I think FF16s simplicity is what's holding it back

[UlvenFenrir]

I'm almost done with my ng+ playthrough so I think I can speak my mind about ff16 for a bit.

 

I don't think ff16 is a bad game or anything, I also wouldn't call it a bad ff game because what exactly defines what a ff game is? Every new entry tries something different or "new" anyway.

 

With that said, the game isn't great either. Alot of things are holding it back.

 

-While I liked the combat initially it quickly became pretty boring and mindless. A maximum of 6 abilities not including grapple and air step etc. That's not alot of abilities and it definitely doesn't add much in the terms of things you can do with the combat. Missed opportunity to not include a third ability slot for each eikon equipped or just make it so you could have a 4th or 5th eikon. But that still wouldn't save the combat alone in my opinion. I'm sure others probably feel different about it but after having played dmc5 and yes while maybe not fair to compare it to that game, there are still some similarities.

 

-Story is political and pretty generic. I know you've got the personal story with Clive,Joshua,Jill and cid and while I think that Ultima is a pretty cool antagonist it's not enough unfortunately. I dont know what it is with games lately and their antagonists. You meet them in the beginning then you never hear or see them again for another 30 hours then you battle them for a bit and then they go off the radar untill the very end and that's it. There's not enough character development. The ending is okay I guess? Nothing special.

 

-sidequests usually start out simple and generic and I had hoped it would change it up a bit later in the game but it never did. So many fetch quests, and mundane tasks that to me just feels like pure filler and yes it adds to the lore and world building but sidequests are supposed to be fun to do not boring. I will admit there are a few that stood out but out of the dozens or so sidequests 95% of them weren't fun. Even the main story suffered from this before and after huge story moments. Fetch this, do this. Walk here 3 times and talk to these characters telling you to do this and that. Absolute filler and pointless.

 

-Hunts was something I looked forward to now that there weren't gonna be any minigames (disappointing) and boy oh boy what another disappointment. Reskins of the same enemies, with just a few new attack patterns. Feels like an after thought and not much else. Plus they weren't particularly hard or anything. Only died once or twice and that was my own fault, not because they were a challenge. 

 

-equipment and items... I mean it doesn't really matter because the rest of the game wouldn't benefit from it anyway seeing as the combat and everything else is already too easy even on ff mode. 

 

I think the mainstream and simplicity of the game is what is holding it back ultimately. I know they made ff16 the way they did to draw in more players and people who have never played a ff game before but I think it hurt the game in the process.

 

The bosses is obviously the selling point and yeah they're great... most of them but some of them also feel drawn out to the point where I'm just sitting here asking myself when is it over? It's all just for show and not much flavor sadly.

 

I still don't think it's a bad game or a bad ff game, it's just an average experience that feels generic. I had hoped for something more I guess.

[XcaliBird]

I finished the game few days ago, so I'll write my impressions, considering that it's a game about which spears break.

 

As the game started, the first thing that caught my attention was the graphics. It looked great until I realized that performance mode has nothing to do with the name and the game rarely runs at 60fps. In this segment, I expected much more, and as much as everything looks beautiful in many moments, the lack of a stable 60fps is a big minus.

 

The soundtrack is superb, but it has become the standard for FF games and I have nothing to say about it, all praises.

 

And now the gameplay - I don't know how to rate it at all. On the one hand, I have to admit that I like linearity and simplicity, which many people don't like. After, for example, Divinity OS2 and before Baldur's Gate 3, I liked a game without too much complexity, I simply turn it on, play and enjoy. The story kept me playing and I was not fed up with the game until the end. But on the other hand, the side quests are really bad (except for a couple of them). I mostly solved them for character leveling. But even that turned out to be pointless because I have the feeling that leveling is insignificant. OK, there is some difference if I am level 45 and I beat an opponent who is level 20. I will not even mention exploring and crafting because they are practically irrelevant and have no influence on the game. As for the combat, it's not even that bad for me (precisely because something simple suited me at that moment) but what I don't like are the effects. In some moments, there is so much on the screen that I don't know where I am, who I am beating, who is beating me... it means more intense visual chaos. On the other hand, the Eikon fights are superb and I really enjoyed them, as well as the cinematic scenes. One of the more attractive parts of not only FFXVI but games in general, it's like Michael Bay had a hand in it.

 

If I were to rate the game, it would be 69/100. As much as I like the simplicity, I still miss a crumb of depth and at least a minimum of elements that make up FF, and they are absent here. Although the game was OK for me, this cannot be called FF, they tried to take a bit from GOW, DMC and Witcher, and in the end none of those parts were done properly.

[da-Noob123]

Having finished my first run last night I can agree with what you are saying. I enjoyed the main story and it had some good reveals throughout but there was a lot of fluff along the way. They built a great game world but it felt largely empty. Giant open areas with little reason to explore them, chests are basically worthless, and enemies not varied much. 

 

Strategy wasn't much needed for combat and you just basically needed the equipment with the best stats - no equipping specific accessories for certain status immunities or anything like that. You only had some control over Torgal which I used the one ring to auto control him anyways and the rest of your party was just kind of there. The crafting system was largely pointless as well, they might as well have just given you corresponding Eikon sword post boss battle instead of the elemental essence or whatever. 

 

That said I have enjoyed the game so far and am looking forward to the DLC but I can't help but wonder when said DLC takes place given that bittersweet ending.

[RedDevil757]

The combat is why I avoided it. Just not a fan on button mashing

[Laxus]

5 minutes ago, RedDevil757 said:

The combat is why I avoided it. Just not a fan on button mashing

Guess what it is not a button masher. There is The Ring of Timely Strikes which enables auto combo for clive and that is it.

[RedDevil757]

1 minute ago, Laxus-0 said:

Guess what it is not a button masher. There is The Ring of Timely Strikes which enables auto combo for clive and that is it.

I'm sure just like 7 you can do combos and whatever. But for me it's just mindless and boring. It ruined remake for me and is the reason I avoided this game. By looks of things it'll be why I don't play any new games in one of my favourite series's.

[ThatMuttGuy]

4 minutes ago, RedDevil757 said:

I'm sure just like 7 you can do combos and whatever. But for me it's just mindless and boring. It ruined remake for me and is the reason I avoided this game. By looks of things it'll be why I don't play any new games in one of my favourite series's.

 

I can always tell when someone is a true FF fan cause they hate all FF games. 

[RedDevil757]

On 9/14/2023 at 12:40 PM, ThatMuttGuy said:

 

I can always tell when someone is a true FF fan cause they hate all FF games. 

Hate all? I'm a huge fan of the series. I have been since the NES days. The only one's I've not liked are 7remake and 15. I avoided 16 because it's the same combat. I'd hardly call that all FF games.

[Laxus]

1 hour ago, RedDevil757 said:

Hate all? I'm a huge fan of the series. I have been since the NES days. The only one's I've not liked are 7remake and 15. I avoided 16 because it's the same combat. I'd hardly call that all FF games.

The same combat as FF15 or FF7 remake? If you mean combat in a sense of action based then sure yeah, but they definitely do not play the same at all. You already called it a button masher which tells me that you have no idea about the game at all. There is no real formular for what makes Final Fantasy a Final Fantasy game. Be it the setting in which it plays or the combat system.

[SwiftGuyver]

On 9/14/2023 at 9:28 AM, Picek said:

If I were to rate the game, it would be 69/100. 

 

Nice!

[sepheroithisgod]

While I agree with the title, I don't really agree with any of the points you make, with the exception of sidequests. The combat is pretty awesome and the entire point you are limited is to make you want to choose what abilities you want to use in certain encounters. It's essentially the strategy part of the game (although I definitely admit that the lack of difficulty hurts this greatly). The story was quite good, not sure what exactly was generic about it unless I've just missed the dozens of games with similar plots.

 

The real problem is that FF is continuing to try and be as accessible as possible, which is why these games turn out to be easy. As someone who plays 14, I can tell you Yoshi P is all about the casual life when it comes to designing content, which is a major problem in both games. Fans of RPGs like challenges and this game really lacked it even on FF Mode. I still standby elemental absorption and resistances should have been a thing to help make the Eikons you choose have more impact. This would force players to use a wider variety of skills instead of sticking to the same ones.

 

I still think the game is a strong 9/10 as I really enjoyed my time with it and couldn't put it down til I popped that plat, but the base game should have been harder and devs really need to not make games for casuals.

Edited September 15, 2023 by sepheroithisgod

[PostGameBlues]

I've put down the game for this very reason (holding off that NG+ run till they add the DLCs). FF16 is just...too empty and boring for me. I don't particularly think it's a bad game. It's got a lot of things it does right like the voice acting, music, character/environment art, etc. But when I finished this game I really felt nothing. No particular emotion or satisfaction. Well, I was just confused because I didn't know if I liked what I experienced or not. But after thinking about this game for weeks, I can definitely say that it's an FF game that I really don't find fun to play. I frankly felt more connection to FF15 than this game, despite 15's numerous shortcomings. I think for me, the story being primarily about Clive hurt how I connected with the rest of the characters. Jill suffered the most from this in my opinion.

 

It had such a fantastic start but after the Bahamut fight I really started to get this feeling that the story was starting to feel half-baked and phoned in especially Waloed/Ash, and the combat fatigue due to absence of difficulty and meaningful decision-making when it came to Eikon abilities definitely did not help. I just wanted to get the game over with to be honest. But even though my overall experience of this game wasn't good, I don't feel comfortable saying it's a bad game because like I said it got a lot of things right. I guess it just wasn't for me is the bottom line, I'm sure a lot of people love this game and I wish I do too but it is what it is. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by PostGameBlues

[marius_maximus]

I did create a similar post a few weeks ago asking for players opinion. After my first run, I definitely have to say that I’ve loved the game. Is Final Fantasy mode fun? No, it’s not. But I still think it’s a very nice game. I do agree with you on the side quest thing and it still reminds me of FFXIV at certain points, but overall I think it’s an awesome game.

 

It’s definitely the new era for the franchise and it’s far far away from the classic concept of the FF series, but if you look at the bigger picture I think it’s difficult not to admit that Square Enix did a great job with this title.

[RedDevil757]

2 hours ago, Laxus-0 said:

The same combat as FF15 or FF7 remake? If you mean combat in a sense of action based then sure yeah, but they definitely do not play the same at all. You already called it a button masher which tells me that you have no idea about the game at all. There is no real formular for what makes Final Fantasy a Final Fantasy game. Be it the setting in which it plays or the combat system.

They both use an action combat. Which I don't like. It's as button mashing as any fighter. You can argue a fighting game is or isn't a button masher. It's all dependent on skill. But mostly on reaction speed.  Same goes for how final fantasy has gone. I don't care for the combat. I'd play DMC if I wanted combat like that.

 

Heck you could say the old final fantasy games are button mashers if you didn't learn to play and just brute force your way through the games by over leveling.

 

I thought this was an opinions thread. Not a argue who is right or wrong. I gave my opinion on why I didn't like the last two and why I avoided this one. If people don't like that then I cba to argue.

[sepheroithisgod]

5 minutes ago, RedDevil757 said:

They both use an action combat. Which I don't like. It's as button mashing as any fighter. You can argue a fighting game is or isn't a button masher. It's all dependent on skill. But mostly on reaction speed.  Same goes for how final fantasy has gone. I don't care for the combat. I'd play DMC if I wanted combat like that.

 

Heck you could say the old final fantasy games are button mashers if you didn't learn to play and just brute force your way through the games by over leveling.

 

I thought this was an opinions thread. Not a argue who is right or wrong. I gave my opinion on why I didn't like the last two and why I avoided this one. If people don't like that then I cba to argue.

There are opinions, and then there are just facts. It's one thing to say they all fall under the umbrella of action combat and say you don't like it. That's definitely an opinion, but it's another thing to say they are all the same or are button mashers. That's just objectively wrong.

 

I could understand this as legitimate criticism of FF15 because it really was just hold circle for like 100 hours and win. Or warp strikes FTW.

 

It doesn't apply to FF7R as there is no button mashing, you literally slow down time so you can make decisions for casting spells or using abilities. Unless you are sitting there just hitting the attack command, I can't understand how this is button-mashing, and even if that is the case,  that's not exactly playing the game correctly.

 

FF16 is literally DMC combat in the FF universe. It's fair to say you don't like this, and while you could button-mash your way through it due to how easy the game is, you're playing the game wrong if you do this. The same could be said for any DMC game.

 

Nothing wrong with saying you don't like the new direction of the franchise (trust me I would love the next mainline game to be turn-based, I still think FFX has the best battle system of any turn-based RPG), but people will correct you when you say something that is objectively wrong as it can make people who have never played these games get the wrong impression. 

[starcrunch061]

On 9/14/2023 at 3:28 AM, Picek said:

IIf I were to rate the game, it would be 69/100. 

You just couldn't give it that extra 1 point, huh? 😀

[Laxus]

48 minutes ago, RedDevil757 said:

They both use an action combat. Which I don't like. It's as button mashing as any fighter. You can argue a fighting game is or isn't a button masher. It's all dependent on skill. But mostly on reaction speed.  Same goes for how final fantasy has gone. I don't care for the combat. I'd play DMC if I wanted combat like that.

 

Heck you could say the old final fantasy games are button mashers if you didn't learn to play and just brute force your way through the games by over leveling.

 

I thought this was an opinions thread. Not a argue who is right or wrong. I gave my opinion on why I didn't like the last two and why I avoided this one. If people don't like that then I cba to argue.

Lmao, alright dude, i will stop here. The moment you told me that out of all gaming genres, fighting games are "button mashers" makes it very clear that you have no idea at all. Your opinion does not matter at all because your opinion is nonsense. You don't like action based rpg games? That is an opinion. Final Fantasy 16 is a button masher? That is nonsense.

 

I was not trying to argue with you at all. I just pointed out that FF16 is not a button masher. No hard feelings here, dude.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Laxus-0

[Karnacharya]

On 9/15/2023 at 12:05 PM, Laxus-0 said:

Lmao, alright dude, i will stop here. The moment you told me that out of all gaming genres, fighting games are "button mashers" makes it very clear that you have no idea at all. Your opinion does not matter at all because your opinion is nonsense. You don't like action based rpg games? That is an opinion. Final Fantasy 16 is a button masher? That is nonsense.

 

I was not trying to argue with you at all. I just pointed out that FF16 is not a button masher. No hard feelings here, dude.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it's kind of insane to have such strong opinions on games that they have, by their own definition, avoided. FFVII: Remake and FFXVI play extremely differently despite the fact that they're both action games. FFXVI is focused more on shifting between various Eikons and finding exciting new combos to utilize, while FFVII: Remake is all about finding optimal party synergy to make the combat sing.

 

I'd invite anyone who thinks FFVII: Remake is a button-masher to try out the Weiss fight and see how how far they can get with "mindless" gameplay. Ditto for some of the fights in Final Fantasy difficulty in FFXVI (although my knowledge of those is admittedly-second hand, as I have just started my on FF-difficulty playthrough).

[ZenaxPure]

24 minutes ago, Karnacharya said:

I'd invite anyone who thinks FFVII: Remake is a button-masher to try out the Weiss fight and see how how far they can get with "mindless" gameplay. Ditto for some of the fights in Final Fantasy difficulty in FFXVI (although my knowledge of those is admittedly-second hand, as I have just started my on FF-difficulty playthrough).

You don't even need to look at Weiss tbh, just look in the FF7R board of how many people complained about hard mode being... well too hard, or it broke them. Adding in proper resource management by removing item spam and nerfing benches was just too much for a lot of people. Though personally I think it's what really elevated the game into being something special.

 

In the case of FF16 it's easy to see how there is room for player skill (aka it's not "mindless") if you simply look at how many people complain that enemies are too tanky. Cause the reality of the game is that enemies die way too dang fast. Especially on FF mode where you have Odin the entire game. Max level Zantetsuken is too spammable (especially if you're good at parries), and Rift Slip lets you extend yellow damage windows really far. DPS is tied directly to player skill, and in a way FF16 having a heavily simplified control scheme (compared to something like DMC) shines an even brighter spotlight on it since FF16 doesn't really require you to be that dexterous with the controller to do elaborate stuff. If DMC is more like 50/50 theorycrafting vs. execution, FF16 is more like 80/20.

 

Not that I really see that as a bad thing myself, it's not a dedicated action game, it's an action RPG. Really my main complaint with the game is actually the RPG stuff, it's weak. I think it brings down things like side quests because there is no real reward in doing them (side quests in like 90% of games are boring af imo, but people don't care when they're getting useful rewards from them.) The game would be just about perfect if they'd figured out better progression systems. Stat stick weapons/armor have never been engaging and since you're limited to 6 abilities and can refund points at any time you spend most of the game having more ability points than you really need. I still love the game, most fun I've had with an action game since DMC5 came out but I was hoping it'd be a really fantastic Action RPG, since I love RPGs too.