Kishnabe Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Wow, lol. Digital Homicide can sink lower than I though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowStar83x Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 That doesn't give you the ability to say whatever you want. Well, you can, but it doesn't mean they aren't consequences for things like libel or slander. Now, I'm not saying this is what happened or that Digital Homicide are in the right here, but they could potentially (I have no idea what the facts are in this story) have a case. Parker Fair enough, but if they're pissed off just over a crappy review...the fact they were able to censor it for a bit just doesn't fully sit right with me. Just seems like it's all so petty and for publicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavergray Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) You glossed over my entire point, but whatever. Opinions are formed from personal experience and education on a topic... not from other people's opinions. These YouTube videos and the scathing forum posts (that usually link to them) are basically the bottom of the barrel for "education" and "research"...albeit a functional way of saving money if you're terrified of potentially buying a bad game... but people, like you apparently, hold them in WAY too high of a regard. Dangerously high. Holding them in the same regard as people who have saved lives by speaking up. Which I suppose is probably why Digital Homicide see's Jim Sterlings opinions as so threatening. I guess they wouldn't have to (hell they probably wouldn't even be making games anymore) if people were smart enough to not buy their awful games on their own. (See, it's not completely off topic...) Your point is that people shouldn't rely on the opinions of people in YouTube videos, forum posts, and user/professional review to form their opinions on a game. Okay, where in the gaming sphere should they look for the info they need to form their opinions on a game they aren't sure about buying? You can't trust the developer and word of mouth is the same as a review. People shouldn't be forced to buy a bad game to know it's a bad game. I don't hold them in high of a regard, in fact I think their opinions are worthless most of the time and I'm not holding them in the same regard as people who have saved lives. I was using that situation as an example of the need of someone to step up for things to change. There are other ones I could have used, but I don't know if you have ever heard of those situation and almost everyone in the US knows about the water problem in Michigan. Edited March 18, 2016 by soultaker655 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrickenBiged Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Fair enough, but if they're pissed off just over a crappy review...the fact they were able to censor it for a bit just doesn't fully sit right with me. Just seems like it's all so petty and for publicity. They're not pissed off over just a crappy review. Their allegations (on their site at least) involve issues of harassment, defamation, etc. They're also trying to suggest that Jim should be forced to do something to "call off the mob" of people that go and leave internet hate all over their Steam pages. Not saying that they've got a leg to stand on necessarily, just that the spat between DH and Jim has moved on since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowStar83x Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Well, I saw they're representing themselves and anyone who does that has a fool for a client. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMDE Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) Just to be clear, Jim thought he was done with DH a long time ago. Then Jim discovered he had been playing and commenting on a lot of their new games, because they had dishonestly gone under the name of another company. Of course he had talked shit about those games, because they were just as bad as all the other shit they had released before. Criticizing someone's work is not defamation. These guys release a ton of games every year and they're all shit. A normal developer would spend years to do one good game, and this is just two guys pushing out one turd after the other. They want to stop people exposing them, so they can go on and sell their turds to unsuspecting customers on Steam. Anyway, as I said, Jim thought he was done with them, but apparently he wasn't. He isn't going after them on purpose anymore. But a couple of days ago he did a video about how DH has 18!!! games, many rather similar, currently on steam greenlight, one which had already failed once. Like wtf, it's just shit. He was rightfully baffled about it and made a video on it. They don't make their own stuff either. It's just taking stuff other people have made before them, and put them together in a game and do a little bit of scripting. This is why they've made so many games in such a short amount of time, and it goes a long way towards explaining why the games are so bad too. Just so everybody knows, this whole ordeal started with Jim trying their FPS game called The Slaughtering Grounds. Absolute shit FPS game that lacked the most basic functionality and was poorly put together of various pre-made assets they may or may not have paid for (they claim to have paid for it though, even though certain things it was pretty clear they hadn't). DH made an angry reply video where they talked shit to Jim about how bad reviewer he was, didn't even notice some of the bugs in the game. Jim wasn't reviewing the game, he were just trying the game and commenting on it, sort of a first impression video. Didn't really matter to DH, they thought Jim (fucking Sterling son) was a leech on the community, where he earned money on talking trash about their hard work. They lost money and he earned. It's like they don't understand that this is how journalism has always been. People reporting about something, and the exposure from that can have effects, and there are ways to make money on reporting. The problem here is that their games are shit and they're being exposed. Edited March 18, 2016 by MMDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreakon13 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) Your point is that people shouldn't rely on the opinions of people in YouTube videos, forum posts, and user/professional review to form their opinions on a game. Okay, where in the gaming sphere should they look for the info they need to form their opinions on a game they aren't sure about buying? You can't trust the developer and word of mouth is the same as a review. People shouldn't be forced to buy a bad game to know it's a bad game. There's a difference between generating a very basic opinion for the simple purpose of deciding if a game sounds "up your alley", which is fine since it's something personal to you and doesn't interfere with others... and infecting the internet with other peoples opinions spread under the guise of your own, or pretending that because some blowhard YouTube personality has a video that agrees with you, that it's "proof" of anything. But this goes back to my thought that people who haven't actually played a game are generally too uninformed to get into debates/extended discussions about the actual content... which I've gotten into many a discussion about previously and would legitimately be off topic here. So I won't again. Edited March 18, 2016 by Dreakon13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kishnabe Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Both guys....just lol. Childish stuff..especially from the Dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remilia Scarlet Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Get ready for the Jimquisition to end all Jimquisitions ladies and gents. Don't mess with Jim Fucking Sterling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Shadow170 Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Both guys....just lol. Childish stuff..especially from the Dev. Two minutes in this is gold thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruliya Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Get ready for the Jimquisition to end all Jimquisitions ladies and gents. Don't mess with Jim Fucking Sterling! Son* and don't forget to thank God, for him! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSoOoN-MHD Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 What happens when gamers don't like something you're doing. Gamers have been trained to see the systems underneath the presentation and they will game the system to achieve their aims - in this case, by making things even worse for you. I always find it strange when people talk about ''gamers'' like one organized hive mind or army. The label needs to die already tbh but that's a discussion for another time. That doesn't give you the ability to say whatever you want. Well, you can, but it doesn't mean they aren't consequences for things like libel or slander. Now, I'm not saying this is what happened or that Digital Homicide are in the right here, but they could potentially (I have no idea what the facts are in this story) have a case. Parker You're right on that front but in this particular case it doesn't. It all falls under legal fair use and freedom of speech. Small time, independent game maker sues small-time, independent you-tube uploader. Makes national and international news. Beneficial for both parties. Well done all - excellent co-ordinated media coverage. This is kind of ridiculously. Are you really implying Jim and DH are in cahoots and this is one big ploy to make big? not like Jim already has plenty of subscribers and views and not like this has been going on for what, 1 or 2 years now? The gaming industry is different though. Consumers can easily make their opinions heard by not participating, by speaking with their wallets. By being educated and researching, or not making the same mistake twice (if they actually consider it to be a mistake and it's not just someone telling them it's a mistake). Taking this for example, everyone on Steam knows that Digital Homicide games are garbage... and if you don't, you can tell within two minutes of eyeballing the forums and user reviews. Jim Sterling wasn't needed, TotalBiscuit wouldn't be needed. I can't think of one thing in the gaming industry that Jim Sterling could possibly say that I couldn't get directly from the consumers dealing with it, or seeing it for myself. If you want to leverage his insight as a way of seeing the whys and wheres of what's new in the industry, that's fine... but there's nothing stopping you from taking that information and forming your own educated opinion from a variety of sources. Something a lot of people just aren't willing to do anymore. EDIT: And I think it's absolutely ludicrous that you'd suggest the Jim Sterling/TotalBiscuit/Angry Joe subscribers are some oppressed silent minority/majority. Welcome to the Internet, where almost every scathing opinion about a game spammed across a forum has one of their videos attached as "proof". They ARE the vocal minority/majority. Where do you think all those angry reviews are coming from, though? a bunch of those games had suspiciously high ratings before Jim and TB blew stuff up on DH and now people know that their games are terrible. You never know who might stumble on such a game and think there is something good in there. I agree with you on the idea that those guys are some kind of oppressed minority is preposterous but they and their ilk have a place in the industry. I'm not sure either way about Jim really. I know he stops his SJW/feminism stuff when people whine in the comment section when he start talking such crap or take stupid stances on certain issues. I know there are youtubers who gets funded through Patreon who do their best not to look at who's giving them money, simply for the fact that the people giving money shouldn't have any influence on them. oh no the big bad SJWS!1!!1!! seriously though its refreshing to see someone not cash in on the non sense crusade against feminism or SJWs or whatever the fuck the internet came up with lately to hate. People who are paying for his Patreon are aware of his stance most likely since he talks about it on Twitter all the time and made plenty of videos about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMDE Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 (edited) oh no the big bad SJWS!1!!1!! seriously though its refreshing to see someone not cash in on the non sense crusade against feminism or SJWs or whatever the fuck the internet came up with lately to hate. People who are paying for his Patreon are aware of his stance most likely since he talks about it on Twitter all the time and made plenty of videos about it. lol, wut? I guess you either are oblivious to what is happening, it's not a gaming thing whatsoever, or bought into the dogma yourself. It is one thing to believe in equal rights, which women got in the west, but there's a totally other to buy into cultural Marxism and oppression olympics. :\ SJWs are the people who for example of twitter gangs up on someone to take justice in their own hands, because the person hasn't been found guilty or a crime. Public shaming, ruining people's life. Often it is due to people writing something that can be interpreted in a "bad" way, so they do so, no matter what was probably intended. So you think it's cool to defend things that are harmful to society, because it's refreshing... But this wasn't a discussion about that, I'm just saying he's taking feedback on his channel. He gets a slap in the face whenever he say those things. Edited March 19, 2016 by MMDE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSoOoN-MHD Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 lol, wut? I guess you either are oblivious to what is happening, it's not a gaming thing whatsoever, or bought into the dogma yourself. It is one thing to believe in equal rights, which women got in the west, but there's a totally other to buy into cultural Marxism and oppression olympics. :\ SJWs are the people who for example of twitter gangs up on someone to take justice in their own hands, because the person hasn't been found guilty or a crime. Public shaming, ruining people's life. Often it is due to people writing something that can be interpreted in a "bad" way, so they do so, no matter what was probably intended. So you think it's cool to defend things that are harmful to society, because it's refreshing... But this wasn't a discussion about that, I'm just saying he's taking feedback on his channel. He gets a slap in the face whenever he say those things. SJWs absolutely are a gaming thing. Before gamergate's nonsense the term wasn't so run into the ground and overused, heck i'm pretty sure it wasn't even used at all ironically like it is now. The term now has spread beyond gaming but the catalyst for said term stems from the industry's community. Cultural Marxism? are we resorting to preposterous conspiracy theories about the destruction of western culture? Oppression olympics? for starters women aren't equal in the west, not completely anyways and those terms are just silly KIA rhetoric. SJW is a term that's been appropriated to shut down any meaningful discussion about legitimate issues concerning race, sex, etc in the game industry [and scary enough, life in general] because that's easier than admitting to said issues. But regardless, this is becoming bit of an off topic tangent. I'd be willing to discuss it with you in PM if you want, though. I get what you're saying but I simply disagree. Jim hasn't stopped being any less of an SJW since his Patreon was set up, if you're paying for his Patreon you know what his beliefs are and what kind of subjects he tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMDE Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I feel bad for even posting this, because it's so off-topic. I recommend response should be done through PM or something, but just for clarification, I thought I'd do a short public post. SJWs absolutely are a gaming thing. Before gamergate's nonsense the term wasn't so run into the ground and overused, heck i'm pretty sure it wasn't even used at all ironically like it is now. The term now has spread beyond gaming but the catalyst for said term stems from the industry's community. Eh? No. This goes back some years before gamergate, which was hijacked. Anyway, the expression has roots in other communities, and was well used back then. This has long been growing in social studies circles. http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/social-justice-warrior Cultural Marxism? are we resorting to preposterous conspiracy theories about the destruction of western culture? Preposterous conspiracy theories??? What has that to do with cultural Marxism? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism Oh, I see... No, we're not talking about a conspiracy theory, but rather people buying into the cultural aspects of Marxism. I also saw a link to rationalwiki when I googled, I wouldn't trust a word found at the rationalwiki site, it's pure propaganda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism ^ Would be better reading. It's basically about social constructs holding people down, oppression and the oppressor. It's much of the core ideas of what communism was built upon. You'll have to read about it to really get the ideas, like what supposed problems are addressed. You may have heard the quote that goes along the lines of religion is the opium of the masses. Well, that's Karl Marx, but he didn't intend it the way many use it. It was more about people being addicts, how harmful this was. How religion is both human suffering and the reflection of human suffering. We humans created the problem. Some few people are benefiting from everyone else's suffering and hard work etc and even those people are just as trapped in it. I'm giving this example as what I mean by social constructs and oppression. There are more elements to this too, specifically things like privilege etc. I hope you understand what is meant by this better now. Oppression olympics? for starters women aren't equal in the west, not completely anyways and those terms are just silly KIA rhetoric. You may think this, but give me one single example of it. You're the one making the positive claim here, so you got the burden of proof. KIA? As for oppression olympics. It's the fight about who's the least "privileged". The one with the least "privilege" is the one you gotta listen to, hear and believe their experience, no matter how twisted it is, to not invalidate. Things like avoid criticizing certain people, or criticize people who criticize certain people, this for things like virtue signaling and not punching down etc. etc etc etc I'm surprised you haven't seen this shit, but if you doubt what I'm saying, I'll send you shit, I see tons of it every day. Another side of this is people crying victim to get their way, or live of it (earn money, this is called professional victim). Often you will find that such people are extremely dishonest and doing their best to twist reality and smear. SJW is a term that's been appropriated to shut down any meaningful discussion about legitimate issues concerning race, sex, etc in the game industry [and scary enough, life in general] because that's easier than admitting to said issues. The term SJW can be used in many ways. One would be like I did, specify what people I talk about. This is not an attempt to shut down any discussion of meaningful or legitimate issues. ??? ?game industry? ??? Not sure what legitimate issues you got with the gaming industry... As I said, SJW term has nothing to do with the gaming industry or the corruption in gaming media (gamergate). Honestly, in my experience, the people who focus the most on the kind of issues you talk about are much of what they talk about themselves. If you ever hear any use color words to describe people, try to change it with other colors, see if you feel the same about it. Same goes for gender, sex etc. Personally, I'm not into identity politics. It's mostly about (over)generalizing groups and treating people different based on it, be offended if someone say something that can be interpreted wrong etc. I get what you're saying but I simply disagree. Jim hasn't stopped being any less of an SJW since his Patreon was set up, if you're paying for his Patreon you know what his beliefs are and what kind of subjects he tackles. I agree he hasn't, but he isn't talking about it on his youtube channel. I was specifically talking about him taking aboard feedback he gets in the comment section of his videos. But unlike Jim, I can look past a difference of opinion when it comes to works I enjoy. He doesn't mix it (much) anymore. Why I say Jim doesn't do this is because he's said it himself, and example would be Earthworm Jim. I subscribe and watch and read lots of stuff that I don't agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocVoltacon Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 This is disgunsting gaming companies love to abuse their power what their thinking GOD ??? I dont have nothing to say anymore just there so much Bullshiet latery about Copyright and Fair Use. We are going down to hell prety fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KratosTheMighty Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 More like Digital Suicide...... Meh, I don't care for the typical youtube personality, nor do I care for dickhead companies who shit out terrible products and play the victim. Drama sells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunking1212 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 If Jim somehow loses this case his channel is fucked. I doubt he will lose though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrickenBiged Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I always find it strange when people talk about ''gamers'' like one organized hive mind or army. The label needs to die already tbh but that's a discussion for another time. I wasn't talking about "gamers" in that sense in my post. I can't see where in my post you got the idea that all gamers were doing this, or that all approved. I was merely commenting that, if you're going to do something that could upset gamers, like raising money to sue a reasonably popular gaming commentator, you'd better make sure that there's no way they could exploit the means by which you're doing it to make things worse for you, e.g. by exploiting PayPal's systems to cost you more money than you're able to derive from the endeavour, because they're generally quite good at seeing through systems and mechanics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMDE Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) That doesn't give you the ability to say whatever you want. Well, you can, but it doesn't mean they aren't consequences for things like libel or slander. Now, I'm not saying this is what happened or that Digital Homicide are in the right here, but they could potentially (I have no idea what the facts are in this story) have a case. Parker There are usually defamation laws, but it's mostly about telling intentional lies about someone to smear them. There are also privacy laws. If what you report is true and you've not been under any kind of contract to not reveal the information or there are laws against it etc, then you're pretty much free to say what you want without any legal consequences. These days you also got the "PC police"/SJWs, that instead of going through legal routes, because they can't, will shame you in public with a huge amount of support. You will likely be branded for a good portion of your life, people will not want to be associated with you, and it may completely ruin your future. There's a good reason for why public shaming has been done away with in more developed countries, and it's about how effective and long-term the damages to you are. I mention this stuff, because you talk about consequences. If you want to be more rational about it, you may want to shame ideas, not people. If someone associates with the idea that is being criticized, that's their choice and there's no reason to feel offended by it. Imagine in the case of Justine Sacco (google her name if you don't know what it's about), that it was reported without the person's name... Seriously, think about it for a little while. You asked what Gawker was in another post, it was a Gawker reporter who did the initial retweeting in this case, and even knowing the intentions of Justine Sacco, they'd have done it again. In case you don't know what the intentions of the tweet was, it was a joke about how terrible it is that percentage of people with AIDS is so unproportional between the "west" and Africa, like a little thought provoker. It was of course (deliberately) interpreted by a lot of people in another way. Is there going to be any consequence to all the people who ruined Justine Sacco's life? They hide in numbers, and many are well aware of what they're doing. I mention this because you talked about consequences to what you say. Edited March 21, 2016 by MMDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undead Wolf Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Well it looks like Digital Homicide have decided to drop the case. Did they have a change of heart? Did they notice how ridiculous what they were trying to do was? Nah, they just ran out of money. Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-10-03-developer-suing-steam-reviewers-drops-case-following-financial-difficulties Last week the developer filed a motion to get the case dismissed without prejudice, meaning that Digital Homicide would recoup its court fees. Barring that, it would like to have a 90-day extension to come up with more money so it can go through with its initial plan. Digital Homicide's James Romine offered Techraptor the following statement regarding his perspective on the matter, in which he claims that the negative reviews were full of false information, effectively making them slanderous and financially damaging to the company. "The case dismissal was only due to financial reasons caused by the removal of our games. I believe the case was very solid. There were in excess of 140 false statements by the 11 Steam users, tens of thousands of posts harassing myself and my customers, three direct interference with written contracts with third parties by Steam users (some of which were competitors), and much more. A combined in excess of 25 reports were filed against the worst users of the 11 with no resolutions being found." Romine further lashed out at Valve, wherein he likened its poor moderation to that of a mall charging rent for a store, then offering no security. "Insufficient harassment control mechanism's is definitely the other problem. A review should be enough of a open area to discuss displeasure of actual customers. When I ban someone who isn't even a customer that's been harassing me for 18+ months after reporting them 3-12 times, for a false statement or harassing me or a customer - I don't expect to have to listen to them insult me for two-to-three days afterwards in a direct communication line. If I do - it's a problem with moderation controls," Romine railed. "Why is 30 per cent of my sales a proper cut without supplying security that would be expected in any business environment. It's like a mall charging you rent for a shop and mall security staying at the donut shop all day while you get mobbed and looted. Then I get competitors leaving bad reviews on my launches, putting false statements in my reviews and running the game on unsupported platforms to make it look broken, and when I complain I am ignored. This would be like the next shop over in the mall coming next door and posting signs on my business with false information on them. How is that logically allowable?" According to the motion Digital Homicide filed, the company first spoke to a sheriff about its situation, citing Arizona State Law 13-2921 which defines harassment as "Conduct that is directed at a specific person and that would cause a reasonable person to be seriously alarmed, annoyed or harassed and the conduct in fact seriously alarms, annoys or harasses the person." Digital Homicide claimed that the sheriff was unable to assist in the matter, but advised the developer sue instead. I think this sums up the whole thing pretty well... Off topic, but going back through this thread, I noticed just how many people have been banned from the site this year. I didn't realise there were so many. Edited October 3, 2016 by Undead Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonFalzar Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 wtf is a digital homicide are they trying to kill someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike13858 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) wtf is a digital homicide are they trying to kill someone? Digital Homicide is a game company that makes terrible video games and they got mad that Jim Sterling was talking shit about their games on his YouTube channel so they thought it would be a good idea to sue him. Edited October 4, 2016 by Mike13858 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undead Wolf Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 wtf is a digital homicide are they trying to kill someone? I think all they've managed to do is kill is their own reputation (not that they had much of one in the first place). Considering Steam have taken all of their games down, I hope they just fade into the background, and we never have to hear from these guys again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satoshi Ookami Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 are they trying to kill someone? With their games? I wouldn't be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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