Sarsky

Leader board removal for specific games

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i was wondering what is the point in removing someone from the entire leader board system instead of removing someone from that specific games leader board?, with the current set up and rule of the site, the 3 strikes your out rule, wouldn't it make sense with the current rules of set up that instead of forcing the player to hide there trophies; which is annoying and tedious. You put a flag or a symbol next to the game that was auto popped and simply remove them of the leader board for that game?

 

it would make a whole lot more sense and seem fairer then just going your a cheater and everyone will know, especially if you didn't auto pop your trophies voluntarily with games like COD and etc...

plus if someone does do it 3 times just ban them permanently from leader boards?

 

please give me your opinion on this idea, love to see if people think this could be a good idea or a bad one.

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If someone does it three times, how do you know he hasn't done it 33 times, but in the 30 out of 33 times he became better at cheating and there is no way to tell

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2 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

If someone does it three times, how do you know he hasn't done it 33 times, but in the 30 out of 33 times he became better at cheating and there is no way to tell

that's kinda why we have report and disputes? im saying instead of removing entire leaderboards we just remove for that specific game if someones flagged for a game, not change the entire system format. so if someone has cheated on a game they are removed from the leaderboards for that specific game adn if they want to dispute they can to get on the leaderboards for that game instead of completely removing them from all leaderbaords.

 

if the person has cheated more then 3x they are perma banned all leaderboards. in order to tell if they cheated or good at cheating the game in questions trophy list should be reviewed.

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@Sarsky correct me if I get you wrong, but for me it sounds like I can just get the plats for FUEL and  MW2 without even bothering that it's cheated, as long as I don't care for the game leaderboard. So everyone has 2 free cards for plats.

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2 minutes ago, Sarsky said:

that's kinda why we have report and disputes? im saying instead of removing entire leaderboards we just remove for that specific game if someones flagged for a game, not change the entire system format. so if someone has cheated on a game they are removed from the leaderboards for that specific game adn if they want to dispute they can to get on the leaderboards for that game instead of completely removing them from all leaderbaords.

 

if the person has cheated more then 3x they are perma banned all leaderboards. in order to tell if they cheated or good at cheating the game in questions trophy list should be reviewed.

You can't report a game if it doesn't have impossible timestamps. If you felt the need to cheat even one game, why should anyone believe you earned any trophy legitimately in your profile?

This only involves accounts where is confirmed they used edited saves.

For accounts reported because of hackers in multiplayer modes or some old games like Fuel, it think that's the reason they allow you to hide up to 2 games without being removed from the leaderboards

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11 minutes ago, JayDeLosDioses said:

@Sarsky correct me if I get you wrong, but for me it sounds like I can just get the plats for FUEL and  MW2 without even bothering that it's cheated, as long as I don't care for the game leaderboard. So everyone has 2 free cards for plats.

hmm... i din't think about that in that sense that's a very excelent point, however if they did cheat that game and its been reported/flagged it should have a flag symbol next to the game and that person will not be on the leader boards for that specific game.

 

etc. if MW2 was autopopped user would be removed only form that games leaderboards and on their profile it will have a flag next to the game a little symbol to say that they autopopped instead of making people hide there trophies and messing up there milestones and tracking of trophies.

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That won’t work. The three flag rule is supposed to be a major punishment for people who consistently bend the rules. If your system was in place then a cheater would only get stripped off the leaderboards for the games they’ve cheated in and ultimately leaves them to continue their ways for other games. With that much freedom they’ll only gain the knowledge to be more careful. You’ve gotta have some kinda quality control when there are multiple ways to potentially beat the system.

 

As for those games that are known to be filled with modders and auto popping trophies for everyone, those should be whitelisted.

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16 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

You can't report a game if it doesn't have impossible timestamps. If you felt the need to cheat even one game, why should anyone believe you earned any trophy legitimately in your profile?

This only involves accounts where is confirmed they used edited saves.

For accounts reported because of hackers in multiplayer modes or some old games like Fuel, it think that's the reason they allow you to hide up to 2 games without being removed from the leaderboards

what if the individual didn't intentionally cheat or use a different save file? is it fair to make them hide there games and associate them as a cheater or hacker when they didn't voluntarily or willingly hack there trophies?

the problem is, is that anyone who hides trophies are automatically acknowledged and considered cheaters and hackers even if they didn't do so themselves, and i don't think its fair with the current system to incriminate players in general regardless of context or reasons of how there trophies were autopopped.

i genuinely think that it would be fairer and more considerate to players in general if for a 1st strike they're simply removed from the leader boards for that specific game.

 

plus when you hide your games it messes up with the trophy milestone and level system and tracking in general.

3 minutes ago, Emina said:

That won’t work. The three flag rule is supposed to be a major punishment for people who consistently bend the rules. If your system was in place then a cheater would only get stripped off the leaderboards for the games they’ve cheated in and ultimately leaves them to continue their ways for other games. With that much freedom they’ll only gain the knowledge to be more careful. You’ve gotta have some kinda quality control when there are multiple ways to potentially beat the system.

 

As for those games that are known to be filled with modders and auto popping trophies for everyone, those should be whitelisted.

i see thats a good statement, however i was thinking only for a first strike system, then  second strike hide the games after, due to games with modders and hackers. the fact that people who end up getting autopopped cause of these people don't get affiliated or associated with real hackers and cheaters.

 

there has been discussions for white listing games i heard but it ultimately leed no where and i was thinking adding a 1 strike rule system where instead of 1st strike hide games you get removed for that specific games leaderboards and have a flag symbol next to it and any after no excuses.

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I think the current system is fair with 3 strikes (although the problem with hacked lobbies should be somehow addressed).

 

The overall leaderboard is for hardcore trophy collectors, who value the amount and score of trophies, not the games themselves, so whenever somebody is on that leaderboard with cheated games, it devalues other players accomplishments, it's as simple as that. The trophy leaderboard can be considered a (meta)game, the game of collecting trophies legitimately. 

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10 minutes ago, Sarsky said:

what if the individual didn't intentionally cheat

And how it shall be proved then?...

 

Imagine:

 

A ) I accidentally entered "hacked" lobby - got trophies autopopped which means I got them not intentionally, so I am "innocent", not my fault!

B ) I contacted underground-darknet-super-turbo hackers team, paid them $$$ and agreed that we will meet in a lobby and they will unlock trophies for me - intentionally

 

And imagine, I did it in B ) way. Then there is a dispute about my case. 

"Me? Hacker? It was A) case! I am innocent"

 

And what then?

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3 minutes ago, fbdbh said:

I think the current system is fair with 3 strikes (although the problem with hacked lobbies should be somehow addressed).

 

The overall leaderboard is for hardcore trophy collectors, who value the amount and score of trophies, not the games themselves, so whenever somebody is on that leaderboard with cheated games, it devalues other players accomplishments, it's as simple as that. The trophy leaderboard can be considered a (meta)game, the game of collecting trophies legitimately. 

the idea is to remove them from that specific games leaderboards, especially if its a game with hackers and modders for a 1st strike.

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13 minutes ago, Sarsky said:

what if the individual didn't intentionally cheat or use a different save file? is it fair to make them hide there games and associate them as a cheater or hacker when they didn't voluntarily or willingly hack there trophies?

the problem is, is that anyone who hides trophies are automatically acknowledged and considered cheaters and hackers even if they didn't do so themselves, and i don't think its fair with the current system to incriminate players in general regardless of context or reasons of how there trophies were autopopped.

i genuinely think that it would be fairer and more considerate to players in general if for a 1st strike they're simply removed from the leader boards for that specific game.

 

plus when you hide your games it messes up with the trophy milestone and level system and tracking in general.

i see thats a good statement, however i was thinking only for a first strike system, then  second strike hide the games after, due to games with modders and hackers. the fact that people who end up getting autopopped cause of these people don't get affiliated or associated with real hackers and cheaters.

 

there has been discussions for white listing games i heard but it ultimately leed no where and i was thinking adding a 1 strike rule system where instead of 1st strike hide games you get removed for that specific games leaderboards and have a flag symbol next to it and any after no excuses.

Some people hide trophies simply because other people like children or friends started a game on their console and they don't want to see them listed on their profile on this site because they don't own/play the game it's not their trophies so why not just hide them and track the trophies that are actually theirs

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5 minutes ago, Sarsky said:

what if the individual didn't intentionally cheat or use a different save file? is it fair to make them hide there games and associate them as a cheater or hacker when they didn't voluntarily or willingly hack there trophies?

True. But how many times would that happen? And keep in mind that most times, the trophies in question are the harder ones in the reported game.

I've seen disputes where the flag was lifted because there wasn't a specific cheating pattern.

Like for example in Batman Arkham series, if you get all medals together you are done, but there were occasions where some story mode trophies were out of order. Flags were lifted with an asterisk that if they found other games with improbable timestamps, the cheating team will report the game again

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1 minute ago, Sarsky said:

the idea is to remove them from that specific games leaderboards, especially if its a game with hackers and modders for a 1st strike.

 

The game is flagged if it's cheated, so it's instantly removed from both the game leaderboard and the overall leaderboard. Players can hide it, and then that game won't be calculated in the overall score. I don't get what would be different. 

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2 minutes ago, Smashero said:

And how it shall be proved then?...

 

Imagine:

 

A ) I accidentally entered "hacked" lobby - got trophies autopopped which means I got them not intentionally, so I am "innocent", not my fault!

B ) I contacted underground-darknet-super-turbo hackers team, paid them $$$ and agreed that we will meet in a lobby and they will unlock trophies for me - intentionally

 

And imagine, I did it in B ) way. Then there is a dispute about my case. 

"Me? Hacker? It was A) case! I am innocent"

 

And what then?

i think people might not be understanding me... as i ahve said remove from that specific games leaderboards, if people dispute to be put back onto the leaderboards they have to proof why it isn't autopopped, im not saying overhaul current system, im saying for a  1st strike basis, simply remove them from that specific games leaderbaords.

 

i think people are heavily misinterpreting the point of what i am trying to say. i am not saying people get a pass im saying people will be removed for that games specific leaderbaords as a 1st strike bassis.

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Just now, Sarsky said:

i think people might not be understanding me... as i ahve said remove from that specific games leaderboards, if people dispute to be put back onto the leaderboards they have to proof why it isn't autopopped, im not saying overhaul current system, im saying for a  1st strike basis, simply remove them from that specific games leaderbaords.

 

i think people are heavily misinterpreting the point of what i am trying to say. i am not saying people get a pass im saying people will be removed for that games specific leaderbaords as a 1st strike bassis.

 

But a flag removes them instantly.

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3 minutes ago, Taliesin_2943 said:

Some people hide trophies simply because other people like children or friends started a game on their console and they don't want to see them listed on their profile on this site because they don't own/play the game it's not their trophies so why not just hide them and track the trophies that are actually theirs

i tihnk that should be optional but if you don't have a family or child account and you want to track your trophy milestones and stats using this site it really sucks especially if the game is known for hacked lobbies and modders and it jsut a 1st strike offence, not a multiple offence.

5 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

True. But how many times would that happen? And keep in mind that most times, the trophies in question are the harder ones in the reported game.

I've seen disputes where the flag was lifted because there wasn't a specific cheating pattern.

Like for example in Batman Arkham series, if you get all medals together you are done, but there were occasions where some story mode trophies were out of order. Flags were lifted with an asterisk that if they found other games with improbable timestamps, the cheating team will report the game again

im saying as a 1st trike basis rather then a reoccurring pattern, it would be a additional feature on the site not a overhaul, it could be a system for whitelisted games if people thought it was a good idea but not an excuse to repeat over and over.

5 minutes ago, fbdbh said:

 

But a flag removes them instantly.

im saying for a 1st strike on a game thats been flagged they are removed from that specific games leader boards and it can be considered a warning, or if people are worried about people exploiting and using this a as a free pass for getting a platinum a "white list" is created for specific games you can be allowed 1 strike and your'e simply removed 1 time only for that specific games leader boards, then i can respect that for a implementation so no one can exploit the system.

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I see what you're seeing and you raise some good points:

 

A game is flagged, you have a flagged mark next to the game on your profile, you aren't included on the leaderboards for that game only. The user then has a choice:

  1. appeal against the flag in the usual way in hopes it will be overturned
  2. keep the game on their profile but it will show the flag symbol next to it and they will not appear on the leaderboards for that game.
  3. hide the game as they currently do

Of course if you hit 3 strikes you are permanently removed from the leaderboard.

 

So the only thing that changes between the current system and now is point 2 above. You raised an interesting point that hiding a game that may have had auto-popped trophies from years ago could completely mess up your milestones. Not only that but you could have played a game legitimately for hours and then had someone auto-pop trophies. You may not want to hide a game you love because someone else ruined it for you.

 

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1 hour ago, Sarsky said:

hmm... i din't think about that in that sense that's a very excelent point, however if they did cheat that game and its been reported/flagged it should have a flag symbol next to the game and that person will not be on the leader boards for that specific game.

 

etc. if MW2 was autopopped user would be removed only form that games leaderboards and on their profile it will have a flag next to the game a little symbol to say that they autopopped instead of making people hide there trophies and messing up there milestones and tracking of trophies.

But do I still get the 2.500 points for the overall leaderboard if I have a marking next to a cheated game? If so, then I would just get the 2 unobtainable plats with the most points via savegame. Just removing from the game leaderboard is an invitation to cheat if you ask me.

 

I'd vote for a whitelist for people who run into some morons unlocking trophies for you if you go back to some ps3 games, but then we have to check every single person who get's flagged after the whitelist if they searched for a modder on discord or whatever, or if it was an accident.

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4 minutes ago, JayDeLosDioses said:

But do I still get the 2.500 points for the overall leaderboard if I have a marking next to a cheated game? If so, then I would just get the 2 unobtainable plats with the most points via savegame. Just removing from the game leaderboard is an invitation to cheat if you ask me.

 

I'd vote for a whitelist for people who run into some morons unlocking trophies for you if you go back to some ps3 games, but then we have to check every single person who get's flagged after the whitelist if they searched for a modder on discord or whatever, or if it was an accident.

 

This. Any cheated game should be removed from the main leaderboard, be it via the flag or a hide or whatever. That score matters.

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This all seems like a lot of extra work that will ultimately just open another way for people to cheat. I understand what you are saying about people accidentally ending up in hacked lobbies. The same thing can happen with the vita hack - it can mess up your time stamps and result in a flag on your profile. Neither are directly your fault but both can provide easy covers for actual hacking (the vita region hack already does this in my opinion but that’s a different discussion) and you have the 2 strikes before you get removed to help with that. 
 

At the end of the day everyone here understands the risks of playing certain old games prone to hacking or hacking their vita. If you don’t want to risk your profile just stay away from those games and don’t hack the vita! The rules are the same for everyone and if you are a legit player you will never have anything to worry about unless you expose yourself by playing games with lots of hackers. 
 

I don’t think the flag system needs to be changed. If you are genuinely not at fault and trophies are autopopped you can always hide them before your profile syncs up to avoid the flag altogether. If anything, I would make the flagging system much more strict. 

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45 minutes ago, FawltyPowers said:

I see what you're seeing and you raise some good points:

 

A game is flagged, you have a flagged mark next to the game on your profile, you aren't included on the leaderboards for that game only. The user then has a choice:

  1. appeal against the flag in the usual way in hopes it will be overturned
  2. keep the game on their profile but it will show the flag symbol next to it and they will not appear on the leaderboards for that game.
  3. hide the game as they currently do

Of course if you hit 3 strikes you are permanently removed from the leaderboard.

 

So the only thing that changes between the current system and now is point 2 above. You raised an interesting point that hiding a game that may have had auto-popped trophies from years ago could completely mess up your milestones. Not only that but you could have played a game legitimately for hours and then had someone auto-pop trophies. You may not want to hide a game you love because someone else ruined it for you.

 

100 percent correct

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7 minutes ago, Warlord99956 said:

At the end of the day everyone here understands the risks of playing certain old games prone to hacking or hacking their vita. If you don’t want to risk your profile just stay away from those games and don’t hack the vita! The rules are the same for everyone and if you are a legit player you will never have anything to worry about unless you expose yourself by playing games with lots of hackers. 
 

I don’t think the flag system needs to be changed. If you are genuinely not at fault and trophies are autopopped you can always hide them before your profile syncs up to avoid the flag altogether. If anything, I would make the flagging system much more strict. 

 

See that's one thing that's bothering me. In theory. IN THEORY, there should be a way to:

  • Enjoy every game that I want to enjoy
  • Go for their trophies that I can legitimately attain
  • Display them on my main profile

Without having the risk. I understand that the risk is a given. There's no way to prevent autopopped trophies. But a whitelist should be considered for such cases. Or at least to have a workaround against hackers.

Edited by fbdbh
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29 minutes ago, fbdbh said:

 

This. Any cheated game should be removed from the main leaderboard, be it via the flag or a hide or whatever. That score matters.

Most people who cheat wouldn't make it to the highest leaderboards let alone be in a position to be the highest rank player/world leaderboards, as i said a 1st strike implementations whether a whitelist ir not could be a good way to not to punish someone who hasnt willingly autopoped trophies, there was no free pass anywhere mentioned or me saying its ok to cheat, my issues are more concerned with people who were forced autopoped if anything. 

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11 minutes ago, Warlord99956 said:

This all seems like a lot of extra work that will ultimately just open another way for people to cheat. I understand what you are saying about people accidentally ending up in hacked lobbies. The same thing can happen with the vita hack - it can mess up your time stamps and result in a flag on your profile. Neither are directly your fault but both can provide easy covers for actual hacking (the vita region hack already does this in my opinion but that’s a different discussion) and you have the 2 strikes before you get removed to help with that. 
 

At the end of the day everyone here understands the risks of playing certain old games prone to hacking or hacking their vita. If you don’t want to risk your profile just stay away from those games and don’t hack the vita! The rules are the same for everyone and if you are a legit player you will never have anything to worry about unless you expose yourself by playing games with lots of hackers. 
 

I don’t think the flag system needs to be changed. If you are genuinely not at fault and trophies are autopopped you can always hide them before your profile syncs up to avoid the flag altogether. If anything, I would make the flagging system much more strict. 

Its not fair to be grouped in with everyone just cause cba or too much effort or my leaderboard points. 

 

Most people with auto popped/hidden trophies aren't in the top 1000 world rankings and dont fit or meet the criteria if they do for your concerns. 

 

The main point is adding an additional system in place that acknowledges for a 1st time strike that someone has that game flagged with a icon and removed of that specific leaderboards, i think preferably with a white list for specific games with reported moddees or hacked lobbies. 

 

If people are concerned about a free/easy plat exploit it would be obvious and people would easily rat them out. 

 

Again adressing world leaderboards and points, regarding statement 1 that if someone did autopop 1 game under 1st strike concept and 2nd strike hide games, how would that necersarry overhaul the leaderboards/ranks? It would be meaningless in progress and rank... 

 

The main issue is that because of one game autopoped against your will, removing you from every leaderboard especially with games with hackers/modders known on it is unfair, plus if you worked hard to be on leaderboards on other games, why is it fair to get removed of them cause if 1 game? Thats just stupid! 

 

Mess up one game lose leaderboard ranks on every other game... Seems fair. 

 

I don't think it would be hard work to implement if mods can simply apply a set up. 

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