here. There's nothing hard about understanding why someone can dislike TLOU's campaign, especially since the actual story is not interesting to any capacity. (The narrative is solid enough but the actual story is weak and uninspiring.) It doesn't boil down to only being insane or trolling, Uh no, the story is very interesting and it’s strong and inspiring, stop speaking when you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. 29 minutes ago, Varhur said: If you say that you didn't liked TLoU SP, you're either not sane or trolling, what's so hard to understand /s On a serious note, some people could really stop acting like having unpopular opinion is being "a bit of a troll". It is often one in the same. Edited November 13, 2019 by DarkHpokinsn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varhur Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, DarkHpokinsn said: Not shoving just stating an inherent fact, good writing isn’t really subjective. Uh no, the story is very interesting and it’s strong and inspiring, stop speaking when you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. It is often one in the same. Why are you implying that your opinion is the "one and only truth", and everyone else are out of their minds? Just because someone doesn't share your opinion doesn't mean that they know jackshit about the game. Why are you having so big problems with it? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHpokinsn Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Varhur said: Why are you implying that your opinion is the "one and only truth", and everyone else are out of their minds? Just because someone doesn't share your opinion doesn't mean that they know jackshit about the game. Why are you having so big problems with it? Just saying, when something like this is written well, it’s not really subjective if it’s good or not cause there are some inherent truths. I do think you’re crazy if you can’t see the quality of The Last of Us. You don’t have to share the opinion but you can’t deny it’s quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varhur Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Just now, DarkHpokinsn said: Just saying, when something like this is written well, it’s not really subjective if it’s good or not cause there are some inherent truths. I do think you’re crazy if you can’t see the quality of The Last of Us. You don’t have to share the opinion but you can’t deny it’s quality. You don't seem to understand what "subjective" is. Just because you don't agree with someone, doesn't mean that what they're saying is invalid. No need for namecalling or calling people trolls, it has no sense. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoShifter Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) No, the story is in fact not creative or interesting, as I said the first time, Dark. Stop defending games purely based off your subjective and emotional feelings and attachment to them. On 11/13/2019 at 9:28 AM, Varhur said: /s stands for sarcasm :\ On topic, I'd rather Naughty Dog ditch the standalone online game to work on a new main game for next generation, which if they want they can just add an online multiplayer component there. Seriously, this has already been their most disappointing gen: starting off with an in-house remaster (that doesn't even address a lot of the original's flaws), then milking out/making a completely unnecessary installment to an already well concluded series, then double dipping again from the same series as a budget title and following support characters, then lastly developing the overdue and delayed sequel to The Last of Us at the end of the this gen's life cycle and the start of next gen's, rather than the more favorable route of having started this gen off with it. When TLOU released late during last generation, that was different and understandable because they had developed 3 new Uncharted titles and no new IP yet. This gen, though? Completely different... Uncharted had already been wrapped up, again, and there has been no new IPs developed. So their first or second (if accepting TLOUR) game this gen should have been TLOU2. Now with this focus on a standalone MP mode, the next generation is going to start the sameway with them it did this gen, with their next new game not coming years until post PS5 launch, which is only made worse when SIE have stated that PS5 titles will have longer development cycles. Sigh. Edited November 19, 2019 by EcoShifter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHpokinsn Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Varhur said: You don't seem to understand what "subjective" is. Just because you don't agree with someone, doesn't mean that what they're saying is invalid. No need for namecalling or calling people trolls, it has no sense. No I get it, you don’t seem to get that there are inherent truths when it comes to quality of a piece. Last of Us is written well, that’s undeniable. You don’t have to agree but then you’d Just be denying truths at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varhur Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Just now, DarkHpokinsn said: No I get it, you don’t seem to get that there are inherent truths when it comes to quality of a piece. Last of Us is written well, that’s undeniable. You don’t have to agree but then you’d Just be denying truths at that point. imo it is well written, but that's what it is, an opinion. Opinions are subjective. Opinion that TLoU is well written is definetely popular, but of course, there are the unpopular opinions, that say that it isn't. There are no "denying truths" bs you're talking about. There is only not agreeing with majority. And there's nothing crazy with it, different strokes for different folks, and while TLoU appeased many people, it obviously can't appeal every single one of them. And don't tell me that you get the "subjective" thing, because you just contradicted it later. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHpokinsn Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Varhur said: imo it is well written, but that's what it is, an opinion. Opinions are subjective. Opinion that TLoU is well written is definetely popular, but of course, there are the unpopular opinions, that say that it isn't. There are no "denying truths" bs you're talking about. There is only not agreeing with majority. And there's nothing crazy with it, different strokes for different folks, and while TLoU appeased many people, it obviously can't appeal every single one of them. And don't tell me that you get the "subjective" thing, because you just contradicted it later. Lol I get subjectivity, but that doesn’t mean there’s not inherent truths my dude. You can have the opinion that there’s more than 2 genders but it’s an inherent fact that there are only 2. The quality of the writing is Last Of Us is Undeniably great. Doesn’t mean you have to like it but you’d be denying inherent truths, as I said previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestUsername---- Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, DarkHpokinsn said: Lol I get subjectivity, but that doesn’t mean there’s not inherent truths my dude. You can have the opinion that there’s more than 2 genders but it’s an inherent fact that there are only 2. The quality of the writing is Last Of Us is Undeniably great. Doesn’t mean you have to like it but you’d be denying inherent truths, as I said previously. That doesn't make sense? Just because something is universally believed that doesn't mean its and objective thought. Are their rules to writing? Yes, but that doesn't mean if you follow every rule your narrative will be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHpokinsn Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, BestUsername---- said: That doesn't make sense? Just because something is universally believed that doesn't mean its and objective thought. Are their rules to writing? Yes, but that doesn't mean if you follow every rule your narrative will be great. Yeah yeah whatever you say. Clearly you don’t get what an Inherent truth is. Believe what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varhur Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, DarkHpokinsn said: Yeah yeah whatever you say. Clearly you don’t get what an Inherent truth is. Then if you're so smart, tell us what is it. All i'm hearing is that you're saying that it's "objective opinion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestUsername---- Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, DarkHpokinsn said: Yeah yeah whatever you say. Clearly you don’t get what an Inherent truth is. Believe what you will. Yeah, please explain. What I'm understanding is that you believe that since it was universally acclaimed that it must be great and whoever disagrees is wrong in their opinion. I've never heard of inherent truths, but I have heard of logical truths. Which means that the statement has to be a truth or fact, and no situation can arise which causes a paradox. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHpokinsn Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Varhur said: Then if you're so smart, tell us what is it. All i'm hearing is that you're saying that it's "objective opinion". Inherent Truth kind of speaks for itself, it’s just something that’s true despite your opinion of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestUsername---- Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Just now, DarkHpokinsn said: Inherent Truth kind of speaks for itself, it’s just something that’s true despite your opinion of it. Yeah... I don't believe that can be applied to the arts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHpokinsn Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, BestUsername---- said: Yeah, please explain. What I'm understanding is that you believe that since it was universally acclaimed that it must be great and whoever disagrees is wrong in their opinion. I've never heard of inherent truths, but I have heard of logical truths. Which means that the statement has to be a truth or fact, and no situation can arise which causes a paradox. The world has “inherent truths” everywhere, the fact that you haven’t heard that is surprising. Just now, BestUsername---- said: Yeah... I don't believe that can be applied to the arts. It definitely can. Good writing is good writing, no matter what is said to the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varhur Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, DarkHpokinsn said: It definitely can. So why is "tlou writing good" not an opinion and a truth? Doesn't help that those who disagree are either "crazy" or "trolls", which sounds stupid in it's own way, because it's gatekeeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestUsername---- Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, DarkHpokinsn said: The world has “inherent truths” everywhere, the fact that you haven’t heard that is surprising. It definitely can. Please tell me then, other than the writing for the Last of Us. Where in art something can be taken has universal truth and in no way can be had an opinion on. And I don't mean they used a X canvas or Y colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHpokinsn Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Varhur said: So why is "tlou writing good" not an opinion and a truth? Doesn't help that those who disagree are either "crazy" or "trolls", which sounds stupid in it's own way, because it's gatekeeping. Nothing wrong with gatekeeping, not sure why it’s treated like an evil thing. Because there are certain things that make a written piece, quality. Last of Us follows those things. You act like good/great writing doesn’t exist. If something is badly written you won’t deny that but for some reason it’s subjective when it comes to it being good/great. 14 minutes ago, BestUsername---- said: Please tell me then, other than the writing for the Last of Us. Where in art something can be taken has universal truth and in no way can be had an opinion on. And I don't mean they used a X canvas or Y colors. There’s plenty of shows on TV right now that are objectively terribly written and make no sense. There are standards that make something good/great writing or terrible/bad writing. Edited November 13, 2019 by DarkHpokinsn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestUsername---- Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, DarkHpokinsn said: Nothing wrong with gatekeeping, not sure why it’s treated like an evil thing. Because there are certain things that make a written piece, quality. Last of Us follows those things. You act like good/great writing doesn’t exist. If something is badly written you won’t deny that but for some reason it’s subjective when it comes to it being good/great. There’s plenty of shows on TV right now that are objectively terribly written and make no sense. There are standards that make something good/great writing or terrible/bad writing. There is a lot wrong with gate-keeping. How is good that you limiting someone else opinion of a specific fandom? Or in this case calling someone crazy or a troll because they don't share an opinion? Everyone here is willing to listen but it seems like you won't play ball. Does good writing exist? Yes, no one here is denying that. What we are denying is that there is a logical truth to what is considered good and bad. What is in question is your belief of the word objective v.s. subjective. And it's funny that you mention "standards". What you are implying is that everyone's standards are the same. That standards are universally shared person to person. Does that mean someone who has never experienced horror should have the same standards as someone who lives, breathes, and eats horror? Oh, and your answer doesn't make sense to my question. I asked where in art can something be taken as a universal truth. And you answer, because there are shows that are bad? Edited November 13, 2019 by BestUsername---- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHpokinsn Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BestUsername---- said: There is a lot wrong with gate-keeping. How is good that you limiting someone else opinion of a specific fandom? Or in this case calling someone crazy or a troll because they don't share an opinion? Everyone here is willing to listen but it seems like you won't play ball. Does good writing exist? Yes, no one here is denying that. What we are denying is that there is a logical truth to what is considered good and bad. What is in question is your belief of the word objective v.s. subjective. And it's funny that you mention "standards". What you are implying is that everyone's standards are the same. That standards are universally shared person to person. Does that mean someone who has never experienced horror should have the same standards as someone who lives, breathes, and eats horror? Nah Gatekeeping is a good thing, nah a great thing. There is quite literally a logical truth to things being good and bad. Lol I guess we’re done here cause you’ll never understand what I’m saying. Edited November 13, 2019 by DarkHpokinsn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestUsername---- Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 I guess we are done because you refuse to back anything up with evidence. Here's your answer to my written response. Gatekeeping is good, no great, because I said it is. Nevermind what I wrote after that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varhur Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Just now, DarkHpokinsn said: Nothing wrong with gatekeeping, not sure why it’s treated like an evil thing. Because there are certain things that make a written piece, quality. Last of Us follows those things. You act like good/great writing doesn’t exist. If something is badly written you won’t deny that but for some reason it’s subjective when it comes to it being good/great. Ever heard of "real men do/don't do x" stuff before? Taking upon yourself what's considered to be a part of something. Like Dark Souls fans that say that fans of The Legend of Zelda aren't "real gamers". You won't ever change my mind that it's bad. And there's not a single, failsafe way to say that the game or it's writing is good or bad. Just look at Days Gone reviews. Critics said it's bad, but does that mean that suddenly having an opinion that says that it's good is objectively wrong? Plus, Jesus Christ, that's a lazy answer "i said that it's true so it's true, were done cuz you're stupid". Maybe try backing up your "facts" with evidence instead of standing on pedestals. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHpokinsn Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BestUsername---- said: I guess we are done because you refuse to back anything up with evidence. Here's your answer to my written response. Gatekeeping is good, no great, because I said it is. Nevermind what I wrote after that. Lol you’re asking me to back something up that’s essentially impossible. Gatekeeping isn’t all bad. 7 minutes ago, Varhur said: Ever heard of "real men do/don't do x" stuff before? Taking upon yourself what's considered to be a part of something. Like Dark Souls fans that say that fans of The Legend of Zelda aren't "real gamers". You won't ever change my mind that it's bad. And there's not a single, failsafe way to say that the game or it's writing is good or bad. Just look at Days Gone reviews. Critics said it's bad, but does that mean that suddenly having an opinion that says that it's good is objectively wrong? Plus, Jesus Christ, that's a lazy answer "i said that it's true so it's true, were done cuz you're stupid". Maybe try backing up your "facts" with evidence instead of standing on pedestals. Lol honestly this conversation has gotten boring to me at this point. Gatekeeping isn’t a bad thing. Edited November 13, 2019 by DarkHpokinsn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestUsername---- Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BestUsername---- said: Wait. Do you finally get it? That someone's opinion about an art piece can't be wrong? A Christmas miracle came early! @Varhur We did it. Edited November 13, 2019 by BestUsername---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X_Wizi_X Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 9 hours ago, sephiroth4424 said: It seems that TLOU 2 will have multiplayer mode. Either that or they will make it standalone https://twitter.com/NaughtyDogJobs Let's hope bro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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