Any possible legal explanation for online trophies with missing timestamp?

[glace-surface9]

Hi there,

 

I moderate a small discord of local LAN players/trophy hunters and we had a bit of a problem a few days ago. One of the guys has missing timestamps on multiple trophies of one PS3 game and only his platinum and few trophies earned a few days before the platinum have a timestamp of a few years ago. He was promptly accused of trophy editing and he said he had no idea what could have happened. And to be honest I want to believe him, as I've known him for years and he only has around 20 platinums.

 

I checked his case and he looks like he has 3 "online-only" trophies which are possibly not affected by the "dead internal clock" problem, and I'm unsure whether any DRM clock problem could occur. However, I've read online that people did get missing timestamps after crashes or system errors, which seems interesting. He also mentioned that the PS3 he got was second-hand when he got it and that it's been dead for years, but I don't think that changes anything.

 

So here's my question: is there any documented "legit" case where PS3 online-only trophies have missing timestamps, or is it 100% sure that any online-only trophy with missing timestamps has been hacked, and is there any research that backs up your claims? What's the policy on this community?

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

[HuntingFever]

The 2 main causes of missing timestamps are:

 

1: A dead or dying CMOS battery on the Motherboard.

2: Earning trophies without first signing into PSN after either buying a new console or formatting/replacing the Hard Drive.

 

Save file hacking can cause missing timestamps if that person doesn't know what they're doing but most of the time, the cause is one or both of the above. You have to be extremely careful when buying a second hand console, because there is a chance it will have CFW or other illicit software installed. In your friend's case though, the odds are it's a hacked save file because I don't know of any cases of online only trophies having missing timestamps via the methods mentioned above.

Edited November 25, 2021 by HuntingFever
Update.

[da-Noob123]

I have a large number of trophies affected by this. When I first started earning trophies, I did not have a regular internet access which means I had to set the date and time manually which I think plays a part in timestampping trophies. I no longer have my original PS3 which IIRC did record the date and time of trophies I unlocked when the time was set manually but that PS3 got the YLOD and I got a new one. When I finally got to connect online with the new PS3 and sync my profile those trophies now had no timestamp. 

 

TL;DR Not having a reliable/ consistent internet access messed with my PS3's timestamps.

 

Edit: Just noticed the online portion of the title and don't believe any of my online trophies were affected by what I stated above so disregard I guess.

Edited November 25, 2021 by da-Noob123

[Kishnabe]

Hope I never run into the CMOS battery issue. 

[Taliesin_2943]

Don't quote me on this but if the online trophies was earned on a guest account then the person officially logged into PSN after they was earned it's theoretically possible the system didn't know how to classify them 

 

For instance back in the day some folks didn't have highspeed or.internet but played games without a PSN I'd and because back then you didn't even need ps plus you could play as guest online without an Id so once the person officially got an account logged in with that data the system might not count there stamps 

 

 

From what I've gathered it's kinda hard to cheat trophies much less cheat time stamps and by all the cheat members and psnp members going ape over screwed time stamps the idea Someone cheated the trophies and went the extra mile to kill timestamps completely (and stupidly I'd think cause that's like putting your hand in pooling water and thinking no one would notice your burnt) really seems illogical

 

So to sum it up either your friend legitimately had a timestamp goof like he says or he's a mad genius hacker that quickly went into brain damage territory when it comes to time stamps

 

My personal opinion I'd buy that it's a genuine error and let it go cause no one's that smart and dumb at once lol

[DaivRules]

12 minutes ago, Taliesin_2943 said:

Don't quote me on this but if the online trophies was earned on a guest account then the person officially logged into PSN after they was earned it's theoretically possible the system didn't know how to classify them 

I don’t think there is any way to get a never connected Guest account online to play a game online as that would require signing in to PSN, which syncs the clock for trophy timestamps. 
 

[Mkoshar]

That's odd... Me too got alot of trophies without a timestamp because I was playing offline even a platinum ?....and all of them are story games there is no online trophies...and that frustrating tbh since I didn't know about missing the timestamp if I didn't log in 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Mkoshar

[diskdocx]

1 hour ago, da-Noob123 said:

I have a large number of trophies affected by this. When I first started earning trophies, I did not have a regular internet access which means I had to set the date and time manually which I think plays a part in timestampping trophies. I no longer have my original PS3 which IIRC did record the date and time of trophies I unlocked when the time was set manually but that PS3 got the YLOD and I got a new one. When I finally got to connect online with the new PS3 and sync my profile those trophies now had no timestamp. 

 

TL;DR Not having a reliable/ consistent internet access messed with my PS3's timestamps.

 

Edit: Just noticed the online portion of the title and don't believe any of my online trophies were affected by what I stated above so disregard I guess.

I’m not sure I understand this explanation. If you earned trophies on a console but never synced that console, then those trophies never registered on Sony’s servers. If that console died (YLOD), getting a new console and syncing your profile wouldn’t restore those trophies because you never registered them. If you had synced the earned trophies, the time stamps should be registered on Sonys side and once registered, I don’t think they can be changed? 
 

Or is this a PSNP issue causing the missing time stamps?

[da-Noob123]

21 minutes ago, diskdocx said:

I’m not sure I understand this explanation. If you earned trophies on a console but never synced that console, then those trophies never registered on Sony’s servers. If that console died (YLOD), getting a new console and syncing your profile wouldn’t restore those trophies because you never registered them. If you had synced the earned trophies, the time stamps should be registered on Sonys side and once registered, I don’t think they can be changed? 
 

Or is this a PSNP issue causing the missing time stamps?

How to explain? Hmm...

 

I created my profile at a cousins house who had internet which synced my time. At some point I lost power and set time manually, this I think is what messed with the timestamps. Eventually I was able to reconnect and sync up with PSN, at the time my PS3 showed my timestamps for all trophies as far as I can remember. Following the YLOD and getting a new PS3  I did lose trophies for games I never was able to sync with PSN. However, I am fairly certain trophies I unlocked when my clock had to be manually set lost the timestamps they originally had on my first PS3 and were replaced with "-" which gamesites label as Missing Timestamp.

 

Basically, I am speculating that trophies I earned when I had to manually set the console are not properly timestampped as the system wants it to be set by an internet connection. These timestamp issues all happened from like 2008-2012 so I could be forgetting something. Also, it is only my campaign/ single player trophies that are affected, I don't think what happened to me could happen with an MP trophy. 

[diskdocx]

14 minutes ago, da-Noob123 said:

How to explain? Hmm...

 

I created my profile at a cousins house who had internet which synced my time. At some point I lost power and set time manually, this I think is what messed with the timestamps. Eventually I was able to reconnect and sync up with PSN, at the time my PS3 showed my timestamps for all trophies as far as I can remember. Following the YLOD and getting a new PS3  I did lose trophies for games I never was able to sync with PSN. However, I am fairly certain trophies I unlocked when my clock had to be manually set lost the timestamps they originally had on my first PS3 and were replaced with "-" which gamesites label as Missing Timestamp.

 

Basically, I am speculating that trophies I earned when I had to manually set the console are not properly timestampped as the system wants it to be set by an internet connection. These timestamp issues all happened from like 2008-2012 so I could be forgetting something. Also, it is only my campaign/ single player trophies that are affected, I don't think what happened to me could happen with an MP trophy. 

I think all trophies earned on a console before  that console has ever been connected to the internet will have missing time stamps even if you set the time manually. The internal clock doesn’t initialize until the PS3 goes online. The local trophy data on the console may have a time, but once you sync, on Sonys end the trophies won’t have time stamps.

 

Accordingly, I don’t think it’s possible for an online trophy to have a missing time stamps, unless the trophy could be earned on a local network. I’m not sure what happens if a trophy is earned but the CMOS fails before a sync. I still don’t think the time stamp would be missing, as I think an update recently with the PS3 syncs trophies when they are earned if the PS3 is online - which it obviously would be if you’re earning an online trophy.

Edited November 25, 2021 by diskdocx

[B1rvine]

From the rules page:

Quote

 

"No Timestamp” - Trophies without timestamps are due to PlayStation system issues / limitations related to setting up a PSN ID online. Typically you shouldn't get flagged for this unless these are online-only trophies which could not be earned without previously setting up online PSN account.

 

 

@glace-surface9 it would help to know the game, in case there's a LAN mode or some obscure method available, but otherwise online only trophies where a PSN account is required should never have missing stamps. When you login, your Playstation syncs with the universal clock.

 

I can think of a theoretical method this could be "possible" with some games, without using CFW, but its cheating. 

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by B1rvine

[glace-surface9]

6 hours ago, B1rvine said:

From the rules page:

 

@glace-surface9 it would help to know the game, in case there's a LAN mode or some obscure method available, but otherwise online only trophies where a PSN account is required should never have missing stamps. When you login, your Playstation syncs with the universal clock.

 

I can think of a theoretical method this could be "possible" with some games, without using CFW, but its cheating. 

 

 

Thanks a lot for the answer. The game is Red Dead Redemption for PS3. Around 80% of the trophies are without timestamp but some are not, including the platinum.

 

Some of the trophies with missing timestamps are "Red Dead Rockstar" and "Most Wanted", which I've read cannot be earned in LAN Play.

 

What's the theoretical method you've mentioned and why would it still be cheating?

Also, could in theory a system error have lead to setting a "missing timestamp" to all previously earned trophies of a game?

 

Anyway, we have decided to remove my friend from the "trophies" channel for now, unless there is proof that he could have earned those trophies legitimately.

[SnowxSakura]

10 hours ago, da-Noob123 said:

How to explain? Hmm...

 

I created my profile at a cousins house who had internet which synced my time. At some point I lost power and set time manually, this I think is what messed with the timestamps. Eventually I was able to reconnect and sync up with PSN, at the time my PS3 showed my timestamps for all trophies as far as I can remember. Following the YLOD and getting a new PS3  I did lose trophies for games I never was able to sync with PSN. However, I am fairly certain trophies I unlocked when my clock had to be manually set lost the timestamps they originally had on my first PS3 and were replaced with "-" which gamesites label as Missing Timestamp.

 

Basically, I am speculating that trophies I earned when I had to manually set the console are not properly timestampped as the system wants it to be set by an internet connection. These timestamp issues all happened from like 2008-2012 so I could be forgetting something. Also, it is only my campaign/ single player trophies that are affected, I don't think what happened to me could happen with an MP trophy. 

Yeah, the clock you can manually change doesn't affect timestamps at all. There's a hidden clock that isn't accessible to users that is set the moment you connect to psn and as long as your CMOS battery isn't dead, you will get timestamps even playing offline

[Dark_Overlord]

I can think of one possible explanation, but that would depend on when they played the game.  What year are the rest of the timestamps?

[da-Noob123]

10 hours ago, SnowxSakura said:

Yeah, the clock you can manually change doesn't affect timestamps at all. There's a hidden clock that isn't accessible to users that is set the moment you connect to psn and as long as your CMOS battery isn't dead, you will get timestamps even playing offline

Ah, I see. Thank you for the explanation.

[glace-surface9]

On 25/11/2021 at 2:21 PM, Dark_Overlord said:

I can think of one possible explanation, but that would depend on when they played the game.  What year are the rest of the timestamps?

 

I just came back after the weekend and unluckily he seems to have enabled all possible privacy settings on his profile, as I can't see his trophies anymore. I guess that's not a surprise.

 

I told him I need to check one more thing before we can say whether we 100% think he has hacked the trophies, now I'm waiting for a reply.

 

What's your expanation?

[HuntingFever]

47 minutes ago, glace-surface9 said:

 

I just came back after the weekend and unluckily he seems to have enabled all possible privacy settings on his profile, as I can't see his trophies anymore. I guess that's not a surprise.

 

I told him I need to check one more thing before we can say whether we 100% think he has hacked the trophies, now I'm waiting for a reply.

 

What's your expanation?

If it's what I think he is referring to, it's the Leap Year apocalypse bug that struck a few years back and played merry hell with a lot of people's trophy lists until Sony released a firmware update to fix the problem but meant some trophies had to be redone from scratch to get them to re-pop.

Edited November 29, 2021 by HuntingFever
Update.

[Dark_Overlord]

3 hours ago, HuntingFever said:

If it's what I think he is referring to, it's the Leap Year apocalypse bug that struck a few years back and played merry hell with a lot of people's trophy lists until Sony released a firmware update to fix the problem but meant some trophies had to be redone from scratch to get them to re-pop.

 

Yep that's the one.  There was cases of trophy times being screwed, missing timestamps, etc etc  so if he played it in Feb/Mar 2010 then it is plausible.