RPG Mania 2021 - Congrats AlterArchuria! (Completed)

[AlterArchuria]

13 hours ago, Warpedsavior said:

I guess any version of Disgaea 4, others who played other Disgaea games can chime in if the others are worth putting on the list, though possibly Disgaea 4 would be the only one from Disgaea? Maybe swap out Re: Hollow Fragment on the Most Wanted List with it's Vita counterpart? As @fisty123 said, a lot of time can be saved by using a save from a previous Vita save.

Ok, my personal opinion is that Sorcery Saga shouldn't be on the Most Wanted List at all. It's rather easy for a mystery dungeon game. Shiren the Wanderer: The Tower of Fortune and the Dice of Fate should be there instead. Instead of games being infamous among RPG trophy hunters, maybe it would be better to have more clear conditions? Like for example, games on the Most Wanted List should have a minimum time to platinum and/or a minimum platinum difficulty? I feel like it would help decide which games to put on it. Or maybe instead of having a Most Wanted List, just have a time multiplier incorporated into the score?

 

Almost all disgaea aren't actually hard as its more so a grind and a rng fest and most have become easier in time not to mention numerous videos out there that kinda show easier ways to finish them so they really shouldn't be put on the list since there kind of the middle of pack in terms of difficulty/time to plat. I also agree that it should be more so towards platinum difficulty since while RNG is annoying it doesn't mean its hard, for example Oreshika has a high plat time, RNG but is easy because its a game you will slowly improve over time and that not counting the QR thing which then makes it a cake walk but when compared to something that both hard and RNG heavy like Guided Fate as its kinda a big gap between the two since a single decision can put you back a whole day work if not more.

 

While I'm not against people combining The Most Wanted with there double/triple picks there shouldn't be a big list of them and should only be the hardest RPGs so there some balance. Though I will say we should keep the Most Wanted List around at the very least since while having a time multiplier is good and all there shouldn't also be a incentive to rush a RPG plus anyone willing to do those games during a competition deserves to be rewarded fairly.

[Laburnski]

I will join again for this year

 

2x points bonus games : Brigandine: The Legend of Runersia and The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel IV

 

3x points bonus games : Yakuza: Like A Dragon

 

I recommend "The Guided Fate Paradox" for Most Wanted list just because its platinum ?

 

Edit: i change my bonus games because its already on Most Wanted List

Edited February 1, 2021 by Laburnski

[Ampplaca]

im interested in joining. not sure on my x2 or x3 games yet but will pick by feb 1st

[Arctic Cress]

I'd like to join.

 

2x games: Utawarerumono: Mask of Truth and Yakuza: Like a Dragon

3x game: Ys IX: Monstrum Nox

[acasser]

I'm increasingly pessimsitic that I'm going to squeeze in that last game for RPG 2020, that it's going to bleed over into this competition.  So, for my own clarification, would the scoring for that game for this competition look like:

 

100 (Base) + "trophies earned only following the start of this competition" (less than the whole amount, obviously) - platinum rarity - completion negation (15 or 20 points most likely; I'll probably be north of 60% by next Sunday)

 

Which seems to me to be a little high when I'll have had most of the game completed, but I want to ensure I understand how this will work.  My thanks in advnace.

[Lord_Bane999]

On 26/01/2021 at 9:47 AM, acasser said:

I'm increasingly pessimsitic that I'm going to squeeze in that last game for RPG 2020, that it's going to bleed over into this competition.  So, for my own clarification, would the scoring for that game for this competition look like:

 

100 (Base) + "trophies earned only following the start of this competition" (less than the whole amount, obviously) - platinum rarity - completion negation (15 or 20 points most likely; I'll probably be north of 60% by next Sunday)

 

Which seems to me to be a little high when I'll have had most of the game completed, but I want to ensure I understand how this will work.  My thanks in advnace.

Touhou I'm guessing the game your mentioning so it should look like this as it sits now I believe. If @Psy-Tychist can confirm.

 

100 + 47 - 5.03 - 15 = (126.97 + 50) × 5 = 884.85

 

100 base + 47 total obtainable trophy point minus complete rate (site completion rate) minus points for percentage already completed. Then bonus first bonus is 50 points for speed run since you should be one of the first 25 to complete. Second bonus is the 5x multiplier for most wanted (I'm assuming this game would have it as I believe reloaded is just a complete version of touhou wanderer isn't it?)

 

When looking at it I get why it might seem high but I believe it  would be a hard thing to fix and make something good for everyone. Because trophies can vary from one game to another. Basically if one game like Touhou Reloaded for example has more Bronze trophies that are only worth one point each taking more points off then what their worth could hurt the score in a way someone wouldn't even bother with it if they already have X percent completed. (I think we should be encouraged to complete any of our backlog) Then one would assume maybe base it on number of trophies or do point per percentage but then this would negetively effect rpg trophy lists with a smaller amount of trophies and thus don't have a higher point total to contribute. Notably some great RPGs that might have 20 or less trophies could get scrubed if a partial completion was there already.

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Lord_Bane999

[Psy-Tychist]

On 26/01/2021 at 2:47 PM, acasser said:

I'm increasingly pessimistic that I'm going to squeeze in that last game for RPG 2020, that it's going to bleed over into this competition.  So, for my own clarification, would the scoring for that game for this competition look like:

 

100 (Base) + "trophies earned only following the start of this competition" (less than the whole amount, obviously) - platinum rarity - completion negation (15 or 20 points most likely; I'll probably be north of 60% by next Sunday)

 

Which seems to me to be a little high when I'll have had most of the game completed, but I want to ensure I understand how this will work.  My thanks in advance.

 

That looks about right and any other modifiers will be added afterwards. There will be an amendment to the penalty point system, just a small change that I will highlight in the OP.

 

The 2020 edition will have a finished table hopefully within the first week, all games that count will have rarities taken when I count them if they haven't been posted beforehand.

 

I have been trying to find a good way to implement a time based reward system, but haven't got one which seems fair yet. I'm still sticking with the Most Wanted List and will have 10 games on there which are truly infamous or vey long. I will add to it tomorrow and see if it meets approval.

 

Everyone who has put forward interest has been added to the OP and the spreadsheet should be coming tomorrow with all the Double and Triple pointed games. Because the Most Wanted list hasn't been finalised yet, a note that if a game you want as your Double or Triple game is on the final list, it would need to be swapped for an alternative.

 

Hopefully this year I can put up more games than I did through all of last year...

[Eternal_Rach]

I’d like to sign up please if still possible? I think I’m cutting it a little close.

 

Double Point Games:

Atelier Totori: The Adventurer of Arland DX

Atelier Meruru: The Apprentice of Arland DX

 

Triple Point Game:

Atelier Lulua: The Scion of Arland

 

I have a couple questions about the series stacker bonus. Is there a limit on how many entries of the series receive the bonus like past years? And, if not, does the bonus keep doubling per entry or will it be capped at a certain number? Just thinking there could be some huge numbers coming from that if anyone is game enough to play a lengthy series all year. 

 

Also, is there any chance of reworking the “no stacks, remasters or other editions” rule? They shouldn’t count towards the series stacker bonus but so long as they aren’t auto-popped what is the reasoning for them to not be allowed? Only asking because I have a few enhanced editions of games but have yet to play the originals and don’t really want to have to pick one edition over the other. 

[Lord_Bane999]

1 hour ago, Eternal_Rach said:

I’d like to sign up please if still possible? I think I’m cutting it a little close.

 

Double Point Games:

Atelier Totori: The Adventurer of Arland DX

Atelier Meruru: The Apprentice of Arland DX

 

Triple Point Game:

Atelier Lulua: The Scion of Arland

 

I have a couple questions about the series stacker bonus. Is there a limit on how many entries of the series receive the bonus like past years? And, if not, does the bonus keep doubling per entry or will it be capped at a certain number? Just thinking there could be some huge numbers coming from that if anyone is game enough to play a lengthy series all year. 

 

Also, is there any chance of reworking the “no stacks, remasters or other editions” rule? They shouldn’t count towards the series stacker bonus but so long as they aren’t auto-popped what is the reasoning for them to not be allowed? Only asking because I have a few enhanced editions of games but have yet to play the originals and don’t really want to have to pick one edition over the other. 

The rule for no stacking of remasters, remakes with originals or other version is a kinda common rule I see myself in trophy or achievement competitions but it does have a solid reasoning. It's more or less used to encourage the play of different games. Basically it stops people from using a game that has received multiple ports or versions that could just be spammed easy for points.

 

For example the Arland Trilogy you have selected have 5 different trophy lists for each game and wether they are the DX or orignal, Japanese or English they are all in the end the same game. So why count them separately? And this isn't getting into things like Ratalaika Games For exmaple Devious Dungeon 1 and 2 both are considered RPGs but yet each game have 6 separate trophy lists for the same game. And can be easily all be knocked out during a couple weeks with adequate time.

[Eternal_Rach]

1 hour ago, Lord_Bane999 said:

The rule for no stacking of remasters, remakes with originals or other version is a kinda common rule I see myself in trophy or achievement competitions but it does have a solid reasoning. It's more or less used to encourage the play of different games. Basically it stops people from using a game that has received multiple ports or versions that could just be spammed easy for points.

 

For example the Arland Trilogy you have selected have 5 different trophy lists for each game and wether they are the DX or orignal, Japanese or English they are all in the end the same game. So why count them separately? And this isn't getting into things like Ratalaika Games For exmaple Devious Dungeon 1 and 2 both are considered RPGs but yet each game have 6 separate trophy lists for the same game. And can be easily all be knocked out during a couple weeks with adequate time.

 

Valid points. It could easily be abused with shorter games if someone wanted to although I also believe that if people are after cheap points they’ll find a way whether that’s buying 6 versions of the same game or 6 of the shortest different games they can find.

 

I just think it’s a shame that if someone where to play the original version of a game and then want to play an enhanced version with extra content that would most likely take even longer to complete they won’t get any credit for it. If the rule remains the same that’s fine though. 

[Psy-Tychist]

3 hours ago, Eternal_Rach said:

I have a couple questions about the series stacker bonus. Is there a limit on how many entries of the series receive the bonus like past years? And, if not, does the bonus keep doubling per entry or will it be capped at a certain number? Just thinking there could be some huge numbers coming from that if anyone is game enough to play a lengthy series all year. 

 

Also, is there any chance of reworking the “no stacks, remasters or other editions” rule? They shouldn’t count towards the series stacker bonus but so long as they aren’t auto-popped what is the reasoning for them to not be allowed? Only asking because I have a few enhanced editions of games but have yet to play the originals and don’t really want to have to pick one edition over the other. 

 

The series stacker can go on as long as there an original title of the same named series and is an RPG. Most entries I have seen end in roughly 6 games, so the max bonus is 400 points, which seems like a lot, but also allows people to experience the series they haven't yet started. 

 

In regards to the the stacking rule, it is as @Lord_Bane999 has pointed out that there are several stacks of the same game, remastered or updated or adding slightly more content or different regional versions. If these were counted individually, there would be no need to try different games to get points as you could play the same game 6 times (potentially) and get more points for minimal effort. It's mostly to promote trying new games and series.

 

There are concessions, but they are done on a game by game basis and have to show at least differences in trophy lists to warrant being different.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Psy-Tychist

[AlterArchuria]

5 hours ago, Psy-Tychist said:

 

The series stacker can go on as long as there an original title of the same named series and is an RPG. Most entries I have seen end in roughly 6 games, so the max bonus is 400 points, which seems like a lot, but also allows people to experience the series they haven't yet started.

 

@Psy-Tychist What about something like Yakuza then, what the ruling on that one since while most are listed as a RPG some aren't for whatever reason and its one series that will go past 6 games if u included the likes of Judgement.

[Psy-Tychist]

@AlterArchuria If they aren't RPG's then they don't count, that's the basis of the rule. They have to have the game name in the title to be part of the series.

 

Dissidia and Chocobo's Mystery Dungeon are based in the Final Fantasy franchise, but aren't named Final Fantasy so they wouldn't count as part of the series, as an example.

[AlterArchuria]

48 minutes ago, Psy-Tychist said:

@AlterArchuria If they aren't RPG's then they don't count, that's the basis of the rule. They have to have the game name in the title to be part of the series.

 

Dissidia and Chocobo's Mystery Dungeon are based in the Final Fantasy franchise, but aren't named Final Fantasy so they wouldn't count as part of the series, as an example.

 

Okay but then would the other Yakuza games (4-6) which aren't listed as RPG still count then or is that a no as well? Since its odd for part of a franchise to might count and some might not.

 

Make sense, but I would assume World of FF would also fall into that or would it be counted like how Nelke would be for the atelier franchise being a crossover type.

[Mesopithecus]

48 minutes ago, Psy-Tychist said:

 

Dissidia and Chocobo's Mystery Dungeon are based in the Final Fantasy franchise, but aren't named Final Fantasy so they wouldn't count as part of the series, as an example.

 

I disagree with this tbh, especially as Dissidia is known as "Dissidia Final Fantasy" and not to mention that both games are under the series bracket for Final Fantasy both here and TrueTrophies.

 

Also, in terms of the Most Wanted list I have problems with Elite Dangerous being on there as it isn't an RPG and doesn't really have RPG elements - I have no clue why PSNP lists it as an RPG especially as no other site does.  My husband has a couple of thousand hours of this on PC so I have some knowledge and experience of the game - Playstation Store lists it as action, shooter, simulation (which is 100% what it is)

 

 

[Laburnski]

I just realized that the games i've choosen are included in Most Wanted List so i have to change it. But before that i see Brigandine: The Legend of Runersia that i believe a SRPG hasn't been decided on what genre that game is. Will this count too ?

 

Also what about Super Robot Wars series? We have SRW X, V and T tagged as RPG yet Super Robot Wars OG The Moon Dwellers has none ? Same also happened with SD Gundam: G Generation Genesis and SD Gundam: G Generation Cross Rays

[Psy-Tychist]

38 minutes ago, AlterArchuria said:

Okay but then would the other Yakuza games (4-6) which aren't listed as RPG still count then or is that a no as well? Since its odd for part of a franchise to might count and some might not.

 

Make sense, but I would assume World of FF would also fall into that or would it be counted like how Nelke would be for the atelier franchise being a crossover type.

 

I haven't looked at all the games that would or wouldn't count. Does Yakuza 4-6 not have any genres or just not saying they are RPG's?

 

I believe it would fall into the same category of the series of FF same as Nelke for the Atelier series.

 

40 minutes ago, Mesopithecus said:

I disagree with this tbh, especially as Dissidia is known as "Dissidia Final Fantasy" and not to mention that both games are under the series bracket for Final Fantasy both here and TrueTrophies.

 

Also, in terms of the Most Wanted list I have problems with Elite Dangerous being on there as it isn't an RPG and doesn't really have RPG elements - I have no clue why PSNP lists it as an RPG especially as no other site does.  My husband has a couple of thousand hours of this on PC so I have some knowledge and experience of the game - Playstation Store lists it as action, shooter, simulation (which is 100% what it is)

 

It's true it does count on here, I haven't looked at all the games and I will make mistakes on what is correct or what needs clarification.

 

I have only put Elite on there because someone mentioned it and was waiting for more clarification as to whether it would be more RPG than Shooter etc.

I will post a newer list later and that will hopefully be the last one if the majority agrees.

 

26 minutes ago, Laburnski said:

I just realized that the games i've chosen are included in Most Wanted List so i have to change it. But before that i see Brigandine: The Legend of Runersia that i believe a SRPG hasn't been decided on what genre that game is. Will this count too ?

 

Also what about Super Robot Wars series? We have SRW X, V and T tagged as RPG yet Super Robot Wars OG The Moon Dwellers has none Same also happened with SD Gundam: G Generation Genesis and SD Gundam: G Generation Cross Rays

 

Brigandine: The Legend of Runersia would count based on the several websites I've had a look at.

WIth these series, I will check them as they are posted if you want to play them and decide on them. There will be no penalty for putting games in the thread for clarification and from those that also know more about them.

[AlterArchuria]

2 minutes ago, Psy-Tychist said:

 

I haven't looked at all the games that would or wouldn't count. Does Yakuza 4-6 not have any genres or just not saying they are RPG's?

 

I believe it would fall into the same category of the series of FF same as Nelke for the Atelier series.

 

Yakuza 4-6 have a genre but there the ones which aren't listed as RPGs out of all the Yakuza game for some reason.

[Warpedsavior]

18 hours ago, Psy-Tychist said:

I have been trying to find a good way to implement a time based reward system, but haven't got one which seems fair yet. I'm still sticking with the Most Wanted List and will have 10 games on there which are truly infamous or vey long. I will add to it tomorrow and see if it meets approval.

 

Everyone who has put forward interest has been added to the OP and the spreadsheet should be coming tomorrow with all the Double and Triple pointed games. Because the Most Wanted list hasn't been finalised yet, a note that if a game you want as your Double or Triple game is on the final list, it would need to be swapped for an alternative.

What time based multiplier have you been considering? And I’ll change my doubles and triples as soon as the final list is finalized of course.

 

2 hours ago, Psy-Tychist said:

@AlterArchuria If they aren't RPG's then they don't count, that's the basis of the rule. They have to have the game name in the title to be part of the series.

 

Dissidia and Chocobo's Mystery Dungeon are based in the Final Fantasy franchise, but aren't named Final Fantasy so they wouldn't count as part of the series, as an example.

Of course every RPG isn’t listed as one and some games that aren’t RPGs are listed as one, as for the Yakuza games, a Yakuza expert can give the answer better, I’m obviously not, but if most of the Yakuza games are RPGs, then I think it’s fair to classify the ones not listed as RPGs as RPGs if it’s similar gameplay. Again, a Yakuza expert can say far better then I. Dissidia and Chocoho’s Mystery Dungeon should absolutely count as part of the series. I strongly feel that as far as series goes, how PSNP shows the series should be used as a basis and not whether or not the name of the series is in the title of the game. 

As @AlterArchuria said, Yakuza 4-6 aren’t listed as RPGs for some reason. That shouldn’t stop it from being an RPG in my opinion.

 

And seeing as Touhou Genso Wanderer is on the list, as that just the original or does it include reloaded? 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Warpedsavior

[CaptainMonkster]

For my double point RPGS I would like atelier Lula (if that counts as an rpg) and ff7 remake. For my triple pointer I'm gonna choose sword art online hollow realisation!

Edited January 30, 2021 by CaptainMonkster

[Lord_Bane999]

5 hours ago, Mesopithecus said:

 

I disagree with this tbh, especially as Dissidia is known as "Dissidia Final Fantasy" and not to mention that both games are under the series bracket for Final Fantasy both here and TrueTrophies.

 

Also, in terms of the Most Wanted list I have problems with Elite Dangerous being on there as it isn't an RPG and doesn't really have RPG elements - I have no clue why PSNP lists it as an RPG especially as no other site does.  My husband has a couple of thousand hours of this on PC so I have some knowledge and experience of the game - Playstation Store lists it as action, shooter, simulation (which is 100% what it is)

 

 

I was the one who suggested Elite Dangerous as a Most Wanted. I've played alot of 4X and Space Sim games myself. Including Eve, X Series and Elite Dangerous itself on PC mostly. Alot of these games have a RPG style mechanics where you could easily swap out for make the equivalency of your ship and it's features is basically your armor and weapons. The special effects or bonuses some parts give off are your skills one would use and finally in most of these games you are given the freedom as such in modern RPGs like Skyrim to side and be who you want. You have choices and can roleplay your pilots into mercenaries, explorers, pirates and affect various factions.

 

If there's an overwhelming vote of opinion I'll conceed but to compare it to an arcade like shooter something that Starlink or Descent games would be more is pretty wrong.

 

 

Edit:

 

On the terms of sub series I feel these shouldn't be included in the main series for series stacker too. Games like Dissidia Final Fantasy and Chocobo Mystery Dungeon while part of the final fantasy brand are part of their own series of games that exist over multiple systems and games. Dissidia for example has not just the game for PS4 but also from PSP, mobile and arcade all under its branding. (Dissidia depsite the level mechanics is also a 1 on 1 fighting game.)

 

Chocobos series follows into this same vein. While it's the only game on PS4 it's been an established series since the PS1. While I agree Chocobo is a RPG like other Mystery Dungeon titles I don't feel it should be considered part of the main series since it has its own dedicated series.

 

This obviously would extend to other things I feel like my own picks for example where I picked two Persona games and SMT 3. While they are all of the larger Shin Megami Tensei brand. Persona is still its own separate series and should be counted as such. As should other games in this sense that went on to become their own series.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Lord_Bane999

[Mesopithecus]

1 hour ago, Lord_Bane999 said:

I was the one who suggested Elite Dangerous as a Most Wanted. I've played alot of 4X and Space Sim games myself. Including Eve, X Series and Elite Dangerous itself on PC mostly. Alot of these games have a RPG style mechanics where you could easily swap out for make the equivalency of your ship and it's features is basically your armor and weapons. The special effects or bonuses some parts give off are your skills one would use and finally in most of these games you are given the freedom as such in modern RPGs like Skyrim to side and be who you want. You have choices and can roleplay your pilots into mercenaries, explorers, pirates and affect various factions.

 

If there's an overwhelming vote of opinion I'll conceed but to compare it to an arcade like shooter something that Starlink or Descent games would be more is pretty wrong.

 

 

I think in the object of fairness in a dispute such as this, using the requirements listed in the first post of checking against what other sites have this game listed as would be beneficial.  In this instance, only PSNP lists the game as RPG

 

PSNProfiles - Role Playing, Strategy, Simulation, Adventure, Indie

Playstation Trophies - Action

True Trophies - Open World, Simulation, Vehicular Combat, Aerial, MMO

Playstation Store - Action, Shooter, Simulation

Wikipedia - Space trading and combat

 

(I bet some of those links don't even work that I posted cos this site blocks True Trophies as being not allowed for some dumb reason)

 

From everything I've experienced of the game personally, it's space simulation/sandbox.  If we take other simulation games such as say Sims 4 for an example, I could debate that has roleplaying elements under the metrics you can choose skills, jobs etc. and role-play your character however you want - and yet it's simply listed as simulation/sandbox

[Psy-Tychist]

I have updated the Most Wanted list to have 10 games I think fit the category of time consumimg or difficult.

[da_eMTy]

I want to join aswell.

I will update my post in a few hours with the 2x , 3x games.

[Lord_Bane999]

28 minutes ago, Mesopithecus said:

 

I think in the object of fairness in a dispute such as this, using the requirements listed in the first post of checking against what other sites have this game listed as would be beneficial.  In this instance, only PSNP lists the game as RPG

 

PSNProfiles - Role Playing, Strategy, Simulation, Adventure, Indie

Playstation Trophies - Action

True Trophies - Open World, Simulation, Vehicular Combat, Aerial, MMO

Playstation Store - Action, Shooter, Simulation

Wikipedia - Space trading and combat

 

(I bet some of those links don't even work that I posted cos this site blocks True Trophies as being not allowed for some dumb reason)

 

From everything I've experienced of the game personally, it's space simulation/sandbox.  If we take other simulation games such as say Sims 4 for an example, I could debate that has roleplaying elements under the metrics you can choose skills, jobs etc. and role-play your character however you want - and yet it's simply listed as simulation/sandbox

I guess this would lead into the conversation again of RPG-Lite versus RPG again that always seems to happen for the genre.

 

Btw on this subject I noticed Yakuza Like a Dragon is the only definite RPG marked by most other sites. But alot of people feel the rest of the series is one as well. I frankly disagree with this hugely. The game is an action adventure/ beat'em up. If all of the titles are included beyond Like a Dragon then these same people who defend that must also accept series like grand theft auto and Batman Arkham series under the same principle. If you think those two series aren't RPGs then don't accept Yakuza 1-6 and Judgment as one.