Earning Trophies on 3rd Party, Independently Revived PSN Game Servers

[ProfBambam55]

9 minutes ago, NeM2k2 said:

Yeah, the requests have already started! I'd love to add support for many games, but I don't own many ex-Gamespy games and I live in a country where it's not always easy to locate multiple copies of the same game for testing. Maybe I should set up a patreon or something so people can donate so I can buy the copies of the games required to test them. Or they can send me copies or something

 

Hah! You think I was good?

digital downloads would also work if available in-store, yes?...meaning someone could use them and share with an alt account?...also, just to make sure I'm understanding the concept here, others could also host servers as long as the games have peer-to-peer matchmaking, is that correct?...would we all be using the same DNS to access the same servers if there were multiple "hosts"?...

 

i'll let this idea simmer for a bit, give people a chance to sort out its limits and whatnot but if all checks out, I'd be ok with putting my money where my mouth is and provide funding and/or supply copies of games if it would benefit the community...

[MMDE]

5 minutes ago, Afro_Gear said:

 

I'm no attorney or technician for that matter but I don't believe this is modifying the server. It's creating a new one and connecting to it. No, @NeM2k2? 

 

He's modifying the client-server communication, and while he's not modifying the server, because that's dead and he's not reviving it or anything like that, he's creating a server that's emulating it with it's own modifications, and he is indeed modifying parts of the game title and content when he's making it available when it's no longer available. So yeah, it IS breaking the PSN ToS. Doubt you'd win a court case about this, the question is more about if Sony is allowed to require this of the costumers...

Edited March 15, 2018 by MMDE

[Potent_Delusions]

I honestly find it absolutely hilarious when people bring up the T&Cs in here, utterly laughable. I guess anyone in here who has boosted a trophy should be banned because that's against the in-game T&Cs for virtually every single game on PSN. It's "picking and choosing" at it's finest. 

Trophy boosting (T&Cs breach): fine
This: not.

 

?

 

[NeM2k2]

8 minutes ago, Afro_Gear said:

 

I'm no attorney or technician for that matter but I don't believe this is modifying the server. It's creating a new one and connecting to it. No, @NeM2k2? 

 

I'm no lawyer, but I think that section covers client-server communication between PSN and the game client. Gamespy itself was a third party service - Gonespy is also a third party service. Not sure how that all fits in together.

 

Suffice to say, if I was sent a cease-and-desist, I would oblige. If my main PSN account was banned because of this, I would just abandon Playstation entirely and only play on Steam/Xbox. Sony's loss, not mine.

Edited March 15, 2018 by NeM2k2

[Afro_Gear]

1 minute ago, MMDE said:

So yeah, it IS breaking the PSN ToS.

 

Forgive me if this is obvious, but why would this site care if someone breaks the PSN ToS if they don't break a flaggable offense to obtain trophies? I didn't see anything about it in "what constitutes a flag".

[ProfBambam55]

12 minutes ago, NeM2k2 said:

 

I haven't looked at the Gamespy code or even tried with other games since I got Bulletstorm working. Bulletstorm was a perfect test case because the private matches are peer-to-peer, your XP/rank isn't stored on the server, and most of the trophies aren't based on stats from the server. I'm not 100% sure what is possible or impossible. I suspect anything involving dedicated servers might be extremely difficult or impossible.

 

The 200 challenges might be tracked server-side - I don't know yet. When you look at the Statistics section in-game, it doesn't load the statistics that are tracked server-side (challenges being one of them). So I don't know if your progress towards 200 challenges is based on a hidden counter in your game date, or if it's based on the server-side statistic. If it's based on server-side, then it does mean maybe you could mod the server to autopop that trophy (something I don't condone or encourage). Hopefully someone can try doing the 200 tracking it themselves and see if it pops.

this is interesting...r* also had gta iv run by gamespy...when the servers were shut down and transferred to new ones leaderboards, stats, etc were all gone but data was then patched to save on a profile data file making all trophies attainable including ones that potentially take multiple sessions...

 

if the game already saves online data on a save, like rdr does, I wonder if things like the 200 challenges would also be saved...easy way to verify is to check the last save time on the file...does this exist for Bulletstorm and if so, did the date/time of that file update after you played it with Gonespy?... 

Edited March 15, 2018 by ProfBambam55

[dmland12]

Just now, NeM2k2 said:

 

I'm no lawyer, but I think that section covers client-server communication between PSN and the game client. Gamespy itself was a third party service - Gonespy is also a third party service. Not sure how that all fits in together.

 

Suffice to say, if I was sent a cease-and-desist, I would oblige. If my main PSN account was banned because of this, I would just abandon Playstation entirely and only play on Steam/Xbox.

 

Come on!  To connect to the server you're changing the DNS so that it points to a different place than the game requests.  If that's not modifying client-server communication, then what is?

[Potent_Delusions]

9 minutes ago, DPatriot said:

Any chance for Motorstorm pacific rift? getting that 100% would be a dream!

 

Sorry if silly question

 

 

 

He has the Gamespy standard development kit, not the Sony one. 

 

This allows him to more easily revive Gamespy games i.e Bulletstorm, FEAR 2, Section 8 etc. It doesn't affect other games as far as I understand it as he doesn't have their standard development kits. (please correct me if i'm wrong Nem2k2). 

[Afro_Gear]

1 minute ago, dmland12 said:

 

Come on!  To connect to the server you're changing the DNS so that it points to a different place than the game requests.  If that's not modifying client-server communication, then what is?

 

But who cares? Are you a money hungry Sony attorney itching for a law suit? LIke it was said before, Boosting is a breach of the ToS for many many games. And again, who cares?

[NeM2k2]

1 minute ago, Potent_Delusions said:

 

He has the Gamespy standard development kit, not the Sony one. 

 

This allows him to more easily revive Gamespy games i.e Bulletstorm, FEAR 2, Section 8 etc. It doesn't affect other games as far as I understand it as he doesn't have their standard development kits. (please correct me if i'm wrong Nem2k2). 

 

This is correct. Only Gamespy-based games will work with this approach.

[MMDE]

16 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

also, just to make sure I'm understanding the concept here, others could also host servers as long as the games have peer-to-peer matchmaking, is that correct?...would we all be using the same DNS to access the same servers if there were multiple "hosts"?...

 

I think the DNS server talk is confusing people. Whenever you want to access a web site or whatever, and you write a domain name, like "psnprofiles.com", you'll need to know where this server is located. You learn this by asking the DNS server, which will tell you it's at "158.69.117.124". Now you can access "158.69.117.124", which is "psnprofiles.com".

 

I don't know what the original gamespy server domain was, and the exact way it decides that you're playing "Bulletstorm", but let's just say it was "gamespy.com". If you contact your normal DNS server (likely one your ISP provide), it will tell you "gamespy.com"'s address is "52.6.69.1". If we set up our own DNS server, we can tell anyone trying to find out where "gamespy.com" is that it's somewhere else, like your local computer running the server software.

 

Of course everyone playing on the same server need to have a DNS server that gives the same address, the address of the new server. This server must of course have the required ports forwarded towards the server, so when people contact the address at the correct ports, they actually get through to the server and isn't dropped by the router not knowing where to send the data.

Edited March 15, 2018 by MMDE

[Vergil]

7 minutes ago, Potent_Delusions said:

 

He has the Gamespy standard development kit, not the Sony one. 

 

This allows him to more easily revive Gamespy games i.e Bulletstorm, FEAR 2, Section 8 etc. It doesn't affect other games as far as I understand it as he doesn't have their standard development kits. (please correct me if i'm wrong Nem2k2). 

Ohh well, it will stay a dream then lol.  Thx for clarifing that! 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by DPatriot

[dmland12]

Just now, Afro_Gear said:

 

But who cares? Are you a money hungry Sony attorney itching for a law suit? LIke it was said before, Boosting is a breach of the ToS for many many games. And again, who cares?

 

No, I just don't like to see people arguing nonsense.

 

Some games care about boosting (and will restrict or ban as well as design around it with matchmaking) and some don't.  It's up to them to police that how they like.

[Abysm_Nucleus]

3 minutes ago, NeM2k2 said:

 

This is correct. Only Gamespy-based games will work with this approach.

How about Lord of the Rings: Conquest? Trophy description says 'Ranked Match' is there any chance to revive the servers to get the trophies? Trophies are fairly easy and there is no need for grind at all. I think you should take a look at that game. Many people I know want to get this plat.

[ProfBambam55]

7 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

I think the DNS server talk is confusing people. Whenever you want to access a web site or whatever, and you write a domain name, like "psnprofiles.com", you'll need to know where this server is located. You learn this by asking the DNS server, which will tell you it's at "158.69.117.124". Now you can access "158.69.117.124", which is "psnprofiles.com".

 

I don't know what the original gamespy server domain was, and the exact way it decides that you're playing "Bulletstorm", but let's just say it was "gamespy.com". If you contact your normal DNS server (likely one your ISP provide), it will tell you "gamespy.com"'s address is "52.6.69.1". If we set up our own DNS server, we can tell anyone trying to find out where "gamespy.com" is that it's somewhere else, like your local computer running the server software.

so...that's a yes?...my follow up was if it was possible to set up more than one game the common denominator would be to access Gonespy through the DNS, yes?...it would be the same regardless of host since host would basically just be running Gonespy?...meaning it might actually already work for other gamespy games that were shut down that have peer-to-peer matchmaking, yes?... 

Edited March 15, 2018 by ProfBambam55

[MMDE]

13 minutes ago, Potent_Delusions said:

I honestly find it absolutely hilarious when people bring up the T&Cs in here, utterly laughable. I guess anyone in here who has boosted a trophy should be banned because that's against the in-game T&Cs for virtually every single game on PSN. It's "picking and choosing" at it's finest. 

Trophy boosting (T&Cs breach): fine
This: not.

 

?

 

 

Well, it's a bit more serious offense, and as I said, it depends a bit on what is actually allowed for the T&C / ToS  to require of the users. If the site is going to promote/approve of it, might not want to get in any legal trouble over it. We've seen this stuff happen before.

[Afro_Gear]

1 minute ago, dmland12 said:

It's up to them to police that how they like.

 

And I would say the same goes for Sony. People going off about it possibly breaching the ToS: "Cool story bro." 

[Potent_Delusions]

2 minutes ago, DPatriot said:

Ohh well, it will stay a dream then lol.  Thx for clarifing that! 

 

 

 

Maybe for a while, but maybe not forever. If the standard dev kit has been found for Gamespy...then maybe it will be found for Sony's games (although I can imagine it'd be a lot harder). My dream of FEAR 2 is luckily now considerably more of a reality, but it would be awesome for it to be possible for all games in the future.

[MMDE]

7 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

so...that's a yes?...my follow up was if it was possible to set up more than one game the common denominator would be to access Gonespy through the DNS, yes?...it would be the same regardless of host since host would basically just be running Gonespy?...meaning it might actually already work for other gamespy games that were shut down, yes?... 

 

11 minutes ago, MMDE said:

Of course everyone playing on the same server need to have a DNS server that gives the same address, the address of the new server. This server must of course have the required ports forwarded towards the server, so when people contact the address at the correct ports, they actually get through to the server and isn't dropped by the router not knowing where to send the data.

 

And yes, he provided software that was already built I think, and you could build yourself, to run the server software on your own computer. (build, as in turn code into executable file that you can run on your computer, make the code a program). This will work excellent locally I believe, as long as when the PS3 tries to look up the server address (use the DNS server) that it actually gets the address to the computer running the software back. And as I said, for others to connect, they need to do get the same server address when looking up the address to the server, and they be on the same (virtual) private network or forward the correct ports in the router towards the computer running the server software.

 

Yes, they can all use the same DNS server if it's set up to give them the new server address instead of the old.

Edited March 15, 2018 by MMDE

[NeM2k2]

Just now, MMDE said:

for others to connect, they need to be on the same (virtual) private network or forward the correct ports in the router towards the computer running the server software.

 

This would only be required for matchmaking, which isn't even supported yet. For private matches in Bulletstorm each person can run their own version of the server, and send/accept game invites via the PS3 invite mechanism

[ProfBambam55]

4 minutes ago, NeM2k2 said:

 

This would only be required for matchmaking, which isn't even supported yet. For private matches in Bulletstorm each person can run their own version of the server, and send/accept game invites via the PS3 invite mechanism

Hmmm...does this mean everyone needs to run the server to be able to join private matches?...if I run it on my pc  can someone who owns the game join my server simply by modifying their DNS settings in their console?...as in, if my pc is online and running Gonespy, the server is up for all to use?....

Edited March 15, 2018 by ProfBambam55

[dmland12]

Just now, Afro_Gear said:

 

And I would say the same goes for Sony. People going off about it possibly breaching the ToS: "Cool story bro." 

 

You're correct, as far as terms of service go, it's ultimately up to Sony to police.  But, I don't like seeing people argue that actually you're not breaking x, when clearly it is.  People should choose what they're going to do based on correct information.

[NeM2k2]

2 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

Hmmm...does this mean everyone needs to run the server to be able to join private matches?...if I run it on my pc  can someone who owns the game join my server simply by modifying their DNS settings in their console?...as in, if my pc is online and running Gonespy, the server is up for all to use?....

You don't have to run your own - one person could run the server and everyone connects to it if you want. Just be prepared to deal with networking issues, port forwarding, firewalls...

[ProfBambam55]

Just now, NeM2k2 said:

You don't have to run your own - one person could run the server and everyone connects to it if you want. Just be prepared to deal with networking issues, port forwarding, firewalls...

Ok, thanks for clarifying...it is what I thought it is then...very interesting...so again, Gonespy being a sort of gamespy clone means it might actually already work for other games...crazy...

[DaivRules]

39 minutes ago, A12 said:

I'm not reading through this whole mess, so if it's been posted already idgaf.

Section 3: COMMUNITY CODE OF CONDUCT

• You may not use, make, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware, including Non-Licensed Peripherals and cheat code software or devices that circumvent any security features or limitations included on any software or devices, in conjunction with PSN Services, or take or use any data from PSN Services to design, develop or update unauthorized software or hardware.
• You may not modify or attempt to modify the online client, disc, save file, server, client-server communication, or other parts of any game title, or content.

E.G. No you aren't supposed to connect to some random persons privately written software thru a PlayStation or PSN.

 

You all read it here people. A12 just said Boosting is against the TOS and must be ceased and desisted immediately. 

 

Also: By not G’ing A F, you missed the post where the site owner said he didn’t have a problem with it unless it affects obtaining trophies without meeting requirements.

 

But thanks. I’ll wait for a Sony representative to contact me personally about that.