I hope they use a different localiser next time.

[Eraezr]

Normally I never complain about stuff like this. Throughout the years, I've seen some fans get irate because of poor localisations in a certain video game but it turned out fine enough for my inner weeb's sensibilities. I never go into these things with a harsh standard. But this game, this visual novel, I'm getting grated by what this translator did to this game.

 

The translations take strange liberties here and there by changing contexts and even a pet's name, as well not being as accurate to context as I prefer when consuming Japanese media. One example, the localiser doesn't care about distinguishing 'aniki' and 'onee-chan'. Personalised wordings are removed from the dialogue to make it read like standard speech which harms characterisation portrayal e.g when Saya says "Allow me to lend you a blade, Lady Maimi." the translator swapped out 'naginata' in favour of 'blade' even though the VN well establishes the fact that Saya is proficient with the naginata, it's part of her character lore which is why it's like that in the Japanese audio - like WHY would you do that? Why rub out the colours of personality from dialogue? It's counter-intuitive!

There are other odd wrinkles like 'macha' being called 'tea' rather than 'green tea' all the time, as if the translator doesn't care about these specifics. Absence of honorific in texts is also disappointing. Even correct spacing with punctuation is neglected in the proof-reading stage of the script. It'   s here. We'   re there.

 

Then there are the notes where little tidbits of  snark which seems derivative of western socio-politics which are sometimes footnoted in. This jarrs me out of the immersion of a small Japanese coastal town.

It's almost as if this pervert has already established a pattern of bullshitting all the time to justify his lurid desires. Can't tell if localiser is Captain Obvious or if it went over its head.

Is 'woke' even something a Japanese developer would have entered into Reference Notes?

 

 

I mean look, whatever your personal beliefs may be, you can act on that in a voting booth or tweet some recreational outrage on Twitter. But when working on a video game, it seems kinda unprofessional to change what Japanese developers are writing, especially since they're trusting you to deliver a product to a worldwide audience - in its lucid flavour of a cultural export.

 

Thankfully the VNs core storylines, designs and good production value makes up for the damage inflicted by this translator.

Edited yesterday at 02:13 AM by Eraezr

[Undead Wolf]

I completely agree. I'm so sick of these people inserting their own political views, memes, etc, into games like this under the guise of "localisation". It's really cringey. Their jobs as localisers should be to faithfully translate the original script. Not word for word of course as some things might not make sense in the other language, but the intent of the original scene/dialogue should be preserved. I buy Japanese games to hear what the devs have to say, not these woke and deeply unfunny localisers.

[colinnola]

I quite enjoyed this VN. The fact that it was localized is the only reason I was able to play it in the first place, and I really didn't have an issue with anything I read. If I ever do start to worry about the 'agenda' of those doing the localization, then it will be time for me to learn Japanese. 

[Chaos_Culture]

Oh boy, that's cringey.

I've came close to getting this game several times. Looks like I wont be making that mistake now.

I apologize for what my country has done to entertainment.
More specifically, I apologize for what California has done to entertainment, worldwide, just to push that state's weird ideology

[Eraezr]

34 minutes ago, Chaos_Culture said:

Oh boy, that's cringey.

I've came close to getting this game several times. Looks like I wont be making that mistake now.

I apologize for what my country has done to entertainment.
More specifically, I apologize for what California has done to entertainment, worldwide, just to push that state's weird ideology

 

Even Shuhei Yoshida has said on a stage talk that Japanese video games sell better internationally when they are Japanese to their ideologies and design, without constraints. He said they tend to do bad if trying to emulate western game's designs or cultural ideas.

[Chaos_Culture]

15 hours ago, Eraezr said:

 

Even Shuhei Yoshida has said on a stage talk that Japanese video games sell better internationally when they are Japanese to their ideologies and design, without constraints. He said they tend to do bad if trying to emulate western game's designs or cultural ideas.

People like to throw around the buzz term "cultural appropriation". This is, literal, cultural appropriation. This isnt a white dude wearing Japanese clothing because they are inspired by Japanese culture. This is changing the meaning behind a Japanese creation to push California values. Most of the United States hates California values. It's no surprise people, abroad, dont like them either.

Personally, I just do my research. It's not hard to educate yourself, if you want to be educated. Dont blind buy. Make sure the product wasnt tainted before giving them your money.

[de_digibeet]

Highly interesting. This was one of the games in which the translation/localisation actually didn't bother me. Maybe my Japanese simply isn't good enough to catch some details mentioned, though most of the game I barely looked at the subs and simply listened. Apparently I miss details like green tea vs black tea or the names of confectioneries, though these aren't that important to me.

 

I don't expect fansub methods from anything licensed, keeping honorifics and other Japanese cultural exclusives in tact is mostly unheard off in any localisation. Rewriting stuff way beyond cringe level is the case in most games, unfortunately. VNs are usually a rare exception to this and, in general, seem to stay closer to Japanese.

 

Unfortunately the aim of localisation isn't to translate but to rewrite it for a new audience. If you expect or want a translations, disappointment is quite likely. Which is why I am mostly disappointed as well. And the better my Japanese gets, the more disappointed I get with each game I play.

Games like Ni no Kuni and Yakuza got butchered beyond repair, if any game maker should switch localisers, it would be them.

 

As for this game, yeah I would have liked it to be a translation instead of a localisation. But for a localisation I thought it was okay. Which says more about the low regards I have for localisations in general and this being a bit better than the usual garbage bigger games are treated with.

Edited October 10, 2021 by de_digibeet

[Eraezr]

On 11/10/2021 at 6:23 AM, de_digibeet said:

Games like Ni no Kuni and Yakuza got butchered beyond repair, if any game maker should switch localisers, it would be them.

 

 

I did hear stories about Yakuza 3 having a bad localisation. Not sure about 4 or 0.

[Ancestral_Spirit]

40 minutes ago, Eraezr said:

 

I did hear stories about Yakuza 3 having a bad localisation. Not sure about 4 or 0.

 

What sort of problems are we talking about here? I've got all the Yakuza games so far, and i knew something was up but didn't know anything about Yakuza 3 specifically.

 

Kinda disappointed with myself for getting World End Syndrome now, i try to avoid getting games that drag political and social views around when they weren't present in the original text. It's why i flat out refuse to buy the new World Ends With You. There's a difference between localising something for the sake of being able to understand a different culture and its subtext more easily, and straight up re-writing things to fit whatever it is the translator FEELS the text SHOULD be.

 

I never bothered buying Red Strings Club for Switch either, because the game basically calls you a piece of shit for advancing the story the way it forces you too. I don't mind a bit of tongue in cheek humour, and poking fun at me from time to time, but the fact that games like that call you an asshole (not just in the context of the game but irl too) is a bit much for me.

[HuntingFever]

23 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

 

What sort of problems are we talking about here? I've got all the Yakuza games so far, and i knew something was up but didn't know anything about Yakuza 3 specifically.

 

Kinda disappointed with myself for getting World End Syndrome now, i try to avoid getting games that drag political and social views around when they weren't present in the original text. It's why i flat out refuse to buy the new World Ends With You. There's a difference between localising something for the sake of being able to understand a different culture and its subtext more easily, and straight up re-writing things to fit whatever it is the translator FEELS the text SHOULD be.

 

I never bothered buying Red Strings Club for Switch either, because the game basically calls you a piece of shit for advancing the story the way it forces you too. I don't mind a bit of tongue in cheek humour, and poking fun at me from time to time, but the fact that games like that call you an asshole (not just in the context of the game but irl too) is a bit much for me.

3 of the Yakuza games have borked localisations, see here for more details: 

 

[de_digibeet]

I don't have any notes nor have I done my research on Yakuza 3. And that forum topic will probably have loads more examples than got stuck in my memory. The one that really struck me and has stayed with me ever since as an example between a translation and a localisation was the scene where Kiryu was chased by some american agents. Kiryu then starts asking him some questions and the agent doesn't respond. So Kiryu says: 'nihongo wakaranai no ka?' => meaning: 'don't you understand Japanse?' And the subs say: 'not the talkative type ey?'.

This kind of stuff is everywhere in pretty much any game. It might touch on the situation and without knowing any Japanese whatsoever it can make some sort of sense. But when you can understand even 20%, these things start to stick out.

I won't even bother with the censoring or stuff being taken out of the game, or how the way the people address each other (the usage of family name vs personal name and which honorific gets added). In Yakuza 3 the subs keep saying Kazuma when the characters call him Kiryu.
I kinda hope I got the names right doing this from memory from way back when ...

Oh well, this topic isn't about Yakuza, but more about translation vs localisation in general, with World End Syndrome as yet another example of the differences between translations and localisations. And I'll stick to my general opinion that for a localisation it's pretty solid.

[Ancestral_Spirit]

3 hours ago, de_digibeet said:

This kind of stuff is everywhere in pretty much any game. It might touch on the situation and without knowing any Japanese whatsoever it can make some sort of sense. But when you can understand even 20%, these things start to stick out.

 

I notice this a lot when watching subbed anime.

I don't speak Japanese and would never claim to, but when you've been watching and playing things that are in Japanese, you do pick up on an odd sentence or two.

 

What i don't get is that you would have thought developers would have understood by now, anyone that was interested in a game like World End Syndrome or the Yakuza series, probably has some sort of knowledge about how honorifics are used in Japanese culture. Persona 4 in my opinion got this one right by still using honorifics like san, chan or kun.

 

Pretty much anyone that's into Japanese culture, will understand what those honorifics mean, for those that don't there should probably be some sort of mini encyclopedia for them to use. I can't even remember what game it was, but i remember one having something like this where it explained nuances in Japanese spoken language, or item names that would never have translated well into English. So the item and location names were still the Japanese names, in phonetic English, but then when you checked the encyclopedia it explained how to pronounce it, and some info or history behind it. (It's gonna bug me that i can't remember which game it was now   )

English translated manga does this a lot, so why can't it be the same for games?

 

Instead we get terrible localisation jobs, where really, it would better if the language was kept the same but an explanation was given. This way, you can stay true to the translation and maybe even educate people a little in the process.

3 hours ago, de_digibeet said:

I don't have any notes nor have I done my research on Yakuza 3. And that forum topic will probably have loads more examples than got stuck in my memory. The one that really struck me and has stayed with me ever since as an example between a translation and a localisation was the scene where Kiryu was chased by some american agents. Kiryu then starts asking him some questions and the agent doesn't respond. So Kiryu says: 'nihongo wakaranai no ka?' => meaning: 'don't you understand Japanse?' And the subs say: 'not the talkative type ey?'.

 

To me, something like this can change the tone of a scene entirely, and sometimes even affect how you view a characters personality.

The World Ends With You Neo seemed to do a lot of this, and almost every character in the English localisation talks like absolute shit to each other, and they all seem like real arseholes. But then when you read a translation, they seem a lot mellower and don't talk to each other acting like everyone other than themselves is a moron.

[Eraezr]

On 17/10/2021 at 1:09 AM, Ancestral_Spirit said:

To me, something like this can change the tone of a scene entirely, and sometimes even affect how you view a characters personality.

The World Ends With You Neo seemed to do a lot of this, and almost every character in the English localisation talks like absolute shit to each other, and they all seem like real arseholes. But then when you read a translation, they seem a lot mellower and don't talk to each other acting like everyone other than themselves is a moron.

 

I didn't know this was a thing about the sequel. Real shame.

[Raidou Kuzunoha XIV]

I bought this game ages ago (like, release date ages ago), and wasn't aware there was some butchering in the localisation, though I can't say I'm too surprised. I still look forward to eventually playing it, but it is a shame that this kind of thing is rather common with Japanese games that are localised into English.

 

On 16/10/2021 at 3:09 PM, Ancestral_Spirit said:

To me, something like this can change the tone of a scene entirely, and sometimes even affect how you view a characters personality.

The World Ends With You Neo seemed to do a lot of this, and almost every character in the English localisation talks like absolute shit to each other, and they all seem like real arseholes. But then when you read a translation, they seem a lot mellower and don't talk to each other acting like everyone other than themselves is a moron.

 

Wasn't aware of this either. Again, still looking forward to playing it regardless, but it still sucks nonetheless.

 

I bitch about this game a lot, but Lunar's initial localisation still irks me. Same goes for most of Wrecking Working Designs' other localisations. Things getting "lost" in translation or otherwise mistranslated, and almost entire scripts being changed when translated into English isn't anything new for Japanese developed games. I think it has at least gotten a lot better in recent years, there used to be a lot more games with several typos and straight up untranslated text, but some translators do seem to take more liberties than others. Obviously I don't expect literal translations for most things (otherwise then we'd have more things like Breath of Fire 1 and 2 which had God awful translations), as much of the nuance in Japanese would otherwise be lost when converted to English, and some things don't really have any real kind of English translation, so I can understand taking liberties translating instances like that. But I'd rather not have a character's personality and/or tone changed, or things that otherwise don't exist in their original form getting added in in the localisation.

 

The issues with translations have been one of the things that has prompted me to try and learn Japanese a few times, but I often just don't have the time or motivation to ever seriously learn it, especially not when I'm just going to be using it primarily for entertainment. I've frequently browsed the Legends of Localization website for better understanding on infamously erroneous translations.

 

All that being said, I know sometimes people claim something has been changed in the English localisation when that isn't really the case. Like Kaito apparently being a homophobic asshole in the original Japanese version of Danganronpa V3 (he isn't, he's pretty much the exact same character in both versions), or the whole drama of the House in Fata Morgana a year or two ago.

 

I think some people do have a habit of looking for stuff that isn't even there when it comes to issues like this, which just creates even more issues and misinformation about what has actually being changed in the Western localisation. Not implying OP of doing this at all, just something else that irritates me when it comes to the whole debacle of Japanese games getting localised, because there's already enough problems with actual mistranslations and things being inserted into localisations that didn't exist in the original script, that I'd rather not have misinformation thrown into the pot on top of all that.

[Ancestral_Spirit]

5 hours ago, SuperSmexy500 said:

The issues with translations have been one of the things that has prompted me to try and learn Japanese a few times, but I often just don't have the time or motivation to ever seriously learn it, especially not when I'm just going to be using it primarily for entertainment. I've frequently browsed the Legends of Localization website for better understanding on infamously erroneous translations.

 

 

I had never heard of this site until now.

It is a goddamn treasure trove of hilarious translation errors. Some of my faves:

 

1. Supports and controls support and manage the support supported by a supporter

2. I'll jack into your squirrel if that's what it takes

3. I have no idea who you are, but i thank you for arousing me

 

Think i know what i'll be surfing through this evening 

[MMDE]

It's not like they did a great job in general either. Your example is more of a political one, which is worse in a game like this. Those "hints" are there to explain to me some Japanese cultural thing I might not otherwise understand. So far I've not really encountered a single thing where those hints actually explain anything useful, so I've wondered if they are not properly translated either.

 

Totally unrelated, I'm sick of the girl in the PJ, her cat and mom. Always cringe when the mom tell the girl twice about the responsibility of taking care of a cat, after she had put the cat in a box, a box it could not escape by itself, in the middle of the forest. So much dialogue and always the same stuff, even if it's expanded upon once.  

[Eraezr]

On 15/02/2022 at 11:47 AM, MMDE said:

It's not like they did a great job in general either. Your example is more of a political one, which is worse in a game like this. Those "hints" are there to explain to me some Japanese cultural thing I might not otherwise understand. So far I've not really encountered a single thing where those hints actually explain anything useful, so I've wondered if they are not properly translated either.

 

Totally unrelated, I'm sick of the girl in the PJ, her cat and mom. Always cringe when the mom tell the girl twice about the responsibility of taking care of a cat, after she had put the cat in a box, a box it could not escape by itself, in the middle of the forest. So much dialogue and always the same stuff, even if it's expanded upon once.  

 

It was weird that the mum left the box in an isolated area too, rather than somewhere in town.

[AlonMercer]

Aw man! I was looking forward to playing this till I saw this post. Does anyone know of any good VNs that don't butcher the translation? This is a genre I'm not familiar with but wanting to get into and had WorldEnd recommended to me. 

[Eraezr]

12 hours ago, AlonMercer said:

Aw man! I was looking forward to playing this till I saw this post. Does anyone know of any good VNs that don't butcher the translation? This is a genre I'm not familiar with but wanting to get into and had WorldEnd recommended to me. 

 

I'd still recommend World End either way for its unusually good production values - for a visual novel. The localisation is the only scar inflicted on the VN, by the localiser. But if you want something more sound, check out Steins; Gate, Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Trilogy, Punch Line  and 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim.

[Theladozz]

On 4/18/2022 at 4:06 PM, AlonMercer said:

Aw man! I was looking forward to playing this till I saw this post. Does anyone know of any good VNs that don't butcher the translation? This is a genre I'm not familiar with but wanting to get into and had WorldEnd recommended to me. 

It's a good VN so you should play it if you're interested in the genre. I guarantee you won't find issues with the translation either unless you're a japanophile.

[TimeLordCrow13y]

I’ll still play this at some point, but I do wish translators in general would “stick to the script” as it were. I notice translation errors in games, anime, and the like all the time, even though I only know a few words of Japanese. 

 

I don’t mind changing the translation if there’s a play on words, pun or something similar that will make complete sense in one language, but not at all in the other. I do agree with others in this thread that honorifics should remain intact, though.  But I am strongly against censorship 99% of the time, despite being almost as far left as someone in the US can be politically. As to the scenes posted by the OP, yeah, I seriously doubt the Japanese devs wrote it that way. It doesn’t annoy me because of the “wokeness,” (I like my games to be politically progressive if the devs intended it) it annoys me because it’s not sticking to the script. And because it’s just...kind of awkward dialogue to begin with. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by TimeLordCrow13y

[Eraezr]

I've submitted an expression of feedback to Arc Sys, about having a PS5 SKU retail port with a newly done localisation script over here https://arcsystemworks.com/support/

 

If anyone has any feedback to Arc Sys regarding WES ports or how they can generally do better with future visual novels, I recommending positing your personal feedback to add to the collective sentiment.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Eraezr

[Dark_Overlord]

1 hour ago, TimeLordCrow13y said:

I’ll still play this at some point, but I do wish translators in general would “stick to the script” as it were. I notice translation errors in games, anime, and the like all the time, even though I only know a few words of Japanese. 

 

I don’t mind changing the translation if there’s a play on words, pun or something similar that will make complete sense in one language, but not at all in the other. I do agree with others in this thread that honorifics should remain intact, though.  But I am strongly against censorship 99% of the time, despite being almost as far left as someone in the US can be politically. As to the scenes posted by the OP, yeah, I seriously doubt the Japanese devs wrote it that way. It doesn’t annoy me because of the “wokeness,” (I like my games to be politically progressive if the devs intended it) it annoys me because it’s not sticking to the script. And because it’s just...kind of awkward dialogue to begin with. 

 

They won't, they openly admit they're activists first and translators second.

 

This popped up again recently

 

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/04/18/resurfaced-interview-sees-skies-of-arcadia-translator-admit-localization-team-rewrote-a-lot-of-the-dialog-completely/

[TimeLordCrow13y]

58 minutes ago, Dark_Overlord said:

 

They won't, they openly admit they're activists first and translators second.

 

This popped up again recently

 

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/04/18/resurfaced-interview-sees-skies-of-arcadia-translator-admit-localization-team-rewrote-a-lot-of-the-dialog-completely/

 

Jeez. Same team I guess? I just skimmed the article. As, admittedly, a huge fan of BTVS for most of my life (still am), the line about trying to “emulate” Joss Whedon’s style makes me think they’re less of “activists” and more of “we mostly do whatever we want, who cares about accurately translating the original text, lol.” 

 

This is is a very recent article, and Joss isn’t praised much by anyone (myself included) on the left OR right these days for reasons. That they’d admit to emulating his style makes me think they don’t care about winning any “progressive” points. 

 

ETA: Nevermind, article’s originally from 2015. Whatever the reason for greatly altering text, I personally wouldn’t want this team in charge of localizing my game if I were a Japanese dev. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by TimeLordCrow13y

[Eraezr]

On 20/04/2022 at 6:54 AM, TimeLordCrow13y said:

 

This is is a very recent article, and Joss isn’t praised much by anyone (myself included) on the left OR right these days for reasons. 

 

The treatment pop culture/Twitter gave Joss Whedon for Avengers 2 was kinda unfair but since 2017, Whedon really had it coming with how he's been tying his own noose then. I mean, locking a stunt double in a room and threatening to have her blacklisted from the industry just because she doesn't want to do a boob landing scene? What a dipshit. That was only one of many.

 

He's even lost his edge with what made him somewhat talented with Firefly and all that, now.