Cheaters, Hiding Trophies, Leaderboards

[Zallera]

I always thought microsoft was supposed to be stricter on banning hackers, I noticed on my friends XBLA friends list some people with a gamer score of 0 and the cheater title. Would be nice if sony did the same thing.

[breathofwater]

i dont know what the best solution is, but i agree that trophy hackers are getting to be a bit much. id like to discourage the idea that getting say 10 platinums in a single day means a hacker however. there are many situations where people pull off big hunts like that. its usually much easier to find guaranteed hacked trophies by finding games you know and seeing if they were earned years before the release date. or trophies earned in an order you know to be impossible. i wasnt aware there is a 3 strikes = banned policy. reading that is comforting, i figured i was fighting a never ending battle against these people (by reporting their hacked games). i dont know much about how they do it. i hope at least it takes them a long time to do :/

Edited May 21, 2015 by breathofwater

[Gage]

I have an even better idea

 

Get flagged - instant ban from leaderboards

Then the issue with that is, what stops people from just flagging people they don't like? If they get flagged and get banned from the LB even if the flag is false, what do you do then?

[PerryToxteth]

i dont know what the best solution is, but i agree that trophy hackers are getting to be a bit much. id like to discourage the idea that getting say 10 platinums in a single day means a hacker however. there are many situations where people pull off big hunts like that. its usually much easier to find guaranteed hacked trophies by finding games you know and seeing if they were earned years before the release date. or trophies earned in an order you know to be impossible. i wasnt aware there is a 3 strikes = banned policy. reading that is comforting, i figured i was fighting a never ending battle against these people (by reporting their hacked games). i dont know much about how they do it. i hope at least it takes them a long time to do :/

Ten plats in a day doesn't automatically mean you are a hacker but It's a red flag. I'm not going to link any profiles to show examples, but go to a game you know the mp is officially axed - old sports games are good for this (bc EA Sports sucks) - and pull up someone's profile who has earned a recent mp trophy. Chances are they will have dozens of plats in a span of a few days, the chronological order of their games will be completely off, and they are brazen about it by picking numerous titles with servers down. I've only turned in hackers who have out of order trophies, and server down trophies.

Also, for some reason, hackers love the Uncharted series, which are the dumbest games to hack bc of the 100 treasures trophies sequence. Hackers must not have the ability to pick the precise time and date they want for hacked trophies bc they all earn the 100 treasure trophy before earning the 10 treasure trophy, 20 treasure trophy, etc. Dumb.

[Dr_Mayus]

Then the issue with that is, what stops people from just flagging people they don't like? If they get flagged and get banned from the LB even if the flag is false, what do you do then?

Well the mods review the flags so you wouldn't get banned unless you actually cheated or it looks like you did. If you didn't actually cheat you can protest the flag and if you are correct the flag is lifted.

[dernop]

Well the mods review the flags so you wouldn't get banned unless you actually cheated or it looks like you did. If you didn't actually cheat you can protest the flag and if you are correct the flag is lifted.

 

plus, if someone is abusing the flag system that much, by flagging people they don't like ten times a day, i'm pretty sure the mods will also do something about the premium-member in question. 

for example by removing the flagging-rights or whatever.

 

to another thing that was discussed here: if you are really able to actually change timestamps, that are already on sonys servers, with a hacked ps3 then this is really bad news indeed! i didn't believe that this would be possible, at all. i mean the timestamp is already on sonys servers, why would they accept another, new one?

 

the only thing i CAN imagine is, that an earlier timestamp overrides a newer one. (like in many IT-related scenarios, when delta-updates or sync'ing is involved)

this could even happen (and be tested) legitimately by having two ps3s. just get a trophy on your first ps3 in any game offline and get the same trophy on the second ps3 (same account of course) 15 minutes or so later. only sync your trophies on the second ps3.

after that, sync the (earlier) trophy from your first ps3. either the timestamp on the first will be updated to the newer date, or the earlier trophy has priority and gets updated on sonys servers.

actually, i would be really interested in how this is handled, to be honest...

Edited May 21, 2015 by dernop

[Gage]

this could even happen (and be tested) legitimately by having two ps3s. just get a trophy on your first ps3 in any game offline and get the same trophy on the second ps3 (same account of course) 15 minutes or so later. only sync your trophies on the second ps3.

after that, sync the (earlier) trophy from your first ps3. either the timestamp on the first will be updated to the newer date, or the earlier trophy has priority and gets updated on sonys servers.

actually, i would be really interested in how this is handled, to be honest...

It takes whatever the earlier timestamps are. I've had that happen with games when I did them on a new PS3 before syncing the list from the server for the game. If you earn a trophy on the new PS3 that had already been earned on the server it will overwrite on your system with whatever the earliest earned date is, and keep that one on the server.

Edited May 21, 2015 by ggamer15

[dernop]

It takes whatever the earlier timestamps are. I've had that happen with games when I did them on a new PS3 before syncing the list from the server for the game. If you earn a trophy on the new PS3 that had already been earned on the server it will overwrite on your system with whatever the earliest earned date is, and keep that one on the server.

i just realized you're the guy from the ps3t (witcher) forum, "hi there"

 

on topic: ok, so at least in this direction (psn > ps3). that doesn't really mean it takes the earlier ones. psn timestamps could always have priority and will always overwrite the ones on your ps3. one would have to test it the other way around

[ihadalifeb4this]

I love how people who hack themselves to the top like that guy not only make it obvious with so many plats, but they hack impossible games like Moto GP 09/10 and Moto GP 10/11.

 

Think about it. The only reason to hack a trophies  is bragging rights, but if you're  hacking you are probably not willing to do any "work". So why would you think that most people  like that would think shit through and invest effort when they hack  trophies? Smart hacker probably uses site like this to copy timestamps  from somebody else.

 

For some reason I think this thread may go astray. Probably down to déjà-vu.

 

To be quite frank Mayus; better hackers don't get caught at all, so I wouldn't worry too much about the top spots

 

I think Al Bundy said it best: "It's only cheating if you get caught."

[Guest]

Think about it. The only reason to hack a trophies  is bragging rights, but if you're  hacking you are probably not willing to do any "work". So why would you think that most people  like that would think shit through and invest effort when they hack  trophies? Smart hacker probably uses site like this to copy timestamps  from somebody else.

 

 

I think Al Bundy said it best: "It's only cheating if you get caught."

Yeah, I hear you.

[DrBloodmoney]

Why not just do what other sites do - if you have any hidden trophies then you are not shown on the leaderboards?

[effdeegee]

"3 strikes; you're out!" would be the best thing to implement, imo.

3 flagged games and you're permanently off of the leaderboards.

[dernop]

Why not just do what other sites do - if you have any hidden trophies then you are not shown on the leaderboards?

this would basically work, but on the other hand this is exactly my problem with the whole "hiding trophies" system and a flaw by sony i think. if i hide my trophies, then they should be exactly that: hidden. from everyone and everything. 

the first thing that came to mind when i saw the blue "H" on my profile was: WTF? this is completely against the whole purpose of this feature! i want to hide stuff from the public, not point even more attention towards that. 

basically like having a huge sign: "dernop is currently surfing porn in incognito mode" on my browser or in my facebook feed

 

funny thing is, i just recently unhid all of my hidden trophies, because i noticed that the general opinion tends towards "hiding trophies is suspicious cheater activity!", while i just hid them because of my completion rate in the first place.

but i thought leaderboard rank (plus not being "suspicious") is worth more than a high completion rate. especially if you hide trophies only for having a high completion rate... that's basically cheating too. because you could just hide all games that are not 100% and have a 100% completion rate, what an achievement (not)

so i just don't care about completion anymore from this point on

[Winkuru]

I just want to say that it would be witch hunt to go after people for simply having lot of hidden trophies. I play lot of games and i have hidden a lot of games from list because many of those games i quickly dropped playing. I also do keep games hidden until i have gotten % that satisfy me. 

 

The amount of trophies hidden so far has almost reached 800 and i would hate if in the future people would start to flag me just because that amount might have reached thousands.

 

That's not fair. 

[DrBloodmoney]

I just want to say that it would be witch hunt to go after people for simply having lot of hidden trophies. I play lot of games and i have hidden a lot of games from list because many of those games i quickly dropped playing. I also do keep games hidden until i have gotten % that satisfy me.

The amount of trophies hidden so far has almost reached 800 and i would hate if in the future people would start to flag me just because that amount might have reached thousands.

That's not fair.

A lot of people care about completion rate - and would argue that you are cheating he system by hiding games. They would not consider a profile to be legit if it has hidden trophies, as they are at worst a hacker, and at best a completion rate cheater. Edited May 21, 2015 by DrBloodmoney

[Winkuru]

Oh wow. It's up to me to decided whether i want to game that i only play a few minutes or just an hour to count or not to count. If someone completionist  leaderboard wouldn't want to accept my profile it would just fine but hiding games from my list doesn't make me a cheater. You can easily check whether person is hiding games or not so why would it be cheating?

 

That's just elitism. 

 

It's fucking stupid to expect people to sweat over every game. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by Winkuru

[dernop]

That's just elitism. 

 

in my opinion trophy hunting by itself, with leaderboards and all, is basically pure elitism, at least by a huge part. and i'm guilty of that myself... who else would care for 'not real' stuff like that? so you can't really complain about that!

[DrBloodmoney]

Oh wow. It's up to me to decided whether i want to game that i only play a few minutes or just an hour to count or not to count. If someone completionist  leaderboard wouldn't want to accept my profile it would just fine but hiding games from my list doesn't make me a cheater. You can easily check whether person is hiding games or not so why would it be cheating?

 

That's just elitism. 

 

It's fucking stupid to expect people to sweat over every game.

Im not saying you should - Im saying that the poeple who do try raise thier completion rate legitimately do have a legitimate beef with people who game the system by hiding trophies.

The only reason i pointed it out is because you said "its not fair" - what im saying is, its equally unfair for legit completionists to be expected to consider a Trophy-Hider to be on the same leaderboards as them.

I don't think that everyone who hides thier trophies is a cheater - but they are throwing thier lot in with a bad crowd - there is no way to distinguish a hacker from a legit trophy hunter who just hid some games they didnt like, so for the sale of clarity i dont hide anything - even if the game is mince, or un-finishable (like Army of Two 2 or Zen Pinball). These games will never be fully complete, and so neither will my profile, but to hide them i would be part of a group that includes hackers, cheaters and other nefarious vagabonds, and i dont want to get down with those folks.

If you are legit, just unhide them - a 100% completion rate with a bunch of hidden trophies is far less respectable than a 70% completion rate with all warts on show

[Winkuru]

Sorry but no. I don't let that kind of peer pressure to get to me. I'm not really competing against anyone so i don't need to follow strict rules like that. My only goal actually is just to be in Finland's top 100 and stay there. I actually would already be there but i don't like the idea that all the games i hated or just left unfinished for reason or another should be lowering the completion percentage. 

 

I have the legitimate way to make a choice and cut games from my list so why should i be considered a cheater just because i'm doing so? I don't see why games i didn't care for at all should count. I have had enough over the years for forcing myself play those shitty games just for the sake of trophies. Thanks to the option of hiding games i don't have to anymore. 

 

I don't want to think twice before putting games to my console just to have "legitimate list" like some people do. If i play a game and i finish it and don't feel like getting more trophies out of it because it's shitty then i keep the game hidden. 

 

Anyways,anyways. What i'm getting at is that i have my way of approaching trophies and others have their way of approaching trophies. Just because you don't like how i do thing doesn't mean that people should labeled me as cheater and  be treated  with suspicion.

 

You can say that you have less respect for me of having distorted the numbers but could as easily mock you guys for raising your trophy levels with utter shit. I can have more respect for people with trophy level 20 than person with trophy level 40 if the 20 level person doesn't have Hannah Montana and every other kids game on their list.

 

So yeah.....you probably know where i want you to shove your opinion

[DrBloodmoney]

Sorry but no. I don't let that kind of peer pressure to get to me. I'm not really competing against anyone so i don't need to follow strict rules like that. My only goal actually is just to be in Finland's top 100 and stay there. I actually would already be there but i don't like the idea that all the games i hated or just left unfinished for reason or another should be lowering the completion percentage. 

 

I have the legitimate way to make a choice and cut games from my list so why should i be considered a cheater just because i'm doing so? I don't see why games i didn't care for at all should count. I have had enough over the years for forcing myself play those shitty games just for the sake of trophies. Thanks to the option of hiding games i don't have to anymore. 

 

I don't want to think twice before putting games to my console just to have "legitimate list" like some people do. If i play a game and i finish it and don't feel like getting more trophies out of it because it's shitty then i keep the game hidden. 

 

Anyways,anyways. What i'm getting at is that i have my way of approaching trophies and others have their way of approaching trophies. Just because you don't like how i do thing doesn't mean that people should labeled me as cheater and  be treated  with suspicion.

 

You can say that you have less respect for me of having distorted the numbers but could as easily mock you guys for raising your trophy levels with utter shit. I can have more respect for people with trophy level 20 than person with trophy level 40 if the 20 level person doesn't have Hannah Montana and every other kids game on their list.

 

So yeah.....you probably know where i want you to shove your opinion

I dont have Hannah Montana on my list.

Id say that neither do you - but how would i know, you would just hide it.

[Winkuru]

Did i say you have it on your list?

 

And by all means do have all the dirty trophy related fantasies about me. Maybe i secretly also have Ice Age and Monopoly on my list. Isn't that an exiting thought.

 

Just don't start flagging me unless i actually cheat.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Winkuru

[damon8r351]

For some reason I think this thread may go astray. Probably down to déjà-vu.

 

Memnoch, you were right. I'll have your 5 dollars tomorrow. :T

[DDrag00n]

If the leaderboard is based on what everyone finds important  such as: no hidden games, no duplicates, no easy games, 100% or it doesn't count. Then nobody would even be on the leaderboard!

 

But back to the original topic
No anti cheatsystem is ever bullet proof. Even if you change the system it would only be a matter of time before they will find another way to cheat and be on the leaderboard. And in the meantime the rules have become so strict that they are hurting people who hunt trophies legitimate. If the rules are so desperate for a change and ofcourse change them but keep in mind to not make them so strict so people can still have fun on this site, and not get the feeling the site is run by the author of mein kampf.

Edited May 21, 2015 by DDrag00n

[Shadiochao]

Instead of pretending someone isn't a hacker anymore because they hid the only trophies that actually got them caught, they should be marked as a cheater for long as they use that account. They've already proven they can't be trusted. Even if they decide not to do it again, there are more than likely other undetected hacks among the rest of their trophies

 

Something like this would do:

As well as a permanent ban from all leaderboards, as one hacked trophy throws the rest of their account into question.

 

The current system is as stupid as hell. There's no reason to go lightly on them. Pointing out exactly which trophies we know are hacked, then letting them back onto the leaderboards just lets them know how to better avoid detection next time.

[alebrego]

P - H - C

Potentially Hazardous Comet 

 

On topic: even with a marker like that, the "ex-cheater" would be on the leaderbord, and there's again a issue.

Edited May 21, 2015 by alebrego