Anger at the gate of games

[Jelly Soup]

I know I said earlier that I figured this was something of an imaginary problem, something that only comes up in small discussions like this but is otherwise ignored by the majority.

But someone mentioned Necrodancer and realized I have seen examples of extreme gatekeeping there and with a couple other games considered to be super hard (Jamestown is another one, I think). I remember reading Discord logs from the community about how people will report any plat or sub-plat 100% for cheating if either the player won't show hard evidence of gameplay or the group otherwise thinks the player isn't 'good enough'. Forget arguments for/against rarity or doing some sort of easy mode trick, this is just out and out abusive behavior.

[charxsetsuna]

Honestly all these glitches dont bother me if people are using them. Unless they are doing it online, but normally those are patched out anyways. As long as your not ruining other peoples fun I dont care.

[Lonemankane]

On ‎01‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 1:31 AM, Jelly Soup said:

I know I said earlier that I figured this was something of an imaginary problem, something that only comes up in small discussions like this but is otherwise ignored by the majority.

But someone mentioned Necrodancer and realized I have seen examples of extreme gatekeeping there and with a couple other games considered to be super hard (Jamestown is another one, I think). I remember reading Discord logs from the community about how people will report any plat or sub-plat 100% for cheating if either the player won't show hard evidence of gameplay or the group otherwise thinks the player isn't 'good enough'. Forget arguments for/against rarity or doing some sort of easy mode trick, this is just out and out abusive behavior.

That is the kind of gate keeping I seen in games such as payday 2. I have done grinds already to get to a high level and became infamous level 5 but don't feel up to do more grinds so I asked for help and got shot down by people saying I need to really play the game and enjoy it by playing everything in it even the stuff I don't even own such as the dlc I don't own I mean.

 

I agree, I didn't really play all the missions as team work is f ed without a good team and the ai ain't really good so just having a super high infamous level wouldn't really help other than making some trophies pop on the way and the grind less painful when I am done with deathwish.

 

I mean there are gate keepers in games such as dying light who if you got a powerful gun or something that does a lot of dmg on the be the zombie mode they will bitch and moan and report you making you having to deal with a lot of crap.

 

Like with myself, when the update for the legends was added I was flagged as cheating for using the old save trick to get the packs that give you xp and dupped a lot of them and could make anyone who I dropped it for hit the max legend level if they turned it in. But because I was flagged, I was unable to go online awhile because they were trying to either block or ban people from doing that trick before patching it where if you drop it no one else but you can see it.

Edited March 2, 2020 by KANERKB

[Arcesius]

On 29.2.2020 at 6:15 PM, SanctifiedSword said:

Yeah, that was almost precisely my point. I'm just trying to play devils advocate here, so I hope I'm not offending anyone. I'm personally more on the side of skill/legit/no glitches, but trying to see it from both sides here...

 

Oh no worries! It's a healthy discussion, and I can see where you are coming from ?

 

 

On 29.2.2020 at 6:15 PM, SanctifiedSword said:

In speedrunning there is a concise, objective standard to reach that separates skilled players from unskilled players: time to complete a game, usually recorded so people can analyze/verify your runs. What about trophy hunting? What's our objective standard here? What might be important to me, might not be important to you (as you said). What's important to you, might not even reach the tip of my mind for me. There's no standard in trophy hunting. Is it completion %? Is it amount of hard games played? Rarity? Total platinums earned? Trophies earned, regardless of plats? Ezpz games? What makes a trophy hunter a "legit" or "skilled" trophy hunter? There's so many different standards thrown around but no one's every come to a set of "rules" everyone else must follow or else you're "out". So whats to say someone can't glitch/shareplay/etc? 

 

I agree. But I would argue that as long as we don't have a standard, we should respect the developers ideas of how their games should be played, or at least stay in the legal side of things. I mean, people will even violate Sony's legal Terms of Service just to make a game easier by reverting to a previous patch and use some glitches fixed by the developers. How can this be not only permitted, but even encouraged on this site? Even without establishing any sorts of standards for trophy hunting, stuff like this should just not be allowed. 

 

 

On 29.2.2020 at 6:15 PM, SanctifiedSword said:

Me, personally, I'd love for people to be honest about what glitches/exploits they used or hell even stop doing them all together. I'd love for "legit" gamers to be recognized for their feats and difficult games. Unfortunately, like you said, we don't have more leaderboards here. Which I don't get. TrueTrophies/TrueAchievements, as well as other sites, have more leaderboards. Why can't we? Maybe if we had more leaderboards and more standards, we would have a more clear expectation of what to hold each other accountable to for those different categories of trophy hunting. 

 

But that's the problem... Different leaderboards don't solve the problem I have personally. Even in, say, a rarity leaderboard, Hollow Knight will still be a 8.33% platinum, because all players, those who exploit, those who cheat, those who play the game legit, count towards the same trophy rarity. 

 

We might have to draw a line somewhere, though. Using a glitch found within a game is... well, not fair to players that played legit, but if the devs didn't fix it then it's their fault. But when we start reverting patches, using Chronusmax Macros or Autohot-key scripts... how is that different from just outright using Save Wizard? How is it that we don't even care whether an account earned their trophies themselves or just paid someone to Shareplay the game? How is it that we allow players to remain on the leaderboards unless they have cheated THREE games? 

 

 

On 1.3.2020 at 1:22 AM, Spaz said:

However, people are on the fence with glitching and share playing. I personally think share play is outright cheating. I know plenty of people who needed help with Brutality 101 in Batman Arkham Knight, or the ...Becomes the Master trophy in Titanfall 2. Both are heavily skill based, meaning you need the skill and the time to earn those trophies by yourself. I earned them legit on my own through practice, but there are many people who had someone else get those trophies through share play. They're not going to admit it obviously, but the option is there and at this point in time, countless many have done it.

 

Yeah I will never understand why Shareplay sessions are allowed on this page either. Without any standards and only a leaderboard that reflects how many trophies you've earned and nothing else, Trophy Hunting nowadays cannot be called competitive. People don't even need to earn all trophies by themselves, they can just buy plats. 

 

 

On 1.3.2020 at 2:31 AM, Jelly Soup said:

I know I said earlier that I figured this was something of an imaginary problem, something that only comes up in small discussions like this but is otherwise ignored by the majority.

But someone mentioned Necrodancer and realized I have seen examples of extreme gatekeeping there and with a couple other games considered to be super hard (Jamestown is another one, I think). I remember reading Discord logs from the community about how people will report any plat or sub-plat 100% for cheating if either the player won't show hard evidence of gameplay or the group otherwise thinks the player isn't 'good enough'. Forget arguments for/against rarity or doing some sort of easy mode trick, this is just out and out abusive behavior.

 

Abusive behavior? There are literally 5 people on the PS4 and about 10-15 players on Steam that got all NecroDancer achievements legit. You wanna tell me that it is abusive of those players to report cheaters that want to put themselves on equal level with those in that exclusive group? It's like expecting to join the MENSA club without doing an IQ-Test first. There is no bigger challenge in gaming than getting 100% on NecroDancer. If you claim that you are one of those players, you better be on the in-game Leaderboards. I don't know how that is abusive. 

[AJ_Radio]

3 minutes ago, Arcesius said:

Yeah I will never understand why Shareplay sessions are allowed on this page either. Without any standards and only a leaderboard that reflects how many trophies you've earned and nothing else, Trophy Hunting nowadays cannot be called competitive. People don't even need to earn all trophies by themselves, they can just buy plats.

 

I suspect that you are I are the same age, in fact I think we are because I looked at your profile a while back and you were born the same year I was.

 

Anyway, while I have used exploits in the past (Orb Glitch in Jak 2 and Jak 3), I still don't consider those borderline cheating. Yes, it's taking the easy way out, but it's definitely not putting custom timestamps on your Vita to earn illegitimate trophies. Or as Share Play basically does, get somebody to get a trophy for you when you can easily get that trophy done yourself through time and dedication.

 

To be honest with you, competition in trophy hunting went out the door once stacks of games started coming in and Sony dropped their quality standard to make way for shovelware crap that basically originated from Steam onto the PS4. I don't see stacking hundeds of games and paying for platinums to be any sort of competition, those are extremely low standards.

 

Games back in 2008 thru 2013 or so had a standard. But since Orc Slayer and My Name is Mayo, there is no standard. Sadly, Sony couldn't care less.

[Lonemankane]

46 minutes ago, Spaz said:

 

I suspect that you are I are the same age, in fact I think we are because I looked at your profile a while back and you were born the same year I was.

 

Anyway, while I have used exploits in the past (Orb Glitch in Jak 2 and Jak 3), I still don't consider those borderline cheating. Yes, it's taking the easy way out, but it's definitely not putting custom timestamps on your Vita to earn illegitimate trophies. Or as Share Play basically does, get somebody to get a trophy for you when you can easily get that trophy done yourself through time and dedication.

 

To be honest with you, competition in trophy hunting went out the door once stacks of games started coming in and Sony dropped their quality standard to make way for shovelware crap that basically originated from Steam onto the PS4. I don't see stacking hundeds of games and paying for platinums to be any sort of competition, those are extremely low standards.

 

Games back in 2008 thru 2013 or so had a standard. But since Orc Slayer and My Name is Mayo, there is no standard. Sadly, Sony couldn't care less.

I agree with ya a lot, I think a lot of the crapy games you see on ps4 in terms of easy to plat games to be bad. I mean am half way in back in 1995 and I tell you know it is crap, it does not feel like it was like silent hill more like re1 with crapy floating enemies on the same kind of scale as the first alone in the dark. It sucks but no one cares as all they see is easy plats.

Edited March 2, 2020 by KANERKB

[TheHarryGamer99]

2 hours ago, Spaz said:

 

I suspect that you are I are the same age, in fact I think we are because I looked at your profile a while back and you were born the same year I was.

 

Anyway, while I have used exploits in the past (Orb Glitch in Jak 2 and Jak 3), I still don't consider those borderline cheating. Yes, it's taking the easy way out, but it's definitely not putting custom timestamps on your Vita to earn illegitimate trophies. Or as Share Play basically does, get somebody to get a trophy for you when you can easily get that trophy done yourself through time and dedication.

 

To be honest with you, competition in trophy hunting went out the door once stacks of games started coming in and Sony dropped their quality standard to make way for shovelware crap that basically originated from Steam onto the PS4. I don't see stacking hundeds of games and paying for platinums to be any sort of competition, those are extremely low standards.

 

Games back in 2008 thru 2013 or so had a standard. But since Orc Slayer and My Name is Mayo, there is no standard. Sadly, Sony couldn't care less.

 

Playing "bad" games for trophies with stacks has no value, besides if you want to be top of some leader board. I would agree with you on your take on using exploits and share play. It is fine to do so. It seems that the value of most games trophies have been lost and the only reason to play these games is clout in the rankings. Is it fun to play a basic game multiple times to stack them? I highly doubt it but what do Sony care as they get more money from these games.

 

[dmland12]

Trophies are just little prizes saying "hey, you did x, here you go!"  But, there are people who think they should still get them for not doing x.  And if you think otherwise, that's bad and elitist and "gatekeeping"?  LOL, am I going insane?

 

There's grey areas and we all probably draw them in different places, but it's not hard to understand that people who put more effort into something and got the same trophy as people who put in much less effort, might not really like the situation.  I totally get it.  I'll admit I'm a bit annoyed at that glitch that was found in Race the Sun.  I farmed every damn drop I needed in Terraria, even though most people are just passing stuff around in co-op to get those trophies.  And then I get people messaging me on PSN begging me to give them everything... in fact I had one again just recently for the first time in years.  It is annoying.  I try to politely say no, but they seem to always feel entitled to it.  I'm also planning to finish up Hollow Knight sometime soon-ish without the glitch, but of course, if anyone sees it on my profile later, they will probably just assume that I used the glitch.

 

On the other side, I have used some save scumming, especially in Titan Souls Iron Mode.  But, you know, there's at least a few out there that actually did do it without it and it sucks for them that we're just all put in the same pile.

 

It's not an easy problem to solve.  As others have mentioned, in speedrunning, you can just make different leaderboards with different rules.  But, that only works because there's video evidence of what's actually being done.  With trophies, there's often no way to tell if someone used glitches or save scumming or even just paid someone to share play it for them.

 

So, one thing I'll say, is that it doesn't do any good to get angry about it.  It is what it is, and the most important thing is to find an approach that you enjoy.  At least that way, whatever anyone else thinks about you (that you shouldn't shareplay, or that you shouldn't care what other people are doing, or that you shouldn't shouldn't whatever!), you can at least be happy with yourself.  

[Jelly Soup]

16 hours ago, Arcesius said:

 

Abusive behavior? There are literally 5 people on the PS4 and about 10-15 players on Steam that got all NecroDancer achievements legit. You wanna tell me that it is abusive of those players to report cheaters that want to put themselves on equal level with those in that exclusive group? It's like expecting to join the MENSA club without doing an IQ-Test first. There is no bigger challenge in gaming than getting 100% on NecroDancer. If you claim that you are one of those players, you better be on the in-game Leaderboards. I don't know how that is abusive. 

 

You seemed to have misinterpreted my point. Might be my fault due to poor wording.

The abuse comes from people harassing players who even approach 100% or state they are attempting to.

There's a stark difference between saying "It's hard, so good luck" or "You're cheating, here is proof" and "I don't think you're good enough, I'm going to report your shit at every step".

 

We saw this happen in the Steam achievement hunting community over Jamestown. Because the game is notoriously difficult at the highest challenge setting, people were watching the leaderboards like hawks. It came down to anyone even approaching half way was labeled a cheater for any reason that could be invented, the most popular one being "I don't think this player is good enough, so they must be cheating" with no actual proof. It started stagnating as no one was willing to each try to 100% the game because they just didn't want to deal with all that crap.

 

Let me be clear that I'm not saying watching the boards and weeding out cheaters is in any way a bad thing. That's not gatekeeping, that's the community preforming it's due diligence. When it moves on to accusing players of cheating with no proof, discouraging honest attempts so as to protect a trophies worth or otherwise just bullying other players that we've crossed over into gatekeeping.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Jelly Soup

[AJ_Radio]

2 hours ago, dmland12 said:

snip

 

The fact that we’re even here posting what is truthfully nonsensical bullshit and made a forum account here shows we care more than most. 

 

I agree with you for the most part. However I’ve been gaming long before trophies ever existed, so even if the entire system were to up and die, I’ll have plenty of stuff on Steam to look forward to. 

 

This is a good example of a sign of the times. I have spent the past few years trophy hunting because it keeps me motivated from all the bullshit in the real world. I’m planning to move out of America in due time if things continue at their current direction. I still get much fun and satisfaction out of trophies. 

 

But when it comes to what we formally state as cheating and what we state is perfectly fine, there is no real right answer. Even trivial things like an aspect of trophy hunting are blown out of proportion as I saw when my thread last year regarding the leaderboards turned into a Me vs Everyone Else flame war. People just assumed I’m a guy who was whining when I was trying to make a valid opinion. 

 

1 hour ago, Jelly Soup said:

 

You seemed to have misinterpreted my point. Might be my fault due to poor wording.

The abuse comes from people harassing players who even approach 100% or state they are attempting to.

There's a stark difference between saying "It's hard, so good luck" or "You're cheating, here is proof" and "I don't think you're good enough, I'm going to report your shit at every step".

 

We saw this happen in the Steam achievement hunting community over Jamestown. Because the game is notoriously difficult at the highest challenge setting, people were watching the leaderboards like hawks. It came down to anyone even approaching half way was labeled a cheater for any reason that could be invented, the most popular one being "I don't think this player is good enough, so they must be cheating" with no actual proof. It started stagnating as no one was willing to each try to 100% the game because they just didn't want to deal with all that crap.

 

Let me be clear that I'm not saying watching the boards and weeding out cheaters is in any way a bad thing. That's not gatekeeping, that's the community preforming it's due diligence. When it moves on to accusing players of cheating with no proof, discouraging honest attempts so as to protect a trophies worth or otherwise just bullying other players that we've crossed over into gatekeeping.

 

They do it because they want to get a reaction out of people. 

 

But what this really is, is over sensitivity. 

 

People need to grow up and stop assuming that those who are “good” at something like Jamestown Plus are cheaters. 

 

I’ve said my thoughts on Share Play and I know some people don’t agree with me on it. I have actual friends who used it and it’s more than easy to play for someone else for a trophy. That’s all I’m going to say. 

[Jelly Soup]

37 minutes ago, Spaz said:

They do it because they want to get a reaction out of people. 

 

This, mostly likely. I'd have to assume if people were actually reporting profiles for stuff like that at the frequency they imply, an annoyed mod team would eventually put their foot down.

[AJ_Radio]

Just now, Jelly Soup said:

 

This, mostly likely. I'd have to assume if people were actually reporting profiles for stuff like that at the frequency they imply, an annoyed mod team would eventually put their foot down.

 

Jamestown does look pretty freaking awesome, if I had more time I would play it. 

[Jelly Soup]

1 minute ago, Spaz said:

 

Jamestown does look pretty freaking awesome, if I had more time I would play it. 

 

It has a really awesome OST as well. Highly recommend.

[JohnCenaSong-]

On 01/03/2020 at 1:31 AM, Jelly Soup said:

I remember reading Discord logs from the community about how people will report any plat or sub-plat 100% for cheating if either the player won't show hard evidence of gameplay or the group otherwise thinks the player isn't 'good enough'.

 

I didn't know that was a thing, sounds pretty pathetic to me. Not everyone constantly livestreams or records their gameplay, and some people are super talented. It's completely plausible that someone outside of their established 'good enough' club can complete a game they found hard, for anyone to just try and instantly label a talented hard working player a cheater after they busted their ass off to beat something hard is rather sad, hopefully mods disregard that kind of nonsense and we don't have players removed for just believing they're 'not good enough'.

 

I remember once seeing somewhere on this very forum one instance of something similar, I think it was the fastest achiever(?) for a game publicly accused and shamed either the new fastest achiever or someone close to their time of cheating for pretty much no other reason than not believing someone else could do it as well as they did, ego much? Can't remember which game it was, but I don't think many people had beat it. I do remember the person came and proved their innocence (which they didn't have to come and do honestly, it was a pointless accusation).

[AJ_Radio]

2 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

I didn't know that was a thing, sounds pretty pathetic to me. Not everyone constantly livestreams or records their gameplay, and some people are super talented. It's completely plausible that someone outside of their established 'good enough' club can complete a game they found hard, for anyone to just try and instantly label a talented hard working player a cheater after they busted their ass off to beat something hard is rather sad, hopefully mods disregard that kind of nonsense and we don't have players removed for just believing they're 'not good enough'.

 

This is definitely something I've noticed more and more in recent times. There are people out there who are more talented than I'll ever be, but I certainly won't do like these idiots have in labeling these people who are clearly very skilled.

 

Jamestown is a solid indie shmup, but it definitely looks a bit too difficult for my tastes. I'm not very good at shmups.

 

2 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

I remember once seeing somewhere on this very forum one instance of something similar, I think it was the fastest achiever(?) for a game publicly accused and shamed either the new fastest achiever or someone close to their time of cheating for pretty much no other reason than not believing someone else could do it as well as they did, ego much? Can't remember which game it was, but I don't think many people had beat it. I do remember the person came and proved their innocence (which they didn't have to come and do honestly, it was a pointless accusation).

 

I may of heard about this but it's been too long ago now for me to recall exactly what was going on.

[Lonemankane]

4 hours ago, Spaz said:

 

The fact that we’re even here posting what is truthfully nonsensical bullshit and made a forum account here shows we care more than most. 

 

I agree with you for the most part. However I’ve been gaming long before trophies ever existed, so even if the entire system were to up and die, I’ll have plenty of stuff on Steam to look forward to. 

 

This is a good example of a sign of the times. I have spent the past few years trophy hunting because it keeps me motivated from all the bullshit in the real world. I’m planning to move out of America in due time if things continue at their current direction. I still get much fun and satisfaction out of trophies. 

 

But when it comes to what we formally state as cheating and what we state is perfectly fine, there is no real right answer. Even trivial things like an aspect of trophy hunting are blown out of proportion as I saw when my thread last year regarding the leaderboards turned into a Me vs Everyone Else flame war. People just assumed I’m a guy who was whining when I was trying to make a valid opinion. 

 

They do it because they want to get a reaction out of people. 

 

To me as I have said before I get why people would think someone was cheating and so on but to go after others for being basically jelly that someone is better than them is what seems to be what is happening more lately then ever now.

 

However I like to ask you and everyone else here what their thoughts on making some kind of odd like club or attack others for their in their eyes lack of skill for doing something such as say the plat to killzone 2 when it was still able to be gotten or the plat wolfenstein 2 nc and so on or people who don't stop talking about how great they are at so on and so on and would up and quit on you if you just mess up once at trying the game such as say the people who do ninja gaiden 2. not sure what you call them but stuff like that would that fall in the same pot as gate keeping.

Edited March 3, 2020 by KANERKB

[Arcesius]

7 hours ago, Jelly Soup said:

You seemed to have misinterpreted my point. Might be my fault due to poor wording.

The abuse comes from people harassing players who even approach 100% or state they are attempting to.

There's a stark difference between saying "It's hard, so good luck" or "You're cheating, here is proof" and "I don't think you're good enough, I'm going to report your shit at every step".

 

We saw this happen in the Steam achievement hunting community over Jamestown. Because the game is notoriously difficult at the highest challenge setting, people were watching the leaderboards like hawks. It came down to anyone even approaching half way was labeled a cheater for any reason that could be invented, the most popular one being "I don't think this player is good enough, so they must be cheating" with no actual proof. It started stagnating as no one was willing to each try to 100% the game because they just didn't want to deal with all that crap.

 

My bad then ? Maybe I have just been lucky thus far, but in all the games I've attempted to complete, I've never gotten anything but encouragement from the community. That being said, I'm not active on discord, so I wasn't aware of a behavior such as what you are describing. That's indeed pathetic and should not be tolerated. 

 

 

9 hours ago, dmland12 said:

I'm also planning to finish up Hollow Knight sometime soon-ish without the glitch, but of course, if anyone sees it on my profile later, they will probably just assume that I used the glitch.

 

Maybe some people will, but those that have been following you here on PSNP will know that you did it legit, don't worry ? And as you say, you will know, and can be happy about it. 

 

 

Quote

So, one thing I'll say, is that it doesn't do any good to get angry about it.  It is what it is, and the most important thing is to find an approach that you enjoy.  At least that way, whatever anyone else thinks about you (that you shouldn't shareplay, or that you shouldn't care what other people are doing, or that you shouldn't shouldn't whatever!), you can at least be happy with yourself.  

 

Absolutely. And I would never have started a discussion about this topic. I have found a couple of people here on PSNP that I interact with on a regular basis, that share my mindset when it comes to approaching challenging games or their choice of games to play, see for example all those players that joined the UR cleanup event... It's fantastic seeing so many people enjoy overcoming some challenge, or just playing games with "having fun" as their main priority. I guess such sub-groups always form within a community. 

 

But since the question was asked, I thought it would be good to engage in a healthy discussion about the "grey zone"... What is and what's not considered cheating... At the moment, this site seems to make the rules, but those can always be changed. 

 

 

2 hours ago, KANERKB said:

To me as I have said before I get why people would think someone was cheating and so on but to go after others for being basically jelly that someone is better than them is what seems to be what is happening more lately then ever now.

 

However I like to ask you and everyone else here what their thoughts on making some kind of odd like club or attack others for their in their eyes lack of skill for doing something such as say the plat to killzone 2 when it was still able to be gotten or the plat wolfenstein 2 nc and so on or people who don't stop talking about how great they are at so on and so on and would up and quit on you if you just mess up once at trying the game such as say the people who do ninja gaiden 2. not sure what you call them but stuff like that would that fall in the same pot as gate keeping.

 

@KANERKB Sorry I needed to edit my post and couldn't quote you anymore:

 

Well, there is a huge difference between gatekeeping as we have been discussing thus far, it is another thing entirely to form groups purposefully to just harass people that are less skilled at something. That's not gatekeeping though, that's just being an asshole. 

 

Are you talking about PSNP though? I have yet to come across a topic where someone is just boasting about how good he/she is and how shit everyone else is.  

Edited March 3, 2020 by Arcesius

[Lonemankane]

8 hours ago, Arcesius said:

Well, there is a huge difference between gatekeeping as we have been discussing thus far, it is another thing entirely to form groups purposefully to just harass people that are less skilled at something. That's not gatekeeping though, that's just being an asshole. 

 

Are you talking about PSNP though? I have yet to come across a topic where someone is just boasting about how good he/she is and how shit everyone else is.  

 

Well I have seen this kind of thing happen where there is groups of people who call others shit and so on for just not doing the plat to some very hard games. I myself was called this as well by few people when I was trying to do the wolfenstein 2 and 3d dot game heroes but I placed them both on the back burner in as it was annoying me too much. Same kind of thing happened to few people I know who were doing a boost with others on games such as ninja gaiden 2 and nioh and dark souls.

 

People who formed a group saying they will help anyone who joins and say they are pros at it and so on and because you make a mistake or die and so on they drop you like a bag of marbles saying your wasting their time as your not doing something right and so on. I only ask if this is gate keeping as some people do this and they seem to only want to work with pros and if they do help you they start saying they took all the credit and so on and so on.

 

I know it is an asshole but would it fall under gate keeping as from what I can tell from their mind set their view must be the way of you will never be as skilled as me and the others who are like me and so on. so they bully you for it.

Edited March 3, 2020 by KANERKB

[TheHarryGamer99]

So what your saying is be inclusive and kind while online. Gate-keeping makes sense but, simply put no proof or cheating equals no reason to go after people.

[Sicho]

Unfortunately, Elitism is a thing in pretty much every community, hobby, scene etc... The Gaming Scene is no exception.

[Arcesius]

3 hours ago, TheHarryGamer99 said:

So what your saying is be inclusive and kind while online. Gate-keeping makes sense but, simply put no proof or cheating equals no reason to go after people.

 

Ï'm not sure who you are responding to, but sure ? There's no reason to not be nice to people you know, but there's even less of a reason to be an asshole to people you'v never even met. You never know who is on the other side of the conversation, what they went through, why the are how they are or do what they do. That has nothing to do with gatekeeping or gaming, though, that's human decency. 

 

In any case, I would argue that yes, gatekeeping, at least for me personally and for my probably selfish reasons, can make sense in certain situations, such as for instance to separate legitimacy from illigetimacy. 

 

 

6 hours ago, KANERKB said:

People who formed a group saying they will help anyone who joins and say they are pros at it and so on and because you make a mistake or die and so on they drop you like a bag of marbles saying your wasting their time as your not doing something right and so on. I only ask if this is gate keeping as some people do this and they seem to only want to work with pros and if they do help you they start saying they took all the credit and so on and so on.

 

1 hour ago, Sicho said:

Unfortunately, Elitism is a thing in pretty much every community, hobby, scene etc... The Gaming Scene is no exception.

 

Actually, I think "Elitism", which I agree is thrown around too easily, might be exactly what we are looking at in the scenario that @KANERKB describes. It might be a sub-form of gatekeeping, depending on how you look at it, but it is not a synonym. 

[TheHarryGamer99]

1 hour ago, Arcesius said:

 

Ï'm not sure who you are responding to, but sure  There's no reason to not be nice to people you know, but there's even less of a reason to be an asshole to people you'v never even met. You never know who is on the other side of the conversation, what they went through, why the are how they are or do what they do. That has nothing to do with gatekeeping or gaming, though, that's human decency. 

 

In any case, I would argue that yes, gatekeeping, at least for me personally and for my probably selfish reasons, can make sense in certain situations, such as for instance to separate legitimacy from illigetimacy. 

 

 

 

 

Actually, I think "Elitism", which I agree is thrown around too easily, might be exactly what we are looking at in the scenario that @KANERKB describes. It might be a sub-form of gatekeeping, depending on how you look at it, but it is not a synonym. 

 

The human decency aspect is a large part of gatekeeping but sadly the elitists will get the attention. Those who shouts loudest make the most noise.

[AJ_Radio]

The word “elitist” is thrown around just as casually and loosely as the term “toxic”. Getting sick of hearing these words, but I’ll describe my quick take on elitism. 

 

Elitism the way I see it is superiority. It branches across all aspects of entertainment. In gaming, elitists are those who think they’re better than someone else. 

[Sicho]

5 hours ago, Spaz said:

In gaming, elitists are those who think they’re better than someone else. 

 

that's too specific. Elitism is also when you think you have the authority to tell someone, what they should do or how they should behave etc. When you think up "rules" that "everyone" in the scene should follow (because, as you said, you think you are better than the others or you know better), that's a form of elitism.

 

For example: Elitism in the Punkrock Scene would be when you tell someone that he has to listen to this band and this band to "belong" and that the band he is listening to is not "true" punkrock or some BS like that.

 

This happens in gaming a lot as well.

 

"oh, mobile games aren't real games, you should play CS:GO on a competitive level or you are not really a gamer"

"oh Sims is a game for filthy casuals only, no real gamer would touch that"

 

and also
"if you don't play with this build and at least this much DPS etc. we won't take you with us because god forbid we would wipe and you could have a learning experience, git gud first and then come back"

all forms of elitism.

[Lonemankane]

2 minutes ago, Sicho said:

This happens in gaming a lot as well.

 

"oh, mobile games aren't real games, you should play CS:GO on a competitive level or you are not really a gamer"

"oh Sims is a game for filthy casuals only, no real gamer would touch that"

 

and also
"if you don't play with this build and at least this much DPS etc. we won't take you with us because god forbid we would wipe and you could have a learning experience, git gud first and then come back"

all forms of elitism.

But here is what I find strange. Is elitism also part of gate keeping as well? Like say your playing payday 2 and your wanting to use your own build to help the team as your a say mix of fast speed and putting down sentries to help defend and can control others to fight for you. you try to join someone and they say you need to bring so on and so on even though you don't have a build for it. And then, they kick you out saying your not good enough for the team or something else that is kind of the same on them lines.

 

In something such as that or say a better take would be Resident evil 2 remake. someone buys the dlc that gives you all the weapons that you normally have to earn and beat the game in say 3 hours or less and get a S rank on it and so on or say the devil may cry 5 short cut pack that gives you all the modes out the get go without having to unlock them such as the dante must die and heaven and hell mode and so on. As I have seen people complain and say your cheating yourself and the game even though it ain't really effecting anyone but the one who buys it.