Goekie Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 So I 'm guessing you won't be picking up Phantom Pain eh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lporiginalg Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 4. I think that to get into a discussion about the story merits of a series in which one character loses an arm, has the arm of their boss grafted on and that arm TAKES OVER HIS BRAIN (all the while taking itself SUPER SERIOUSLY and moralising about the state of society and existentialism and all sorts of pseudo-serious topics) would insult both of us. Haha this is perfect, or you could take any of the other thousands of rediculous plot points and follow them with the same parenthetical. I'm actually a fan of Metal Gear, but not a rabid fan like most seem to be, and I agree completely with everything BloodMoney has said, and I could add a lot more to it, like Hayter's weak voice acting. I'm looking forward to MGS5, but unlike most blindly loyal fans, completely relieved that guy isn't coming back. Also don't really agree with this academic pont of "just cause you don't like a game doesn't mean it's bad." Actually that's pretty much exactly what it means. Games are not objectively good or bad. And lets be honest, if they were, MGS games would fall on the bad side. It's like a terrible soap opera for nerds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goekie Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I like soap operas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotakibono Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) As said above I'm not trying to force people who already like this franchise not to, I'm simply warning new people away from it as i think it sucks. I don't need to start a war here, but to answer the specific questions you have asked/ raised: First and foremost, get the notion that this is a "war" out of your head - that's ridiculous and overly dramatic. All I want is a proper, civilised discussion on why you've come to regard the Metal Gear series as nothing short of terrible, as well as something that should be avoided by newcomers. You have strong opinions on the matter and I merely want to know the reasoning behind those opinions; such disdain towards Metal Gear is something of a rarity, after all. If everyone puts forward their opinion in a respectful matter - as well as the reasons as to why this is their opinion - then we can have a fantastic conversation on the subject. 1. Wii Fit and Wii Sports, Modern Warfare and Many other games have sold millions too. It doesn't in and of itself make them good. I agree, but I personally think that is point is null and void in this discussion. In fairness, I think that it's common sense sales figures don't really account for each individual's personal tastes. For example, Avatar is the highest grossing film of all-time: would many people consider it the greatest film ever? No. Pushing aside sales figures and viewing anything subjectively on your own merit is always the best course of action. All sales figures do prove is that many people have purchased the game, not that it's something you'd enjoy. Hell, it doesn't even truly determine if every single person who bought the game enjoyed it. To say it carried the PS1 to success is spurious. MGS came out in a phenomenal year for games, and as such is, in my opinion, riding the coat-tails of all the other, better games it got lumped in with. So, did games like, say, The Last of Us or Grand Theft Auto V ride on the curtails of BioShock: Infinite? Or did movies like Forrest Gump ride on the curtails of Pulp Fiction's success in 1994? No, they stood out due to their own unique quality and were a success based on their own merit. Also, no one here claimed that it carried the PS1 to success, but it was definitely a factor in selling units - make no mistake about it. The amount of cut-scenes to gameplay is ridiculous. Even the reviewers who loved MGS4 made mention of this almost unanimously. This amount of non-interaction is fine if that is what the game is about i.e. In TWD or Heavy Rain, but in what markets itself as 'tactical espionage action' its outrageous. Hell, in MGS 1 there are full half hour sections of just looking at two headshots and chatting, so even before graphics were capable of doing big long 'action' cut-scenes they were padding the length of their games Yeah, the cut-scenes in Metal Gear can be long, but that's part of the reason so many people hold it such high esteem. It's a unique experience, and makes Metal Gear distinctly Metal Gear. Overly long cut-scenes may not be your thing, but doesn't mean the game is a pile of shit - it simply means it's not your thing. I think that to get into a discussion about the story merits of a series in which one character loses an arm, has the arm of their boss grafted on and that arm TAKES OVER HIS BRAIN (all the while taking itself SUPER SERIOUSLY and moralising about the state of society and existentialism and all sorts of pseudo-serious topics) would insult both of us. And why would it insult both of us? Yeah, some elements of the game are fantastical - and certain points of the series could've done with serious editing - but as I said already it's really part of what makes Metal Gear... well, Metal Gear. Again, it's a matter of preference: I love what Metal Gear does thematically and you don't - doesn't mean the game's shit or brilliant, we just interpret it differently. All of this would be fine if the gameplay could support it, but it just cant. The AI characters cant see 10 feet in front of them, their alerts can be countered with a cardboard box, the camera angles (in particular in the PS2 era games) cause constant trial and error as you sneak right into guards feet as you cant see where you are headed, the shooting and aiming is a joke etc etc etc. The cardboard box is meant to be comical. Also, bear in mind the PS2 era games are now over a decade old; shooting mechanics, enemy AI and nigh-on everything in games have improved drastically as the years have progressed. It's kind of like criticising Space Invaders for not having the depth of Mass Effect. Edited February 4, 2014 by Gotakibono 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Tooth69 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Metal Gear is amazing!! If you really want to get into the story go in release order then replay them in timeline order. Oh and don't shy away from portable ops, metal gear and metal gear 2, I find them very enjoyable as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBloodmoney Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Gotakibono - it seems that we basically agree on all points ABOUT Metal Gear - the only disagreement is the CONCLUSION - you think those things I mentioned make it good, I think they make it bad... But it matters naught - im not gonna sit and try to convince you to not buy new Metal Gear games, and I'll never waste my money trying to like them again (its not like i havent tried over the years) I will just leave you with this thought - Imagine what interesting stuff we are NOT getting by having Hideo Kojima stuxk on this series all these years - imagine what that odd-ball, very talented dude could do if he was allowed to make new IP instead of being forced back to the same well over and over by Konami and thier golden handcuffs.... (And Forrest Gump is fucking terrible - the movie equivalent of a bunch of assholes laughing at a disabled person - but thats a conversation for another tale of the Shepard ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand dan Glokta Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Hey DrBloodmoney! Don't you ever dare give your opinion on a beloved franchise ever again! If you want to make friends on this site try discussing topics that the community finds less incendiary: like how The Last of Us is the greatest game ever made, or how much anime sucks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotakibono Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Gotakibono - it seems that we basically agree on all points ABOUT Metal Gear - the only disagreement is the CONCLUSION - you think those things I mentioned make it good, I think they make it bad... But it matters naught - im not gonna sit and try to convince you to not buy new Metal Gear games, and I'll never waste my money trying to like them again (its not like i havent tried over the years) I will just leave you with this thought - Imagine what interesting stuff we are NOT getting by having Hideo Kojima stuxk on this series all these years - imagine what that odd-ball, very talented dude could do if he was allowed to make new IP instead of being forced back to the same well over and over by Konami and thier golden handcuffs.... (And Forrest Gump is fucking terrible - the movie equivalent of a bunch of assholes laughing at a disabled person - but thats a conversation for another tale of the Shepard ) Yeah, man, I always hoped Kojima would create new games but he keeps being dragged into creating another Metal Gear game (not that I'm complaining, but a new IP would be nice). Anyway, I respect and understand your opinion completely, Sir, even if I don't agree with it. It's exactly like me with the Final Fantasy series, which is a series that I could never really get in to. I can see why people would adore Final Fantasy or similar games, but it's just not for me. I think we can agree on the fact that Metal Gear is a series that you either adore or dislike, and that it's something that you probably have to try for yourself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBloodmoney Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Yeah, man, I always hoped Kojima would create new games but he keeps being dragged into creating another Metal Gear game (not that I'm complaining, but a new IP would be nice). Anyway, I respect and understand your opinion completely, Sir, even if I don't agree with it. It's exactly like me with the Final Fantasy series, which is a series that I could never really get in to. I can see why people would adore Final Fantasy or similar games, but it's just not for me. I think we can agree on the fact that Metal Gear is a series that you either adore or dislike, and that it's something that you probably have to try for yourself. AMEN brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frisendal Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Yeah, man, I always hoped Kojima would create new games but he keeps being dragged into creating another Metal Gear game (not that I'm complaining, but a new IP would be nice). Anyway, I respect and understand your opinion completely, Sir, even if I don't agree with it. It's exactly like me with the Final Fantasy series, which is a series that I could never really get in to. I can see why people would adore Final Fantasy or similar games, but it's just not for me. I think we can agree on the fact that Metal Gear is a series that you either adore or dislike, and that it's something that you probably have to try for yourself. Kojima not creating new IP's. Hmm... What about Zone of the Enders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goekie Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Kojima not creating new IP's. Hmm... What about Zone of the Enders? ZotE is ancient I wouldn't call it a new IP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frisendal Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 ZotE is ancient I wouldn't call it a new IP The point I was adressing is that Kojima works on other franchises than just MGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goekie Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Yeah about 13 years ago. You were talking about new IPs Besides MGS what has Kojima worked on the past decade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Fishing Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) . Edited August 21, 2014 by Fragtaster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikatiiker Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I have only one thing to say about Metal Gear Solid being or not being a good story. Thes plot and the whole story is based on awesome characters. It makes MGS's a lot better video game than most of the ones made today. You can come up with a wonderful plot and do it all wrong with boring characters. Love the freak circus of bad guys in MGS's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I never played a Metal Gear game. Just watch them on youtube.The games are 90% bad cut scene and 10% bad game, so watching them on youtube will at least cut out the 10% game part. oh no u didnt! lol, fanboys be butthurt. Don't worry, i would too if you were talking about a game i like, but nah... everyone has the right to have and voice their opinions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawazc98 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 MGS 1 for the win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordeckai81 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 First time posting on this site, just wanted to add that personally I am somewhere in the middle, and I am not trying to force my view on anyone, if some of you think that the franchise is the greatest thing that happened to PlayStation then I am honestly happy for you. As a side note I originally played MGS 4 first, bad idea I could not understand more than half of what was happening, but then I went back and started playing them chronologically, I really had fun with MGS3 despite the over the top moments (one of the reasons I don't love the franchise) and I am currently finishing Peace Walker. Still unsure if I'll wait for The Phantom Pain release or keep going and then go back for that game. But I will have to agree on the abuse of cutscenes, I remember getting to the MGS 4 ending at about 2 am and then thinking as the long ending played out "Dear god, make it stop", and then on MGS 3 starting the game, it was: long intro scene, then starting playthrough, take 2 steps...CALL from Major zero, after an overextended talk, back to play. take a few steps...CALL from Major Zero and I started thinking "OMFG". Still, to be clear I still enjoy the franchise despite my personal issues with cutscenes and outlandish elements. But although I enjoy these games. As far as stealth video games I think in my humble opinion Splinter Cell is far superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheIncinerator1 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 MGS is a pretty rare franchise in that creative control (except for Portable Ops and the Ac!ds) has never really left Hideo at all, making it get kind of 'stale' with every entry dude adds to it. Working on something for so long can be a problem with just about any creative work, and I can imagine doing MGS like every time must be no exception to that. I think at this point he's just bored with the series, but at the same time can't really complain since he won't end it or let it go to someone else because he doesn't want anyone ruining his baby. I think Peace Walker (as different as it was) was probably the last title in the series he had at least some semblance of fun making, but with GZ and The Phantom Pain I think it's just him going by the numbers, making it because he has to for the fans type thing, but then again I could be wrong. Like I said in the GZ opinions thread, I'm hoping after this whole thing the series is put to a close already to move on the bigger/better things. We really don't need more MGS titles after this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxleonardo97xX Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 you forgot The Walking Dead, Back to the Future, The Wolf Among Us, Virtues Last Reward and some others - all more story than game. The critical difference is that the stories in those are good, or interesting, or compelling or funny. MGS is just endlessly ret-conning the same ultra right wing nonsense and Michael Bay level crass lunacy again and again and again, and the only way Konami keep people coming back is by having Hideo Kojima disingenuously pretend that each installment is the final one. By the amount of platinums you have, I doubt you play for fun, which MGS series would offer you ...... oh well .. keep trophy hunting, and leave good games for the others 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBloodmoney Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 By the amount of platinums you have, I doubt you play for fun, which MGS series would offer you ...... oh well .. keep trophy hunting, and leave good games for the others Hahahahahahaaaaa Okay dude, whatever Ill head back to Dark Souls 2, cause you know, the souls games being famous for thier easy platinums and quick completion times :-S 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Mayus Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Hahahahahahaaaaa Okay dude, whatever Ill head back to Dark Souls 2, cause you know, the souls games being famous for thier easy platinums and quick completion times :-S Yeah stop playing all those crappy easy plats like 3D Dot Game Heroes, Disgaea 3 and Last of Us. What would you know about good games Also because I can't resist posting this video 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 By the amount of platinums you have, I doubt you play for fun, which MGS series would offer you ...... oh well .. keep trophy hunting, and leave good games for the others It is entirely possible for someone to have a differing opinion and he has already stated why he doesn't enjoy the series. I personally adore the series but I can also easily see how why someone else might not like it. Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxleonardo97xX Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Hahahahahahaaaaa Okay dude, whatever Ill head back to Dark Souls 2, cause you know, the souls games being famous for thier easy platinums and quick completion times :-S Hey hey, which MGS have you played to have such critics on the WHOLE series, by what you said above, you recommend watching one of the best franchise ever on youtube rather than playing it Try the first game, Metal Gear Solid, for the ps1 or ps3 (mind that it doesn't have trophies..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Hey hey, which MGS have you played to have such critics on the WHOLE series, by what you said above, you recommend watching one of the best franchise ever on youtube rather than playing it Try the first game, Metal Gear Solid, for the ps1 or ps3 (mind that it doesn't have trophies..) As someone who has played all the games, if you don't enjoy one of them (aside from the Acid series which is much different from the main series in terms of gameplay) you probably won't enjoy the others. The games are similar enough that you can form an opinion based on one game. That being said, The Phantom Pain does seem to get rid of a few things he doesn't enjoy, like the poor A.I. and super long cut scenes, so maybe he'll enjoy that game. Why does it bother you so much that someone doesn't like a game you enjoy, especially after posting his own valid reasoning for forming his opinion? Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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