tinman_1954

Metal Gear Solid V

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For those who have played or attempted to play Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain I have a question. In my opinion the MGS franchise has an outstanding story line. One of the best in the industry. The art work is first rate and the game play, for the most part, is fairly good. I have a serious issue with these games though; S Rank time constraints. I intensely dislike being force to rush through a game. It ruined my desire to continue playing the 2 games. Do other people feel the same way about these time constraints? Wouldn't it be better to let the individual decide how they approach and play a game?

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The ranking system along with the mission based structure promotes replay-ability. You're not really being forced to rush through the game, you're just being told that you could do the mission faster and better. Personally I find it fun on a 2nd or 3rd playthrough just to rush as fast as you can.

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Yeah I wasn't really fond of the ranking stuff either. It might also just be because I don't do well with stealth games as I tend to get overly cautious and take things slow, so with the S Rank stuff hanging over my head I know I'm not going to do well. But even then I just found it hard to enjoy the games for several reasons. I love MGS but I barely acknowledge Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain.

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Don't sweat it, play through the game first. You'll get accustomed to the routes and as you progress you can bring all your better equipment through. I actually had a lot of fun doing it after my initial playthrough.

 

In order to plat (if that's what your going for) you'll have to play through the missions a couple of times for all mission objectives anyway. By the time you actually get round to doing the S rank you'll be well versed on enemy placement, comfortable with higher equipment. They definitely don't force you to do it though. They do let you play how you want in my opinion. It's not like they've slapped "S Rank required to progress through the story"

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28 minutes ago, A-Brawl3r said:

The ranking system along with the mission based structure promotes replay-ability. You're not really being forced to rush through the game, you're just being told that you could do the mission faster and better. Personally I find it fun on a 2nd or 3rd playthrough just to rush as fast as you can.

This OP, this.

15 minutes ago, Meacham said:

Don't sweat it, play through the game first. You'll get accustomed to the routes and as you progress you can bring all your better equipment through. I actually had a lot of fun doing it after my initial playthrough.

 

In order to plat (if that's what your going for) you'll have to play through the missions a couple of times for all mission objectives anyway. By the time you actually get round to doing the S rank you'll be well versed on enemy placement, comfortable with higher equipment. They definitely don't force you to do it though. They do let you play how you want in my opinion. It's not like they've slapped "S Rank required to progress through the story"

And this too, this is good.

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When achieving S Rank is made a requirement to obtain trophies and to unlock other missions then one is being forced to rush. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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For trophies sure, but we're a minority and they're optional. I don't remember requiring S rank to unlock any other mission though. It's been a while since I played it.

 

Again, trophies are made in mind of challenging people. They specifically made the game open-ish world to tailor all types of players.

 

Like I stated before though it's not as bad as you think when you're accustomed. You can do an S rank run at any time. Not progression purposes. I thought to progress story you had to do the yellow highlighted side ops.

11 minutes ago, tinman_1954 said:

When achieving S Rank is made a requirement to obtain trophies and to unlock other missions then one is being forced to rush. 

 

 

Edited by Meacham
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If you are a trophy hunter, then the trophy "Elite" requires you to S rank all missions, and time is one of the factors that determines your rank. My suggestion is to play the game at your own pace, once you have finished the game, you can go for S rank. The game is very replayable. Good luck.

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If rushing isn't your playstyle. You can do all the objectives for the mission, turn off reflex mode and you should still get an S rank.

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Trophy hunters are not a minority. Just look at the leader boards. As for being open world; I definitely wouldn't classify these games as being open world. Open world games give the individual a goal, how and when it is achieved is left up to the individuals creativity and ingenuity. They don't bog the individual down with a bunch of constraints or following a fixed path to achieve  a goal or severely limit his options.

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25 minutes ago, tinman_1954 said:

Trophy hunters are not a minority. Just look at the leader boards. As for being open world; I definitely wouldn't classify these games as being open world. Open world games give the individual a goal, how and when it is achieved is left up to the individuals creativity and ingenuity. They don't bog the individual down with a bunch of constraints or following a fixed path to achieve  a goal or severely limit his options.

Trophy hunters are absolutely a minority in the grand scheme of video games, and Metal Gear Solid V is absolutely an open world game.  Whether or not it falls into "your" definition of an open world game is something else.  There are multiple ways to handle every scenario in MGSV be it guns blazing or stealth to a tee.  As far as constraints or fixed paths, I would argue that every "open world" game has some constraints or "fixed paths".   MGS V gives plenty of differing options to approach each and every encounter.  Whether or not it is to you liking is beside the point.

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I must disagree with you on the "guns blazing" approach. This is not a viable option in MGSV. If it was then the developers wouldn't penalize you for such an approach. In fact I don't believe it is possible to beat the game by using this approach. Beating the game is more than getting to the end. It also means obtaining all the trophies in the process. 

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As far as trophy hunting goes. It does play a big part in the "grand scheme of video games."  Haven't seen a new game come out without trophies. In fact, a lot of game companies put the majority of the good trophies ( silver and gold ) into DLCs and make them a requirement to obtain Platinum. Why is that? MONEY! You're not going to tell me that money isn't a big part of the "grand scheme of video games."

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I don't even bother attempting to S-rank any of the missions. When it comes to MGS I just want to enjoy the gameplay and story. Rankings are the last thing on my mind.

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For what it's worth, as someone else who dislikes time constants I didn't find the Phantom Pain bad at all except for a handful of situations. Most missions can be S ranked in less than five minutes and I actually had fun figuring out a way to do it. I totally get that you don't want to rush a Metal Gear though, like you I prefer taking my time with a methodical approach and Metal Gear is the perfect game for that style of play. On that note...

 

There is one other way to earn an S rank in the Phantom Pain, by completing missions while leaving no traces you'll be guaranteed an S rank. You probably know this already but in case you don't, no traces means you can't be spotted, no firing weapons of any kind, you can't use buddies to attack an enemy, no harming humans including via CQC, you can't enter reflex mode, no supply drops and no score restricting items. 

 

That said, there is at least four missions where this won't be possible as you're left with no alternative but to fight back. There may be one more that I can think of where no traces might be impossible but I'm not certain and I don't have my PS3 to test it out with. I won't name the missions because of spoilers but let me know if you need more information. I'd definitely recommend playing it though even if you don't want to go for the platinum, it might not be a great Metal Gear, but it's a great game. 

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Thanks for the info. I have not tried to play Phantom Pain. I was starting with Ground Zeroes which is suppose to lead into Phantom Pain. Wasn't liking it. From what I was getting from different sources, the two games play exactly the same way. Everything is based on time constraints. I'm not a blood and guts type player who throws caution to the wind and just barges in head first. I'm more of a sniper type of player. If you know what I mean. After getting a taste of GZ, I've lost the desire to play either game. Am disappointed. :(               

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22 hours ago, tinman_1954 said:

As far as trophy hunting goes. It does play a big part in the "grand scheme of video games."  Haven't seen a new game come out without trophies. In fact, a lot of game companies put the majority of the good trophies ( silver and gold ) into DLCs and make them a requirement to obtain Platinum. Why is that? MONEY! You're not going to tell me that money isn't a big part of the "grand scheme of video games."

Oh, I get it, you're here to troll.  I didn't pick up on that in you OP but I get it now.  

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What exactly do you mean by "troll"?

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1 hour ago, tinman_1954 said:

Thanks for the info. I have not tried to play Phantom Pain. I was starting with Ground Zeroes which is suppose to lead into Phantom Pain. Wasn't liking it. From what I was getting from different sources, the two games play exactly the same way. Everything is based on time constraints. I'm not a blood and guts type player who throws caution to the wind and just barges in head first. I'm more of a sniper type of player. If you know what I mean. After getting a taste of GZ, I've lost the desire to play either game. Am disappointed. :(               

 

Phantom Pain is a better game than Ground Zeroes hands down.  While there are similarities, there are plenty of differences.  PP feels like a refined GZ with a lot (seriously a ton) of options, weapon choices, story etc added to it.  Anyway, it sounds like you've decided to hate it no matter what, but in case there's anyone else reading:  if there's anything at all you found interesting about GZ, PP is worth a look!

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On 19/05/2017 at 5:36 AM, tinman_1954 said:

As far as trophy hunting goes. It does play a big part in the "grand scheme of video games."  Haven't seen a new game come out without trophies. In fact, a lot of game companies put the majority of the good trophies ( silver and gold ) into DLCs and make them a requirement to obtain Platinum. Why is that? MONEY! You're not going to tell me that money isn't a big part of the "grand scheme of video games."

 

Name one game where dlc is required to platinum? I'm yet to come across that in either PS3 or PS4. Also, if you take a look at the stats for any game of copies sold and % of platinum achievers I think you'll find that trophy hunting is in fact not a big part of gaming. A large chunk of games have less than 5% platinum achievers on psn. 

 

To answer your original point, I found trying to get s rank on my first playthrough of phantom pain to be too much of a constraint so I just enjoyed the missions and went for s rank on playthrough  2. A lot of the missions can be done in a couple of minutes because you can skip parts like finding the intel and go straight to a location if you know where to go, thus saving a lot of time. This however is not a requirement to enjoy the game, just to get the platinum so I suppose the way the time constraints affect your enjoyment depends on what you want to get out of the game. Oh, and the presence of side missions and the ability to wander the entire map and the whole building your base and gear how you want aspect makes it an open world game in my eyes. 

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dmland12 you and FarSideOfSaturn are probably right about PP. Haven't played it so I can't say one way or the other and to hate something you haven't even tried is foolish. I'm no fool. I haven't decided to hate either game. Based on information given by other sources, I was getting a strong impression the two games were carbon copies of each other as far as game play was concerned. IF this be the case then if I don't like one I wont like the other and I don't want to waste time playing something not enjoyed. This has made me hesitant about even attempting PP. I'm not saying either game is bad or good. What is being said is that I intensely dislike time constraint oriented game play. It tends to stifle ingenuity and creativity in game play and this destroys my desire to continue with games that use it. The fact is I will probably attempt PP and if what you two say is true then I will love it, but from what I have seen so far in GZ, I'm not liking it. This is what I'm saying.

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The Phantom Pain, was probably the most disappointing game I have ever played. An open world that feels very scripted and is unrealistic. It's a warzone that does not feel like a warzone. Boring boss fights (if you can even call them that), repetitive missions, terrible ranking system, very poor character development and very little emotional investment. But the emotional investment that you do get is usually good. 

 

That being said, you have no time constraints, really if you're playing through the game, there are very few missions that put time as a factor for clearing objectives, but never in the grande scheme of missions. For S ranking them however, you do need to and it's a shame so much weight is put into clearing missions quickly for an S rank. I've had missions where I was spotted, shot at, spotted again ... but I got an S rank since it was done very quickly. Not really the style MGS is supposed to portray, but alright. 
Getting the platinum is one boring grindfest too. TPP for me is definitely the weakest in the series. 

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7 hours ago, tinman_1954 said:

Thanks for the info. I have not tried to play Phantom Pain. I was starting with Ground Zeroes which is suppose to lead into Phantom Pain. Wasn't liking it. From what I was getting from different sources, the two games play exactly the same way. Everything is based on time constraints. I'm not a blood and guts type player who throws caution to the wind and just barges in head first. I'm more of a sniper type of player. If you know what I mean. After getting a taste of GZ, I've lost the desire to play either game. Am disappointed. :(               

 

Unfortunately I haven't played Ground Zeroes so I can't comment with any experience on the differences between GZ and TTP.  I understand your point about the time constraints surrounding S ranks, unless you want to leave no traces for most missions then time is your biggest factor and that does mean sometimes charging in and fighting your way through is the best way. Like I said, I also like to take my time and put a lot of planning into completing my objective but after 250+ hours of sneaking by the time I decided I want to go for the platinum, it did feel good to let loose and not worry about being spotted. As @FOX said, it's not the MGS way but I found it a nice change, if a little stressful and difficult at times because of the low key, stealthy approach I normally rely on. Ultimately, it became my favourite platinum because I had so much fun with it. 

 

The above only applies if you're going for the platinum though, again as Fox said there's not many time constraints when just playing through the game as normal and they're pretty generous so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. 

 

Overall, I think that TPP disappointed a lot of MGS fans for various reasons. It certainly isn't MGS as we know it, the legendary boss fights are all but gone as are twenty minute cutscenes which are replaced with cassette tapes to listen to whenever you want. The story leaves a lot of questions we still had unanswered and leaves some plot unresolved. There's very little of those classic emotional moments that a lot of MGS players will remember years from now. For what it's worth the one mission/moment that you do get late on in the game, is arguably up there with the best in the entire series.  All of this why exactly why I said it's not a good MGS game, maybe it's because it strays from what we're used to, or maybe we expected too much, for the first time we have a game that non MGS fans might enjoy more than fans that have stuck by the series for decades, but I do think it's a great game to play if you look past the fact it's a Metal Gear and can put aside the expectations you'd normally have from the series. It's completely understandable that a lot of fans won't be able to do that though  and they're left disappointed as a result. 

 

I see from your trophy list that you already have the game? Maybe create an alternate account and play through the first few missions and see if you take to it to preserve your trophy stats (assuming that's something you'd be concerned about). I wouldn't base TTP on the first couple of hours. I think it gets off to a strong start in the prologue and mission 1 before settling down, missions 2 - 4 will give you a broader idea of what to expect from the majority of the game. Whatever you decide, good luck! 

Edited by FarSideOfSaturn
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Not really getting the answers I'm looking for here. Not an articulate speaker (writer) evidently. lol Let me try and clarify things here and rephrase my original question (Topic). Let me start off by saying this; I am fairly new to gaming and even newer to the internet. Have one hell of a learning curve going on here so keep that in mind and try to bare with me. I tend to be analytical by nature. I do more than just play. I study every aspect of a game from development to structure (art work, story line, music, game play flow, etc...) to consumer preference (likes, dislikes, trends, etc...). #1 I play for fun, entertainment and seek laughter. Games that tend to condition or program you into being a puppet or slave (redundant or excessive grinders) or are designed to push frustration levels to the limits or are exercises in anger management are out. Throwing the controller through the TV is not my idea of fun. Get enough of this at work and when shopping or when driving in heavy traffic. I play to get away or escape from this kind of stuff. #2 I am a franchise player who seeks a good story line and all the good qualities in games. Enjoy watching characters and games grow and evolve from conception to maturity, past to present. #3 I am somewhat of a trophy hunter but not a hardcore one. I do have standards. I want trophies (platinum) I can be proud of earning, not ashamed of (My Name Is Mayo). More importantly I use trophy hunting as a kind of a check list or tool to discover parts of games I otherwise would have missed. Before having internet, trophies never meant anything to me, they were useless. Now that I have internet, trophies make sense and have some value. That is why I am replaying all of my old games. I am discovering things and areas I never knew existed. Hopefully all this will give you an idea of where I am coming from and where I'm heading. This is why my game listing is so full of Es and Fs and why I don't want to waste too much time on any one game. A big majority of my games aren't even on my game listing. There is a lot of catching up to do. There are so many games not played yet and more are on the way. I ask provocative type questions in order to learn. Not to incite anger or get abuse. I value your opinions both pro and con. By the way, I do own every game in the MGS franchise. Enough said. Hopefully! lol

What I want to know is how you people feel about the S Rank or time constraint style of game play used in MGSGZ and other games. Do you feel it rushes you through the game? That it inhibits your ability to use ingenuity and creativity to obtain a goal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, tinman_1954 said:

Not really getting the answers I'm looking for here. Not an articulate speaker (writer) evidently. lol Let me try and clarify things here and rephrase my original question (Topic). Let me start off by saying this; I am fairly new to gaming and even newer to the internet. Have one hell of a learning curve going on here so keep that in mind and try to bare with me. I tend to be analytical by nature. I do more than just play. I study every aspect of a game from development to structure (art work, story line, music, game play flow, etc...) to consumer preference (likes, dislikes, trends, etc...). #1 I play for fun, entertainment and seek laughter. Games that tend to condition or program you into being a puppet or slave (redundant or excessive grinders) or are designed to push frustration levels to the limits or are exercises in anger management are out. Throwing the controller through the TV is not my idea of fun. Get enough of this at work and when shopping or when driving in heavy traffic. I play to get away or escape from this kind of stuff. #2 I am a franchise player who seeks a good story line and all the good qualities in games. Enjoy watching characters and games grow and evolve from conception to maturity, past to present. #3 I am somewhat of a trophy hunter but not a hardcore one. I do have standards. I want trophies (platinum) I can be proud of earning, not ashamed of (My Name Is Mayo). More importantly I use trophy hunting as a kind of a check list or tool to discover parts of games I otherwise would have missed. Before having internet, trophies never meant anything to me, they were useless. Now that I have internet, trophies make sense and have some value. That is why I am replaying all of my old games. I am discovering things and areas I never knew existed. Hopefully all this will give you an idea of where I am coming from and where I'm heading. This is why my game listing is so full of Es and Fs and why I don't want to waste too much time on any one game. A big majority of my games aren't even on my game listing. There is a lot of catching up to do. There are so many games not played yet and more are on the way. I ask provocative type questions in order to learn. Not to incite anger or get abuse. I value your opinions both pro and con. By the way, I do own every game in the MGS franchise. Enough said. Hopefully! lol

What I want to know is how you people feel about the S Rank or time constraint style of game play used in MGSGZ and other games. Do you feel it rushes you through the game? That it inhibits your ability to use ingenuity and creativity to obtain a goal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't believe phantom pain rushes you or inhibits creativity. The reason being that you can replay the missions as many times as you like. So you can do a speed run, an all guns blazing, a no trace, whatever you want depending on what takes your fancy. If the time constraints bother you, I would say play it however you want to and don't even worry about it. Then go back through after to mop up any s ranks you missed. It's perfectly possibly to get s rank on many of the missions without even thinking about the time if you are careful and stealthy. 

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