Why Should I Never Store My Credit Card Info On PSN?

[ilumixZ]

Tbh I didn't even take offense to what damon said, i'm one of the people that did store my credit card with my psn account. I don't think he was actually calling us "dumb" people need to chill out lol. 

[JapanimeGamer]

No body (even me) said 'they don't care if they get hacked'.

You just quoted a load of posts of people saying what you have interpreted as them saying that, it only happened in your imagination... when in fact not one person actually said that.

What they did say (me included) is that we would likely be covered in the unfortunate event that we did lose money.

So you saying that you would laugh at people and would not care if anyone was hacked and lost their hard earned money really is a disgrace...

Edited November 19, 2015 by JapanimeGamer

[Matto_lsi]

I didn't put any words in your mouth?  Where did I tell you what you said?  I was only commenting on your point of laughing at people who got hacked and lost their account because they could have done something, which you literally said.  I have absorbed all of what you posted, and didn't miss out on any of it?  To add to that, how am I trying to prove you wrong?  You are entitled to your opinion, all I am doing is pointing out how it makes you sound like a bully and makes you not empathetic to your fellow man.  If that doesn't bother you, than what do you care?

 

In regards to the car accident scenario, please explain to me why you think the comparison makes no sense?  In both situations, you were warned that there was a risk involved.  In both situations you have other choices that you could do, albeit less convenient choices, but still other steps you could take to protect yourself.  In one, the psn hacking, you have claimed that because you have been given this warning, you have no right to complain about the problems that arise from not heeding the warning, and yet you stand by your defense of driving a car ...  How does that make sense?  You are now comparing "hood surfing down the freeway" to leaving your credit card info on psn ... Who is making the crazy comparisons now?  You are still more likely to be in a car accident than you are having your credit card info stolen from SONY and getting your account banned.

 

My entire point hinges around the fact that Sony's track record, and what happened to other people is all irrelevant.  It does not matter what warning you have, you are promised protection by a company that wants your money.  So when they protection doesn't come, or comes with strings, you have every right to complain.  You have clearly expressed that you would not care for your fellow man if that were to happen, because they could have taken extra steps, and you are more than welcome to that opinion.  But I am also more than welcome to point out how that makes you un-empathetic and in my opinion, terrible to your fellow man.

 

Getting hacked, not on you, just like getting into a car accident while wearing a seatbelt and driving safely isn't on you.

 

Refusing to protect yourself and your CC info by leaving them on your account is on you.  And if you get hacked in that state and file a chargeback for fraudulent purchases, Sony will ban you.  That ban is on you.  That's not like the above car accident example, that's more like driving recklessly without a seatbelt hanging out the window or riding on the hood.  There's safe driving practices compared to driving recklessly or doing dangerous things on the road, same as there are safe measures you can take when making online purchases.  To say you don't care about one is like saying you don't care about wearing your seatbelt or driving safely.  If you die in an accident under those pretenses, it's your fault.  Just like losing your PSN account by filing a chargeback is your fault.

 

You all want everyone else to be accountable for everything, even your actions.  If you don't want to remove your CC info, that's on you.  And if you get hacked and have to file a chargeback, then that sucks, and I hope you get your money back.  But when your account gets banned cause of it, you have no one to complain to because you knew the risks.  You knew if you got hacked you'd have to file a chargeback.  The safe thing to do is remove the card or use PSN cards.  Then if you get hacked, you don't need to file a chargeback.  Then you can change your password and email and not lose your account to a Sony ban.

 

Or you can keep saying I'm evil cause in that situation I would hold you accountable for YOUR mistake. lol

No body (even me) said 'they don't care if they get hacked'.

You just quoted a load of posts of people saying what you have interpreted as them saying that, it only happened in your imagination... when in fact not one person actually said that.

What they did say (me included) is that we would likely be covered in the unfortunate event that we did lose money.

So you saying that you would laugh at people and would not care if anyone was hacked and lost their hard earned money really is a disgrace...

 

Since you've never once read what I said properly on this thread, I'll chalk this one up to illiteracy.  From your very first reply you failed to grasp the concept and immediately jumped to incorrect conclusions.  I've tried to explain it to you numerous times, but you don't get it.  That's fine.  I no longer wish to bat the same dead horse when you can't even read the words in front of you.

[JapanimeGamer]

That's fine, thank you for another insult.

Now can you please please please quote someone (anyone) in this thread that has once said the following words...

'I don't care if I get hacked'.

Instead of trying to be smart, which to be honest is not working.

[Sir_Bee]

Getting hacked, not on you, just like getting into a car accident while wearing a seatbelt and driving safely isn't on you.

 

Refusing to protect yourself and your CC info by leaving them on your account is on you.  And if you get hacked in that state and file a chargeback for fraudulent purchases, Sony will ban you.  That ban is on you.  That's not like the above car accident example, that's more like driving recklessly without a seatbelt hanging out the window or riding on the hood.  There's safe driving practices compared to driving recklessly or doing dangerous things on the road, same as there are safe measures you can take when making online purchases.  To say you don't care about one is like saying you don't care about wearing your seatbelt or driving safely.  If you die in an accident under those pretenses, it's your fault.  Just like losing your PSN account by filing a chargeback is your fault.

 

You all want everyone else to be accountable for everything, even your actions.  If you don't want to remove your CC info, that's on you.  And if you get hacked and have to file a chargeback, then that sucks, and I hope you get your money back.  But when your account gets banned cause of it, you have no one to complain to because you knew the risks.  You knew if you got hacked you'd have to file a chargeback.  The safe thing to do is remove the card or use PSN cards.  Then if you get hacked, you don't need to file a chargeback.  Then you can change your password and email and not lose your account to a Sony ban.

 

Or you can keep saying I'm evil cause in that situation I would hold you accountable for YOUR mistake. lol

 

And this is exactly why we cannot have this conversation, because we have two very different opinions on the same basic fact.  So I will sum up my opinion in one sentence.  It is a point you disagree with, which is fine, but that doesn't change a single word that I have said anywhere in this conversation.

 

If Sony offers us a service for online purchasing and protection for our accounts, which they do, it is NOT on us if we use their service to the fullest.

[starcrunch061]

Good question, I'm glad you asked. I'm sure everyone is not dumb enough to store their credit/debit card on PSN, but in case you are then behold this masterpiece.

 

If someone steals your info, don't let it be because of something you did/didn't do.

 

This doesn't even make any sense. He can just report the false charges to the credit card. He doesn't need Sony to reimburse him (and why would they, anyway)?

[Sir_Bee]

This doesn't even make any sense. He can just report the false charges to the credit card. He doesn't need Sony to reimburse him (and why would they, anyway)?

right, but then his account gets banned.  That is the problem.

[starcrunch061]

right, but then his account gets banned.  That is the problem.

 

Why would his account get banned? I mean, it's hacked, so it's already compromised, so in some sense he's out of luck there. But why can't he just change his password? What is the "banning" offense here?

 

I'll admit that I don't know the particulars of Sony's policy here, but a blanket "If you're hacked, you're banned" policy seems to make little sense from a company that managed to get its network hacked, as well as its system.

[Sir_Bee]

Why would his account get banned? I mean, it's hacked, so it's already compromised, so in some sense he's out of luck there. But why can't he just change his password? What is the "banning" offense here?

 

I'll admit that I don't know the particulars of Sony's policy here, but a blanket "If you're hacked, you're banned" policy seems to make little sense from a company that managed to get its network hacked, as well as its system.

 

Sony has a habit of banning any accounts that have a "chargeback" which is what would happen when you report the fraudulent charges to your credit card company.

[DaivRules]

The day we all can't put our financial information on our PSN accounts is the day the terrorists have WON!

 

...What are we talking about here?

[Matto_lsi]

And this is exactly why we cannot have this conversation, because we have two very different opinions on the same basic fact.  So I will sum up my opinion in one sentence.  It is a point you disagree with, which is fine, but that doesn't change a single word that I have said anywhere in this conversation.

 

If Sony offers us a service for online purchasing and protection for our accounts, which they do, it is NOT on us if we use their service to the fullest.

 

I never once mentioned my point of view on it.  Sony bans your account if you file a chargeback.  That we can agree on.  Though I have never said this, I don't agree with Sony's stance in this case, which ironically we both also agree on.  My point is, KNOWING Sony will ban your account, why would you ever leave your CC info on your account?  Yes, it's Sony's fault if you get hacked (well, unless you account share or something), but KNOWING Sony will ban you when you file a chargeback, it's totally your fault for not removing your card.  Just cause you disagree with Sony doesn't mean anything, you're not gonna change their minds.  So protect yourself, and your account, where you can.  I'm not sure how I can be more clear about this.  We don't disagree with each other on any point other than this one.  And to say you're gonna leave your CC info up there to what, be rebellious? means you are risking your PSN account to take a stand against something you could never win.

 

That's fine, thank you for another insult.

Now can you please please please quote someone (anyone) in this thread that has once said the following words...

'I don't care if I get hacked'.

Instead of trying to be smart, which to be honest is not working.

 

See, here's the irony, why should I find anyone who said those words specifically?  From the start I never once said anything about simply being hacked.  My point was, is, and always has been that if you leave your CC info up there and get hacked and then must filed chargebacks, the loss of your account is on you because you could have removed the CC info and never run into this mess in the first place.  And I already provided you with tons of quotes from people who said if they get hacked, their CC company will bail them out.  Either through chargebacks (= account ban) or as you mentioned, by relying on your CC company to flag the purchase before it goes through.  Ironically, you've never had your card used without your consent, because that protection almost never prevents the first charge from going through.  It usually only stops subsequent charges once the CC company identifies unusual behavior.  A single purchase, even if never made from that company before, doesn't usually qualify for this.  Even those who are ultra conservative with their CC spending usually don't have these purchases flagged until 1 or more go through.  The reason for this is because of the value.  If someone buys a game or two or recharges your wallet, that's under $100, probably won't be flagged the first time.  If that's what you're relying on, then you're probably gonna be on the losing end if someone hacks your account.  And just to be clear, just because you don't use the words 'I don't care if I get hacked', doesn't mean the implication isn't there when you say 'if it happens my CC company will _____', whether that be stop the charge, reverse the charge, etc... it doesn't matter.  Once you get to the point your CC company is involved, Sony has now banned your account.  Removing your CC info prevents that as you never need to get them involved.  If you can't understand that point, which is the only point I've ever made, then god help you.  I've now said it at least half a dozen times, and not once have you acknowledged it.  I can't imagine my words are unclear enough at this point, so that's why I assumed you just couldn't understand me.  Any other argument from you is just you wanting to fight online, as there is no denying that if you file a chargeback, you can expect Sony to ban your account.  Bans are next to impossible to lift, and if this happens to you, you lose your PSN account.  What you seem to be saying is you're totally cool with that.  Maybe you don't care about your account, but maybe others do.  To blindly say you're protected against fraud without considering the loss of your account is naive at best.  Get mad at me all you want, if you ever get hacked, you'll get to spend your time mad at Sony.  I hope it doesn't happen to you, but if it does, and you lose your account, I will laugh at you.  Call it callous, but you've had more than enough warnings at this point to know the risks of leaving your CC info attached to your PSN account.  But I fully expect you to again come back wanting me to find someone who specifically wrote 5 words instead of accepting the fact that not protecting yourself could have dire consequences.

[starcrunch061]

Sony has a habit of banning any accounts that have a "chargeback" which is what would happen when you report the fraudulent charges to your credit card company.

 

That is a really lazy, shitty business practice. Unsurprising, given that it's Sony, and gamers seem to accept anything handed to them, but incredibly shitty.

And this is exactly why we cannot have this conversation, because we have two very different opinions on the same basic fact.  So I will sum up my opinion in one sentence.  It is a point you disagree with, which is fine, but that doesn't change a single word that I have said anywhere in this conversation.

 

If Sony offers us a service for online purchasing and protection for our accounts, which they do, it is NOT on us if we use their service to the fullest.

 

Yeah, I'm with Mr. Bee here. It's not ridiculous to put credit card information on an account that (supposedly) protects this.

[damon8r351]

Another example of why you shouldn't have your billing info online? Sure. Good thing he caught it in time, no? Some people aren't so lucky.

[Sir_Bee]

I never once mentioned my point of view on it.  Sony bans your account if you file a chargeback.  That we can agree on.  Though I have never said this, I don't agree with Sony's stance in this case, which ironically we both also agree on.  My point is, KNOWING Sony will ban your account, why would you ever leave your CC info on your account?  Yes, it's Sony's fault if you get hacked (well, unless you account share or something), but KNOWING Sony will ban you when you file a chargeback, it's totally your fault for not removing your card.  Just cause you disagree with Sony doesn't mean anything, you're not gonna change their minds.  So protect yourself, and your account, where you can.  I'm not sure how I can be more clear about this.  We don't disagree with each other on any point other than this one.  And to say you're gonna leave your CC info up there to what, be rebellious? means you are risking your PSN account to take a stand against something you could never win.

 

Alright, I can see your logic right up until "take a stand against something you could never win".  I would argue that more people should make a bigger deal about this rather than just not using their service.  I bet most people who stood up and demanded change were told at some point they couldn't change anything.  It isn't reasonable for Sony to make us suffer because they couldn't protect our information.  And because of that, I still disagree with the idea that you would laugh at anyone who ends up with a banned account and that they shouldn't come back here to complain.  Not only should they complain, but every other Sony customer should hop on that wagon and complain with them.

[JapanimeGamer]

Look, this is stupid with me asking you to show me where you said such and such, and you saying something else, its just stupid and immature, so I wont carry on with it, its needless and I wish I hadnt trod that ground in the first place because of that.

I must be honest and say I have only three parts read your last post as I am juggling half a dozen chores at the same time but the tone of it seemed a lot more civil and I didn't see any insults, and that's how this should be between us.

Just for the record, in the past 12 years I have had to change my debit card twice as on 2 separate occasions I had my bank cards details stolen, I only knew about this from 2 separate phone calls from my bank, they didn't ask me anything, they basically told me everything, and that they had cancelled my card for suspicious out of character activity.

I cannot remember the first occasion too well now but the last time was about 3 years ago where large amounts of beer and cigarettes were bought in London (I still had my card) so the bank cancelled any further transactions...

They told me where I had last made transactions and for how much (this was there proof that they were who they said they were) and I had to confirm the ones I knew about... the last one I did myself was at a 24hr petrol station for petrol... it seems the cards details were taken this way.

Now despite that, I still do have my details on PSN. It might not be clever, it might be lazy, call it what you will, but I feel relatively safe and I trust my bank to get things right and fast.

There is only so much you can do, every time you use your card at a cash machine you are trusting it, every time you use your card in a shop (like I did) you are trusting it, its the same with PSN.

If I heard that PSN accounts were getting hacked here there and everywhere I would delete my details, but I don't see this happening in any abundance, and believe me, if it was happening a lot we would hear about it.

I hope we can move on and put things aside.

[Matto_lsi]

Alright, I can see your logic right up until "take a stand against something you could never win".  I would argue that more people should make a bigger deal about this rather than just not using their service.  I bet most people who stood up and demanded change were told at some point they couldn't change anything.  It isn't reasonable for Sony to make us suffer because they couldn't protect our information.  And because of that, I still disagree with the idea that you would laugh at anyone who ends up with a banned account and that they shouldn't come back here to complain.  Not only should they complain, but every other Sony customer should hop on that wagon and complain with them.

 

Sure thing, but equal rights for women or minorities is/was much more of a nationwide/global issue than Sony's fine line on chargebacks.  I agree with you that it's wrong for them to take away your purchased goods, and that maybe someday enough pressure will be put on them to change it.  However, as it is now, their policies are air-tight due to how digital products are seen (a revokable license more akin to renting vs buying a game itself) in their TOS.  Legally, they do have the rights they enforce.   So until that changes, I won't risk my account.  For those who are unaware, yeah, I feel bad for them, cause they didn't know.  But no one in this topic has that excuse.  I'd rather remove a CC and fight the good fight then leave my CC up there and risk losing my account.  You'd do more with a petition than simply leaving your CC info on your account.  That's not gonna help you either way.  And until someone, the supreme court in the US maybe, tells Sony that digital products are in fact seen the same as tangible goods, they will continue keeping game licenses when they ban accounts.  I just can't help but feel no sympathy for anyone who knowingly goes into that situation.  Knowing the risks makes you more informed, but to me, it also makes you more accountable when you engage in that risky behavior.  And with Sony's terrible track-record with security, giving them the benefit of the doubt in any way is risky, especially giving them your CC info and expecting them to keep it safe.  Still on them if you get hacked, but you're screwed if the hacker uses your linked CC.  Either you suck up the charges and keep your account, or you reverse them and lose your account.  Seems like a terrible choice to have to make when it is avoidable.

 

Of course the likelihood that you get hacked is probably slim, but I always prefer to be prepared when I can.

Look, this is stupid with me asking you to show me where you said such and such, and you saying something else, its just stupid and immature, so I wont carry on with it, its needless and I wish I hadnt trod that ground in the first place because of that.

I must be honest and say I have only three parts read your last post as I am juggling half a dozen chores at the same time but the tone of it seemed a lot more civil and I didn't see any insults, and that's how this should be between us.

Just for the record, in the past 12 years I have had to change my debit card twice as on 2 separate occasions I had my bank cards details stolen, I only knew about this from 2 separate phone calls from my bank, they didn't ask me anything, they basically told me everything, and that they had cancelled my card for suspicious out of character activity.

I cannot remember the first occasion too well now but the last time was about 3 years ago where large amounts of beer and cigarettes were bought in London (I still had my card) so the bank cancelled any further transactions...

They told me where I had last made transactions and for how much (this was there proof that they were who they said they were) and I had to confirm the ones I knew about... the last one I did myself was at a 24hr petrol station for petrol... it seems the cards details were taken this way.

Now despite that, I still do have my details on PSN. It might not be clever, it might be lazy, call it what you will, but I feel relatively safe and I trust my bank to get things right and fast.

There is only so much you can do, every time you use your card at a cash machine you are trusting it, every time you use your card in a shop (like I did) you are trusting it, its the same with PSN.

If I heard that PSN accounts were getting hacked here there and everywhere I would delete my details, but I don't see this happening in any abundance, and believe me, if it was happening a lot we would hear about it.

I hope we can move on and put things aside.

 

Ok, that's the thing.  All boiled down I have only 1 point.  Are you comfortable with losing your PSN account?  You rely on your CC company to right the charges, but Sony will almost definitely ban your account if that happens.  That's all I'm trying to get at here.  As Sir Bee and I agree on, it's a terrible business practice, but Sony does do this.  So while you won't lose money if you chargeback, you'll lose your PSN account and your prior purchased games.  If you can live with that, then there's no discussion.  I personally would not be ok with losing my account, but that's a consideration each individual has to make.

[JapanimeGamer]

If it was just my PSN account, well, its not the end of the world, I wouldn't openly give it away of course but to be honest in my life I have many more important things than my PSN account, maybe this is why my stance is slightly different perhaps.

I wouldn't wish anyone to lose any money or to get hacked.

Edited November 19, 2015 by JapanimeGamer

[Sir_Bee]

Sure thing, but equal rights for women or minorities is/was much more of a nationwide/global issue than Sony's fine line on chargebacks.  I agree with you that it's wrong for them to take away your purchased goods, and that maybe someday enough pressure will be put on them to change it.  However, as it is now, their policies are air-tight due to how digital products are seen (a revokable license more akin to renting vs buying a game itself) in their TOS.  Legally, they do have the rights they enforce.   So until that changes, I won't risk my account.  For those who are unaware, yeah, I feel bad for them, cause they didn't know.  But no one in this topic has that excuse.  I'd rather remove a CC and fight the good fight then leave my CC up there and risk losing my account.  You'd do more with a petition than simply leaving your CC info on your account.  That's not gonna help you either way.  And until someone, the supreme court in the US maybe, tells Sony that digital products are in fact seen the same as tangible goods, they will continue keeping game licenses when they ban accounts.  I just can't help but feel no sympathy for anyone who knowingly goes into that situation.  Knowing the risks makes you more informed, but to me, it also makes you more accountable when you engage in that risky behavior.  And with Sony's terrible track-record with security, giving them the benefit of the doubt in any way is risky, especially giving them your CC info and expecting them to keep it safe.  Still on them if you get hacked, but you're screwed if the hacker uses your linked CC.  Either you suck up the charges and keep your account, or you reverse them and lose your account.  Seems like a terrible choice to have to make when it is avoidable.

 

Of course the likelihood that you get hacked is probably slim, but I always prefer to be prepared when I can.

 

Alright, I can see all of that.  I guess I just live more on the optimistic side of things.  I choose to trust in a system, that even though it has failed in the past for others, has never let me down.  Now I can understand how that would make me sound a little moronic, but it has done me well in my life so far, just waiting for that day when it all comes crashing down.  Until then, and honestly likely after then too, I chose to believe in people and the system, and I will feel bad for anyone who has had that trust they shared broken.

If it was just my PSN account, well, its not the end of the world, I wouldn't openly give it away of course but to be honest in my life I have many more important things than my PSN account, maybe this is why my stance is slightly different perhaps.

I wouldn't wish anyone to lose money or to get hacked, no-one.

 

If you wished it upon someone, you are a terrible person.  There is a difference between not wishing it upon someone, and not feeling bad for them after it happens though.  You can not wish it on them, but not sympathize with them either.

[JapanimeGamer]

Yes I know, I was referring to a post or two made previously where Matto said he would laugh at people in this thread who got hacked...

That really hit a bad nerve with me and does not sit well.

[Sir_Bee]

Yes I know, I was referring to a post or two made previously where Matto said he would laugh at people in this thread who got hacked...

That really hit a bad nerve with me and does not sit well.

 

I agree, and my response assumed you were referring to that.  There is still a difference, and he never said he wished it on them, he just had no sympathy for them afterwards.  While I still disagree with his sentiment, I have to admit he never said he wished it on anyone.

[PedrOTN-]

Personally I don't use my credit card on PSN. The best advise that you can take from this thread is that if you use a credit card and your account gets hacked, I'd suggest you do not contact Sony in order to void your account getting banned. Banks have insurance and reimburse charges up to $500 without involving the company where the fraudulent purchase was made. Cancel your credit card and fill out a fraudulent claims form. Keep in mind that certain banks have changed and updated their policies so this may be slightly different depending on the bank and location they operate from.

[FlareXV]

Good question, I'm glad you asked. I'm sure everyone is not dumb enough to store their credit/debit card on PSN, but in case you are then behold this masterpiece.

 

If someone steals your info, don't let it be because of something you did/didn't do.

 

 

Poof!

Edited November 21, 2015 by FlareXV