DrBloodmoney's Super Scientific Ranking of Games!

[grayhammmer]

Okay, given your puzzle game prowess, and the fact that you've referenced how much you like it, I'd like you to do an analysis for "The Witness". I'd like to complete it myself but prolonged play seems to make me nauseous for some reason.

Edited August 10, 2021 by grayhammmer

[YaManSmevz]

I've never been big on racing games, but your Burnout review makes me second guess myself and wonder if I've been sleepin...

 

Also I loved that you made the Inglorious Basterds parallel to The Saboteur. Great dumb fun indeed?

 

Brilliant work as always, Doc!??

[DrBloodmoney]

5 hours ago, grayhammmer said:

Okay, given your puzzle game prowess, and the fact that you've referenced how much you like it, I'd like you to do an analysis for "The Witness". I'd like to complete it myself but prolonged play seems to make me nauseous for some reason.

 

Absolutely mate - I will add to the Priority Ranking list with your name ?

 

On a side note - I have heard from a couple people that The Witness can be a rough one for causing motion sickness during the walking around parts - something that might be worth considering if you like it, but are having issues with that - if you take a very, very small blob of blue-tac (literally the size of a sesame seed) - and stick it in the centre of your TV, it can really help - a lot of games will deliberately have a centre dot on the screen at all times in the UI to help with this (I noticed the game I'm currently playing, Returnal, has one... and with the speed it moves at, it makes sense)

 

May be worth a try? 

 

 

5 hours ago, YaManSmevz said:

I've never been big on racing games, but your Burnout review makes me second guess myself and wonder if I've been sleepin...

 

I'm with you man - racing games are not a strong suit of mine - I have less than zero interest in racing Sim games (Gran Turismo / Forza and the likes) but I do occasionally get the hankering for a good arcade racing game...

 

...though part of what has kind of soured me on that whole genre, is that in 14 years, I have never played a single one that measures up to Burnout Paradise! The last time I dipped my toes was really Need for Speed: Rivals, and that game was a real disappointment - it was open world (and in it's defence - looked great visually) but it was such a soulless, heartless, plodding game that it really made me decide that I'm going to do my research before playing another one - and only do so, basically, if people generally compare it to Burnout ?

 

 

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Also I loved that you made the Inglorious Basterds parallel to The Saboteur. Great dumb fun indeed?

 

That was a really strange one to summarise, as I found that I kept writing down thoughts, and they kept feeling like negatives... but I actually really enjoyed the game, so kept trying to figure out why there was that dissonance... until I realised that it is the kind of game that - because it has that Inglorious Basterds tone, it is actually in a weird way made better for being a bit rougher around the edges. It feels like it knows exactly what it it, and wants to revel in it - and let you do the same - rather than pretend it is something grander or more prestigious...

 

It's probably not a coincidence that Inglorious Basterds is also my favourite Tarantino movie... ?

 

 

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Brilliant work as always, Doc!??

 

Thank you sir ?

Edited August 10, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[Copanele]

10 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

There is some of the usual Far Cry humour here, though the lack of english dialogue makes this a harder sell. The 'Hurk' stand in is woefully unfunny, and a source of eye-rolling (though I must admit, I find Hurk to be a low point in every Far Cry game, and find his continual reuse to be a cringe inducing flogging of a long dead horse.) 

 

So so glad I am not the only one here. I honestly never understood why people were amused by this  waste of hard drive space. He's the most unfunny and useless character in the franchise.

And you can't even kill him  

 

Great review as always! Enjoyed to see that you also liked Far Cry Primal, it was one unique game for sure (if not that exciting to play after the 6th Udam camp or so).

[DrBloodmoney]

5 minutes ago, Copanele said:

So so glad I am not the only one here. I honestly never understood why people were amused by this  waste of hard drive space. He's the most unfunny and useless character in the franchise.

And you can't even kill him  

 

Urgh - me and a buddy of mine have had an ongoing argument over the years about who is the most irritating reccuring NPC character - I say Hurk, he says Zeke (from inFamous / inFamous 2).

 

I think part of what I really disliked about the tone of Far Cry 5, was it felt like Hurk was not only leaned into, but had somehow infected the matrix like Agent Smith - it felt like every character was moulding into a version of Hurk - each less funny and more cringe inducing than the last!

 

5 minutes ago, Copanele said:

Great review as always! Enjoyed to see that you also liked Far Cry Primal, it was one unique game for sure (if not that exciting to play after the 6th Udam camp or so).

 

Yeah - decent game - definitely better than it should be - I remember seeing the first trailer and thinking "What the hell are they doing - did they lose a bet?" but was more than surprised how well it worked!

 

Still reckon it is "lesser Far Cry" in terms of the modern ones (FC3 onwards), but still a fun ride.

[AJ_Radio]

I honestly found Far Cry boring. Probably won't touch Far Cry 5 or New Dawn, or that new Far Cry game Ubisoft is going to release.

 

Won't even think of starting Far Cry 2, let alone finish it.

[DrBloodmoney]

2 minutes ago, AJ_Radio said:

I honestly found Far Cry boring. Probably won't touch Far Cry 5 or New Dawn, or that new Far Cry game Ubisoft is going to release.

 

Won't even think of starting Far Cry 2, let alone finish it.

 

To be honest, you've played the best of them already - Far Cry 3 & 4 are really the peak of the games (I don't like 2, and never played the original though). 

 

Far Cry 5 is mechanically sound, but the story is hot mince. New Dawn is a far better game, but never reaches the heights of 3 or 4, so I don't really think you would miss much by skipping them.

 

I'll give the new one a shot though - they are too mechanically satisfying for me to ever count the series out - even when the story lacks engagement, the simple act of taking over camps is always a fun thing to do regardless of how mindless the rest of the game might get at times

[rjkclarke]

I did read your latest rankings quite late last night, I'm only now getting  around to responding. That was a fantastic read as ever Doc.... You know, the thing we talked about yesterday happened last night. Looks like I can't write a Saboteur review for a while, for fear of sounding like I'm just parroting all of your ideas. I'm completely fine with that though, that was an absolute blast to read through. That's not giving it the fanfare it deserves though, it was brilliant. Maybe my brain can't find suitable adjectives before 12PM? You struck the balance so brilliantly between - making the game seem appealing to an audience that haven't played it (but now potentially might), whilst reminding folks like me and @YaManSmevz why we were fond of the game to begin with. That's no easy task, and you absolutely nailed that.

 

That was very interesting reading your thoughts on Burnout Paradise too. I feel like I ought to give that game another chance. It's not on my profile, because I played it on the Xbox 360, before Microsoft decided, "hey you haven't used your account for 2 years? DELETE."  I can't quite pin-point exactly what I wasn't that keen on. I think, when I played it I think I was a bit peeved that I actually had to learn the layout of the city, and I always felt that navigating to specific races was a pain (what a self entitled 18 year old tit I must have been eh), instead of being able to just play them. Mind you, this was ten plus years ago, I think I'd know what to expect a little better these days. I do feel like I never quite got Burnout Paradise, despite actually being a big fan of Burnout when i was younger. That's another one that's definitely a me problem.

 

It is unfortunate we live in that timeline where Need for Speed wasn't the tired old horse sent to the glue factory. Have you checked out Dangerous Driving? That's the closest comparison I can think of to Burnout, I mean it's made by the original devs so it definitely should feel like Burnout.  It's quite rough around the edges though (yet impressive for such a small team), and the rubber banding is a bit tiresome, but it does most importantly feel like Burnout, I'd heard they're planning to make the next title open world like Paradise, so that'll either be good, or potentially a disaster.

 

Nice to see a fair analysis given to Far Cry Primal, I think that game gets quite unfairly derided, without much backup as to why people didn't like it. Just, that they didn't. I'd never claim it was the best Far Cry game, but I had quite a lot of fun playing it myself. I appreciated the fact Ubisoft were trying something new. They have to be commended for that at least.

 

There were so many interesting comparisons there in your Sly review. I appreciate the fact you went there, in mentioning that Murray and Bentley become a little irritating in future titles. Murray especially, both characters become fairly two dimensional in the later games, and that's possibly generous in Murray's case. Bentley though, he becomes a misery sponge in the later titles. Sucker Punch seemed to think we loved seeing him sad or something. In fact if Bentley was a character in a soap opera, he'd be one of the ones -  with all the dead family members, plenty of failed marriages, hit by cars, shot. If we'd had more Sly games, I bet most of those things probably would have happened to the poor fella.

 

I enjoyed learning what Sound Shapes was too. Much like Aabs animals, I'd only ever heard about the trophies and never actually looked into what it was as a game, so that sounds like on that level, it's got a lot more artistic merit than most would give it credit for.  

 

Looking forward to whatever is in the next batch!!

[DrBloodmoney]

1 hour ago, rjkclarke said:

I did read your latest rankings quite late last night, I'm only now getting  around to responding. That was a fantastic read as ever Doc.... You know, the thing we talked about yesterday happened last night. Looks like I can't write a Saboteur review for a while, for fear of sounding like I'm just parroting all of your ideas. I'm completely fine with that though, that was an absolute blast to read through. That's not giving it the fanfare it deserves though, it was brilliant. Maybe my brain can't find suitable adjectives before 12PM? You struck the balance so brilliantly between - making the game seem appealing to an audience that haven't played it (but now potentially might), whilst reminding folks like me and @YaManSmevz why we were fond of the game to begin with. That's no easy task, and you absolutely nailed that.

 

Haha - it's the perils of reading one another reviews  - we did, after all, both start our checklists within a day of one another, and have quite a few games in common, so there's always gonna be crossover - I'm just straight up avoid doing any game you've done too recently, as it'll be plagiarism by proxy!

 

Maybe I should have gone back to my first attempt at a trophy checklist - and just review every game with 17 syllabi - Man, this was an idea that never gained an ounce of traction! ?

 

 

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That was very interesting reading your thoughts on Burnout Paradise too. I feel like I ought to give that game another chance. It's not on my profile, because I played it on the Xbox 360, before Microsoft decided, "hey you haven't used your account for 2 years? DELETE."  I can't quite pin-point exactly what I wasn't that keen on. I think, when I played it I think I was a bit peeved that I actually had to learn the layout of the city, and I always felt that navigating to specific races was a pain (what a self entitled 18 year old tit I must have been eh), instead of being able to just play them. Mind you, this was ten plus years ago, I think I'd know what to expect a little better these days. I do feel like I never quite got Burnout Paradise, despite actually being a big fan of Burnout when i was younger. That's another one that's definitely a me problem.

 

It is unfortunate we live in that timeline where Need for Speed wasn't the tired old horse sent to the glue factory. Have you checked out Dangerous Driving? That's the closest comparison I can think of to Burnout, I mean it's made by the original devs so it definitely should feel like Burnout.  It's quite rough around the edges though (yet impressive for such a small team), and the rubber banding is a bit tiresome, but it does most importantly feel like Burnout, I'd heard they're planning to make the next title open world like Paradise, so that'll either be good, or potentially a disaster.

 

I've not seen Dangerous Driving - that's interesting... I must admit, the hankering to do a driving game comes fairly sporadically to me, but when it does, it would be nice to have one waiting in the wings, so I'll give that one a look!

 

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There were so many interesting comparisons there in your Sly review. I appreciate the fact you went there, in mentioning that Murray and Bentley become a little irritating in future titles. Murray especially, both characters become fairly two dimensional in the later games, and that's possibly generous in Murray's case. Bentley though, he becomes a misery sponge in the later titles. Sucker Punch seemed to think we loved seeing him sad or something. In fact if Bentley was a character in a soap opera, he'd be one of the ones -  with all the dead family members, plenty of failed marriages, hit by cars, shot. If we'd had more Sly games, I bet most of those things probably would have happened to the poor fella.

 

I will get to it eventually, but when I do Sly 2, I reckon I'm gonna have some serious bones to pick with what gets done with both those characters - Bentley especially. Given the eagegroup they are ostensibly aiming at, some of it just feels like such a bizarre angle to take!

 

 

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I enjoyed learning what Sound Shapes was too. Much like Aabs animals, I'd only ever heard about the trophies and never actually looked into what it was as a game, so that sounds like on that level, it's got a lot more artistic merit than most would give it credit for.  

 

Absolutely don't avoid Sound Shapes for that reason - if nothing else, it is worth playing purely for the music, which is pretty great. 

I would never put it in the same class as Aabs - if anything, it actually belongs in the same category as things like .detuned and Linger in Shadows - but unlike those games, actually achieves both the artistic and gameplay side, as opposed to falling down a rabbit hole of one and neglecting the other (Linger in Shadows) or tripping over and failing at both (.detuned) ?

 

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[Slava]

17 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Insomniac, however, had only released one game prior to Sly Cooper

17 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

the 'snap to object' platforming that Insomniac would recycle in their excellent Infamous series

17 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Insomniac does a reasonable job of at least nodding towards repeat play, in the form of timed challenge versions of the levels

 

You mean Sucker Punch.

 

Great novels reviews scientific analyses as always!

 

I really enjoyed what Criterion has done with open world and how well it worked in Burnout. But I think I still prefer Takedown and Revenge to Paradise. Not to say Paradise is underwhelming by any means, I just felt like it was a 9/10 game to me, when 3 and 4 were 10/10 or very close to 10.

- The races in Takedown and Revenge were limited to circular tracks, but they felt crazier and more dangerous (especially when you were driving on the wrong lane).

- Slo-mo crash cams are cool, but sometimes I just want to see the thing play out in real time. In previous game it was real time, but you could slow it down with a press of a button if you wanted. I'm not entirely sure, but I believe there was no ability to speed it up in Paradise. Correct me if I'm wrong.

- The biggest downgrade of course is the lack of a proper Crash mode. The Crash mode in Takedown and especially Revenge was sooooo goooood. It was hard but so satisfying. I didn't enjoy the replacement for this mode in Paradise. Your wrecked car is jumping along the streets like a rubber ball, wtf is this ?. Thankfully, it was entirely optional, so it didn't take anything away from the game.

 

I hoped for a new Burnout game for so many years, but today, if EA announced one, I don't think I would be excited. The key Burnout devs left the studio years ago. Today's Criterion is a shadow of its former self, every recent NFS has been seemingly mediocre (I haven't played NFS since 2011). It pains me to say, but a new Burnout would probably be just as bad.

 

Sly sound like a game I would love. Don't know how I manage to avoid it throughout all these years. I need to finish the PS2 platformer trifecta.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Slava

[DrBloodmoney]

26 minutes ago, Slava said:

 

You mean Sucker Punch.

 

Aha - you found my deliberate mistake - just making sure someone was paying attention... ?

 

Seriously though - confused myself by referencing Ratchet so much in that review I guess! ?

 

Cheers - corrected now ?

 

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Great novels reviews scientific analyses as always!

 

I really enjoyed what Criterion has done with open world and how well it worked in Burnout. But I think I still prefer Takedown and Revenge to Paradise. Not to say Paradise is underwhelming by any means, I just felt like it was a 9/10 game to me, when 3 and 4 were 10/10 or very close to 10.

- The races in Takedown and Revenge were limited to circular tracks, but they felt crazier and more dangerous (especially when you were driving on the wrong lane).

- Slo-mo crash cams are cool, but sometimes I just want to see the thing play out in real time. In previous game it was real time, but you could slow it down with a press of a button if you wanted. I'm not entirely sure, but I believe there was no ability to speed it up in Paradise. Correct me if I'm wrong.

- The biggest downgrade of course is the lack of a proper Crash mode. The Crash mode in Takedown and especially Revenge was sooooo goooood. It was hard but so satisfying. I didn't enjoy the replacement for this mode in Paradise. Your wrecked car is jumping along the streets like a rubber ball, wtf is this ?. Thankfully, it was entirely optional, so it didn't take anything away from the game.

 

I hoped for a new Burnout game for so many years, but today, if EA announced one, I don't think I would be excited. The key Burnout devs left the studio years ago. Today's Criterion is a shadow of its former self, every recent NFS has been seemingly mediocre (I haven't played NFS since 2011). It pains me to say, but a new Burnout would probably be just as bad.

 

I actually never played Revenge - that was Burnout 2, right?

I did play Takedown, and loved it at the time - to be honest, there was such a gap between me playing it and Paradise (and such a long time since I played my full playthrough of Paradise even) that I couldn't honestly tell you if I liked Paradise of Takedown more 

 

For sure though - Crash mode is a sad loss in Paradise, and as I said, I never really connected with Showtime mode - it's a fun, goofy thing, but not really my cup of tea, whereas Crash mode was a ton of fun!

 

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Sly sound like a game I would love. Don't know how I manage to avoid it throughout all these years. I need to finish the PS2 platformer trifecta.

 

I actually never played any of those mascot platformers back in the day much - I was put off by not really liking Crash Bandicoot (I still don't), and so missed out on Ratchet, Sly and Jak and Daxter (even Beyond Good and Evil got swept up in that too), and only discovered them with the PS3 re-releases. Was super happy to finally play all those series - though for sure the big finds were BG&E and especially Ratchet.

Sly (spoiler alert) had a really rough second game - though I did enjoy the third one....

...and Jak... well, you know my thoughts on Jak II - and I never even tried Jak III as a result ?

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[Slava]

3 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I actually never played Revenge - that was Burnout 2, right?

I did play Takedown, and loved it at the time - to be honest, there was such a gap between me playing it and Paradise (and such a long time since I played my full playthrough of Paradise even) that I couldn't honestly tell you if I liked Paradise of Takedown more 

 

Revenge is actually the 4th in the series ?. Takedown was the 3rd game. The first two games were not as good as far as I can tell (i've seen a bit of the first one at my friend's place long time ago). Takedown was the game that perfected the formula and made Burnout what it is. Revenge was very similar with some small changes.

[DrBloodmoney]

Just now, Slava said:

 

Revenge is actually the 4th in the series . Takedown was the 3rd game. The first two games were not as good as far as I can tell (i've seen a bit of the first one at my friend's place long time ago). Takedown was the game that perfected the formula and made Burnout what it is. Revenge was very similar with some small changes.

 

Ah, okay - that explains why there was such a gap between the two I played - turns out there was a whole game in-between that I somehow missed! ?

 

I looked it up and it makes sense - that was a 2005 release, so I was graduating and moving city and starting my career at the time, so gaming took a back seat for a couple years...

(plus, that was during my rather unbecoming descent into alcoholism - I pretty much skipped gaming entirely until I got sober in 2008 and needed something to do to keep my hands and mind active at night to keep me off the whisky ?)

 

 

[rjkclarke]

6 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Haha - it's the perils of reading one another reviews  - we did, after all, both start our checklists within a day of one another, and have quite a few games in common, so there's always gonna be crossover - I'm just straight up avoid doing any game you've done too recently, as it'll be plagiarism by proxy!

 

Maybe I should have gone back to my first attempt at a trophy checklist - and just review every game with 17 syllabi - Man, this was an idea that never gained an ounce of traction! 

 

You're far more productive at writing these and getting them out than I am. It's really very impressive.

I always forget the fact we started our respective threads a day apart. Even though, there's a thing hovering by the thread title on the trophy checklists area. My eyesight must be going ?.

 

I couldn't help but slap a rep point on that original checklist attempt, even if it is a locked thread. That was a really inventive idea. Some of those haiku's were really interesting and or funny.

 

6 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I've not seen Dangerous Driving - that's interesting... I must admit, the hankering to do a driving game comes fairly sporadically to me, but when it does, it would be nice to have one waiting in the wings, so I'll give that one a look!

 

I get the urge every now and then to play a driving game too. It's tough to recommend Dangerous Driving. It's another one that you could quite easily get stuck on  the idea - that if a trophy list isn't fun, then the game is bad. I know you don't think that way, and you know I don't either, so I doubt for you it'd be a problem. The biggest hurdle is learning to live with the rubber banding. If you were going to get it ever, I'd recommend getting the bundle that had Danger Zone 1 and 2 in it as well. Danger Zone 1 and 2. Those are essentially Burnout's Crash Mode the game. Dangerous Driving plays just like Burnout 3: Takedown, which is my personal favourite Burnout. @Slava - you might like that bundle too from everything you said above about the older Burnouts, but just know that the trophy requirements from Dangerous Driving do get a little grindy. I'd definitely recommend those Sly games Slava if you've never played them. I think I once wrongly described the first one to someone as a bit like a mixture of Crash Bandicoot and Metal Gear Solid. Oops, that sounds like a game created only from @DrBloodmoney's nightmare's considering his opinions on both of those games ?

 

6 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I will get to it eventually, but when I do Sly 2, I reckon I'm gonna have some serious bones to pick with what gets done with both those characters - Bentley especially. Given the eagegroup they are ostensibly aiming at, some of it just feels like such a bizarre angle to take!

 

Yes.. I know exactly what you mean, I won't spoil it for anyone who isn't aware either. I never quite understood the logic behind it. It's just bizarre. It's unique, yet still a strange decision defence  Murray just ends up with a similar character arc to Joey from Friends, starts off as somewhat of a functioning person, before eventually ending up as, well, what's the polite way to put this.. A Nimrod?

 

6 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Absolutely don't avoid Sound Shapes for that reason - if nothing else, it is worth playing purely for the music, which is pretty great. 

I would never put it in the same class as Aabs - if anything, it actually belongs in the same category as things like .detuned and Linger in Shadows - but unlike those games, actually achieves both the artistic and gameplay side, as opposed to falling down a rabbit hole of one and neglecting the other (Linger in Shadows) or tripping over and failing at both (.detuned)

 

Well, now I know what it is. I'm actually a little more inclined to play it. It sounds (pun not intended ?) like it's worth a look that's for sure.  I think I do have it, fairly sure it was a PS+ title at one point, I certainly don't recall buying it, unless a pixie buys PSN games on my account on the rare occasion I'm sleeping and I'm only just now noticing.

[Slava]

@rjkclarke Yep, I know about these games. I've heard Dangerous Driving was a little buggy at launch though. I'll keep them in mind!

 

I love MGS and Crash individually, but the mix of the two sounds like something that should not exist, haha ?.

[DrBloodmoney]

1 hour ago, rjkclarke said:

 I think I once wrongly described the first one to someone as a bit like a mixture of Crash Bandicoot and Metal Gear Solid. Oops, that sounds like a game created only from @DrBloodmoney's nightmare's considering his opinions on both of those games

 

haha ? oh, man - I wouldn't apply that description to Sly, certainly - but whatever game that would be - I think I might be coming to drill my teeth in a dream I have after eating too super before bed! ?

[rjkclarke]

16 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

haha  oh, man - I wouldn't apply that description to Sly, certainly - but whatever game that would be - I think I might be coming to drill my teeth in a dream I have after eating too super before bed! 

 

I never said it was a correct description haha!! ? I don't actually think it's like that at all. I think at the time my logic was - Cuddly animal + Stealth Mechanics = Sly Bandicoot Gear Solid Cooper. If that's how my brain processes logic I'd make a pretty naff and defective robot. Not my greatest call ever.

[DrBloodmoney]

2 minutes ago, rjkclarke said:

 

I never said it was a correct description haha!! I don't actually think it's like that at all. I think at the time my logic was - Cuddly animal + Stealth Mechanics = Sly Bandicoot Gear Solid Cooper. If that's how my brain processes logic I'd make a pretty naff and defective robot. Not my greatest call ever.

oh, for sure I see the logic - and truth be told, despite my personal distaste for MGS - I cannot deny that Sly Cooper, Crash Bandicoot (and, in fact, virtually all games) would most likely be made better by the addition of a cardboard box disguise ?

[rjkclarke]

7 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

oh, for sure I see the logic - and truth be told, despite my personal distaste for MGS - I cannot deny that Sly Cooper, Crash Bandicoot (and, in fact, virtually all games) would most likely be made better by the addition of a cardboard box disguise 

 

I mean if there was a cardboard box disguise in a game like Risen 3 for example, you'd at least not have to look at your ugly as sin character model, that wouldn't look out of place in Giant Country from The BFG. So I can definitely see why that might be an appealing thought.

 

What is it you don't like about MGS by the way? You can be brutal too, despite the avatar, that might suggest otherwise, I won't react like a fanny. I've got plenty of issues with that series myself. Mainly stemming from the creator being so far up his own backside, that I suspect there might be other Kojima's up there like a set of Russian dolls. Each one smaller than the last.

Edited August 10, 2021 by rjkclarke

[DrBloodmoney]

9 hours ago, rjkclarke said:

 

What is it you don't like about MGS by the way? You can be brutal too, despite the avatar, that might suggest otherwise, I won't react like a fanny. I've got plenty of issues with that series myself. Mainly stemming from the creator being so far up his own backside, that I suspect there might be other Kojima's up there like a set of Russian dolls. Each one smaller than the last.

oh my God… 

well - I’ll do my best here, but it’s late, I’m on my iPhone and I’ve had a coffee, so forgive me if this comes out as a bit ‘stream-of-consciousness’ ?

 

 

…If I’m brutally honest, it isn’t one specific thing that is a massive deal breaker, but it really does feel like every single aspect of the games is custom designed to rub me the wrong way.

 

Overall, the stories hit that perfect sweet spot between overly self-serious, yet brain bashingly stupid.

The whole saga is Dawsons Creek level soap-opera melodrama anime (all negatives for me,) yet Kojima treats it like high art in his lingering shots and insanely long cut scenes - and seems to think showing long shots of war machinery is a substitute for a point of view.

 

Plus, the added bonus of feigning an anti-war message, while at the same time being one of the most right wing, war hawkish things imaginable.
It really feels to me like Kojima is the kind of guy who watches First Blood, and thinks the message is “war made him awesome… Go War!”

 

Mechanically, the pacing is all over the place - every time I want to get some action, it’s a 20 minute visual novel of talking heads, then a 15 minute cutscene…

… but on the rare occasion I actually want some explanation, it’s “Nanomachines! whatever! Let’s go!”

 

The stealth is ropey, and never gives you enough tools to feel cool at it - so just makes the enemies dumb as hell to compensate.

 

The combat is sub-par and finicky (granted - I have been assured MGS5 sorted that out, and it is actually a good action game, so I guess that is something - but in MGS 1-4 it is pretty low quality in terms of controls and movement, and the camera is appalling and adds the worst kind of extra challenge - the unintended one of just not being able to see.)

 

The characters are all stolen from other media - usually media I don’t love to begin with, granted (the worst kind of anime and the dumbest kind of action movies) so I’m certainly not the audience - but still, Kojima doesn’t know how write dialogue for them either.

(How he is not considered 'David Cage, but without even the knack for plot', I will never understand…)

 

…but worst of all - the fan base is rabid!

It’s considered a faux-pax of the highest order to so much as point out that the Emperor has no Nanomachines on!

 

It really does feel to me like Kojima has managed to cast a spell on the entire gaming community, and I just happened to be in the bathroom when he did.
I truly do not understand why his games, which are so riddled with flaws, and don’t even compensate with coherent or interesting narratives, skate by everyone’s standards and get hailed as the best thing since sliced stealth, while vastly superior games with only one of the same flaws (say Syndicate or Deus Ex 3 - which had amazing mechanics, but just a bit of a weaker narrative) get lam-blasted for their one weakness.

 

All I can think is, there are so many things wrong with them, that no one is able to focus on just one of them, and it shorts out their brains to the point they mistake soap-opera anime bullshit with a flimsy stealth component as high art!

 

 

 

I will add though - These are my genuine thoughts (as asked for) - but full disclosure: I will probably delete this post at some point, as I don’t like being this negative about games, especially ones people do love.

 

It’s not my place to yuk someone else’s yum, so If someone loves them, I don’t want to be mean about it - we all have different tastes, and mine are as peculiar as the next fellows!

Edited August 11, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[Slava]

Damn, I disagree with so many points there ?. But it's too much to talk about. I'll just quickly focus on two.

 

MGS being right wing is so far from true. In MGS1 Kojima shows republicans as corrupt and obsessed with power. The president of the weapon tech company says he's angry at liberals, but he talks about bribes as a business practice. And there's a dialogue where Nastasha criticizes republicans for blocking some law to decrease the amount on nukes. 

 

About the fanbase, I've seen so many fans that actually hate many games in the series. Some people hate MGS4 (like me), some people hate The Phantom Pain, some people hate everything that came after MGS3 and Kojima for ruining the series. And a lot of Metal Gear fans don't take anything very seriously and/or just draw gay fanart lol. Honestly, I often hear about MGS fans that are like "No, you don't understand the depth!" or "You've got to read this book, than watch these movies, then play the games in this order", but I've actually never met them. Most of the fans I know personally like to make fun of Kojima for his questionable decisions. Me and my friend still make jokes about wolbachia from MGSV.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Slava

[rjkclarke]

13 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I’m on my iPhone and I’ve had a coffee, so forgive me if this comes out as a bit ‘stream-of-consciousness’

 

I bet that felt cathartic to write.. Those were some very interesting points you brought up there.

 

Wow, that's erm .... Well that's a lot to take in all at once. I'd still consider myself quite a big fan of the Metal Gear Solid series.. Yet I'm very far from being one of the rabid fanbase that would attack you for sharing those opinions. Actually, I commend you for stating them.

In fact I'm more likely to have one of that very rabid fanbase attack me for this response. I can already hear the cries of TRAITOR.

 

Kojima 100% thinks what he's doing is high art. That's also the thing that probably infuriates me the most. I always get a little bit triggered when I hear things like "Kojima should become a film-maker he'd be amazing" - he shouldn't, his films would be absolutely bloated and he'd prioritise certain "set pieces and waffling dialogue" over actual fluid storytelling. This will probably be a bit of a brutal comparison but he'd essentially be another Zack Snyder. If you're invested in the story or indoctrinated by it like I was at a young age, then you are probably more likely to forgive some of it.

 

23 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Mechanically, the pacing is all over the place - every time I want to get some action, it’s a 20 minute visual novel of talking heads, then a 15 minute cutscene…

… but on the rare occasion I actually want some explanation, it’s “Nanomachines! whatever! Let’s go!”

 

You should never ever play Metal Gear Solid 4 then, because, it amounts to all of that but multiplied by about ten. Metal Gear Solid is essentially fan service the video game. As a playable game, it kind of falls a little flat, you seem to spend about as much of your time skipping cutscenes as you do actually "playing the game." I mean, I've completed that game about ten times or so, so it's not like I don't enjoy it, but you just can't ignore obvious flaws like that.

 

I think this would ultimately be your response.

 

 

29 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

The stealth is ropey, and never gives you enough tools to feel cool at it - so just makes the enemies dumb as hell to compensate.

 

That's also a pretty decent point, you'd think after so many games there might have been a little bit more evolution in the  stealth mechanics themselves... I guess there's the argument that a rabid fanbase wouldn't necessarily respond well to change.. Look at Star Wars for a good example of that.

 

31 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

The characters are all stolen from other media - usually media I don’t love to begin with, granted (anime crap and dumb action movies) so I’m certainly not the audience - but still, Kojima doesn’t know how write dialogue for them either.

(How he is not considered David Cage, but without even the knack for plot, I will never understand…)

 

I suspect Kojima thinks he can get away with this because he's fairly open about where his influences come from. There's being influenced by something and then there's just "borrowing a little too heavily". I mean if you were influenced by Kafka you probably shouldn't have a character that's called Gregory Hamster, that becomes a hamster instead of an insect - and just assume that's fine.

 

I don't think he's quite on the level of David Cage (I still think he's further up his own rear), I think Kojima writes at his best, which is still definitely quite "out there" when he has someone overseeing his output a bit. I think the fact that any of the stories making tangible sense started to go out the window once Tomokazu Fukushima left the Metal Gear Solid series, pretty much tells you everything you need to know on that front.

 

The story-telling is very anime I agree, in fact you'd think that'd put me off a bit too, as I'm far from the biggest anime guy myself. I can appreciate good anime sure, but it's not something I've ever gone that out of my way to pursue, one of my friends is a rabid anime fan so he can usually point me in the direction of what's good and what isn't if I was that way inclined.

 

I think ultimately I have more of a problem with Kojima himself than I do the series, I think he treats people quite badly. He was so desperate to get rid of David Hayter for years and years as the voice of Snake in the vain hope, I suspect - that getting someone like Kiefer Sutherland or his dream get, Kurt Russell might give him a little bit more of a pathway into being a film-maker which I suspect might be where his heart truly lies.

 

Those were some great points you made man. I can't say I agree with every single one of them, you made some cracking arguments there though - but that's the joy of debate right? It's not as if you gave a silly answer like " I don't like it because it's bad"

[DrBloodmoney]

@rjkclarke @Slava

 

Absolutely guys - it’s my opinions, not a genuine review (y’all are spared that miserable read anyways, since I have no MGS S-Ranks ?)

 

Of course, I never want to genuinely try and win this kind of argument anyways…

… I mean, what would be ‘winning’ exactly?

…someone going “Oh, okay, well you’ve convinced me… this thing I loved I now don’t like anymore…?”

 

 …what a hollow victory that would be ?

 

I also want to commend you both for not using what should, by all rights, be the silver bullet argument that completely punctures all my points: The fact that I am a big Assassin’s Creed fan!

 

If there is one other series that has virtually all the same flaws - the self seriousness, the convoluted story, the sometimes ropey mechanics, the often wacky dialogue, it’s that one… and I still love it!

 

so who’s the big hypocrite here?

 

In the end, it’s purely a taste thing really, and there’s no accounting for that!

 

(Plus… maybe a smidge of annoyance that the MGS franchise as we know it is what a game I genuinely liked - Metal Gear for the MSX - turned into?)

 

[Slava]

5 minutes ago, rjkclarke said:

I always get a little bit triggered when I hear things like "Kojima should become a film-maker he'd be amazing" - he shouldn't

 

Ah, yeah, I hear this often as well. He really shouldn't. 

10 minutes ago, rjkclarke said:

 

This will probably be a bit of a brutal comparison but he'd essentially be another Zack Snyder. 

 

I kinda see the similarities, but I think Zack takes himself even more seriously. He wouldn't allow poop jokes and gay-thirst scenes in his movies. Kojima does this every 10 minutes.

 

I imagine Kojima would make a movie that would feel like Escape from LA. Have you seen that one? A sequel to Escape from NY. This movie is the most ridiculous B-movie I've seen in my entire life. The plot copies from the movie's own predecessor. The characters are weird AF. The scenes are over the top. I'm still not sure how self-aware this movie was supposed to be. 

 

21 minutes ago, rjkclarke said:

I suspect Kojima thinks he can get away with this because he's fairly open about where his influences come from. There's being influenced by something and then there's just "borrowing a little too heavily". 

 

"Good artists copy; great artists steal" ???

[Platinum_Vice]

21 hours ago, grayhammmer said:

Okay, given your puzzle game prowess, and the fact that you've referenced how much you like it, I'd like you to do an analysis for "The Witness". I'd like to complete it myself but prolonged play seems to make me nauseous for some reason.

 

Might be a Field of View issue. I had that with The Unfinished Swan. Gave me extreme nausea instantly. 

 

If that doesn't work, maybe try it on PC? They were looking at adding in an FOV slider back in 2016 for the PC.

On 10/08/2021 at 3:49 AM, DrBloodmoney said:

Working up the list, Burnout Paradise outpaces a lot of great games on these factors. So many, in fact, that I gave up on working up from Driver San Francisco, and instead, began at the very top of the list, and started working downwards instead, with the question "Which game has factors that combine to make it more awesome than Burnout Paradise's pure, unadulterated fun?".

 

My god this game is so good. Sometimes character arcs and a good narrative aren't necessary if the game iit's just simply F U N.

 

So many good memories with this one. Was really disappointed that I missed the chance to get the PS3 Plat, but made up for it with a Day 1 purchase of the "remaster" (read: port) and did it on PS4 instead. Great times.

 

Great soundtrack, great visuals, great mechanics. Asking for more would be greedy.