Microsoft is buying Activision Blizzard for $68.7 billion [FTC sues to stop - CMA issues updated preliminary findings]

[Rozalia1]

13 hours ago, Zephrese said:

Gotta love it when so many people blindly roll over and clap like brainwashed seals for every major multimillion (or, in this case, billion) dollar acquisition by multibillion dollar corporations, and mindlessly praise a blatantly corrupt multibillion dollar corporation with a long and well established history of shady business practices, anti-consumerism, and an entire menagerie of excuses as to why their products (in this case from their gaming division in specific) come out in the often sloppy manner that they do (if they come out at all). And usually all on the account of "muh capitalism", a system that's become incredibly tumorous, predatory, and anti-consumer over the last few decades (it's "better" than some other economic/political systems, but that's not saying much at this point). It's an even bigger kicker when people focus on the evil of the company being acquired, completely ignoring the objectively greater and much more all-encompassing evil that is posed by the company doing the acquiring (and how the evil of the former is likely to be swept under the rug and not properly addressed or punished in the process). Wonder how these same people will feel when corporations (likely inevitably) don't need the governments of the world as a middle man and puppet anymore because of how easy it is to convince people to eat from their hands and turn them against people who're not falling for it like an angry mob of mind controlled zombies.

 

I feel it is even dirtier with Microsoft though as at least those other big companies have a lot of very dedicated fans so when you see stuff like that you can trust it is a lot of real people doing it. Microsoft in gaming has been declining for over a decade now and due to their heavy use of astroturfing you can't trust a lot of this stuff isn't a result of that.

 

Also, there likely isn't any good news on the horizon on that front either. Microsoft as we know is heavily invested in AI... so we can expect they'll eventually, if they aren't already making use of it already, astroturfing being done by advanced AIs that won't be as obvious as the Xbots or perhaps even their low level shills.

 

Relating to what you've said, here is one of their well known shills talking.

 

 

This is also why again, it is hard to trust these shills. After the CMA decision he seemingly lost hope on it going through, almost as if he was reacting honestly as there were no accepted narrative to push. Give it a bit of time though and now suddenly Microsoft will "call the CMA's bluff" who will go to their knees and let it go through. Note that when he lost hope he was doing so in a manner where he was saying that Britain is obstinate and will maintain their position no matter what pressure Microsoft puts on them, as that is the British way.

 

I'll address this gunk again quickly. Microsoft has already tried this "bluff calling" on the CMA before with the structural remedies and lost. What leverage do they now have that will make a second attempt successful? They'll pull out of the country? Telling someone you want to give you something that they better give it or you'll blow your own brains out isn't exactly a compelling case. In such a scenario it would be the CMA that would call Microsoft's bluff as they'd have to gone insane to actually carry out such an action.

 

Another one going round the green camp is the idea that the CAT will deem the cloud concerns irrational and declare to the CMA that they cannot use cloud concerns at all in their decision making. The CMA has already thrown out console and subscription concerns, so if cloud goes they'll have nothing at all and so the CMA will have no choice not only to pass the deal, but to do so unconditionally. All this when even if you were to ignore the FTC's views which are more against Microsoft than the CMA's, the EU who passed the deal for Microsoft outright stated that the cloud concerns are large enough that it would require a block, but they're happy with the 10 year deals as being enough. So if even the EU, who has passed the deal, agrees that the cloud concerns are enough for a block, would the CAT throw those concerns out?

 

Of course all of the above and other hogwash being thrown around is all based around one very big thing. Corruption. I get the Xbots and shills aren't going to let this affect them, but for those who are real Xbox fans... does this not give any pause? The whole "wait, are we the baddies?" never comes up? If the narrative of the deal is it will go through because Microsoft is too powerful in the ways of corruption to allow themselves to fail... then why would you be a fan of such a company? When it comes to Sony and Nintendo if their fans start talking domination it'll be because they have the best games, the most dedicated fanbase, those sort of things. With Xbox/Microsoft it is that they have massive amounts of money, will buyout everybody, and will payoff any regulator/government who tries to stop them. Why would you want that? Why would you be a fan of that? The fact that Microsoft getting told no makes the conversation instantly go to Microsoft being overwhelmingly powerful and will use corruption to get the deal through on its own tells you the deal should not go through. 

 

---

 

May 24th is the final day Microsoft can make an appeal to the CAT and if Microsoft doesn't put in an appeal within that deadline then things are done. The interesting detail here is Microsoft was supposed to put in an appeal quickly to get the process started sooner, and yet they're now near the end of the deadline and they've yet to submit anything. It could of course mean that Microsoft's army of lawyers are hard at work putting together an absolutely mammoth case, but it could also be that Microsoft is watching the time tick away and hoping for something to present itself and if it doesn't then they simply won't bother with an appeal. It is true that them not appealing means Activision could say they didn't do everything to get the deal through and put them in court over it... but that would only get them the 3 billion (while souring things with Microsoft) and considering how long the court case would take it'd actually mean they'd get the 3 billion later then simply waiting for the deal's deadline to be met. As such, not a relevant detail.

[AJ_-_808]

4 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

 

May 24th is the final day Microsoft can make an appeal to the CAT and if Microsoft doesn't put in an appeal within that deadline then things are done. The interesting detail here is Microsoft was supposed to put in an appeal quickly to get the process started sooner, and yet they're now near the end of the deadline and they've yet to submit anything. It could of course mean that Microsoft's army of lawyers are hard at work putting together an absolutely mammoth case...

 

Would these be the same lawyers that improperly submitted information request paperwork to Sony with like a 2 day deadline when it was supposed to be 2 weeks?  If so, they may not understand how deadlines work.

[Z1MZUM]

Well Actishite have shut down IW4X, SM2 and BOiii. I guess plutonium is next. What are these? COD clients minus the hackers and optimized servers that Activisions DEV teams clearly are not skilled enough to code.

 

I don't expect a great deal of people here to be following this with their trophy lust and all, What this means is there is no safe way to play any COD on pc up until I think Blops 4 safely. For anyone interested, if you like having your computer taken over then enjoy playing any of these on Activisions servers.

 

These are fan made clients who have given Activision enough advise on their games loopholes. Blops 3 got a recent patch (Already hacked) and lets face is Activision only did this to avoid being sued. No thanks for your help. Nope, we'll just shut you down.

 

Microsoft might do nothing to improve the situation but it's a risk that people from this particular community are willing to take.

 

I hope people here understand the situation rather then riding it off as me being a nut case. I have invested years in online gaming however I mostly play Japanese games. I play PC and Xbox mostly for COD, better servers,,,,,

 

 

[Rozalia1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-65684986

 

For those unaware this was a previous case where the CMA was the lone regulator to go against Meta, forcing Meta to sell (for 53 million) the company they bought (for 400 million) meaning Meta did nothing but lose money here.

 

Now while they don't deserve it because they're obviously lying and everyone knows it, this is the risk when it comes to accepting divestment of Activision & Blizzard while keeping King. They still spend the full amount to buy the company, but then they'll need to find a buyer for Activision Blizzard, which is easier if they can sell it in smaller parts but I would imagine the CMA wouldn't allow that (though possibly allow Activision and Blizzard to be sold individually).

 

There are then two possible very big problems for Microsoft. The first is the number of gaming companies interested will be low due to the size of the company which means they have no incentive to compete with each other for the buyout and really drive up the cost, meaning like with Meta here they could up selling Activision Blizzard for far less than they paid for it. If they got the same rate as Meta here they'd be paying 60 billion for King essentially, though losing that much money would I think surely be unlikely as at such a rock bottom price you'd think they'd drive it up to at least 20-30 billion. Tencent if disallowed makes it a bit easier on anybody else interested but means Microsoft loses more money. Something to also keep in mind is that if Microsoft is able to sell Activision and Blizzard separately then funnily enough Sony can likely get Blizzard through regulators if they make a bid due to Blizzard's main presence being on PC which Sony has little presence, and agreeing that Blizzard's future games will all be multiplatform is no problem at all, and unlike Microsoft, Sony would likely make that commit instantly and not wait for regulators to start looking into it. That would be a nightmare for Microsoft as they'll have wasted an absolute fortune to in the end strengthen Sony.

 

Another nightmare would be the second possible problem. Google and Amazon, we can't forget, Microsoft's real competition, have a weak presence in gaming and would likely jump at the chance to buy up on the cheap Activision Blizzard. Microsoft on record has in essence stated that they're trying to buy out people out and dominate so they can essentially lock out of gaming the rest of big tech who can compete with them financially. Them selling Activision Blizzard to either of those companies would be letting them in the door which to Microsoft might be even worse than this deal empowering Sony.

 

There is also the option, the best case for Microsoft, of making Activision Blizzard independent and then slapping them with a massive debt (up to 60 billion!). Fully independent by the way as the idea that Microsoft would be able to keep 49% of Activision Blizzard is nonsense, the CMA I think is pretty clear in how they view things that they wouldn't allow that. Anyway, the problem with that is that not only will the company now have a gigantic debt on top of it, but King which was a low cost high return part of the company is now gone also. It ain't good to allow such a thing like this to occur if the company made independent then simply collapses a short time afterwards (and Microsoft would be banned from scooping up the pieces by the way), so I would think the CMA wouldn't allow that to occur. Of course Microsoft could always just make the company independent and not put a debt on them but... that'll mean they paid 69 billion for King.

 

Some might wonder why then, assuming Microsoft is telling the truth on wanting King, they don't just pay the 3 billion fee to Activision and then buy King on its own. To start with Activision likely wouldn't want to sell King on its own as it makes the company far healthier, but now due to this current deal Microsoft needs to wait 10 years before they can even invest a penny in Activision so they're locked out of that.

 

On 21/05/2023 at 0:52 AM, AJ_-_808 said:

Would these be the same lawyers that improperly submitted information request paperwork to Sony with like a 2 day deadline when it was supposed to be 2 weeks?  If so, they may not understand how deadlines work.

 

Same guys, though Microsoft has since added even more to their roster. We're nearly at the final day and still no appeal... something that happened which if telling would be hilarious is their top shill Florian was out and about telling people who were saying the deadline was the 24th of May that they were wrong, it was a date next month instead. He was wrong as with him not being an expert on the CMA even though he talks like he is, that date was for something that sounds similar but is a different matter. If their top shill who straight up gets information from Microsoft made this mistake... could it be that Microsoft's lawyer army has wasted much of the time they had to put forward the appeal thinking they had an extra month? I'd think what with them being so highly paid and there being so many of them that they'd be on the job soon as... but that fool Brad Smith is in charge and not working the army on this this month and only doing it next month would save a little bit of money... I would assume this is not the case, but if they've blundered on this by getting the date wrong then that'll be a new level of incompetence.

 

Though considering what I talked about above, it could be possible that Microsoft is currently also talking to other companies on their interest in buying Activision Blizzard. If they win the appeal with CAT it'll unlikely stop the deal going through entirely, but at that point Microsoft can then state their wish to accept a large divestment and make that case.

 

12 hours ago, Z1MZUM said:

Well Actishite have shut down IW4X, SM2 and BOiii. I guess plutonium is next. What are these? COD clients minus the hackers and optimized servers that Activisions DEV teams clearly are not skilled enough to code.

 

I don't expect a great deal of people here to be following this with their trophy lust and all, What this means is there is no safe way to play any COD on pc up until I think Blops 4 safely. For anyone interested, if you like having your computer taken over then enjoy playing any of these on Activisions servers.

 

These are fan made clients who have given Activision enough advise on their games loopholes. Blops 3 got a recent patch (Already hacked) and lets face is Activision only did this to avoid being sued. No thanks for your help. Nope, we'll just shut you down.

 

Microsoft might do nothing to improve the situation but it's a risk that people from this particular community are willing to take.

 

I hope people here understand the situation rather then riding it off as me being a nut case. I have invested years in online gaming however I mostly play Japanese games. I play PC and Xbox mostly for COD, better servers,,,,,

 

Someone I know with zero interest in this case told me something about that. I don't really have a comment on it as I'm not a CoD player though the gist I take it from what you're saying is that those guys did good work due to them allowing you to play CoD safely and not deal with very nasty hackers? Ultimately most companies would crack down on that stuff and I would rate the chance of Microsoft doing it differently at 0. To begin with Microsoft as we know is hands off and aren't going to be telling Activision to not do that, but even if it was up to them they would still do that.

[TheRetroManiac]

Sony showcase on May 24th would not surprise me if they want to try and mess with Sony last minute probably not a thing but can't help but think they will appeal last minute thinking they might ruin part of the showcase again probably not the case.

Edited May 23, 2023 by TheRetroManiac

[Rozalia1]

40 minutes ago, TheRetroManiac said:

Sony showcase on May 24th would not surprise me if they want to try and mess with Sony last minute probably not a thing but can't help but think they will appeal last minute thinking they might ruin part of the showcase again probably not the case.

 

That fact completely slipped my mind. It is true that Microsoft could be waiting until the last day to try and somehow use it against the showcase. I don't see what it'd do, but possible they have some incompetent scheme in mind yes.

[Z1MZUM]

7 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

Someone I know with zero interest in this case told me something about that. I don't really have a comment on it as I'm not a CoD player though the gist I take it from what you're saying is that those guys did good work due to them allowing you to play CoD safely and not deal with very nasty hackers? Ultimately most companies would crack down on that stuff and I would rate the chance of Microsoft doing it differently at 0. To begin with Microsoft as we know is hands off and aren't going to be telling Activision to not do that, but even if it was up to them they would still do that.

 

The clients existed for stability and hackers, I mean hackers willing to rob you of everything as long as the information was on your pc. We still have plutonium I think but the closure of Xlabs and BOiii made the biggest impact. Activision could not leave this alone and I'm guessing it may have something to do with fan base clients who are not being paid creating an environment that the idiot devs "Hired by Diversity" are incapable of doing. They are willing to sell their old games at full price on Steam for use in lobbies that can potentially destroy you financially. The other theory is that they have made enough cash on steam sales encouraged by these clients. More theories like mw2 2022 is dead, and it is dead. This doesn't affect console as they are PC front ends

 

My recent experience with Microsoft (XBSX era) is that they had opened allot more games that are BC including games you can't buy any more from the store. That's a non profit action from MS. In general the support for the XBSX as generally been positive and they are doing things that Activision would never dream of. Unlike Activision ms/xb seems to be supported by gamers, not greedy shits and their shills who are whitelisted to cheat for their youtube videos to attract new players. The problem with MS is the Library though the PS5 exclusives are pretty hilarious as well.

 

Honestly the depth that Activision can sink to is by far worse then any other business we deal with. I get that none of the companies give a shit about us and that is fine. With Activision it has been years of degradation to the point of desperation. I'm not sure if the non cod players have had this experience and frankly I hope you haven't. I'm just speaking from a view that many may not have or see.

 

[Rozalia1]

4 hours ago, Z1MZUM said:

The clients existed for stability and hackers, I mean hackers willing to rob you of everything as long as the information was on your pc. We still have plutonium I think but the closure of Xlabs and BOiii made the biggest impact. Activision could not leave this alone and I'm guessing it may have something to do with fan base clients who are not being paid creating an environment that the idiot devs "Hired by Diversity" are incapable of doing. They are willing to sell their old games at full price on Steam for use in lobbies that can potentially destroy you financially. The other theory is that they have made enough cash on steam sales encouraged by these clients. More theories like mw2 2022 is dead, and it is dead. This doesn't affect console as they are PC front ends

 

My recent experience with Microsoft (XBSX era) is that they had opened allot more games that are BC including games you can't buy any more from the store. That's a non profit action from MS. In general the support for the XBSX as generally been positive and they are doing things that Activision would never dream of. Unlike Activision ms/xb seems to be supported by gamers, not greedy shits and their shills who are whitelisted to cheat for their youtube videos to attract new players. The problem with MS is the Library though the PS5 exclusives are pretty hilarious as well.

 

Honestly the depth that Activision can sink to is by far worse then any other business we deal with. I get that none of the companies give a shit about us and that is fine. With Activision it has been years of degradation to the point of desperation. I'm not sure if the non cod players have had this experience and frankly I hope you haven't. I'm just speaking from a view that many may not have or see.

 

https://www.ign.com/articles/xbox-backward-compatibility-ends

 

Microsoft is so heavily invested in PR that I'm pretty sure that they wasted the time and money on backwards capability just so their astroturfing agents would have something to use. Now that them having done that is well out there, they've stopped doing it which you tend to never hear about. The emulation thing would be in the same boat, though they had to cut that the moment someone put up a 360 emulator.

 

If a problem you have with Activision is shills then you really shouldn't want Microsoft getting them. Considering how much of a jewel CoD would be to Microsoft they would likely add their shills to Activision's own, and Microsoft has a lot more shills than anybody else.

[Z1MZUM]

18 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

 

https://www.ign.com/articles/xbox-backward-compatibility-ends

 

Microsoft is so heavily invested in PR that I'm pretty sure that they wasted the time and money on backwards capability just so their astroturfing agents would have something to use. Now that them having done that is well out there, they've stopped doing it which you tend to never hear about. The emulation thing would be in the same boat, though they had to cut that the moment someone put up a 360 emulator.

 

If a problem you have with Activision is shills then you really shouldn't want Microsoft getting them. Considering how much of a jewel CoD would be to Microsoft they would likely add their shills to Activision's own, and Microsoft has a lot more shills than anybody else.

 

Not just the shills, they are just the new generation of children uploading videos for easy money, I don't even think they are gamers. I have been dealing and following with Activisions bullshit for at least a decade. Honestly the recent crap is nothing in comparison to the previous underhanded bullshit, I'm just being up to date with the most recent bullshit and assuming that everyone else also is. So I was wrong about that as it seems only the long term Blizzard/Activision online players are.

 

The BC is is not new news but when it did happen allot of people where happy. I think it's a pretty good example of Sony's failure to do similar, I'm sorry I'm not streaming PS3 games and yes the PS5 is powerful enough to emulate,, just.

 

Yes I do want Microsoft taking control, I already have low expectations. I think some people will have to accept that they may be after achievements and not trophies.

 

Also Rozalia1 I do think you upload quality topics and updates on this topic so I am %100 not having a go at you.

[MidnightDragon]

In other news, the sky is blue.

 

 

[Rozalia1]

3 hours ago, Z1MZUM said:

The BC is is not new news but when it did happen allot of people where happy. I think it's a pretty good example of Sony's failure to do similar, I'm sorry I'm not streaming PS3 games and yes the PS5 is powerful enough to emulate,, just.

Also Rozalia1 I do think you upload quality topics and updates on this topic so I am %100 not having a go at you.

 

The PS3 emulation stuff is a lot of work and money spent for no gain. As I said, Microsoft had reason to bother as they're very into PR but Sony doesn't. The issue with the Cell is hard for even more powerful hardware than what the PS5 has to emulate, and even if they got it working there is a good chance it wouldn't stable so people would then complain about it not being stable. 

Assuming consoles don't die off like so called experts have been predicting for the last 20 years you can likely expect backwards compatibility issues with the PS4/5/possibly 6 (everything really including PCs) to be a problem in the future.

 

Thank you. I'm not discounting what you're saying on here, as said, I don't follow the CoD stuff with Activision. I don't doubt what you're saying there, but I simply do not believe that Microsoft would improve things as you'd hope.

 

3 hours ago, MidnightDragon said:

In other news, the sky is blue.

 

Word is they were very last minute about it which is strange.

 

The green guys have been saying that Microsoft can ignore the CMA and just ringfence the UK so they don't even need to appeal... yet they did because it turns out that even Microsoft has to follow the law, and these schemes they're cooking up where Microsoft breaks the law and does what it wants are nonsense.

 

Appeal is going to take at the very least 9 months but can take even longer. However, before then, in June, Microsoft will have to get Activision to agree to an extension or they'll have to scrap the deal then. If Activision does extend it can go either way. On one hand they can have their 3 billion in June and be done with this matter, on the other hand they can extend it while getting several billion extra out Microsoft, which Microsoft itself may not want to offer up considering the low chance of success. Another factor to keep in mind is the marketing deal for CoD is coming up and as long as Activision is involved in this they can't sign a marketing deal with anybody.

[majob]

Apparently some companies are saying MS should just pull out of the UK and do the merger anyway but we'll see what happens

[ElektrickRage]

They want to steal all the COD's and keep them for themselves greedy bastards they are now. Go make games yourselves. They are a shell now of what they used to be. Ever since the Kinect and Xbox 1 (stupid name) they have been going downhill. The Xbox 360 was one of the best consoles ever made. It is sad to see them hungrily turn to corporate greed over and over. They can't fix anything themselves so they think doing this massive buyout and merging their companies will somehow solve the problem?

[DrBloodmoney]

29 minutes ago, ElektrickRage said:

They want to steal all the COD's and keep them for themselves greedy bastards they are now.

Ummmm…. I think you meant “they want to buy all the COD's and keep them for themselves.”

 

I’m not wild about this kind of massive merger either, but I do have to point out:

 

If someone decides to try thier hand at thievery…

…but keeps leaving 69 billion dollars in place of the things they steal…

 

…they’re doing stealing wrong.

[majob]

1 hour ago, ElektrickRage said:

They want to steal all the COD's and keep them for themselves greedy bastards they are now. Go make games yourselves. They are a shell now of what they used to be. Ever since the Kinect and Xbox 1 (stupid name) they have been going downhill. The Xbox 360 was one of the best consoles ever made. It is sad to see them hungrily turn to corporate greed over and over. They can't fix anything themselves so they think doing this massive buyout and merging their companies will somehow solve the problem?

Have you missed the last 30 years of MS as a company? They're not any different now than they were when the Supreme Court slapped them for being a monopoly in 2000.

Edited May 25, 2023 by majob

[Rozalia1]

1 hour ago, majob said:

Apparently some companies are saying MS should just pull out of the UK and do the merger anyway but we'll see what happens

 

Companies? I've certainly seen articles and so called experts, but this should reveal to you which most of these guys are worthless. When to comes to the so called experts again and again we've seen American guys who very well might be experts on how it works in America, but certainly aren't with how it works in the UK and will treat it as if it is like in America hence them coming out with obviously wrong nonsense. Articles meanwhile will cite/go off those so called experts so they'll also spread wrong information.

 

Look at that shill Florian who gets cited so often by Xbox fans real or otherwise. Recently the man was out there saying that Microsoft can waiver the CMA being needed for the deal because of a regulation in Delaware where this was filed. Delaware law trumping law everywhere else apparently. Later in the document of course it later says that actually it'll be subject to whatever the local law is which overrides the nonsense he was coming out with. Nevertheless, many, especially those who are so desperate for Microsoft to get this through, will actually believe such things.

 

This by the way is done purposely. Microsoft doesn't have their agents spreading this fake stuff because Microsoft itself believes the fake stuff, they're doing it in an effort to shift public opinion to their side and to pressure/humiliate the regulator into giving in to them. A key aspect of Microsoft's known playbook on dealing with those who oppose them/are in their way. Just look at how much hate was getting thrown at the CMA when they had the Console concerns, then when the Console concerns were dropped and it looked like the CMA was going to pass the deal for Microsoft suddenly the CMA was now an expert regulator that was carefully considering everything and was going to arrive at the perfect decision. Microsoft's man Florian on the record was talking up the CMA as one of the best regulators out there. Once the deal was blocked the shift was instant to the CMA being complete incompetents who didn't know a thing, even though we straight up have proof due to their transparency of the extensive work and research they did relating to this deal. Currently he is talking up the EU as they passed the deal and what great work they did even though nobody knows of their work as they aren't transparent like the CMA.

 

1 hour ago, ElektrickRage said:

They want to steal all the COD's and keep them for themselves greedy bastards they are now. Go make games yourselves. They are a shell now of what they used to be. Ever since the Kinect and Xbox 1 (stupid name) they have been going downhill. The Xbox 360 was one of the best consoles ever made. It is sad to see them hungrily turn to corporate greed over and over. They can't fix anything themselves so they think doing this massive buyout and merging their companies will somehow solve the problem?

 

When Microsoft entered the Console market the Xbox One was always the final goal they had in mind. Xbox management was allowed to focus on games for the Xbox and 360 to build up the base in preparations for the services push, services being the most important thing for Microsoft. As we know they were overzealous and the Xbox One was a failure, which being what Microsoft got into console making to create, is why they were close to shutting Xbox down. The idea of putting out another console and winning market share with good quality games is not a thought Microsoft ever had, as that to them will always be small time stuff. Gamepass came along however, and convinced Microsoft management that they could bleed a bunch of money for the next X years, destroy the competition who'd be unable to compete, and then have a monopoly going forward in subscriptions/cloud gaming.

 

So you say that Xbox is a shell of what they once were with the 360. Microsoft would think otherwise on that and see Xbox and 360 as small time projects, with One and Series X|S as the good stuff with their services focus. As for fixing things. Getting Activision would add their revenue to Xbox and allow Microsoft to claim that Xbox has never been more successful (revenue doesn't show success, but many fall for it) for a start which buys them more time on getting gamepass off the ground. Of course, allowing Xbox to be more independent and allowed to focus on games rather than services would fix the matter also, but at that point Microsoft would rather scrap the whole thing. If the future doesn't hold a possible monopoly then Microsoft is not interested.

 

13 minutes ago, majob said:

Have you missed the last 30 years of MS as a company? They're not any different now than they were when the Supreme Court slapped them for being a monopoly in 2000.

 

One benefit that has come out of this deal has certainly been how many have had their eyes opened on that. For a good amount of years Microsoft's astroturfing seemed to have worked and many actually believed that they were good boys now and not like before. Ironically Brad Smith who was a big part of that has been the one who has done the most to destroy it, ruining his own work.

[Rozalia1]

@majob got a good example of this "expert" to "journalist" tactic.

 

https://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/status/1661697705914122243

https://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/status/1661736537531482121

 

The 1st tweet contains the accusation. The second, a comment to another shill, supports it by stating that he talked to a big time "reporter" who told him that the CMA guy he is accusing of corruption 'basically made the decision for the CMA'. Can't reveal who that reporter is of course, but believe that this happened.

 

Florian the shill is the most cited "expert" when it comes to supporting the deal. Here he is putting forward that the senior director for mergers at the CMA represented Sony & Google 10 years previously, and so should have been excused and not allowed to make a decision on this deal. Obvious "corruption", which by the way seems to be the current word of the week as they've moved on form "pressure" for now. Note that this is coming from a man who having it out there in court writing to literally be a shill for hire has in his profile, according to him at Microsoft's suggestion, that he formerly worked for both Microsoft & Activision to try and see off any accusations against him of currently working for Microsoft. We should of course not question this shill for who his "former" boss was, but this guy working for someone who Sony/Google hired 10 years ago is corruption.

 

What makes this even worse? The guy he is attacking? He is indeed the senior director for mergers at the CMA... one of two. It was the other senior director who was involved in this case and that guy had nothing to do with it.

 

Anyway, with Florian "unearthing" this great corruption you get shill reporters and influencers going into action by either talking about it themselves or retweeting it.

 

https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/xbox/the-cmas-senior-director-who-blocked-microsofts-xbox-activision-merger-previously-worked-for-a-sony-google-law-firm

https://twitter.com/DeekeTweak/status/1661764093081010177

https://twitter.com/XcloudTimdog/status/1661804114668388365

 

Their shills pushing this and their fans on social media real or otherwise also chatting about it pushes others who aren't on the payroll to then report on it as clearly "people are talking about it". A successful case of this for example was Jim Ryan's 'I don't want a CoD deal, I want to stop your merger" comment which came from a known corrupt joke and yet was pushed as being fact. This particular case meanwhile isn't murky enough, is against an unknown guy instead of someone like Jim Ryan, and easily quickly disproven, and so seems like it won't take off. They will of course try again with something else.

 

However, it gets even better.

 

https://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/status/1650365490693300224?s=20

 

Here is the same shill talking about something going down at the EU. The person Microsoft had present to lobby for them, which is now part of the EU's regulation process by the way, the company involved, Microsoft, can literally have someone present to lobby their case to the regulators who treat them as "experts" commenting on the case for them, is now getting a big job at the EU as chief economist relating to these deals. Being American she actually can't even have the job but no worries as the EU will be changing the rules just so they can have her on. This is no issue at all the shill says, after all it comes after the deal was passed, for the other guy though them having worked for Sony/Google 10 years ago even though they're not even on the case is a sign of guilt. The fact that Microsoft has two other ongoing anti-trust cases which she can certainly try and muddle with in future is of course not even mentioned.

 

Now in case someone thinks that this is all independent stuff and Microsoft isn't involved. It is on record that they use these tactics, though obviously they claim to be changed good boys these days. The fact we can clearly see these tactics in actions shows otherwise. Throughout this case we have also seen Microsoft puppeteer Activision to say many outrageous things they can't say themselves, but Activision can because on a successful deal Activision would stop existing anyway. Microsoft accusing the CMA of such corruption directly would instantly be a bad look and they know it, so they get their agents to put the information out there instead.

 

Again, this is why I simply can't see why someone would be a fan of Xbox today outside having grown up with the 360 and being fond of the brand as a result. Microsoft is such a dirty and dishonest company that they should be rejected on that alone. Good actors don't need to amass massive astroturfing armies to support their brand and attack others, after all a good actor's brand will build up many evangelists that'll in essence do it for the love of the game.

[Z1MZUM]

19 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

Thank you. I'm not discounting what you're saying on here, as said, I don't follow the CoD stuff with Activision. I don't doubt what you're saying there, but I simply do not believe that Microsoft would improve things as you'd hope.

 

 I think there is a divide in the community between online gamers and regular gamers with this topic. I also think most people like me do agree with what you are saying with what to expect from MS, we are clutching at straws however that is better then nothing. We have tunnel vision and don't care about other Activision products which is selfish but that is how we act when you feel like you are backed into a corner.

 

Honestly I do feel at moments that Microsofts intentions are actually decent however Gamepass has gotta go imo and of course taking over IP's with screwing over other consoles is pretty grim.

[Rozalia1]

https://www.catribunal.org.uk/sites/cat/files/2023-05/2023.05.25_Microsoft_Activision_Rule_14_summary_final.pdf

 

Transparency is great as we get to see these documents. Above is a link to the appeal Microsoft is making which I will now cover:

 

Grounds 1 - Microsoft refused to give certain numbers to the CMA so if the CMA's numbers are wrong then they could have enlightened them on the correct ones before the deal got blocked.

Grounds 2 - Microsoft entered into those agreements too late so the CMA couldn't account for them in the report, and stated that even if they had they found them lacking.

Grounds 3 - Activision already has games on the Cloud and beyond that the CMA saw in internal documents that were such plans to put further Activision games on the Cloud eventually. It not being from boss man Kotick himself is the only defence here.

Grounds 4 - Once again downplaying the importance of CoD which is a waste of time. Additionally the idea that Microsoft, who bleeds massive amounts of money with the Xbox and gamepass wouldn't be willing to bleed further money on cloud gaming is laughable.

Grounds 5 - The CMA is not forced to accept behavioural remedies if Microsoft won't accept structural ones. All the companies who Microsoft bribed saying Microsoft are good boys don't have to have their opinions taken into account. As Google warned regulators, this tactic is a common one from Microsoft. Those who have read Microsoft's playbook will recognise it too and will know that the companies cutting these deals with Microsoft are fools as Microsoft will only play nice as long as they have to, and attempt to destroy them too when they are no longer needed.

 

To me all of these grounds look weak, but this ultimately is a summary and Microsoft have an army of lawyers who will attempt to twist any little thing so it ain't impossible they can a successful appeal.

 

 

Saw this and seems very odd. They "considered" lobbying the CAT/CMA directly? Or was it that found out they were unable to? As stated previously, with the EU Microsoft straight had their own personal lobbyist with the regulators the whole time who gets treated as if they were a third party expert. Obvious corruption. The CMA doesn't do the same and distrusts anyone who would have something to gain from Microsoft or outright works for Microsoft.

[Rozalia1]

 

Microsoft's top shill slipped up. While arrogantly posting in one of his astroturfing accounts he posted a screenshot from twitter which showed what his twitter account was, which was the Florian account. The person who noticed this took screenshots, a video, and alerted others of it so there could be no defence. Credit to them. The astroturfing account made no attempt to defend themselves while still unbanned, but they did remove the screenshot. That particular account claimed to be from England and had accounts on twitter and reddit too (started to get scrubbed once exposed), likely an a way to make his accounts appear more legitimate. These accounts go back like 10 years and show a long history of shilling for Microsoft. There were also some questionable posts that some people have called racist, but considering Florian is German and was supporting Brexit through that account, I assume that was part of his "cover". Him smearing Brexiteers as racists I'm sure was just a little bonus for him.

 

Back on his main account Florian at first didn't acknowledge it. Instead he came out with an accusation that Idas, another person of comparable "fame" on this deal who posts at Resetera, was secretly an astroturfer against the deal. Accusing others of something you are guilty of as you're exposed or about to be exposed is a common enough tactic. Later on Xbox Era, a grouping of Microsoft shills who went too hard and fast on their shilling even for Resetera and so had to create their own shill site, came to his defence, smearing the forum that exposed Florian but offering no real actual defences. Once those fellow shills came to his defence he finally responded, stating he had not even heard of the site and he would have no reason to post there.

 

I mentioned Idas and Resetera so I'll explain where they come into this. Idas is a poster over there who does expansive and informative posts regarding this deal and has done since the start. Generally it could be said he is neutral, but I personally am not a fan because he doesn't give pushback to the Xbox crazies infesting that thread and shoot down stuff that I know he could easily do so. Perhaps he is simply too nice and doesn't want conflict, but other users who have had fought back against such things have paid the price because he won't stand up to those people. That brings us to Resetera. They focus all discussion on a specific megathread over there as most places do, and that particular thread is utterly infested with Microsoft shills (considering he is everywhere else, one of them is likely Florian). What they've done over there is anyone who would post against the deal would get ganged up on and baited into some manner of (light) rulebreaking whereupon they'd be mass reported by the shills and if not banned from the site, at least banned from the thread. This tactic is not uncommon on Resetera of course, but it largely happens in the social/politics area over whatever 2 minutes hate they're running at that particular time, not so much to protect a company in the gaming area. Something that helps with the bans is that at least one of Resetera's moderators is a known Microsoft shill and they're the one who moderates that particular thread. As a result people in the past who have attacked Florian and told people not to post him have been banned, even though Florian has been attacking Idas for some time publicly. With this exposure some Xbox people, who are likely real, attacked and laughed at Florian being a pathetic shill, but the shills on there downplayed it and then of course the moderator came in stating that it was "twitter drama" and so should not be spoken of.

 

In conclusion. Florian has been on the internet shilling for Microsoft for at least 10 years, which would make sense as that was around the Xbox One period which saw Microsoft heavily increase their astroturfing efforts in gaming, to the point that it became very much noticeable and got them exposed, though naturally no one in the media ever talks about it these days (they'd instantly be set upon by the astroturfing army and they know it). However, Florian actually worked a bit further back than that for Microsoft so it might be closer to 15 years which again wouldn't be surprising. Microsoft has been in the business of astroturfing for a long time.

 

On a side note. Considering how it is speculated that Microsoft sent an employee to Nokia to at the very least get the company aligned with Microsoft, if not ruin it, which lead to Microsoft buying them out (and then running into the ground). This Florian character worked for Blizzard while still very much with Microsoft. Mike Ybarra, a former Microsoft employee who is now at a top position at Activision and is a guy that has played a big part in Activision's workers hating the company... there is the good possibility that Microsoft is behind all the stuff coming out against Bobby Kotick, fully intending to then pick them up afterwards. Of course, the story goes that Kotick approached them and not the other way around, but that is easily explained as Kotick would eventually talk to Microsoft and even if he didn't, Ybarra would no doubt suggest it.

---

As I've said. Gaming will be a much nicer place if Microsoft goes and takes their astroturfing with them (to be fair, they might keep in place just to attack Sony out of spite, at least for a time). No matter how bad someone talking up PlayStation or Nintendo might be, at least you can trust that they're real. With Microsoft due to their massive usage of astroturfing you start suspecting quickly someone is a shill if they're on the green team. You thankfully don't really get them here though I have been suspicious of those few people who have claimed to me to "have everything" but mysteriously only ever defend Microsoft. I'd rather not have to think like that, but it is the environment that Microsoft has cultivated.

 

The 30th will be a notable day as we'll find out the timetable for Microsoft's appeal. No decision regarding the appeal itself, just stating when they're going to make a decision on it. Some other minor regulators will make their decisions also which likely will pass it for Microsoft as Xbox has little to no marketshare in those countries, and considering how threatening Microsoft has been if you tell them no and the CMA has already in essence killed the deal, why put yourself in bother when you don't need to will likely be their view even if they disagree with the deal.

[Zephrese]

The excessive amount of deflecting, coping, and outright lying coming from both Florian and other Xbots will never not be amusing. lol

 

Either way, the soulless corporate shill prick fucked up really bad. lmao

[TheRetroManiac]

Wow, what an idiot, he messed up real bad, as this makes Microsoft look even worse than they already are. So then 30th of May we get more news, but this thing will be tied up for a while and cost MS lots of money in the process, oh well. Is it not in July that Activision can pull out or renegotiate the terms, pretty sure that was the case. If they do not believe they can win the appeal they may very well kill the deal themselves but if either party pulls out don't they have to pay the other, so I guess it's up in the air.

[majob]

CAT hearing going on now and apparently the judge in this one is giving MS their trial in 60 days instead of the original October date. Rozalia is on top of this better than anyone so I'll let them take over as far as this goes.

Edited May 30, 2023 by majob

[Rozalia1]

CAT hearing.

 

In regards to the date itself Microsoft did better than most would have thought, but it was still not good enough as it is still beyond the date where the extension with Activision ends (July 18th is the extension end date, the trial will be on July 24th and last some days beyond that). With how Microsoft spoke the implication on why they wanted the date they did was because the deal is likely to fail if it is later. It is later. Will Activision extend? Not impossible, but more unlikely then not. Bobby Kotick is as arrogant as Microsoft's executives so he might be all for continuing, but Activision's shareholders might think otherwise. As far as I know they'd have to put it to a vote with them and if they say no then Kotick can't continue even if he wants to.

 

In terms of behaviour the usual showed up in court as it has in past court documents. Microsoft plays the nice guy while Activision plays the bad guy and says what Microsoft doesn't want to say itself. Activision's lawyer did some attacks and then basically acted like this meeting was the court trial itself. To be fair there was a chance they'd be excluded from taking part (left up to just Microsoft), but how much they went into it almost seemed like they hoped they'd somehow settle things here or get some very favourable decision out of the judge. Judge isn't a gamer so will need to look at some things, and the thing Microsoft supporters will most likely latch on to is him saying that there isn't a firm definition on the matter of the Cloud market being its own market, something to that effect. Activision mentioned that as part of their arguments to why the CMA was wrong you see... which I don't see how that can work when the EU, Korea, and some other regulators have treated Cloud gaming as its own market, so how is the CMA irrational for also doing so? Speaking of other easily destroyed nonsense Activision put forward. The CMA states that internal documents from senior leadership at Activision made clear Activision has full intentions of extending to the Cloud. Activision's rebuttal is that it wasn't Kotick, the only man who matters, and that Kotick has said Activision won't get into Cloud and he'll say it again in witness testimony. Kotick of course has no reason at all to lie and the court should accept his statement without any suspicion.

 

Something also that I knew was going to come up as Microsoft/Activision has talked about it publicly already, is the matter of other regulators talking to the CMA. They've made it even more ridiculous however. The angle we've seen already is that the CMA got influenced by the FTC then that is wrong and the CMA should be overruled. However, they got something new. If the EU talked to the CMA and the CMA was NOT influenced to take their position, then that is wrong too and the CMA should be overruled. So if other regulators recommended against/for the deal is irrelevant, Microsoft is correct either way, how nice. The problem of course is regulators talking to each other is normal business and Microsoft has no way to prove a decision was made based off such talk. So why bother? Ammo for their astroturfers? Framing a future defeat because of corrupt regulators? I'm sure they have some silly angle that doesn't help them in this case at all.

 

Something Microsoft also wants is to introduce new witnesses/evidence in the case which... is not supposed to happen during these CAT trials. CMA will I assume object when the time comes but the judge here seems to note that this case is not normal so... Microsoft might get their way on that which wouldn't be very fair for the CMA.

 

Microsoft's appeal document was 400 pages apparently. I suppose they submitted it on the last day because their army of lawyers really put together a large document.

 

In conclusion Microsoft won a pyric victory here. The judge seemed more on their side generally and they were able to hit especially hard with their comments considering the CMA sent someone who apparently is new to the case and not one of their top people. Activision's attack of the CMA taking too long to review things when Microsoft does it quickly was so easy to destroy as Microsoft's massive team has to just deal with 1 case while the CMA has to deal with many all at the same time... but the rebuttal never came. Microsoft's supporters will trumpet this as evidence that Microsoft has it all sealed up, but as I said, as long as the date is after July 18th I wouldn't see that as a win. Failure to renegotiate with Activision on further extending the deal means an instant defeat.

 

Side note. South Korea approved the deal on the grounds of both companies being basically irrelevant in the country. Importantly they defined Cloud gaming as its own market. Microsoft supporters naturally are ignoring that fact.

[Rozalia1]

Activision raised it in the CAT meeting, one of Microsoft stooges in the media ran it as a story, and now the astroturfing has began. 

 

The CMA spent 28 weeks on the console SLC they ended up dismissing and only 4 weeks on the Cloud SLC. The CMA only ever wanted to block and blocking on Cloud was a desperate last ditch effort. Naturally to protect Sony because uh... well, I've yet to see an explanation how Microsoft one moment can be so powerful they'll threaten governments to reign the CMA in, but at the same time make out that Sony apparently can control regulators to damage Microsoft.

 

The actual fact of the matter is the Cloud concern was there from Day 1. It was not something that the CMA suddenly conjured up in the last 4 weeks of the proceedings. It is not the CMA's fault that Microsoft cared so little about the Cloud concerns that they only began making moves on the matter near the end. Microsoft has an army of lawyers and could have easily done, they just didn't because they were arrogant and greedy.

 

Also that Lulu woman at Activision is out of hiding. Is saying that Asia has supported American games by backing the deal (Microsoft/Activision having little to any market share there), but it is the west mucking things up. Bloody hell, a few months ago they were saying that Japan/China were the great enemies constantly sabotaging western games. Now that they passed the deal it is the other way round. If there was a proper actual gaming media they'd be raked over the coals for this duplicity, but of course no one says a word.