Should Shovelware Be Worth Zero Points?

[Sendai-Horatio]

20% Rarity would negate most of Sony's own first party games. Elden Ring wouldn't even count.

[mrmivo]

1 hour ago, coldspectre said:

As soon as trophies are deemed 'shovelware' and are worth '0 points' people will migrate to the websites without these policies.

 

Some might, although the #2 in the world, @ViensDanser, shares the concern with how shovelware impacts the leaderboard, so not everyone who currently may feel forced to buy shovelware to retain their position actually wants them to matter. The individuals who have the strongest interest in nothing changing, and the most to lose if something did change, are those who make money with these "games", not necessarily the people who buy them.

 

If something did change and the "shovelware enjoyers"  migrated, would it actually be different from cheaters migrating to web sites that don't remove them from the leaderboards? You probably don't miss those. And on the other end of the spectrum, there are likely advocates of leaderboards that aren't plagued by shovelware (rarity-based, no stacks, etc) who already have migrated to other web sites for that reason. Are you concerned about them leaving?

 

"Doing nothing" isn't necessarily the best course of action for a site or a community. For example, not removing cheaters makes a site arguably less attractive, so if a site actively does remove cheaters, it tends to be well received because it increases the integrity of the leaderboard, even though Sony does not remove cheaters from the official leaderboard.

[Rally-Vincent---]

48 minutes ago, Ashande said:

If this comes to pass, I hope you enjoy your brand, whatever form it may take, and I had best not see you make a single post complaining about it.

 

The immediate outrage after the word elitist is huge, but suggestions like this stay largely uncontested. It is surreal.

[RDT1]

To add fuel to the flame ban region / platform stacks too that's arguably just as bad (IMO worse) and makes the shovelware way worse

Edited October 25, 2022 by RDT1
typo

[DeepEyes7]

57 minutes ago, Thrillhelm said:

As this forum provides at least one thread about easy URs, despite the small figure it is possible to achieve those with rather minimal effort. This can and will be exploited.

 

 

What happen if "a lot" of people start chasing this easy URs?... Right, they wont be URs anymore....

 

 

57 minutes ago, Thrillhelm said:

You can also create multiple PSN accounts to lower the overall % of a game, which for example happened as a side effect in Breakthrough gamings online bowling game, currently at 40s something %.

 

Man, how many accounts do you need to decrease even by 0.1% a plar rarity...  Even worse on popular games...

[bosstristan]

Just now, mrmivo said:

 

Some might, although the #2 in the world, @ViensDanser, shares the concern with how shovelware impacts the leaderboard, so not everyone who currently may feel forced to buy shovelware to retain their position actually wants them to matter. The individuals who have the strongest interest in nothing changing, and the most to lose if something did change, are those who make money with these "games", not necessarily the people who buy them.

 

If something did change and the "shovelware enjoyers"  migrated, would it actually be different from cheaters migrating to web sites that don't remove them from the leaderboards? You probably don't miss those. And on the other end of the spectrum, there are likely advocates of leaderboards that aren't plagued by shovelware (rarity-based, no stacks, etc) who already have migrated to other web sites for that reason. Are you concerned about them leaving?

 

"Doing nothing" isn't necessarily the best course of action for a site or a community. For example, not removing cheaters makes a site arguably less attractive, so if a site actively does remove cheaters, it tends to be well received because it increases the integrity of the leaderboard, even though Sony does not remove cheaters from the official leaderboard.

Spot on!

Sounds like some people only care about themselves...

There's a vast majority of players, often times those who are not really active here, who are fed up with shovelwares.

 

But it's all about me-me-me, I wanna be top #1, please let me cheat/boost my trophies!!

 

I swear...

[RDT1]

2 minutes ago, DeepEyes7 said:

Man, how many accounts do you need to decrease even by 0.1% a plar rarity...  Even worse on popular games...

I can see this not actually being that hard to achieve as a point.

 

Someone could easily mass create accounts (email+1@hotmail, +2 etc etc) and use the installed game to boot once then close down on repeat, have a group of people doing it and bam in no time you have achieved it. For shovelware or indies a lot of games are sub 1000 on the leaderboard so probably a couple hours to do.

[craig_obviously]

2 minutes ago, bosstristan said:

 

Sounds like some people only care about themselves...

 

 this is the exactly what I get from you...and i am sure I am not alone in that assessment  

[DeepEyes7]

1 minute ago, RDT1 said:

I can see this not actually being that hard to achieve as a point.

 

Someone could easily mass create accounts (email+1@hotmail, +2 etc etc) and use the installed game to boot once then close down on repeat, have a group of people doing it and bam in no time you have achieved it. For shovelware or indies a lot of games are sub 1000 on the leaderboard so probably a couple hours to do.

 

Accounts with 0% counts towards rarity? If that's true thats something that could be changed....

[coldspectre]

6 minutes ago, mrmivo said:

If something did change and the "shovelware enjoyers"  migrated, would it actually be different from cheaters migrating to web sites that don't remove them from the leaderboards? You probably don't miss those.

It's not cheating to make a banana jump 500 times or whatever, please do not use conflation. I don't need to defend the existence of these trophies. I just won't get behind witch hunting and stamping badges of shame onto people. How about we keep PSNP an inclusive place for everyone, no bullying and no trophy shaming. The games are sold by Playstation, complaints should be directed at them and not at each other. 

[RDT1]

Just now, DeepEyes7 said:

 

Accounts with 0% counts towards rarity? If that's true thats something that could be changed....

Even if not most games have a couple of second first trophy pop (even big games) so could pop 1 or two.

[DeepEyes7]

Just now, RDT1 said:

Even if not most games have a couple of second first trophy pop (even big games) so could pop 1 or two.

 

Still won't work on all games, maybe just ezpz games... I already have seen ppl with 1% of all the jumping games so this is already happening...

[Darling Baphomet]

1 minute ago, coldspectre said:

It's not cheating to make a banana jump 500 times or whatever, please do not use conflation. I don't need to defend the existence of these trophies. I just won't get behind witch hunting and stamping badges of shame onto people. How about we keep PSNP an inclusive place for everyone, no bullying and no trophy shaming. The games are sold by Playstation, complaints should be directed at them and not at each other. 

 

Nobody in this thread is witch hunting. You're the one who came in here threatening a mass exodus if trophy spammers were no longer allowed to dominate the leaderboard.

 

That's literally the only thing at stake here: the leaderboard. You can still use the site's features and post on the forum. The only question is whether or not you'll be able to continue to illegitimately compete in the leaderboard. Are you afraid that you won't be included here, or are you afraid that you'll have to actually earn trophies legitimately? The fact that you're threatening mass exodus over a leaderboard that favors actual trophy hunters suggests the latter.

 

It doesn't matter whether the games are sold on Playstation or not. This is a community for trophy hunters, and it must self-regulate if it wishes to maintain any sort of standard of decency in trophy hunting. It's no different than, say, a TF2 server banning someone for using exploits. Not all tactics are fair tactics.

[bosstristan]

Just now, coldspectre said:

It's not cheating to make a banana jump 500 times or whatever, please do not use conflation. I don't need to defend the existence of these trophies. I just won't get behind witch hunting and stamping badges of shame onto people. How about we keep PSNP an inclusive place for everyone, no bullying and no trophy shaming. The games are sold by Playstation, complaints should be directed at them and not at each other. 

Yeah, let's keep it all moral-less and meaningless.

[MarioShroomed]

Clicking a button 5000 times doesnt constitute shovelware.

 

I don't much care for games that have no point but I do believe these bottom tier "games" should be free.

[coldspectre]

1 minute ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

Nobody in this thread is witch hunting. You're the one who came in here threatening a mass exodus

I don't know what you mean by threatening "a mass exodus" I made an obvious statement that people leave websites that create policies that reject them. It was a moot point. 

[mrmivo]

4 minutes ago, coldspectre said:

It's not cheating to make a banana jump 500 times or whatever, please do not use conflation. 

That depends on the perspective. From the perspective of how an activity impacts the leaderboard, getting a shovelware platinum trophy in three minutes isn’t really much different from getting a platinum trophy by cheating. The latter probably requires more effort. Both arguably distort the leaderboard.
 

I was referring to something else, though: One argument offered here was that Sony allows shovelware to be sold and count on the official leaderboard, and because of this the site here should treat them equally. But the same is true for trophies obtained in ways that get people removed from the PSNP leaderboard. These trophies and these people are on Sony’s official leaderboard, but not here. The leaderboard here already diverges from Sony’s leaderboard. 

[TheBusToYoker]

1 hour ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

Nobody in this thread is witch hunting. You're the one who came in here threatening a mass exodus if trophy spammers were no longer allowed to dominate the leaderboard.

 

That's literally the only thing at stake here: the leaderboard. You can still use the site's features and post on the forum. The only question is whether or not you'll be able to continue to illegitimately compete in the leaderboard. Are you afraid that you won't be included here, or are you afraid that you'll have to actually earn trophies legitimately? The fact that you're threatening mass exodus over a leaderboard that favors actual trophy hunters suggests the latter.

 

It doesn't matter whether the games are sold on Playstation or not. This is a community for trophy hunters, and it must self-regulate if it wishes to maintain any sort of standard of decency in trophy hunting. It's no different than, say, a TF2 server banning someone for using exploits. Not all tactics are fair tactics.

 

Now that's a good point.

[Beyondthegrave07]

I'll be honest, you lost me at the whole brand people with an S idea and this seems to be going nowhere except for shitposting and trolling and goin garound in circles. 

 

I think it's ran its course. I'll leave it up for the poll.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Beyondthegrave07